William Hague Flies the Flag (US)

[Unwell_Raptor]

I noticed on tonight's news that William Hague is campaigning in an A109 on the N register (N133H).

Not a very British thing to do, is it?

[Prince Of Darkness]

No, but his fixed-wing transportation is a BAe 146 of Flightline!

[Waveman]

I'm told Tony Blair was in a Titan 737 at Aberdeen today. The journos are supposedly paying £5k a seat!

[Bailed Out]

Well at least if he's in an "N" he knows how to get about uninhibited by b*llsh*t, or am I wrong?

[Yak Hunt]

I think it was probably chartered for him and he wont know the difference.
At least he dosen't steal Her Majestys aircraft, still if he ( The right honourable and worshipful and masterful one, honest Tone ) gets in next time we will no doubt be stumping up for an ego trip better than Air Force One. Or is that for when he's president of Europe!!

[This message has been edited by Yak Hunt (edited 15 May 2001).]

[FlyboyUK]

Saw the said Mr Hague arrive in Cardiff yesterday, just as we were taxiing out. He was in a 146 emblazoned with "Conservatives - time for change" logo and a big torch picture on the tail! Guess they'd have to put another 5p on petrol to pay for it if they had a chance of winning.

[Evanelpus]

Prince of Darkness

Did you say the 146 was from Flightline...my names Brendan O'Brien and............

Only joking

[Mariner9]

I got stuck behind his campaign bus on that awful road to EGFF. Swine...delaying my flight!!! However I'd happily vote for any party who commit to a direct link from the M4...even Plaid Cymru!

[Spoonbill]

;) It was an Alan Mann A109, who was in company with one of JCB's SK76s, along with GBDWO, (another SK76) and the FLT BA46, all of whom were swanning around the Norwich area earlier in the day.
Anyone old enough to remember the last election may also recall that the Conservative Party were also ferried by these companies then, in addition to the Bristow (Sorry Air Hanson) BE20.
It has been "alleged", that Flightline also have a connection to the inner workings of the above, (as well as Brendan O'Brians' flying jacket).
;) ;) ;)

[Foxxy]

The 109 belongs to some minister or pajama bandit from the commons, and he gives it to Hague to swan around in for election purposes, however i understand that last time, TESCO's paid for the flying which in my book accounts to PUBLIC TRANSPORT, which is illegal in N reg unless an ACMI, which it isnt?

It really jacks me off that we spend hours of onerous time and money with the CAA in order to get a JAR OPS 1, for a geek like him to flout the law in public, I know it was probably organised by some desk bound looney in his HQ, but i really do hope some media / press company picks up on it and delves deeper.

All heli operators in the UK that operate for charter have had a rough time lately due to foot and mouth, and we need as much work as we can get in order to keep people employed.

Rant over, for now!

[EGTE]

ATR.42 G-BUPS was at Exeter over the weekend having Liberal Democrat titles applied to the tail and the port forward fuselage.

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It's hard to soar with the Eagles when you work with Turkeys!

[Tigereye]

What chance has Willie got to become the PM? http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/aircraft/pigSflymed.gif [img]

[This message has been edited by Tigereye (edited 15 May 2001).]

[Mad Mitch]

Thought I saw Kennedy from the LDs on the TV over the weekend flying in the Kingair of Manhattan with Trevor Jones at the controls.

[Daifly]

Yep, you did.

Trevor's flying them throughout the campaign.

Isn't he a lucky chap...?

And don't you love the way all politicians look relaxed when being filmed being relaxed!? Tie slightly loosened, top button undone. And no chance whatsoever...

[M14P]

It's certainly a strange old world out there; similarly, Prince Charles frequently uses PrivatAir despite the existance of a UK based/registered fully JAR-Ops 1 Compliant AOC holding Airbus operator (see http://www.twinjet.co.uk). I can't think of a better way of keeping a bit of income flow washing around Blighty than that (it's V2500 powered so the engines are part-RR too.)

[Daifly]

I think you'll find (alledgedly of course!) that the 757's owner lends him the aircraft for nothing.

The ultimate owner is a Greek shipping chappie - Latsis.

I'd fly on anything foreign if I didn't have to pay!

[Foxxy]

So i take it no one really gives a to$$, about the Blue parties actions of using N Reg aircraft for obvious PT work - bottom line is its all paid for by donors of sort?

Still its all we should expect really!

[Spoonbill]

http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/confused.gif Foxxy, excuse my ignorance on such matters, but as the helicopter in question was operated by a legitimate UK AOC holder, (Alan Mann Helicopters), surely it doesnt matter what the country of registration of the aircraft is.
Regardless of who coughed up the operating costs, it's still a charter - just as the Flightline BA46 was.
There are a number of UK charter operators whose aircraft carry flags of convenience, and they all provide UK crews, airports and the government with an income. http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/confused.gif

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It wasn't me.

[M14P]

Daifly

Whilst this may 'allegedly' be true don't you think that it's a bit of a shame that party leaders, royalty and the suchlike don't take more of an interest where their money is going? (That's assuming they're paying for it, of course)

Maybe it tells you something of the hassle factor of operating an aircraft on the G-reg in this sort of operation.

[Foxxy]

Spoonbill,

Sorry mate but you cannot operate N reg on UK AOC.

AM's AOC has the 109 on it along with Squirrels and B206 - but you cannot operate an N reg on a UK certificate for Public transport work.

[The Guvnor]

Foxxy - of course you can operate N registered aircraft on a British AOC. What do you think Atlas Air have been doing with their 747s leased to BA; and Tradewinds etc with various aircraft leased to UK charter operators?

Really ought to get your facts straight, old chap!

Still, I agree that in the case of the Yanks, their aircraft should be banned from the EU until they allow full wet leases over there.

[boris]

There have been several cases of N reg aircraft operated on a British AOC to British company SOPs.

The procedure was via an exemption granted by the CAA. Crews were issued US licenses on the back of CAA qualifications with a restriction to registration and area of operation which did not, of course, include the US.

The reason was usually one of expediency and was temporary in nature until the necessary paperwork was in place.

[Foxxy]

Yes i am well aware of Tri-Air with the Falcon, as an exception and the commercials like Atlas etc that lease a/c to British AOC operators, and having been involved with leasing commercial freigters into the UK on N reg am fairly up to speed on the regs, but i do feel the point of the thread has been lost completly.

Hague uses a private A109 on N Reg that is not available for any other 3rd party use and the aircraft is paid for by donor = public transport

Commercial aircraft leasing is one thing, and operating a privately owned N reg a/c for hire and reward is completly different.

And it makes no odds whose driving it or which hangar it lives in.

[The Guvnor]

Foxxy - are you 100% sure that no one else can use it? I thought it had already been agreed that it is on Alan Mann's AOC - and therefore is available for PT work.

[Foxxy]

No its not already been agreed that the N reg 109 is on their AOC, the "109 type" is on the AOC not the N reg a/c. Big Difference!

Believe me, if it was a case of just having an aoc with the 109 type on it, then we would have been operating them for years instead of the hideous cost of putting it on the G reg, which only Castle air is any good at.

[flugpants]

Report it to the CAA as a fifth freedom operation for which the appropriate non-objections have not been sought or satisfied. That will soon tell you if the a/c is allowed to operate here.

[Tigereye]

Hague flies the American flag because that's where he's moving to on the 8 of June http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/mica/MiscDancfrog.gif

[steven atherton]

surely a n reg aircraft can only be opperated by a us company for part 135 opps

a uk citizen can not own a n reg aircraft it has to be through a us trust .

if you opperate a company in the uk [uk limited liability co ] how can you own or lease a us reg aircraft to put on your aoc?

[Cyclic Hotline]

The aircraft in question is owned by a US corporation.:

N133H
Aircraft Serial Number : 7609
Aircraft Manufacturer : AGUSTA SPA
Model : A109C
Aircraft Year :
Owner Name : THAMES AVIATION INC OWNER TRUSTEE
Owner Address : 1209 N ORANGE ST WILMINGTON, DE, 19801-1120
Registration Date : 21-Nov-1995
Airworthiness Certificate Type : Not Specified

[Bright-Ling]

EGTE, if G-BUPS is going Tory ('tis already partly blue!) then that means that Titan have a great couple of adverts flying around at the moment!

Maybe they should buy a PA28 for the Lib Dems and get the whole set!!!!

[RATBOY]

Not sure what the UK regs are but do know the US ones. First question is state of registry of the aircraft, second question is the bilateral agreement between the state of registry and state where the aircraft will be operated, third question is the operation(s) that will be conducted. Try this: a Canadian registered aircraft, modified by a company in the UK to the extent flight characteristics are changed, chartered by a US company to do aviation work (not pax carriage for hire). Sure gets complicated quick.

In the US there is no reason why a foreign registered aircraft can not conduct a commercial operation (not Part 121 air carrier, maybe not Part 135) if it has obtained a letter of authority from the Department of Transportation. The use of a A109 by somebody for flying a third party around the UK (assume somebody is paying the actual operator/owner/leasee of the aircraft for it) could probably be considered acommercial operation, not public transportation, and probably could be conducted with approval of the UK authorities in accordance with whatever bilateral there is.

I would question the sanity of a politician flying around in a foreign reg aircraft, but that is the politician's problem. How many of the general public know s$#@ from shinola about reg numbers? Except anoreks.