Qantas Looking at SA?
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Qantas Looking at SA?
I was on a trip recently and ran into a Qantas crew, mentioned how short they are. Heard from another source they will be looking to SA to fill their pilot gap... Anyone heard the same?
Last edited by SoWhereToNow; 13th Oct 2007 at 08:16.
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All airlines are looking at SA, but mainly SAA!
All airlines are looking at SA, specifically SAA. With the two CEO roadshows to the pilots this last week, and the pathetic attempt by management to explain the current situation, any pilot who thinks he or she has a future at SAA, except possibly pilots of colour, are smoking their socks.
The head of HR specifically mentioned that one of the main reasons they do not like our agreements is that they are unable to bring a black pilot who is a Captain at another airline and slot him straight into SAA as a direct entry Captain. They also do not like the fact that, where they have a surplus of pilots, they are unable to get rid if pilots from the top down, or to get rid of only white pilots but not pilots of colour.
This entire restructuring is nothing but an excuse to purge SAA of white employees.
I will bet my entire SAA salary that you will see a minimum of 10 SAA aircraft parked with no crew within 6 months.
The head of HR specifically mentioned that one of the main reasons they do not like our agreements is that they are unable to bring a black pilot who is a Captain at another airline and slot him straight into SAA as a direct entry Captain. They also do not like the fact that, where they have a surplus of pilots, they are unable to get rid if pilots from the top down, or to get rid of only white pilots but not pilots of colour.
This entire restructuring is nothing but an excuse to purge SAA of white employees.
I will bet my entire SAA salary that you will see a minimum of 10 SAA aircraft parked with no crew within 6 months.
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Australia's Rex warns of catastrophic pilot shortage
By Nicholas Ionides
Australia’s Regional Express (Rex) is warning of a “looming catastrophic shortage” of pilots in the country and has called on the Australian Government to provide subsidies for training.
Rex says in a statement that it expects a pilot shortage in Australia “will turn into a crisis in 12 months’ time as demand by the larger airlines intensifies to cope with their unprecedented expansion plans”.
Dominant domestic operators Qantas Airways and subsidiary Jetstar are expanding rapidly, as is competitor Virgin Blue. Singapore-based low-cost carrier Tiger Airways is also in the process of establishing a domestic operation in Australia.
“Already some airlines are struggling to find enough pilots to crew their regular schedules and many are resorting to cancelling flights to cope with the situation. The Rex cancellation rate, for example, is now running at four times historical levels.
The latest (Department of Transport and Regional Services) statistics, which are for July, show Rex with 0.9% of flights cancelled, Qantas at 1.6%, QantasLink at 1%, Virgin at 1.1% and Jetstar at 0.3%,” says Rex chief of staff Jim Davis.
“However the situation is predicted to get much worse. Based on industry feedback, we estimate that the net additional requirement for pilots will be of the order of 1,800 over the next two years. The supply of Airline Transport Pilot Licences every year in Australia is less than 400.
“It is obvious that the major carriers will not allow their brand new jets to sit idle on the tarmac. They will do everything they can to fill up the shortfall by raiding the regional airlines, general aviation, flying schools and specialist organisations like the Royal Flying Doctor Service, something they have already started doing in earnest. Of particular concern will be the loss of experienced flying instructors to the airlines.”
Davis says the smaller airlines will be badly hurt as they cannot match the salaries and conditions of the larger carriers, claiming that over the past three months more than 20% of Saab 340 operator Rex’s pilots have been poached by Virgin Blue, Jetstar and Qantas.
Rex recently announced it is establishing a cadet pilot training programme. Davis also says he hopes the Australian Government will provide subsidies for cockpit crew training.
“Rex has done all it could and we call on the Government to respond to this looming crisis by urgently implementing similar bold and decisive measures,” says Davis.
“The high cost of flying training, estimated at around A$80,000 ($71,000) per individual, is the main reason why there are not enough commercial pilots being produced today.
If the Government can subsidise the education of lawyers, accountants, engineers and other professionals, surely it can recognise that the piloting profession is equally worthy of assistance. Today there is not even a fee loan scheme outside of the tertiary institutions that aspiring pilots can tap into to turn their passion to reality.”
By Nicholas Ionides
Australia’s Regional Express (Rex) is warning of a “looming catastrophic shortage” of pilots in the country and has called on the Australian Government to provide subsidies for training.
Rex says in a statement that it expects a pilot shortage in Australia “will turn into a crisis in 12 months’ time as demand by the larger airlines intensifies to cope with their unprecedented expansion plans”.
Dominant domestic operators Qantas Airways and subsidiary Jetstar are expanding rapidly, as is competitor Virgin Blue. Singapore-based low-cost carrier Tiger Airways is also in the process of establishing a domestic operation in Australia.
“Already some airlines are struggling to find enough pilots to crew their regular schedules and many are resorting to cancelling flights to cope with the situation. The Rex cancellation rate, for example, is now running at four times historical levels.
The latest (Department of Transport and Regional Services) statistics, which are for July, show Rex with 0.9% of flights cancelled, Qantas at 1.6%, QantasLink at 1%, Virgin at 1.1% and Jetstar at 0.3%,” says Rex chief of staff Jim Davis.
“However the situation is predicted to get much worse. Based on industry feedback, we estimate that the net additional requirement for pilots will be of the order of 1,800 over the next two years. The supply of Airline Transport Pilot Licences every year in Australia is less than 400.
“It is obvious that the major carriers will not allow their brand new jets to sit idle on the tarmac. They will do everything they can to fill up the shortfall by raiding the regional airlines, general aviation, flying schools and specialist organisations like the Royal Flying Doctor Service, something they have already started doing in earnest. Of particular concern will be the loss of experienced flying instructors to the airlines.”
Davis says the smaller airlines will be badly hurt as they cannot match the salaries and conditions of the larger carriers, claiming that over the past three months more than 20% of Saab 340 operator Rex’s pilots have been poached by Virgin Blue, Jetstar and Qantas.
Rex recently announced it is establishing a cadet pilot training programme. Davis also says he hopes the Australian Government will provide subsidies for cockpit crew training.
“Rex has done all it could and we call on the Government to respond to this looming crisis by urgently implementing similar bold and decisive measures,” says Davis.
“The high cost of flying training, estimated at around A$80,000 ($71,000) per individual, is the main reason why there are not enough commercial pilots being produced today.
If the Government can subsidise the education of lawyers, accountants, engineers and other professionals, surely it can recognise that the piloting profession is equally worthy of assistance. Today there is not even a fee loan scheme outside of the tertiary institutions that aspiring pilots can tap into to turn their passion to reality.”
(Btw, it is Qantas not Quantas)
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When Australia needed doctors, nurses, vets, engineers etc., they came to SA to fetch some.
Why will it be different for pilots?
Australia will be a lot more attractive than the Middle East! I bet a few SA pilots, now in the ME will also be willing to go to Oz.............
For managers of SA airlines:
Not only are the red lights flashing, the bells are surely ringing!
Why will it be different for pilots?
Australia will be a lot more attractive than the Middle East! I bet a few SA pilots, now in the ME will also be willing to go to Oz.............
For managers of SA airlines:
Not only are the red lights flashing, the bells are surely ringing!
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Aus. situation
Hey there everyone.
Lots of work going in Aus.Biggest hastle seems to be salaries which everybody here believes to be too low(except management).Airline salaries are pretty good but GA not so hot.If anyone is thinking of coming over keep a look out on The Department of Immigration and Multicultural Affairs website(DIMA)The Government have included AME's on the points award list and there are rumours that pilots will follow soon.If you come over with an ATPL you will have to wright COMM law,IREX(instrument rating) and ATP law,a COMM flight test and Instrument flight test for a full Aus ATP.
Good luck.
Lots of work going in Aus.Biggest hastle seems to be salaries which everybody here believes to be too low(except management).Airline salaries are pretty good but GA not so hot.If anyone is thinking of coming over keep a look out on The Department of Immigration and Multicultural Affairs website(DIMA)The Government have included AME's on the points award list and there are rumours that pilots will follow soon.If you come over with an ATPL you will have to wright COMM law,IREX(instrument rating) and ATP law,a COMM flight test and Instrument flight test for a full Aus ATP.
Good luck.
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have included AME's on the points award list and there are rumours that pilots will follow soon.If you come over with an ATPL
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There is no way of transferring an overseas engineer qualification so have to start from scratch in AU which takes years.
An ATPL on the other hand is considerably easier and can be achieved in a few months and not cost too much. CPL to CPL is also not that bad.
Qantas short of crews? HUH?
They all but stopped recruitment in 2005 and 2006, due to the delay in the A380. Now that A380 is arriving soon there is a lot of movement in QF and recruitment in 07 has kicked off in a big way. They still have a active hold file (awaiting employment start date) in the hundreds so doubt greatly that they will be looking elsewhere for crews.
Some of the regional’s and larger charter operators are a different story however. REX, MAC*IR and PAPSLEY Group are loosing crews to the bigger operators. WHY I hear you ask. Well the pays are bad and not improving, some even going backwards. Duty days have got longer. Days off have reduced. Rest periods have been reduced. Quality of life has gone down. Cost of living has gone up. They have introduced paying for ratings and again for upgrades (AUD$30k/R182K for metro and up to AUD$35/R212k for Braz and DHC8). Some companies require you to pay for part of rating and then bond for 3 years and AUD$30k. Bonds if applied are between 2 and 6 years and are not reduced to the end of every 12 months not monthly. Some have a condition of 3 months notice to quit.
So yes there is a shortage of pilots in Australia that are willing to work for companies like these. I hear that at least one company in AU has been approved to hire crews for their DHC8 from Canada, UK and South Africa only so send those resumes in if you want to come to Australia. Just remember though there are reasons why Aussies wont take the job but instead go overseas to work.
An ATPL on the other hand is considerably easier and can be achieved in a few months and not cost too much. CPL to CPL is also not that bad.
Qantas short of crews? HUH?
They all but stopped recruitment in 2005 and 2006, due to the delay in the A380. Now that A380 is arriving soon there is a lot of movement in QF and recruitment in 07 has kicked off in a big way. They still have a active hold file (awaiting employment start date) in the hundreds so doubt greatly that they will be looking elsewhere for crews.
Some of the regional’s and larger charter operators are a different story however. REX, MAC*IR and PAPSLEY Group are loosing crews to the bigger operators. WHY I hear you ask. Well the pays are bad and not improving, some even going backwards. Duty days have got longer. Days off have reduced. Rest periods have been reduced. Quality of life has gone down. Cost of living has gone up. They have introduced paying for ratings and again for upgrades (AUD$30k/R182K for metro and up to AUD$35/R212k for Braz and DHC8). Some companies require you to pay for part of rating and then bond for 3 years and AUD$30k. Bonds if applied are between 2 and 6 years and are not reduced to the end of every 12 months not monthly. Some have a condition of 3 months notice to quit.
So yes there is a shortage of pilots in Australia that are willing to work for companies like these. I hear that at least one company in AU has been approved to hire crews for their DHC8 from Canada, UK and South Africa only so send those resumes in if you want to come to Australia. Just remember though there are reasons why Aussies wont take the job but instead go overseas to work.
Pilot shortage in Oz - Not really
From someone on the spot.......
There is not a shortage of pilots in Australia, just a shortage of pilots willing to accept what is on offer.
Fly around Africa, Asia or Europe and you will hear plenty of Aussie accents. When the pay improves at home, they will return.
No different to South Africa really.
There is not a shortage of pilots in Australia, just a shortage of pilots willing to accept what is on offer.
Fly around Africa, Asia or Europe and you will hear plenty of Aussie accents. When the pay improves at home, they will return.
No different to South Africa really.
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Strange that the Auzzies working in the ME are not racing back home to help out with the pilot shortage - maybe taking a 50% pay cut has something to do with it
!!!
Still, I am sure that their will be no shortage of applicants who are willing to work for peanuts - especially from the southern tip of Africa!
!!! Still, I am sure that their will be no shortage of applicants who are willing to work for peanuts - especially from the southern tip of Africa!
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“The high cost of flying training, estimated at around A$80,000 ($71,000) per individual, is the main reason why there are not enough commercial pilots being produced today.
Pay more, the problem will go away. Not been 'down under' for a while, but property is crazy there and so is the tax.
Oldie, but a goodie, "Australia is a great place, just WAY too many Aussies."
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Pilot Shortage in Australia
Easy cowboys. Before you all go attaching corks to your hats, might want to check in with the Australian Immigration Department. Yes, Australia is in need of pilots, and yes pilots were on the Skills Occupation List (SOL) in 2005. But to prevent foriegn crews from taking promotion away from charter/ turbo-prop pilots to the majors, the australian goverment will only accept foreign pilots who are willing to come fly for charter companies or turbo-prop airlines. This is why pilots are only on the ENSOL list (employer sponsered skills occupation list). In this way the Aus government can control which airlines can accept foreigners. And at this stage they are only allowing charter / flying doctor type operations to do this.
Also, one of the big reason for the shortage is the number of crews leaving for the Middle East!
Also, one of the big reason for the shortage is the number of crews leaving for the Middle East!
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Moving to Oz
Those two were white cadets. the thanks SAA gets for all the training , is to leave.
That system was set up for the previously disadvantaged. Believe me they they were not disadvantaged.
That system was set up for the previously disadvantaged. Believe me they they were not disadvantaged.
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STUBBIES I assure you Australia will sort out there pilot shortage, why because they are progressive and know where to look, if they even hint at coming to find pilots at SAA (or SA for that matter) I assure you SAA will not know what hit them.
I know the pay is not great, but I will happily come to Australia and live in a country where my children have some hope.
I know the pay is not great, but I will happily come to Australia and live in a country where my children have some hope.
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DuckingFast yes he did, but things are possibly changing, if you go online and look at the list of jobs that give you points you will notice that Pilot is not there.....and you then get -100 points for putting "my job is not listed"
I hear that is all about to change and Pilot will be worth 60 points quite soon
I hear that is all about to change and Pilot will be worth 60 points quite soon
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I am an old toppie, ex pilot, ex SAA (not pilot), still working in the aviation industry, thanks to the pilot shortage which has filtered through to other aspects of the aviation industry.
My son (not a pilot, well educated and a very good job) and his family live in Sydney, they just love it and so do I. My visa application is in, waiting and counting!
And you know what; there is no discrimination against age and other things. I am looking forward to working for many years in an occupation that has always been my passion.
As Fluffyfan says, SAA will not know what hit them if a chance to go to Australia becomes easier.
Good luck to you all!
My son (not a pilot, well educated and a very good job) and his family live in Sydney, they just love it and so do I. My visa application is in, waiting and counting!
And you know what; there is no discrimination against age and other things. I am looking forward to working for many years in an occupation that has always been my passion.
As Fluffyfan says, SAA will not know what hit them if a chance to go to Australia becomes easier.
Good luck to you all!
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Whenwe,
Good luck with your decision to leave, I'm sure you have thought about it thoroughly.
But, why is it that so many still opt to stay (given the (perceived) negativity displayed by certain groups). Read this past sunday's business times' article on worldwide executive pay scales...and all will make more sense!
So the eternal question of life still goes abegging: "why is the grass greener?".....
Good luck with your decision to leave, I'm sure you have thought about it thoroughly.
But, why is it that so many still opt to stay (given the (perceived) negativity displayed by certain groups). Read this past sunday's business times' article on worldwide executive pay scales...and all will make more sense!
So the eternal question of life still goes abegging: "why is the grass greener?".....