FAA PPL IR conversion to JAA PPL IR

[Kyprianos Biris]

Here's the scenario :

I have a UK PPL ME Night IMC since 1990 last renewed in 2004 but not revalidated since then and not converted to JAR PPL yet.

I have an FAA PPL ME IR since 2004 and current (and not attached to the UK PPL).

Total hours more than 500 with more than 100 IFR.

I'm investigating the scenario of what is needed in order to end up with a JAR PPL ME IR :ugh: using the licenses I have.

What do you recommend ?

The UK PPL does not have a UK IR on it and therefore the JAR IR objective may be treated as a new IR rating on the JAR PPL if only the UK PPL is used.

The FAA PPL has the ICAO state national IR on it but the PPL is not JAR, its an ICAO state national license.

Is the best course of action to :

A) convert the UK PPL to JAR and then go for adding the IR to it as a conversion from the FAA license ?

or

B) should I best convert the whole FAA PPL ME IR to same in JAR ?

What are the differences and the odds in each case ?

I am in Greece with access to UK CAA approved FTO's.

I checked both LASORS2007 and JAR-FCL 1 but I'm not sure its all clear to me as to the two scenario's above what's the best course of action. :confused:

Thank you in advance.

[gcolyer]

Or buy a N reg aircraft or get in to an N reg group and enjoy the FAA privelages that you have.

[IO540]

Kyp - you can get a JAA IR added to your UK PPL, based on your FAA IR, if you sit all the JAA PPL/IR exams (about 9 of them), do a min 15hrs flying, and pass the CAA checkride.

If you do this in some other JAA countries (I don't have a list) then you can avoid the 15hrs mandatory flying requirement.

Otherwise, I'd go N-reg.

[julian_storey]

I'm very keen on this idea of converting my FAA IR to a JAA one without having to pay for 15 hours of training.

Does anyone have a list of countries that will allow you to convert just by passing the exams and passing the flight test?

[S-Works]

The 15hrs of training includes the flight test which is usually just over 2 hours. A pilot who is converting from the FAA IR unless very highly skilled will take most of the remaining 13hrs to be ready for the test unless very current at flying in Europe on the FAA IR.

This is due to the fact that under JAA you are expected to perform in a very specific way for the test, this includes, NDB holds, single engine NDB approaches etc. It also takes a bit of time getting used to the European way of doing things for airspace radio etc.

[dublinpilot]

If I have read IO's reply correctly, you must also do all the written exams. That would seem much more significant than the 15 hours.

dp

[englishal]

Yes it would seem far more significant.

If I could just sign up with someone at Bournemouth and do the IR in 15 hrs, I'd do it over the next few weeks (perfect weather today). Even if it took 20 hours I wouldn't mind too much.

But to do the exams first (at a cost of £2000 and 6 months)....nah, can't be bovvered.

Oh, and don't you need a class 1 audiogram too?

Too much hassle for me I am afraid.

[IO540]

The exams will take more than 6 months unless you have good memory and can work on them more or less full time. Have you seen the material? It's 1-2 feet of paper thickness.

You do need the JAA Class 1 audiogram.

I would go N-reg, and if/when EASA kill that off then examine the options again, but they are very unlikely to be worse than doing nothing right now. EASA cannot (for political reasons) kill off N-reg flying unless they offer a really good carrot.

OTOH I have it on very good authority (from a U.S. examiner I know) that the FAA has stopped examiners visiting Europe; for now anyway. One outfit in Norwich claims to have a sole agency for the UK, but I would carefully check out his acceptance of existing/previous training.............

[Kyprianos Biris]

Thank you for your replies.
Today I dropped in my CAA's FCL dep.

My best course of action is :
1. Renew my UK Medical (expired, I guess JAR now)
2. Revalidate UK PPL (3 yrs since last time) with (Greek resident) UK CFI
3. Send it off to UKCAA to convert to JAR PPL
4. When I receive it back, have my CAA transfer "issuing country rights" from UK to Hellenic (Greece) CAA
5. While this takes place I am allowed to start the JAR IR procedure with the (few) bits recognized by JAA for the FAA IR. It is not a "conversion" any more but a full JAR IR course with few exemptions due to the ICAO IR.
a. register with a Greek JAR FTO
b. take distance learning IR ground school in Greece ... the full pack, no exemptions there, except the hours of g/s required (some half of the full IR g/s)
c. take the 14 or so theory exams
d. do 15 hrs dual IR flying training (less hours due to valid ICAO IR in hand)
e. do the JAR IR flight exam

So basically all that the FAA IR saves me is the full Ground School (less training hours required) and the dual flight hours (15 hrs required).
If I did not have the UK PPL I would have to sit exams for basic JAR PPL as well and a flight test.

A temporary validation (i.e. for non European visitors) needs a JAR Medical, a couple of theory exams and a flight test for the basic PPL and is valid only for 6 months.

No thanks, I won't go the N'reg way. There are various reasons I am not keen on doing it and prefer to keep my aircraft on national registry as loyal humble tax payer :sad:

Fingers crossed, now I can only hope to find the time and energy to do these :rolleyes:

[Whopity]

d. do 15 hrs dual IR flying training (less hours due to valid ICAO IR in hand)
The 15 hours is a minimum training requirement for holders of an ICAO IR, many providers will tell you that few achieve it in 15 hours. If you find a rogue State that allows it to be done in less, you will then find that the UK will not accept that training as it does not meet the JAA requirement and they will not add the IR to your UK issued JAA licence.

[BillieBob]

The 15hrs of training includes the flight test which is usually just over 2 hours.No, it doesn't. The minimum training times quoted in JAR-FCL include, where appropriate, any progress tests but do not include the relevant Skill Test. In order to obtain a JAA IR, the holder of an IR issued in accordance with ICAO Annex 1 must undertake a minimum of 15 hours of flight training and pass the IR Skill Test.

[englishal]

My mate has just done it in 9 hrs sim, 6 hrs aeroplane (total inc. flight test).

(cost him £7000 too)....

[S-Works]

No, it doesn't. The minimum training times quoted in JAR-FCL include, where appropriate, any progress tests but do not include the relevant Skill Test. In order to obtain a JAA IR, the holder of an IR issued in accordance with ICAO Annex 1 must undertake a minimum of 15 hours of flight training and pass the IR Skill Test.

Then I suggest you tell the CAA that. I know of a number of people who have done it inclusive of the test in 15hrs as has apparently englishal's friend.