Qantas Looking at SA?

[SoWhereToNow]

I was on a trip recently and ran into a Qantas crew, mentioned how short they are. Heard from another source they will be looking to SA to fill their pilot gap... Anyone heard the same?

[SAASFO]

All airlines are looking at SA, specifically SAA. With the two CEO roadshows to the pilots this last week, and the pathetic attempt by management to explain the current situation, any pilot who thinks he or she has a future at SAA, except possibly pilots of colour, are smoking their socks.

The head of HR specifically mentioned that one of the main reasons they do not like our agreements is that they are unable to bring a black pilot who is a Captain at another airline and slot him straight into SAA as a direct entry Captain. They also do not like the fact that, where they have a surplus of pilots, they are unable to get rid if pilots from the top down, or to get rid of only white pilots but not pilots of colour.

This entire restructuring is nothing but an excuse to purge SAA of white employees.

I will bet my entire SAA salary that you will see a minimum of 10 SAA aircraft parked with no crew within 6 months.

[Q4NVS]

Australia's Rex warns of catastrophic pilot shortage
By Nicholas Ionides

Australia’s Regional Express (Rex) is warning of a “looming catastrophic shortage” of pilots in the country and has called on the Australian Government to provide subsidies for training.

Rex says in a statement that it expects a pilot shortage in Australia “will turn into a crisis in 12 months’ time as demand by the larger airlines intensifies to cope with their unprecedented expansion plans”.

Dominant domestic operators Qantas Airways and subsidiary Jetstar are expanding rapidly, as is competitor Virgin Blue. Singapore-based low-cost carrier Tiger Airways is also in the process of establishing a domestic operation in Australia.

“Already some airlines are struggling to find enough pilots to crew their regular schedules and many are resorting to cancelling flights to cope with the situation. The Rex cancellation rate, for example, is now running at four times historical levels.

The latest (Department of Transport and Regional Services) statistics, which are for July, show Rex with 0.9% of flights cancelled, Qantas at 1.6%, QantasLink at 1%, Virgin at 1.1% and Jetstar at 0.3%,” says Rex chief of staff Jim Davis.

“However the situation is predicted to get much worse. Based on industry feedback, we estimate that the net additional requirement for pilots will be of the order of 1,800 over the next two years. The supply of Airline Transport Pilot Licences every year in Australia is less than 400.

“It is obvious that the major carriers will not allow their brand new jets to sit idle on the tarmac. They will do everything they can to fill up the shortfall by raiding the regional airlines, general aviation, flying schools and specialist organisations like the Royal Flying Doctor Service, something they have already started doing in earnest. Of particular concern will be the loss of experienced flying instructors to the airlines.”

Davis says the smaller airlines will be badly hurt as they cannot match the salaries and conditions of the larger carriers, claiming that over the past three months more than 20% of Saab 340 operator Rex’s pilots have been poached by Virgin Blue, Jetstar and Qantas.

Rex recently announced it is establishing a cadet pilot training programme. Davis also says he hopes the Australian Government will provide subsidies for cockpit crew training.

“Rex has done all it could and we call on the Government to respond to this looming crisis by urgently implementing similar bold and decisive measures,” says Davis.

“The high cost of flying training, estimated at around A$80,000 ($71,000) per individual, is the main reason why there are not enough commercial pilots being produced today.

If the Government can subsidise the education of lawyers, accountants, engineers and other professionals, surely it can recognise that the piloting profession is equally worthy of assistance. Today there is not even a fee loan scheme outside of the tertiary institutions that aspiring pilots can tap into to turn their passion to reality.”


Guess this explains some of it...

(Btw, it is Qantas not Quantas)

:D

[Placido]

When Australia needed doctors, nurses, vets, engineers etc., they came to SA to fetch some.

Why will it be different for pilots?

Australia will be a lot more attractive than the Middle East! I bet a few SA pilots, now in the ME will also be willing to go to Oz.............

For managers of SA airlines:
Not only are the red lights flashing, the bells are surely ringing!

[777Contrail]

Well, I wouldn't mind moving to Oz.

I'll watch this space....................

[Romeo E.T.]

dusting off the CV required right now

[STUBBIES]

Hey there everyone.
Lots of work going in Aus.Biggest hastle seems to be salaries which everybody here believes to be too low(except management).Airline salaries are pretty good but GA not so hot.If anyone is thinking of coming over keep a look out on The Department of Immigration and Multicultural Affairs website(DIMA)The Government have included AME's on the points award list and there are rumours that pilots will follow soon.If you come over with an ATPL you will have to wright COMM law,IREX(instrument rating) and ATP law,a COMM flight test and Instrument flight test for a full Aus ATP.

Good luck.:ok::ok::ok:

[Romeo E.T.]

have included AME's on the points award list and there are rumours that pilots will follow soon.If you come over with an ATPL

Ok ..a bit lazy to search, but how about if you have an AME qualification and an ATP holder, chances even beter I presume..?

[soarer78]

There is no way of transferring an overseas engineer qualification so have to start from scratch in AU which takes years.

An ATPL on the other hand is considerably easier and can be achieved in a few months and not cost too much. CPL to CPL is also not that bad.
Qantas short of crews? HUH?
They all but stopped recruitment in 2005 and 2006, due to the delay in the A380. Now that A380 is arriving soon there is a lot of movement in QF and recruitment in 07 has kicked off in a big way. They still have a active hold file (awaiting employment start date) in the hundreds so doubt greatly that they will be looking elsewhere for crews.
Some of the regional’s and larger charter operators are a different story however. REX, MAC*IR and PAPSLEY Group are loosing crews to the bigger operators. WHY I hear you ask. Well the pays are bad and not improving, some even going backwards. Duty days have got longer. Days off have reduced. Rest periods have been reduced. Quality of life has gone down. Cost of living has gone up. They have introduced paying for ratings and again for upgrades (AUD$30k/R182K for metro and up to AUD$35/R212k for Braz and DHC8). Some companies require you to pay for part of rating and then bond for 3 years and AUD$30k. Bonds if applied are between 2 and 6 years and are not reduced to the end of every 12 months not monthly. Some have a condition of 3 months notice to quit.
So yes there is a shortage of pilots in Australia that are willing to work for companies like these. I hear that at least one company in AU has been approved to hire crews for their DHC8 from Canada, UK and South Africa only so send those resumes in if you want to come to Australia. Just remember though there are reasons why Aussies wont take the job but instead go overseas to work.

[chimbu warrior]

From someone on the spot.......
There is not a shortage of pilots in Australia, just a shortage of pilots willing to accept what is on offer.

Fly around Africa, Asia or Europe and you will hear plenty of Aussie accents. When the pay improves at home, they will return.

No different to South Africa really. ;)

[TwinJock]

Strange that the Auzzies working in the ME are not racing back home to help out with the pilot shortage - maybe taking a 50% pay cut has something to do with it:cool:!!!

Still, I am sure that their will be no shortage of applicants who are willing to work for peanuts - especially from the southern tip of Africa!

[Avi8tor]

“The high cost of flying training, estimated at around A$80,000 ($71,000) per individual, is the main reason why there are not enough commercial pilots being produced today.
What a plonker. Its called return on investment. If a young guy, thats interested, can't go and get a bank loan and pay it back in a reasonable time, they won't train as pilots. The high cost of university doesn't stop people becoming doctors, lawyers etc.

Pay more, the problem will go away. Not been 'down under' for a while, but property is crazy there and so is the tax.

Oldie, but a goodie, "Australia is a great place, just WAY too many Aussies."

[DuckingFast]

Easy cowboys. Before you all go attaching corks to your hats, might want to check in with the Australian Immigration Department. Yes, Australia is in need of pilots, and yes pilots were on the Skills Occupation List (SOL) in 2005. But to prevent foriegn crews from taking promotion away from charter/ turbo-prop pilots to the majors, the australian goverment will only accept foreign pilots who are willing to come fly for charter companies or turbo-prop airlines. This is why pilots are only on the ENSOL list (employer sponsered skills occupation list). In this way the Aus government can control which airlines can accept foreigners. And at this stage they are only allowing charter / flying doctor type operations to do this.

Also, one of the big reason for the shortage is the number of crews leaving for the Middle East!

[AirwayBlocker]

DuckingFast

If what you say is true then how do you explain the two SAA F/O's who just left to join Qantas?

[taperlok]

Those two were white cadets. the thanks SAA gets for all the training , is to leave.
That system was set up for the previously disadvantaged. Believe me they they were not disadvantaged.

[fluffyfan]

STUBBIES I assure you Australia will sort out there pilot shortage, why because they are progressive and know where to look, if they even hint at coming to find pilots at SAA (or SA for that matter) I assure you SAA will not know what hit them.

I know the pay is not great, but I will happily come to Australia and live in a country where my children have some hope.

[DuckingFast]

He got an Aus visa based on an Aeronautical Engineering Degree not on being a pilot.

[fluffyfan]

DuckingFast yes he did, but things are possibly changing, if you go online and look at the list of jobs that give you points you will notice that Pilot is not there.....and you then get -100 points for putting "my job is not listed"

I hear that is all about to change and Pilot will be worth 60 points quite soon

[Whenwe]

I am an old toppie, ex pilot, ex SAA (not pilot), still working in the aviation industry, thanks to the pilot shortage which has filtered through to other aspects of the aviation industry.

My son (not a pilot, well educated and a very good job) and his family live in Sydney, they just love it and so do I. My visa application is in, waiting and counting!

And you know what; there is no discrimination against age and other things. I am looking forward to working for many years in an occupation that has always been my passion.

As Fluffyfan says, SAA will not know what hit them if a chance to go to Australia becomes easier.

Good luck to you all! :ok:

[JetNut]

Whenwe,

Good luck with your decision to leave, I'm sure you have thought about it thoroughly.

But, why is it that so many still opt to stay (given the (perceived) negativity displayed by certain groups). Read this past sunday's business times' article on worldwide executive pay scales...and all will make more sense!

So the eternal question of life still goes abegging: "why is the grass greener?".....

[Whenwe]

Jetnut,

Not an easy question to answer. Suffice to say that as a family we made the decision to go about 10 years ago. My son and his family left first, mailnly for education and crime. My daughter and her husband will leave soon for the same reason. I have no wish to stay behind.
I will always be an African, born and bred and I will not apologize for the colour of my skin. I have put my life on the line for Rhodesia and South Africa and it was not a patch compared to being able to survive on the Gauteng roads. My house is like Fort Knox!!
Last December on holiday in Sydney, my son took us on a walk from the one end of Sydney to the other end to experience, as he said, and feel what it is like to walk in a city without having to look over your shoulder all the time.
My current job takes me into Africa and all I see is a backward slide. Remember, I have been flying in and out and over Africa since the middle sixty's. I know what it was like before "uhuru".
No thanks, I am going, God willing. But it is and will always be a personal decision. I am old enough to know that life is a compromise and in the end I will be exchanging one set of problems for another. You decide what you want to live with.
I will take Sydney organized traffic jams anytime above the William Nicol chaos.

[I.R.PIRATE]

I have no problem with that whatsoever.
It is every human's right to choose the life that he feels he wants. No one needs to settle for mediocrity, even if it gets forced upon you.
Go out there and LIVE........as opposed to hanging around this continent and hiding.

Safety for a man and his family are paramount. Living with no fear is really living.

Every man deserves the best the world has to offer - and that ain't found here.
:ok::D

[Whenwe]

I know I am going off the subject but for the benifit of our fellow pilots in Australia who lost friends to a horrific car accident in Dubai and the others who might not be aware of the "war" on our roads:

From News24:

South Africa
21 000 to die on SA roads 2007-10-16 21:26Johannesburg -

In an effort to halt the carnage on the country's roads, Netcare has made a call to all motorists to observe the rules of the road on Wednesday - known internationally as World Trauma Day.
Road accidents were by far the biggest cause of traumatic injuries in SA, Head of Netcare's trauma division, Mande Toubkin said.

"Every year in excess of half a million patients visit the Netcare Accident Emergency and Trauma units throughout the country," she said.

In the year to date, 76% of patients admitted to Netcare units were male.

"When analysing their ages, there is a huge peak in the age group of 20 to 24. Trauma targets the young and productive members of society," Toubkin said.

The aggressive driving and lack of tolerance for other road users exhibited by South African drivers was the main cause of accidents, she said.

The Road Traffic Management Corporation estimated that 21 000 people will die on SA roads during 2007.

So far 15 000 people have lost their lives in this way this year.
SAPA

[I.R.PIRATE]

Add to that the 18 000 murders, and its probably the highest non-natural mortality rate in the world.

[soarer78]

Closer to 20,000 per year, and thats just the official stats. Could be more. :}

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=282845

There are other ways to come to Aussie, lots of others have done it and never looked back. Good Luck

[Q4NVS]

Anyone have any concrete info regarding the rumoured Qantas Roadshow in SA on (I think) the 31st October 2007?

:hmm:

[line-driver]

I see the Sunday Times carried an add for a company in Aussie looking for Dash8 Captains.

[newcrew]

anybody got a link the advert / do you need oz residency

fly safe

[mach decimal 83]

That ad is for the Australian coastwatch. First time ever, that I see in an ad, that you can apply if you have South African citizenship.

[Romeo E.T.]

From the Sunday times.
Surveillance Australia is the prime aerial surveillance contractor, contacted through to 2020, on the Australian Governments Coast watch Border Protection program.
We currently have vacancies for suitably qualified Captains to operate our Dash8 aircraft, working in a close-knit team in a dynamic maritime surveillance environment. Current vacancies exist in Broome and Darwin and the successful applicants can expect to commence employment in 2008.Actual start dates will be dependant on the successful issue of a Customs Security Clearance and an appropriate Australian visa.
The company will provide sponsorship for a temporary business visa (457) to the successfull applicant and their eligable dependents. Assistance will also be provided for any future application for a permanent visa.
Prospective pilots can view minimum qualifications and register expression of interest by visiting www.surveillanceaustralia.com.au .Select the "Careers" section and go to the recruitment portal.
Follow the links to the jobs page to register as an external applicant.

[nugpot]

I see they want search and rescue experience and would like DH8 rating. So this job is perfect for any of the 20 or so ex-27 and -35 Sqn guys still at SAX.

[james ozzie]

The Aus visa system is complicated & one should get advice unless ones circumstances are very straight forward. I have heard that the 457 Visa category can be very problematic as it is just too difficult for many people to fulfill the requirements. The result is that after a few years of struggling to make a new life, the would-be immigrant gets tossed out, with much heartache & bitterness. It seems 457 visas are handed out like sweets, knowing that it creates severe obstacles for the immigrant yet providing the employer some short term stop gap relief.
Am not too sure but I think the 457 visa requires the immigrant to start a business enterprise that employs at least 2 Australians full time for a certain period (?) Now that is practically impossible for a full time line pilot but the employer gets his/her services for the period of the visa. I also heard that this visa category may be withdrawn as it is a source of so much trouble to immigrants.
Oh, and once you have failed to meet the conditions of a migrants visa, then it is unlikely that another visa in any category will be granted (aside from holidays). Far better to get a skilled migrants visa in the first instance (there is another thread on this somewhere)

[flyknight]

If there's a REAL shortage of pilots in Oz AND the Oz goverment offer permanent residency to SAA pilots and a job at (eg) Virgin Blue..... half the pilots in SAA will pack their bags and swim to Oz if they have to...salaries not that important

[Solid Rust Twotter]

Got that right. I'm not Spoories but would be off like a long dog after a bitch on heat with an offer like that....

[Whenwe]

27 years ago I could have, should have, and did not go....... long story.

On the other hand I believe I am always at the right place, at the right time!

Follow your heart, make a decision what you truly believe is best for the family.....
And if you decide to go, then go. Do not stare yourself blind at the finances, it is not going to make any sense, just go and in aviation I have found that you will always be justly rewarded.
The Australian Immigration department is not user friendly but they do have an excellent website. You will probably find all the answers you need there. Study the skills list, link on the website, and consider the services of an agent. Will probably set you back a few dollars but it might be worth it.

A friend saw an advert, not avaition, applied, got it and is about to leave, all in a matter of months.

No company is going to hand you a job on a plate. Go and get it!!!
It has never, ever been so good for you guys.
I am going for my annual holiday to Sydney in a month, can't waite!!!:ok:

[flyknight]

Just heard - Jetstar is coming to South Africa to recruit pilots. They offer employment and sponsored visa's for suitable candidates. Interviews in Jnb from 8 Jan 08. The excodus is about to start.... the Yarpies are coming :D:D

[Q4NVS]

We regret that applications for positions available in Australia can not be accepted from overseas residents who do not fulfil Australian residency requirements at the time of application.

How and where?

[beechbum]

Rumours in the corridors that several if not all Airbus training
Captains were called by Jetstar a few weeks back inviting individuals to apply.......they're coming.......so watch this space!

[Nomad ness]

457 Visa
(Quote....
Long Term Temporary Resident (Subclass 457)
This visa class allows Australian employers to sponsor temporary residence visas for foreign workers. There are three steps involved.
The employer is required to be an approved Business Sponsor(Say... Qantas) (they can apply for this - it takes around 4 weeks for approval, provided they meet the criteria). At this time, they can request a specific number of visas.
Once approved as a Business Sponsor, the employer then has 2 years to allocate the approved visa spots to specific positions. So, they may use one to bring on a Developer, one for a Sales Professional, one for a Recruiter, etc. Provided the position is listed in the ASCO listings (see link below for these) there should be no problem with this. This process is called the Nomination. At the same time, they can specify that they have already identified the person that they would like to fill the role.
The third step is the Visa Application, where the employee applies for the nominated visa position. If the employee meets the criteria specified in the nomination, is under the age of 45, and has a clear medical check, then the visa should be issued.

Pros
It's quick! Once an employer is an approved Business Sponsor, then the actual nomination and application process can take as little as 2 weeks, although more often than not, it takes around 4-6 weeks. Many companies apply for multiple visas every two years, so that they can move quickly once a candidate has been identified. This is why we always stress that you should go ahead and apply for positions on websites, even though they say only residents can apply. Many, if not most, of the bigger companies, are already approved sponsors.
Immediate Family, ie spouse/partner and dependant children can accompany the primary sponsor and have unrestricted work rights.
No Points System! Visas are granted on the basis of the visa applicant being suited to the position. For those with no tertiary education, this is a godsend.( CASA Com Pilot Lic & CASA LAME is also seen as a Australian Qualification)
Pathway to Permanent Residence!. The Employer Nomination Scheme (ENS) allows employers to sponsor their 457 temporary residents for Permanent Residency after the have worked in Australia on a fulltime basis for 2 years, and have been with the sponsoring employer for at least the last 12 months. ENS also has no points system, and provided that you pass the medical and character checks, the process can again be quick (anything from 6 weeks to 6 months).

Cons
Work Restrictions! The 457 visa restricts you from working for anyone other than the sponsoring employer. If you leave them, you need to find another employer that is willing to sponsor you, or else leave the country. Because you need 2 years employment under the same code for ENS, you'll also need to make sure that your new employer uses the same code. However, it is a relatively simple process to move, and if you have good skills, then companies are often happy to become your sponsor. I have personally changed employers since arriving last year in November, and there was no problem with it. 4 of my colleagues at my previous company have also all moved on to new sponsors.
A 457 visa grants Temporary Residence only. This means that you will not have access to state benefits like Medicare or Family Assistance / other Social Security benefits. In some states, temporary residents are required to pay School Fees, even in public school. In NSW, these fees are $4500-$5000 per child per annum. However in WA, NWT & QLD it is about $180 per year!
The whole feeling of only being Temporary can feel quite unsettling. However, at the end of the day, 2 years can go by at a rapid speed and you will be eligible to apply for ENS sooner than you think!

In summary, the 457 is a great option if you don't qualify on the points system, or want to move quickly. Although it can be soul destroying to continously apply for positions and be rejected on the basis of residency, keep at it! There are many of us on the forum (and many of the Hosts) that have secured our visas in this way.
If at all possible, identify the big employers in your field and approach them directly. If they are prepared to consider sponsorship, and if you can afford it, try to come out for a week and meet with them personally. My sister and her husband did this and both got job offers, with sponsorships, as a result. It's worth it if you can afford it.

Here's a link to the ASCO Codes.

http://www.abs.gov.au/Ausstats/[email protected]/66...35?opendocument (http://www.abs.gov.au/Ausstats/[email protected]/66f306f503e529a5ca25697e0017661f/5C244FD9D252CFC8CA25697E00184D35?opendocument)
....Un Quote)


Note:
You can start the Permanent Residency application in about 3 months from starting with the company( PR takes 5 weeks if all your docs are in place) provided:
The applicant has been working in Australia in the nominated ASCO occupation for the past 2 years and has been with the nominating employer for at least the past 12 months
OR
The applicant holds a qualification that is postively assessed by the assessing authority (CASA Com Pilot Lic & CASA LAME is also seen as a Australian Qualification)
OR
The applicant is being appointed into an executive management role, where the base salary, excluding allowances and Super, exceeds $165K per annum.

My cents worth,
:ok:

[flyknight]

Hi Nomad ness

Thanks for the Visa info. Would like to buy you a couple of cold ones somewhere in the world. Much appreciated

[Nomad ness]

Qantas/Jetstar orders aircraft from Boeing, Airbus

Up to 188 new planes have been ordered as part of the carrier's expansion into Asia and Australia.

SYDNEY, Australia (Dow Jones/AP) -- Qantas Airways Ltd. said Wednesday it has ordered up to 188 new planes from Boeing Co. and Airbus to support its short-haul growth plans in Australia and Asia.

The order includes 68 A320 or the larger A321 aircraft, and 31 Boeing 737-800 aircraft. The Australian national carrier has also taken out an additional 40 options and purchase rights over the Airbus aircraft and 49 for the 737.
The purchase price of the planes wasn't disclosed.
Chairwoman Margaret Jackson told shareholders at the airline's annual meeting in Melbourne that the new order will take the company's total aircraft order book to nearly 35 billion Australian dollars, or $31 billion, at list prices.
In August, Qantas is due to receive the first of 20 Airbus A380 superjumbos it has ordered to operate on major international routes.
Gulf airlines sign mass aircraft orders (http://money.cnn.com/2007/11/11/news/companies/gulf_airlines/index.htm)
Singapore Airlines brought the A380 from Singapore to Sydney last month in its maiden passenger flight.
Qantas' low-fares subsidiary, Jetstar, will also start receiving in early 2009 the first 15 of 65 Boeing 787 "Dreamliner" aircrafts it has ordered for long-term routes.
"This decision, together with existing A380 and B787 fleet commitments, secures an order stream for next generation aircraft that will allow the group to meet long-term demand growth and replace older aircraft over the next decade," Chief Executive Geoff Dixon said.
The new aircraft will be used to defend the group's 65 percent share of the Australian domestic market, 33 percent of international routes into Australia, and to expand its low-cost services to Southeast Asia, Dixon said.
Dixon said the Airbus order for up to 108 aircraft will provide, "aggressive growth for Jetstar and enable it to establish new international bases in Darwin and Perth," to better serve nearby South East Asian markets.
Qantas' order is "a big signal to both Virgin Blue and Tiger and any other prospective entrants that it will take no prisoners" in defending its market share, said Derek Sadubin, an analyst at the consultancy Center for Asia Pacific Aviation.
Virgin Blue is Qantas' main domestic rival.
Air India eyes Airbus superjumbos

[Q4NVS]

AFAIK 2 SAA 738 FO's already left to join Qantas mate's...

[Avi8tor]

......wonder how they afford it? Money is not stellar, but taxation and property are.

[AirwayBlocker]

They live together.

Making them a dual income family.

[Avi8tor]

True. Did they both get in?

[AirwayBlocker]

Yep. He and she.

[beechbum]

AFAIK 2 SAA 738 FO's already left to join Qantas mate's...
Actually A319 F/O's.........now on 747-400 course at Qantas! Where there's a will, there is a way!

[Nomad ness]

"......wonder how they afford it? Money is not stellar, but taxation and property are. "

I promise you they will be much, much better off having a life out of the cockpit ....money is not everything mate. Quality of life is worth 100 times more than money alone.

Bond rates are 7%.

Tax rates are better as well.

An Australian resident (whether permanent or temporary) is entitled to the first $6 000 a year income tax free.
A non-resident pays 15% income tax on the first $6 000.

An Australian resident pays income tax at the following rates:

$0 to $6 000 0

$6 000 to $30 000 15%

$30 000 to $75 000 30%

$75 000 to $125 000 40%

over $125 000 45%

[Coleman Myers]

SAA 4holers, the least appreciated, most experienced -400 pilots in the world !. Who will drive those cigar tubes from Airbus if everybody buggers of to Oz ?.

[fourgolds]

Coleman
The most experienced -400 drivers in the world !!!! always worth a laugh.
I guess the boys at Nippon , Lufthansa , CX , BA bla bla bla could only dream of meeting the SAA standards.
The -400,s may go but the arrogance remains.

[Coleman Myers]

Come, give the "Bokks" a break .. bet you've never done a LHR - JNB, then jumped back on and done a JNB - CPT in Easter fog with a load of bucket n' spading vaalies ?.