Jetstar A321

[Alex 009]

I heard that Jetstar might be looking at getting 6 A321s. Can anyone shed some light on this?

[Max Q.f]

yeah my mum said similar..apparently at 19 i knew everything too

[numbskull]

No need to be an a%$#hole Max. Its a simple question, you either know something or not.

By all means give your opinion on the rumour but there is no need to be derogatory to the author. Maybe you are aspiring to a QF management position and are just practicing??

[PattyStacker]

Alex - I heard the same and have heard for about 3 years now. If anyone has any goss let us know.

Max qf, i guess the one thing you didn't learn was manners!

[Capt Kremin]

Max, that was totally uncalled for. He asked a simple question, he deserves an apology.

[Bula]

confirmed (apparently)... fuelers just received the how to from the company....

[PattyStacker]

Any idea on a delivery date Bula

[WynSock]

Sure they are not for Sunnies?

[The Kavorka]

Confirmed.......

they should start arriving next year!!!....

another 27 commands advertised today!!

[Bolty McBolt]

Max QF love your work, Keep the faint hearted out....

While we are shooting from the hip .....

Why would a LCC buy a an A321.
Because the A321 has extra "A" type doors these aircraft need to be manned by additional cabin crew, I am sure I will be corrected but I think a A321 needs at least 6 or 7 cabin crew to man it versus the normal 3-4 when you have the standard pax operated over wing escape exits...
From memory employing extra staff per aircraft is never been the operational model for the LCC.

I await the lambasting :ok:

[Wod]

At the end of March they were 320s

Qantas Airways said today it would acquire nine additional Airbus A320 aircraft for use by Jetstar.
The Chief Executive Officer of Qantas, Mr Geoff Dixon, said the new aircraft would be deployed on domestic and short-haul international routes.
"The aircraft will be delivered over a 15-month timeframe from late 2007," he said.

But that was then :)

[PattyStacker]

McBolty,
With JQ now able to operate the 320's with 4 crew as opposed to 5 there will be extra crew surplus so to speak so I guess that could fill the void.

1 crew member per 50 pax on the 320 is 4 crew.
1 crew member per 50 pax on the 321 is 5 crew.

But I could be wrong. I am just a pretty air hostess after all,

[jay700]

Has anyone heard anything more on a possible JQ Gold Coast Base or do they already have one there?

[The Kavorka]

already...bris/gc combined......

perth base opening very soon.......(on bid forms)

[Bolty McBolt]

1 crew member per 50 pax on the 320 is 4 crew.
1 crew member per 50 pax on the 321 is 5 crew.

Thanks Pattystacker, I am all for any comments from pretty hostess's

My point revolves around the type of door. The doors fitted to a A321 need to be operated by CC during an emergency egress unlike the the overwing exits on a A320 which are opened by adjacent pax.
This means min of 6 - 7 CC per A321

Wod
I am with you, I also heard in june the new aircraft will be A320 but happy to be corrected...

Below is a list of all the A321 operators. If you look, non listed are the big profit LCCs with a smattering of holiday charter ailines and the rest are "legacy carriers".

Not sure what Jet * would gain by operating this type...


Aer Lingus, Aero Flight, Aeroflot, Aigle Azur, Air Cairo, Aer Lingus, Air France, Air Ivoire, Air Jamaica, Air Macau, Air Méditerranée, Alitalia, All Nippon Airways (ANA), Asiana Airlines, Austrian Airlines, Blue Wings, BMED, bmi British Midland, British Airways, China Eastern, China Northern, China Southern, CSA Czech Airlines, Dragonair, Egypt Air, Finnair, First Choice Airways, GB Airways, Iberia, KTHY Kibris Türk Hava Yollary, Livingston Energy Flight, LTE International Airways, LTU, Lufthansa, Middle East Airlines (MEA), Monarch Airlines, MyTravel Airways, MyTravel Airways AS, Niki, Nouvelair, Novair, Onur Air, Qatar Airways, Royal Air Maroc (RAM), Royal Jordanian, Scandanavian Airlines (SAS), Sichuan Airlines, Spanair, Spirit Airlines, Swiss International Airways, TACA International Airlines, TAP Air Portugal, THY Turkish Airlines, TransAsia Airways, US Airways, Vietnam Airlines, Volar Airlines

[apacau]

I'm probably stating the obvious but additional capacity combined with cockpit/systems commonality is the only benefit of a Jetstar A321. With additional A320s coming online and no airport in oz at a capacity pinch like we see in Europe and the US, I really can't see how it can be justified, especially if that crew issue is true!

[Short_Circuit]

QF, JQ and the Bus has been a stuff up from the start. Why change directions now.

[QFinsider]

Qantas management bashing square pegs into round holes.........

[Taildragger67]

The LCC model favours one variant of one type - ie. only 738, or 737, or A319, or A320 - all with only ONE config. That way, your other systems are kept very simple - you always know what the cost of operating every single flight is, you don't have to worry about changing crew numbers to operate different a/c, etc. Then you manage your demand by having a dynamic yield management system which changes fares as demand changes.

So logic suggests that a real LCC would not go for even a different variant of what they operate.

So it'd be illogical for JQ to get 321s.

So it's probably a dead-cert, then... :hmm:

[ANstar]

Airline like Southwest (classic & NG) Ryanair (732/738), Jetblue (EMB/A320), Easyjet (A319/737-700 and soon to be 320/321) & Air Berlin (F100, A32x) all deemed to be LCC's have all operated more than one type int heir fleet at the same time.

[sinala1]

With JQ now able to operate the 320's with 4 crew as opposed to 5 there will be extra crew surplus so to speak so I guess that could fill the void.

1 crew member per 50 pax on the 320 is 4 crew.
1 crew member per 50 pax on the 321 is 5 crew.

My point revolves around the type of door. The doors fitted to a A321 need to be operated by CC during an emergency egress unlike the the overwing exits on a A320 which are opened by adjacent pax.
This means min of 6 - 7 CC per A321


There has not been a change to the Pax to Crew ratio in Australia (although some say its imminent :() - CASA has granted an exemption that allows the B738 for QF/VB the A320 for JQ to operate with 4 crew (not sure about the B734?). This exemption applies specifically to the aircraft types mentioned in the exemption - the current pax to crew (1:36) still stands. Bolty is on the right track with reference to the Type A doors - they are not self help doors, and require crew to operate them.

Interesting times ahead if JQ have indeed ordered A321's...

[The Kavorka]

It will be a cabin crew of 5.......

jq sourcing 3 to get asap with another 3 to follow soon after......

believe it or not it's gonna happen......

they will be flying mel-ool to start off with then into south east asia to follow tiger!!

[Enema Bandit's Dad]

I heard they're going to Qantaslink. :hmm:

[Mr Seatback 2]

Re: Cabin crew of 5...

Problem with that logic (in my opinion...however incorrect):

A320 a/c have 4 primary door exits = 4 cabin crew under the dispensation given by CASA for the A320 specifically. Dispensation details stipulate 1:50 ratio PROVIDED 1 FA per main door exit.

A321 has 8 door exits (4 same size as A320 + 4 smaller size doors, similar - but not the same as - A330-200 doors located after overwing).

Using the logic of 5 crew for the A321, you have 2 crew for doors L1/R1, 2 crew for doors L4/R4 (rearmost doors) + 1 FA left over to man 2 pairs of door exits (?)...willing to be corrected, but I would be most interested to see if CASA let this one thru with that kind of ratio. I'm not aware of any major passenger jet aircraft in use in Australia that has any main deck door exit unmanned by FA's.

I know JQ would love nothing more, since the passenger increase over the A320 is only about 40-50 range...but...call me slow, I just don't get how they could get away with 5 crew on an A321 with 8 door exits...in Australia at least.

Then again...stranger things have happened...

[AN Flyer]

A321 has 8 door exits (4 same size as A320 + 4 smaller size doors, similar - but not the same as - A330-200 doors located after overwing).

Not that it changes the argument in any way on the crewing issue and required numbers (I agree with you 100%) but doesnt the 321 have 6 main door exits (same size as A320 - 2 foward, 2 middle and 2 aft?) with an additional 2 doors similar to, but not the same as, the A330 behind the wing? I may be mistaken but I took a 321 two years ago and I believe the second set of doors (where the second galley is) to be full operating (read - aerobridge dockable) doors. I could be wrong.

In any case, it shall be interesting to see what happens. As mentioned before, it really makes no sense to launch the 321 as the added passenger benefit (40 seats?) weighed against the crewing req and complication to the LCC, but stranger things have been known to happen. Given the separation of two cabins on the 321 by a galley, perhaps a domestic StarClass is on the horizon given DJ's premium Y announcement?

All hypothetical, of course.

[Taildragger67]

ANStar,

Ryanair and SW operated Classic 737s only whilst their NGs were being delivered (you can't replace a complete fleet overnight) and in FR's case, all the Classics are now gone; they are all-738 with another hundred or two on order.

Likewise Easy still had some 737s from a previous order still to be delivered, when they ordered their A319s (I recall there were no A320s in their original order, but I may be wrong there) - I seem to recall a comment from the then CEO of EZY along the lines that, as directors of a public company, they would've been criminally liable had they not accepted the deal on offer from Airbus, even though the operational preference was for more 737s... :hmm:

My point is that it is unusual, if you want to mix your routes. If you operate essentially two separate operations, then fine - so you'll never see a VB jungle jet doing YSSY-YMML in place of a VB 738; there might also be some strips where you could get an Emb in, but not a 738.

EZY operate all their bases like separate airlines but can move a/c around if necessary - so whilst they were phasing the 737s out, they put all the incoming 319s into the Geneva base (with HB- rego), then did each base in turn, changing the fleet over pretty rapidly in each case.

You're right, some LCCs do operate different types (or variants of the same type) but it adds to the cost base and so starts to erode the 'LC' bit of 'LCC'.

But like I wrote earlier, the less the logic - the greater the probability :hmm:.

[PattyStacker]

I know that Virgin Express used to operate their 737-300 with only 3 crew and they had 4 main deck doors.
Cabin Chief at the front and the 2 crew down the back. The CC used to be responsible for opening the 2 doors if push came to shove.

Friends at BA used to operate the 757 with 6 crew and the 757 had 8 doors. 2 crew at the front. 1 crew at doors 2L/R. 1 crew and doors 3L/R and 2 crew at doors 4 L/R. Similar to the A321 layout

I guess if they introduce the A321 to JQ the crew will be looking after more than 1 door. Not too hard to arm and disarm 2 doors I guess

Only time will tell I guess

[sinala1]

Different rules and regulations apply in Australia (set out by CASA) than those that UK and European airlines operate under (JAA/CAA etc), so unfortunately you can't really compare them....

[PattyStacker]

But they might follow the guidelines of UK and european carriers.. i.e. 1:50 ratio.

[lowerlobe]

PattyStacker.....But they might follow the guidelines of UK and european carriers.. i.e. 1:50 ratio.

They might also do a lot of things and I know this is a rumour forum but what your saying is just supposition and not factual.

They might put the A380 on the Sydney/Canberra run but I doubt it....

[airbusthreetwenty]

" They might put the A380 on the Sydney/Canberra run but I doubt it...."


I heard that.... also a double daily with the A380 to Moree. All operated by QantasLink

[TMAK]

Heard 3x A321 from Mar-Apr08. They should have 6 C/crew as there are 6 floor level cabin doors (plus 2 non). Understand cap will be around 210. The new A320 (x9) on order are seperate to this.

Taildragger...SW still operates classic 737 now and lots of them.

[apacau]

Reports are used A321s ex North or South America to be operating mainly ex Melbourne (funny that - aren't Tiger based there?).

[DarrenW]

yes and jetstar is based in melbourne too, so what

[Skystar320]

how bad does you sh*t smell?

[carpe_jugulum]

aahh, am I missing something here, but isn't VB an LCC - it has 3 variants of one type and 2 variants of another - still fits into the LCC model......

[carpe_jugulum]

oops wrong thread sorry...

[excellr8]

Sorry if mentioned on previous thread but QF 767's meant to be taking over Classic flying to Perth from Melbourne and back as half of the classic load is jetstar code share. As jetstar are getting more aircraft they will want to do the route themselves and as such no further need for the extra mainline capacity. As I am not an Airbus guy would the A321's suit this route better than the A320?

[MelbPilot85]

I heard the 321s are going to be put on the Cairns-Darwin-Singapore and Perth-Bali-Singapore runs. The StarClass cabin mentioned earlier was also tipped to be on the cards as it would be on a JQ international service...

[aulglarse]

Some posters here believe the A321 will be no good for a LCC. A320's are very hard to come by at the moment. I think AJ and the team have been crunching numbers and seen that these a/c are the answer to a lower cost base vs an A320(Tiger) on smaller, popular routes (ie, <1000nm).

This will put downward pressure on airfares (to remain competitive) and allow more seating availability without increasing airframes on already busy routes.

This may result in releasing A320 frames to increase other markets and/or introduce new ones.

[Wod]

We're about to find out about A321s. Good rumour guys.

http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,22757202-5003402,00.html