Runway saftey

[Pushpak]

Hi all, if someone could please let me know what will be correct official holding position when asked to hold at the holding point...taxiway or short of the runway, is it that no part of the aeroplane should cross the line or the cockpit should be on the line?...please can i have a refrence to it too.
Thanks

[EastCoaster]

"Hold short of the runway" i.e runway officially starts at the runway holding point (or line); therefore no part of the aircraft to cross the line until explicitly cleared to do so.

Most aircrew that I know prefer to be able to see the holding point markings and stopbars anyway, so will always stop a ways back from the actual hold, rather than continue right up to it. For all I know, it may actually be SOP. How are they gonna see a red stopbar turn green if the nose of the aircraft is at the line and the actual hold cannot therefore be seen from the cockpit?

How could you guarantee the integrity of your ILS signals either? That's why the holding points are where they are after all.

Why do you ask, BTW?

[Dream Land]

On my home field each runway only has one holding point, the taxiway terminates at the hold bar, runways such as in HKG have two holding points, following signs and taxiway lines will bring you to the appropriate holding point which is at the hold short line, not 30 meters behind.

[EastCoaster]

Where'd the 30 metres behind come from?

When I said they stop a bit short of the hold, I meant far enough that the markings and stopbar can be seen from the cockpit - not far enough that you could drive a bus through the gap!

I think you'll find that the reason for having the extra holding point markings is for ILS protection: where there's only one holding point short of the runway, you've got a CAT I ILS in operation; where there's another hold further back from the first one, there's a CAT III ILS and thus requires more protection, hence the hold is further back along the taxiway.

[Dream Land]

There was a thread recently that addressed the issue of some airlines in Asia that will always line up about one aircraft length from the hold short line, not aimed at you.

Regards, D.L.

[EastCoaster]

That's alright, my apologies if I seemed a bit short with you. Been a long night sat under a not-fully-functional air con unit. :{

[Pushpak]

Thank you all for responding, i too think on the same lines as East Coaster...to be able to see when the red lights go off and have always stopped short however was recently told by a very senior colleague that it is the cockpit which should be over the stop bar but i just cant find any reference to it.
Regards

[AltFlaps]

In the UK, the answer is in CAP637 http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP637.PDF

On page 25 it states that :


Upon reaching a Taxi Holding Position identifying a taxi
clearance limit, the pilot should stop the aircraft as close as possible to
the Taxi-Hold Position Marking, ensuring that no part of the aircraft
protrudes beyond the marking

[Pushpak]

Thanks a ton altflaps.. that answeres my question.
Cheers

[Dream Land]

EastCoaster, I'm not that thin skinned, no worries. :ok:
D.L.

[call100]

Thank you all for responding, i too think on the same lines as East Coaster...to be able to see when the red lights go off and have always stopped short however was recently told by a very senior colleague that it is the cockpit which should be over the stop bar but i just cant find any reference to it.
Regards

Hope you are going to publicly out him.....What he suggests constitutes a runway incursion....:eek:

[Pushpak]

sure will educate him...
thanks all