BA Baggage rules change again

[Flying Wild]

It would seem that BA have changed their baggage policy again. Last week when I checked, it was (to the USA) 2 items max 23kgs each, with those who had booked prior to Feb able to have up to 32kgs.
Reviewing their website tonight to see what the excess charges are, I was surprised to see that they will accept an item up to 32 kgs for anybody, free of charge, until Nov 2008. After that, it will be a flat £25 for between 23kgs and 32kgs.

https://www.britishairways.com/travel/bagchk/public/en_gb

[bealine]

It's a climb down and may result in direct industrial action across Europe next year unless IATA pulls its finger out and enforces the 23kg upper limit for all airlines operating from/to EC countries.
British Airways was full prepared to enforce the 23kg upper limit for Health and safety reasons, but is understandably reluctant to be the first and only carrier adhering to the HSE recommendations.
Meanwhile, more long-term back injuries, torn ligaments, sprains and strains among the loaders - but, hey, that's okay! We're getting £25 a throw for heavy bags!
............and the nub of it is, those idiots (usually American - and that's not a racist remark, it's because the USA was the country that introduced the 2 pieces at 32kg each baggage allowance, so Americans, being thick, think it's compulsory to have 2 bags at 32kgs each! To those who think packing heavy bags is okay then wonder why their fragile items inside the bag become damaged! (Just try handling a 32kg bag carefully!)

[PAXboy]

usually American - and that's not a racist remarkNo problem, it is not racist because the 'Americans' are not a race, they are a nation.

OK. As you were. :)
Retract Pedant Flap to Zero

[Rainboe]

Bealine- I'm at a loss at your posting. Those 'idiots' (who are incidently your 'customers' who pay your wages) have either been allowed 32 kgs, or they will be hammered for excess baggage. But up to 32 kgs is acceptable. It might be funny to drop the cases -I have seen it being done many times, and also many times watched as the loaders purposely dropped the crew bags too, but it is obscene and dishonest. If you can't handle the baggage, don't do the job, and don't take the pay if you are going to destroy people's possessions intentionally as a way of 'getting back' at them. It seems a particularly spiteful Brit thing to do- maybe because those 2 perishing unions that run aviation in the UK have too much power.

Your posting is a disgrace. You are posting in a forum of your customers, and you can use expletives on them? Shame on you.

[warkman]

Bealine,
the Health and Safety weight limit imposed by the government is 32Kg, not 23Kg.
Ba are just trying to screw over yet again, the hard working people who pay the luggage stealers, sorry, "handlers" wages.

[bealine]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but the maximum weight limit for one person to handle, Europe-wide, is 25 kg if you're handling freight The HSE is still procrastinating over correcting the anomaly, which is resulting in many permanent injuries among those who lift bags.

It's not as simple as "if you can't do the job, get out" - by the time someone realises they can't do the job, they may be permanently injured. As I've said before on this forum, there's a world of difference between lifting your bags in and out of your car twice a year, and manhandling them on your knees in a cramped aircraft hold all day, every day!

In any case, the 2 pieces at 32kg system just encourages people to take loads of stuff they don't really need, contributing greatly to greenhouse gas emissions. People really should be encouraged to take less!

Oh, by the way, I have never handled bags. The majority who do, would not dream of stealing from you - as always, one or two bad apples tarnished their reputation. However, this SLF forum has a nasty habit of insulting airline staff and, as long as this continues, will not serve any positive purpose!

I knew there was a reason why I stopped posting.............

[Final 3 Greens]

However, this SLF forum has a nasty habit of insulting airline staff

Equally, in my experience, some airline people (not you Bealine) have a habit of insulting their pax.

I must say that I am confused by BA presently, as to whether it is a full service airline or not.

As a result, I do not take many BA flights these days.

[radeng]

Slightly off topic, the BA baggage tracing is a farce and a misnomer. All they do is wait for a bag to appear - they have no way of knowing where it is. Mrs radeng had to wait a week for her bag last time she came back from the US. Very different to the general run of American airlines - who normally, are pretty poor on customer service. Plus, some of the employees in baggage tracing are there to deprive a village of its resident idiots - an example being the one who, told that mrs radeng wished to speak to her supervisor, said ' I haven't got a supervisor'. Then told 'Let me speak to your manager' responded with 'I haven't got a manager'. Five different people promised to telephone back and didn't.....so it went on.
As a tracing service, 'hopeless' and 'incompetent' are compliments! Pity they let down the check in staff and cabin crew, who I've always found excellent at BA.

[warkman]

H& S and IATA still say 32KG

http://www.hse.gov.uk/airtransport/live.htm

and even discussed (at length) by Parliament
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200607/cmhansrd/cm070418/debtext/70418-0021.htm

[groundhand]

Alot of the confusion comes in the difference between baggage allowance and a maximum bag weight; groups travelling together can pool their allowances and so we get heavy bags. Typically, Mum, Dad & 2 kids; each have 20 kgs bag allowance totalling 80 kgs but turn up at the airport with 2 bags weighing 32kgs and one of 16kgs. Before 2003 when the 32kg limit was introduced in the Uk (AUS/NZ were the first in 2002), they would have arrived with 2 bags of 40kgs each.

Another mis-understanding is that there is some legal limit to the weight of a bag. there is not; neither in the UK nor from the EU. Yes, there are recommended limits and IATA is in the process of reducing their recommended limit from 32kgs to 23kgs. I believe it will be published in their 2008 AHM.

Rainbow - you are WAY off line; I have not been a baggage handler for more that a few days over my career but I have seen the injuries sustained by honest, hard working guys and gals on ramps across the world. If you think it is a matter of 'can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen' you knowledge in this area is sadly lacking. The building industry, the breweries, supermarkets etc. all massively reduced their individual item weights years ago; sadly avaition has lagged behind with the (pathetic)excuse that it is a global business and you can't impose limits everywhere.

The reason there is no legal limit is each aircraft type is different, each baggage make-up area is different; the environment in terms of heat, humidity, cold etc. influences the ability of an individual as well as the frequency of moving the load.

From a pure safety perspective EVERYONE involved in aviation; crews, handlers, managers, travel agents et al should preach the gospel about lowering individual bag weights. 15-20kgs should be the target weight per bag, no more. If the idustry took as much care over it's employees as it does over the maintenance of the aircraft we could solve this overnight.

Why do peoplle need to take such huge bags?
Maybe if they banned the wheels on the bags and people had to lift AND carry there bags the passenger would begin to understand.

And remember, it is not just people in the aviation industry, this affects the coach & taxi drivers, hotel portes and everyone in the chain of lifting and moving these individual bags.

Sermon over...
GH

[Final 3 Greens]

Maybe if they banned the wheels on the bags and people had to lift AND carry there bags the passenger would begin to understand.

No they would use trolleys.

Maybe its time the aviation sector thought a bit more about the solution than the problem?

[radeng]

The easy answer might be that instead of two bags of 32kg, you allow 3 bags of 21kg..... Or is this too easy?

[10secondsurvey]

Flying via LHR, all of this become irrelevant, as BA WILL lose your bag - regardless of weight.

[groundhand]

"Maybe its time the aviation sector thought a bit more about the solution than the problem?"

It's true that additional minds and new thoughts should always be welcome.

The topic of how to reduce musculoskeletal injuries within aviation has challenged the industry, medical experts, the regulators and the unions for many years. progress has been made but there is still a long way to go to substantially reduce the problem.

In essence, the problem starts with the design of the aircraft.
Secondly, we have the ecomonics of the industry, cost over total safety.
Thirdly, it is a global industry and sadly, there are still parts of the globe where it is acceptable to maim and injure individuals because labour is cheap and there is no legal recourse for the injured.

Technical developments have been made:
Sliding carpets - most airlines remove them because of the weight penalty as weight = money.
Another potential solution is advanced loading equipment such as Rampsnake; it only cost x5 the current alternative so very few handling companies can afford them.
Automated bag halls - yes the technology is there and several systems have been tested. The airlines and the ground handlers do not, generally, own the airport infrastructure so getting capital investement to completely redesign and re-build baghalls is not top priority for the airport owners. After all, it's not there employees who are being injured.

The simplest way to resolve the problem is to reduce the load that has to be moved i.e. the bag. Not rocket science. Education along with regualtion CAn make a difference. The 'naysayers' all said that 32kgs was unenforceable in the UK - wrong; just as 23kgs WILL be enforced in the UK - it just does not solve the global issue.

So my friend, your thoughts and solutions would be very welcome.

[Final 3 Greens]

So my friend, your thoughts and solutions would be very welcome.

My fees are 2,000€ per day plus expenses, as a consultant.

Otherwise I would prefer to revert to the usual situation where the suppliers think about how to deliver better service levels to the paying customer.

[groundhand]

Ah, the old supplier/customer sidestep.

Me thinks you have little to offer other than words.
As for me, no longer in the game so the field of play is not really an issue anymore.

I just know (Aviation ground handling - statistically THE worst industry in the UK for MSD injuries) that whilst the regulators, airlines, employers, infrastructure providers, aircraft equipment manufacturers, passenger groups et al study their navels, somewhere on an airport today, some poor individual has been injured - possibly permanently.

But hey, carry on packing those bags....

[Final 3 Greens]

Me thinks you have little to offer other than words

As I am a management consultant, that statement is truer than you probably realize.

But a lot of large companies feel that those words offer a lot of value.

So I say once again, the air travel industry needs to get its act together find a solution.

By the way, if the job is so dangerous, maybe all the handlers should exercise their choice of career and leave.

Once the companies had no one to shift the bags, they would soon change their approach.

[Final 3 Greens]

Ah, the old supplier/customer sidestep.

Yes, strangely enough when I pay €900 for a short haul ticket, I do expect the supplier to earn it and that includes thinking about how to improve my experience.

[bealine]

........strangely enough when I pay €900 for a short haul ticket, I do expect the supplier to earn it and that includes thinking about how to improve my experience.

Improving Your Experience would include, then, limiting the weight of your baggage so that YOU lessen your chances of injuring YOURSELF!

I quite agree with an earlier posting - instead of the 2 pieces at 32kg allowance, why not replace it wih 3 pieces at 23kg each instead? I think I know the answer already - CASH!!!

So, if we're going to make this reduction, why not trade off the reduced baggage weights with an investment in "kerbside" or "drive in" bag drop facilities to make the customers' experience altogether better. A Win-Win-Win situation all round I would have thought! But, hey, I don't have any influence over what Big Airways does - perhaps, FTG, the suggestion would look good coming from you?

That having been said, all airlines do need to actively start encouraging people to take only the items they need for their trip. It was quite an eye-opener when I used to threaten passengers from Africa or South America with excess charges just how many heavy, low value items such as tins of baked beans came out of their suitcases to be jettisoned. These cheap, heavy items unnecessarily being shipped every day contribute greatly to excess fossil fuel burning and fuel emissions.

[bealine]

I unreservedly apologise, by the way, for my earlier post insulting Americans as "thick". The insult was not intended seriously - just a bit of light-hearted fun! Anyone who knows me would realise I quite like the USA and have a lot of time in particular for the people (and miniature donkeys at the Short Assets Ranch, Dallas) of Texas.
With the news of so many people losing their homes in California right now (and San Diego rates as one of my favourite places on this planet) I realise my attempt at humour was ill-timed - SORRY!!!

Right Ho! - Back on Topic...............

[PAXboy]

Two clear points have emerged. Points that we all know to be true but worth remembering when the temperature rises:
Much airport infrastructure is maybe 20 years (or more) old and the possibility to upgrade may rest with politicians (local or national) who do not have the stomach to start a programme that will not bring benefits until after they have left office. If the airport is owned by a commercial company (we can all think of at least one example :hmm:) then they do not want to put in money when they cannot know how long it will take them to get their money back - because of regulations!
The accountants are running the airlines (and the airports too) and they have 100% difficulty in spending money on something that will 'bring customer benefits' of the kind that cannot be measured. In this, they are not alone. I am currently watching a UK national chain (nothing to do with airlines) doing the same thing - boosting profits whilst reducing customer satisfaction.Now, just to cheer you up ... another news report about changed baggage regulations by BA.

Surfboard ban aboard all BA flights

The Independent By Emily Dugan Published: 26 October 2007

The Beach Boys would not be pleased. In a decision that threatens that great hippy institution, the surfing safari, British Airways (BA) have announced they are banning surfboards from all their flights. [edit] as BA will not allow any surfboards on their flights from 6 November.

The surfing community is up in arms, pointing out that other sporting equipment, such as snowboards, bicycles and skis are still allowed. But the airline says that the fibreglass boards, which often weigh less than 4kg, and are usually about six foot long, are too large to take on their planes. Also banned for their size are windsurfing boards and sails, kayaks and javelins.

[EDIT]
Here is the REALLY amusing bit:
The news comes as a particular blow to the British surf team, who have always used BA to transport them on their tours and competitions. Karen Wolton, national director of the BSA, said: "I don't know what will happen in cases where only BA fly to a country. You can't arrive for a competition and wait around two weeks for your board to arrive by courier, and each board is designed specially for its rider, so it's not a case where you could just pick up another one abroad.

"We're very disappointed. The BSA has always travelled with British Airways, and we've always recommended them, because until now they used to let people take boards on as part of their baggage allowance. I can see no rational reason for continuing to carry skis, snowboards and golf clubs, and not carrying surfboards. I really don't understand, except that I assume the expensive seats are sold to people who play golf rather than surf."
The article continues ...
http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/transport/article3098866.ece


OK everyone, start the thread all over again :}

(Sorry, Bealine as you have been a good supporter of the customer but it looks as if your accountants have just made another brilliant decision.)

[Final 3 Greens]

Bealine

BA doesn't care about me.

I gave up on BA after my suitcase got seriously damaged on a trip to Brussels and the BA groundstaff wouldn't offer any assistance. That on a £444 club ticket.

That following on the pax abuse that arose from the Gate Gourmet dispute and disruption by threatened or actual strikes for the previous 2-3 years. then the baggage lottery (mine got misplaced at London earlier in the year) and finally the CC strike this year.

I couldn't care less whether BA survives, its a rotten airline experience these days and I generally avoid it.

As to 3 x 21 kgs, that sounds sensible to me; I have never checked more than 25 kgs personally, but there are those pax who wish to.

[GwynM]

As long as they ban golf clubs as well, then it's fair. Unfortunately the Wuperts and Wodneys will need something to do when they go away, but hey, golf is OK for business traveller, and it doesn't matter a d@mn who suffers (I speak as an ex diver whose kit weighed less than golf clubs, but they got free carriage and I didn't)

[bealine]

(I speak as an ex diver whose kit weighed less than golf clubs, but they got free carriage and I didn't)

Strictly speaking, golf clubs were never carried free. The baggage allowance was increased for someone taking golf clubs to from 23kgs to 30kgs and any excess should have been charged at 50% of the full rate.

Then the accountants saw fit to simplify and say "one piece of baggage plus one piece of sporting equipment" (which I would have said applied to your diving kit).

As for the Surf Board bit, I can see why our Big Chiefs have gone down this road - in Terminal 5, we want as many pax as possible ready to drop bags and go without fiddling and fannying around sorting out excess baggage charges and dropping oversize items at Out of Gauge belts and such-like. The new baggage system is geared up for semi-automation and items like surf boards, windsurfers and canoes are just incompatible traffic!

The trouble is, British Airways has been an airline that was all things to all people. The likes of EasyJet and SilverJet have come along "cherry-picking" the easiest customers to deal with or making the awkward ones pay through the nose for excess baggage. To compete on a level playing field, Auntie BA must adapt - this is what "Future Size and Shape" was all about!

I might not agree with what we're doing, but by God, I understand it!

[PAXboy]

Thanks for that bealine, always good to have your input. The input:... sorting out excess baggage charges and dropping oversize items at Out of Gauge belts and such-like. The new baggage system is geared up for semi-automation and items like surf boards, windsurfers and canoes are just incompatible traffic!is illuminating. They are starting off a spanking new terminal and wish to NOT cater for sporting gear? Someone needs a spanking!!!

[skydriller]

The trouble is, British Airways has been an airline that was all things to all people.
This was what made BA "the worlds favorite airline".....Note the past tense as you yourself used it too...
The likes of EasyJet and SilverJet have come along "cherry-picking" the easiest customers to deal with or making the awkward ones pay through the nose for excess baggage.
And the reason BA are losing customers is because they are forgetting the difference there used to be between them and every other airline, ie they used to care about their passengers, and do their utmost to accomodate them and fix problems - now they dont give a t##s, and so pax are going elsewhere because they can easy (pun!) find another airline that will not give a t##s .....
I've been flying to/from/for work etc almost 10years now (where did the time go!!) and I have to say that when I started flying around BA was at the top of my prefered airline/route list and there wasnt any competition to speak of for that spot....BA definitely isnt at the top of the list now, and unfortunately it isnt because the other airlines got much better!! tHeifrow being the transfer point has not helped either!!
Regards, SD..

[bealine]

Hi PaxBoy - I think it's probably more to do with the gradual shedding of jobs in baggage after the abysmal Gate Gourmet strike action a couple of years ago. I have a strong feeling that WW and his chums are taking steps to ensure that in the new terminal, if there was a walkout, it's effect would be minimal!

........and, for once, I understand what our Senior Management is up to (and it's not often, I admit, but since Willie Walsh appeared on the scene, I find myself empathising more and more with Board Level decisions.) Maybe it's because WW appears to always be open and up front and makes sure the staff know what is going on! We've not been used to this before!

[radeng]

But BA do such funny things! I had a Gold 'upgrade for 2'. Tried to use it to go to Oz and Kiwi. No flights available for 2, but could book Club and use the upgrade for 1 person. Could also use miles to book on the same flight in 1st for the other person! Now if there were seats avaliable for 2 people using miles, albeit in different ways, why not for 2 upgrading?

Still, first class to Oz and back for 2 people for under £500 and miles isn't too bad...the only snag is that we have to go through LHR!

[groundhand]

F3G

As to 3 x 21 kgs, that sounds sensible to me; I have never checked more than 25 kgs personally, but there are those pax who wish to.

Absolutely, unfortunately the US carriers with thier 'piece' rules rather than 'kg' rules will not buy into this concept.

e.g.
If a couple travelling on a US carrier reduce their individual bag weights by having an extra bag they get done for excess baggage because they exceed their piece limit; even though their total weight remains the same.

Even IATA failed to get any movement from the US on this. Trying to get global agreement has been a very challenging task; we can control all the outbound from the UK and other like minded countries - no matter what the carrier rules; but need co-operation for the inbound.

[TSR2]

Are the max. weight recommendations (or regulations) any different when loading freight onto a passenger flight as opposed to baggage.

[bealine]

The recommendations and regulations are absolutely no different - EC Regulations state that 25kgs is the maximum that should be lifted unaided by one person.

Any item that is over 25kgs should be clearly marked with a green line around the entire circumference and girth and a label affixed clearly showing the weight.

This is actually anomalous because, although it is applied in the freight sector, and has been since the late 1970's, it doesn't actually state that it is only for freight. Legally, it could be construed to apply equally to passenger's baggage or to any item purchased in the shops! (I noticed IKEA have warning notices for heavy items inviting customers to ask for assistance and that the weights of the items are very clearly marked on their cartons.)

As has been stated, the reason airlines in the EC are so scared to implement the regulations are because US carriers will not comply. I think the enforcement will come when one of the relevant Trades Unions takes the issue to the European courts.

[bealine]

If you are interested in the HSE stance on Manual Handling:

http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg383.pdf

[radeng]

It's time bealine was running BA - then I believe, we'd see customer care coming to the front! Of course, bealine would have to manage on WW's salary.......