who has the responsability?

[el_hispano]

Hi everyone!

I am preparing for an aviation knowledge exam, and during the study two questions have appeared.

- During a radar vectoring approach, who has the final responsability to clearance the terrain?

- Which is the best moment to do the after landing checklist? (Somebody told me that is once you have vacated the runway or while once landed, you are doing the backtrack)

Thank you in advance and cheeers! ;)

[Gullyone]

Terrain clearance is the responsibility of the pilot..
Checks should be done when runway vacated

[Superpilot]

According to ICAO rules which the UK Air Law exam is based on. Terrain clearance during radar vectoring is the responsibility of the Air Traffic Controller!

[Spitoon]

During a radar vectoring approach, who has the final responsability to clearance the terrain?
The pilot always has the final responsibility, but during radar vectoring the controller will issue instructions that are terrain safe.

Which is the best moment to do the after landing checklist? (Somebody told me that is once you have vacated the runway or while once landed, you are doing the backtrack)
From an ATC perspective - and a good safety management perspective - it would be preferable that the crew gives full attention to taxying until clear of the runway and any complex part of the txaiway system. This reduces the potential for runway incursions. I suspect that different views will come from pilots operating single-crew vs. multi-crew but from my PPL level experience I would only do essential actions whilst on or around the runway.

[Superpilot]

Negative Spitoon.

It is the ATS Unit's legal responsibility for providing terrain clearance when a flight in accordance with IFR is being vectored by radar. It's the one responsibility (final or otherwise) that is not placed on the Pilot In Command.

At least that's what they teach you for Air Law and I recall this exact question in my exam.

On the other hand, if ATC gave PIC a clearance, e.g. "BluSky 737 cleared via the LUMPY 4A STAR" (i.e. just a clearance with no vectors) then the responsibility would be the PIC's.

[Spitoon]

Superpilot, for the sake of clarity I will refer you to ICAO Doc 4444 PANS-ATM and, in particular, to Note 2 (repeated in other relevant places) to para 2.1 in the Foreword and para 8.6.5.2. In respect of terrain clearance the UK implements these PANS, albeit using slightly different wording and structure, in the relevant legislation and procedures.

Although it is more than 30 years since I did my Air Law exam I will happily debate any points with you if you wish to give references for your statements - but perhaps doing so by PM would save hijacking this thread.

[el_hispano]

Thanks to everyone! now it's more clear

;)

[Lemper]

Indeed, to coroborate Spitoon, whether it is ICAO annex docs, ANO, JAA, FAA, and all international aviation (and/or navigation) laws one might encounter, ATC is, with or without positive radar assistance, a control of air TRAFFIC, and NOT a control of the aircraft; henceforth, the final responsibility for avoiding collision with the terrain (which, by the way, does NOT participate to the air TRAFFIC) incumbs to the pilot in command, who is supposedly to be in control of the aircraft, whether in IMC, VMC, IFR, VFR, Radar control or vector. To help any unfaithful, Jepp even publishes a page 10-1A page, labeled "radar vectoring minimum altitudes sectors" or something like that, in airport where terrain is a sensitive issue.

[Brian Abraham]

To add there have been a few occasions where aircraft have been radar vectored into granite so it requires pilots to keep a plot of "where I'm at". Lemper and Spitoon have it. :ok: