Air Atlanta Icelandic - What's its status now?

[LAVDUMPER]

Yes, I know that the question related to wet-leasing operators like AAI was asked a few weeks ago.

Just curious about how they are doing - is their business increasing or declining like all others? I heard that one of the 767s previously operated for Excel was leaving for an African airline - is that true?

Does this type of business do well in this awful airline environment?

Any AAI pilots out there - how are things for you?


Best of luck to all AAI pilots out there!

[rufino]

Air atlanta is on deep troubles now.
They just lose the two wetleased ac with iberia and another one for saudia. Lots of people has been layed off.the future is very uncertain for this company, right now but i thing they will pick up contracts by the begining of next year.
I thing and wish that they will survive as they have very good guys working there.

Good luck Guys!!! ;)

[411A]

Sad to say....but I told you so in previous messages. Some it would appear, do not believe the VERY big problems that beset this aircarrier....their day has come and gone... :eek:

[Doctor Cruces]

Looks like they're in the process of closing up their MAN office for the winter, but I suspect that is nothing more then the usual winter close down here. Heard they have nothing now til hajj time in Feb. Best of luck to all.

Doc C.

[mutt]

Doc C,

Hadj flights will begin around the 10th Jan.

Mutt.

[Doctor Cruces]

I sit corrected.

Doc C.

[The Guvnor]

...and as for Haj, the word is that BA has underbid everyone in order to secure some cashflow and utilisation of their parked 744s. If true, it will mean very serious trouble for CC.

Dunno how the Nigels will react to the 'flexible' duty times required for these ops ... or the overweight takeoffs... or having to use another carrier's cabin crew... and especially their pax! :eek: :D :eek:

[FREDA]

It´s not as bad as all that. Manchester was always going to shut down over the winter. IB was a blow and there will be a whole lot more competition for the Hajj work this year BUT Air Atlanta´s strength lies in it´s flexibility. Also, BA and others might be trying to undercut established carriers in the wet-lease market but I highly doubt that they have the right corporate mindset to operate a successful Hajj.

Atlanta has a very flexible workforce and fleet arrangements. If there´s very little business they should be able to batten down the hatches, "right-size" without punitive cost and be ready to act when the inevitable upturn comes.

It´s going to be a rough few months for everyone, but Atlanta should have enough work in the pipeline to keep the core of the company intact and ready to grow when times improve.

[Whiskery]

Guv !,

You're not suggesting that Hajj pilots exceed duty limits,operate overweight aircraft and passegers we carry on the Hajj flights are below the socially acceptable status line are you ?

411A - ....ah,forget it, you're too far gone to be bothered with.

I am enjoying the extended break. A bit of gardening during the day and serving beer at the Quokka Alms by night until January comes around and we all re-unite at Rose Village.

It's not the first time Air Atlanta have done it hard and it won't be the last. Great company with many, many years of service left in her yet!

[Donkey Duke]

The Guvnor and 411A love to provoke people,
and the only reason I can see is that they are lonely. Guys, get out at night, meet someone
and enjoy their company. Take them out to a movie, buy them popcorn, sit close but don't wear cologne that is too strong. After striking out more than once, you will realize that people have feelings. So what I am trying to say is: "Don't gloat!" Sure, some airlines might go down, but don't gloat about it and put people down.

Thanks. Donkey Duke :cool: :cool: :cool:

[The Guvnor]

Whiskery - having operated the Nigerian Haj in the late 80s, I'm shocked and horrified that you'd think that I'd be saying such scurrilous things! :D :eek: :D

Donkey - stop making an ass of yourself. :D ;) :D

[mutt]

Guv

You say that you operated the Nigerian Hadj, care to tell us what role you played?

Mutt

[LAVDUMPER]

Questions related to the 767 operation:

How is the 767 operation doing? Where has AAI sourced its 767 pilots - internal upgrades or outside hiring with 767 types? How is your aircraft type determined - i.e. based on experience only?

Any AAI pilots out there who wish to comment about current conditions, etc.?


Cheers

[thegirth]

How about some good news from the totaljobs website...

Pilots
Location: Europe
Boeing 747 Type Rated Pilots and Flight Engineers
Air Crew Executive Limited (ACE) is currently seeking experienced personnel for Air Atlanta Icelandic.
The qualifications required are:
Commander: B747 Classic, type rated. Minimum total time 7,000 hours, 1,000 on type, and 500 hours as a Commander. Current JAA Member State ATPL/I/R.
Co*Pilot: B747 Classic, type rated. Minimum total time 1,500 hours, and 500 hours on type. Current JAA Member State CPL/I/R and ATPL Ground School.
Flight Engineers: B747 Classic, type rated. Minimum total time 1,500 hours, and 500 hours on type. Current JAA Member State F/E licence.
Applicants need to have a European Union work permit.
Please mail, fax or e*mail your CV before 19th November to: Air Crew Executive Limited
E*mail: [email protected] and [email protected]
For more information: mailto:[email protected]

[The Guvnor]

Mutt - I was the 'project manager' in 87/88 when we operated it under Kano Air Transport International (KATI AIR)'s AOC - my own company, Transoceanic, was cargo only.

[Noddy Staltern]

The 'location' is not Europe! ACE are looking for crews to fly the Haj out of Jeddah for 3 months.

[thegirth]

Noddy,

Try www.totaljobs.com (http://www.totaljobs.com) click on Aerospace then search Air Crew and wow, ACE are looking for Europe based crews!

Fancy that!

[ijp]

I was told that they have a contract for 10 747s and training and spooling up for Haj will begin in about 2 weeks.

[mutt]

I noticed a leased B747 in Saudia's colours yesterday, I presume that it was Air Atlanta. So whoever had the rumour that they had lost the Saudia contract may be incorrect.

Mutt.

[Wycombe]

No fear, I'm sure the UK MoD will keep CC in business!

[Noddy Staltern]

thegirth,

I was not doubting your ability to read! Yes, if you go to the totaljobs website there is indeed an advert for ACE for Europe-based crews.

It SAYS Europe because Air Atlanta is a European-based company, and they require European licences. Despite the fact that it SAYS Europe, Air Atlanta are currently only looking for crews to fly the Haj between Jan and Mar 2002. The main base for these flights is Jeddah - they do not have any European bases for the Haj.

Perhaps you would like to contact ACE and confirm the details for yourself? On the other hand perhaps you are just convinced that you are right and do not wish to listen to anyone else. If that is the case I can only hope that I never have to fly with you.

[thegirth]

Whatever!

I might be able to read but do not have the insight to make the conclusions you have come to Noddy. Without your Worldly knowledge one can only take things at face value as you read them. Too bad for us eh?

I'm sure we won't fly together, so relax.

[LAVDUMPER]

When does the Hadj flying begin? Would the 767s be used, or are they still contracted out to Excel for the Winter?


Everyone talks about how crappy the Hadj flying can be - can someone elaborate for me about the "unpleasantries" related to this type of flying? I can only imagine - but I'd appreciate some confirmation...


Cheers

[MEVERTSGB]

FREDA
I am not so sure that BA will be invited to undercut established Hajj carriers. British and US carriers are currently considered somewhat undesirable to carry Muslim pilgrims (for obvious reasons)! As regards AAI, to my knowlegde their entire fleet is heading to JED in January. Good luck to them.


MUTT
For what it’s worth, Hajj flights commence on 23rd Jan, not 10th Jan !!

We are still looking for aircraft to carry some 850 hajj pax per day on 7 hour sectors.
Anybody know of some available aircraft ? Minimum config 300 pax / max ACMI rate of $4,750 per block hour plus crew expenses (hotac and per diem).
:confused:

[MEVERTSGB]

LAVDUMPER

With a name like LAVDUMPER I would have thought you would know the main problem. Muslims use a different type of toilet (stand up - hole on the ground versions !), which is why they tend to have a slight problem with standard aircraft lavs. To make matters worse, their religion does not allow them to use toilet paper. And that's all I will say about that !

Many aircraft are ready for a total refurb after the hajj season.

One of the other problems can be ground handling at JED.
You are promised a 1-2 hour turnround, and it ends up taking 6 hours.
I guess it can’t be easy to match up millions of pilgrims with their aircraft, especially when almost all of them share similar names like Mohammed, Abdullah etc.

[mutt]

Charterguy,

Are you talking about a start date for Air Atlanta or for Hadj flights in particular?

Mutt :)

[The Guvnor]

Charterguy - drop me an email. Addy is in my profile - can offer two/three aircraft in 393Y configuration.

[18-Wheeler]

Well, the good news is that I'm back off to work on Wednesday. Should be there until around the end of March I guess.
Only hassle is, that I'm off to Jeddah ... Ah well, at least it's work. ;)

[mutt]

18-Wheeler,

Glad to hear that you are heading back to work, I'm sure that you will survive Jeddah and Indonesia.

Charterguy, I was pretty sure that I read the that Air India were looking for aircraft for a 35 day contract. Counting backwards from the 5th day of Dhu-Al Hajjah brought me back to the 10th. Anyway, our 1st crews are positioning to Asia on the 15th with the 1st flight back on the night of the 18th.


Mutt. :)

[ 16 December 2001: Message edited by: mutt ]

[moodymoosey]

Firstly I think you will find that CC own part or all of ACE.

Secondly, majority of crew are on contract, agency etc and a/c are paid for. Very flexible operation and I have seen things change 180deg every 40mins. There is always another contract coming up and there will always be room for CC in the WORLD market as they can operate cheaper than carriers can operate themselves (apart from union probs).

[18-Wheeler]

Totally agree, Moodsy.
I very confident that we're going to do a booming trade in the next year or three at least.

[Patroni]

Hi folks,

just a note concerning the two Air Atlanta 767's TF-ATO amd TF-ATR: They both came to LUX for maintenance in November, wearing full Excel Airways colors. The titles were stripped off in LUX so that they oviously don't fly for Excel anymore in the winter.

One of the 767s left shortly afterwards (I think TF-ATR), but TF-ATO is still sitting on the Cargolux apron in LUX, with some kind of "tents" built around the engine pylons.

Best regards,

Tom

[David Hurst]

TF-ATO has a pylon problem which should be sorted before Christmas. The 767s are or will be in Africa for the winter, though I heard talk of one in South America, but they will be back in UK for the summer. Since European bought some ex-BA 747s I doubt that Atlanta's 747s will get much further into UK than Manston this summer.
I also hear that some Swedish outfit is currently offering 747s at ridiculous rates.