ops or crewing - which is harder ?

[dada]

wondered what you think. is ops a harder and more responsible job than crewing or is it the other way around ? ops and crewing people are often paid similar salaries but sometimes the difference can swing either way depending on what the particular company considers to be the more skilled role.
(not being a crewing person)i believe their
job to be the lesser as in my opinion they either have a crew (or can find one) and that crew can either do it or they can't. ops people on the other hand often call on their experience to make a decision which can be drawn from any number of possibilities they can find within their own flying programme.

[ops]

In our company ops are probably seen to have the most responsibilty. As for workloads I personally think that crewings will always generally be higher especially when things go wrong. For example when ops have to swap aircraft around if one goes tech it takes them 2 mins to swap them around but for every aircraft strip they move we have on average 9 crew to move. Having said that I've witnessed the ops people tearing their hair out when there having a nightmare with slots, and we could be sat there with our feet up! swings and roundabouts!

[vipero]

crewing is hard when you have to dial with people that want to fly with certain members, people that do not want to fly with certain members, people asking for more rest, for less rest, for that particular flight, for not making that particular flight..That's why automatic systems are still not fully able to manage crewing, and why crewing staff are so precious :D

Ciao
Paolo

[Mr Angry from Purley]

Dada

Who generally sleeps on nights shifts and who does not?

I know a lot of Ops guys that started in Crewing but ended up in Ops, anyone go from Ops to Crewing?

Who are two a penny and who are very hard to find?

You make me so Angry!!!

:mad:

[lalapanzi]

Now before everyone erupts into a slanging match vv whose better, remember dada likes nothing more than to wind people up - just check his profile :rolleyes:

Anyway why should one persons job be any harder/better/more demanding than anothers?
It's back to that old thing called 'team-work' ;)

Now don't forget there are still those companys that have combined ops/crewing. So when you have a problem you own all of the problem not just your part.

Let the slanging commence
:D

[dada]

and no-one winds me (and others up) like lala.

[Doctor Cruces]

In smaller airlines that I have seen, Ops have to sort out the problems crewing have not seen/addressed before they go home at 1700 daily, and Fridays thru 0900 Mondays.

Doc C.

ps. Not that it makes people bitter and twisted of course!

[lalapanzi]

DC - and lets not overlook the problems ops cause crewing because they had difficulty following simple rules, or just not telling them what they had done til it's too late to prevent. :eek:


Dada - now thats just too bad :p

[Doctor Cruces]

lala,

Yaeh, there is that too. But if the UK had properly licenced etc etc etc etc.......

Doc C.

[lalapanzi]

Oh dear back to that old chestnut - if only we were licenced then we would be capable of doing a half decent job!! Why - is your company's training not up to a standard to enable you to do your job?? :D

Rostering - another group of under valued people http://www.3dpcgames.com/cwm/s/contrib/dvv/bash.gif
Ghoust-rider interesting anology. Cause ops staff never mis-file flight plans, send signals to the wrong stations, these things just don't happen. http://www.themelee.com/smilies/s/contrib/corky/corkysm62.gif

[ghost-rider]

Lala - yep we make mistakes too. I'll freely admit that. :(

And to be honest - this is a pointless thread because as you said - it is teamwork that makes it all gel together. :rolleyes: Ops can't work without crewing and vice-versa.

[ 30 July 2001: Message edited by: ghost-rider ]

[walla]

Hi guy's and girl's,
I have an interview for easyjet crewing coming up,has anyone got any pointers.
IE:Is there a test paper what does it consist off.Salary,shift patterns etc.
Yes before anyone suggests it i will read up on cap371,anything else ?
And yes i am ops but i also do crewing as part of my day to day routine so i would like to find out what crewing is like on a permenant basis.

cheers in advance
Walla

33c outside and i am stuck in a ops room. Nice :D :cool:

[ghost-rider]

Walla - good luck. :cool:

Shift patterns are combinations of 2days/3nights/5off, 3days/2nights/4off, 2days/2nights/5off or similar. 12hr shifts.

Salary is commensurate with quals and experience - we've just moved away from the 'crewing officer earns x amount, crewing controller earns x amount' etc. It's all graded now on the above criteria (ish).

CAP371 and JAR Ops should be essential night-time reading for you. ;)

BTW - if you get the job you'll be stuck in an ops rm with the temp 33 deg INSIDE the ops rm !! :eek:

[ 29 July 2001: Message edited by: ghost-rider ]

[Cat-Club]

:cool: The future's bright, but it ain't orange ;)

[lalapanzi]

Ghost-rider how do you issue an illegal roster, or crews on wrong type? Thought you had the best computer system on the market, or is my aim off! :)

Walla - good luck with the interview. Enjoy the reading, and just be yourself.

[Orangewing]

lalapanzi, they can issue an illegal roster by simply overriding the parameters set into the system. The system in use is a very good one,it's just a shame no-one in the company knows how to use it to its full potential.I know this, because I have to fly the rosters they produce!!
Walla, best of luck with the interview,if you just tell them that you hate / resent Pilots,then the job is yours!!!!
(ps you don't have to be accountable either! Great,innit?!) :D :D

[fullthrottle]

now now, lets not be nasty about easy's rostering department - you have to accept mistakes when they only come in and work 3 hours a day (and that includes lunch)!?

after all, would we in ops and crewing have anything to do if we didnt have to keep picking up after their mess? oh yes, we are supposed to run the program arent we?

[Wibbly P]

I would have enjoyed being a Crew Controller more if all the other Crew Controllers hadn't been retired or pregnant Cabin Crew, who didn't have any interest in aviation. This is not to say they weren't good at what they did, but if they weren't moaning about each other (In a Sybil Fawlty "ooh I Know" kind of way) then they were moaning about me.

The Ops staff however were a lot more interested in the industry and had stories galore to while away night shifts. Though sometimes they were a bit too spotterish.

From my time as a crew controller I would say that we had to work harder than the Ops Staff, BUT the Ops job was a better job overall. CAP 371 is not at all interesting.

Occasionally we used to have to massage the crews computer system roster to avoid a pilot hitting a weekly or monthly maximum.

WP

P.S
Did any of you used to work for Calidonian?

[JB007]

I find Crewing these days is more of politics than anything else...i.e
I'm amazed at how crew attitudes have changed over the years...and this has a big impact on how easy/hard the crewing job is made!

Although I haven't really been activley involved in any sort of Operations Room scenario for quite a few months, the old charactures just don't seem to be around anymore. I'm talking about guys with backgrounds in great airlines like Dan-Air or Air Europe, I suppose most have retired but they seem to have been replaced by the next generation of Pilots - and some, not all, are the biggest "pansies" i've ever come across...

You still find the odd few that want to help out when things are pear shaped or have a great attitude to the job but the overall discipline of things has really fallen...

a)Crew Time Keeping
b)Not coming for changes after flights..
c)Sickness levels
d)Claiming fatique after a few sectors (when he/she actually live 100 miles from the A/pt!)

Maybe these all sound a bit petty but they make a big difference to the poor Crewing guys/gals. Looking back at the good old days of Excalibur at EMA..god, we didn't know how lucky we were!!! I've never experianced a Crew and Crewing relationship anywhere else like it...

As someone who is about to enter the Pilot fraternity, i'm glad I've had these experiances along the way, alot of lessons learn't.

Maybe i'm just asking too much...is it just me ? Any other Crewing Depts. care to tell ?

Wibbly P,
I was with CKT in 1991/92.

[ 30 July 2001: Message edited by: JB007 ]

[Ustar]

I have worked in both an OPS and Crewing position with various airlines. In my opinion Crewing is definately the hardest position between the two positions. As a Crewing Officer you have to deal with the Trolley Dolley's and they make the devil look good.

[Disruptive]

Crewing have always been the poor relations to Operations in both pay and working environment. Crewing is THE black art and can be tremendously difficult. "We need a crew for the blah, blah", shouts the ops controller, as he/she puts his/her feet up waiting for the miracle to happen, and as frquentely happens, no SBY's. So the old boy network swings into operation as the the crewing person rings round to dig up a crew from somewhere. Definately in my opinion the most undervalued dept of any airline !!!!!!

[walla]

Hi Guy's and Girl's
Thanks for all the info passed with reference to the easyjet interview.It is my first day back on shift otherwise i would have thanked you all sooner.

I'm glad i never had the chance to read the replies before i went for the interview,otherwise i might have been persuaded not to attend.

I have just got one question,: why the downer on easyjet crewing,is it really that bad and bitchy ?

Cheers
Walla :(

[ 03 August 2001: Message edited by: walla ]

[fullthrottle]

crewing isnt bitchy at all mate and the NMC is probably the only department in this airline that has the first idea about what is going on. as a result there is a great bunch of guys and gals that work in here but the pressures and attitudes of other departments make it a very difficult job sometimes. if you are prepared to work for it, there are plenty of opportunities at easy but just remember the airline is run by marketing managers who think we only operate 9-5, 5 days a week!

[ 03 August 2001: Message edited by: fullthrottle ]

[walla]

I know what you mean,i work in ops for a GA firm and it is exactly the same.
Thats why i thought that i would apply for easyjet.
Hopefully i will get a position but i dont know how many are vacanies there are. :cool:

[fullthrottle]

I heard 1 senior and 2 officers but i dont know for sure. Maybe see you soon. Good luck.

[walla]

Thats good to Know.
I think we should find out sometime next week if are successfull or not and the start date is september.
And yes maybe see you soon.Is this the start of your 12h shift or the end ?
Walla :rolleyes:

[Cat-Club]

;) Walla - Don't go there. Like I said before, the future is bright, but IT IS NOT ORANGE :rolleyes: If you enjoy being back stabbed by so called Supervisors, hey fill ya boots :p

What ever you decide to do, good luck with it. It could be worse. You could stay in GA :eek:

[walla]

cat-club
cheers for the heads up, i have been offered another position at stansted however i would like to get into an airline and out of GA for good.
:eek:

[harmony]

:p Hmmm Gold or Orange isn’t that a question the Irish fight over in relation to their flag. :p

[Cat-Club]

;) Walla - so presumably this new job at Standstill is not with an airline !! Have you tried Forklift Cargo? They might be looking for Ops bods to fill the boots of those that resigned :rolleyes: Come to think about it, Fed Ex might be recruiting for Ops types too :cool:

[fullthrottle]

walla,

if you get the job and you want some structured career progression, and if you work for it you can virtually guarantee an 11% pay increase per year, then accept it. make your own mind up about the people. the ones in this office are great, but as i said the ones outside are a waste of space.

[walla]

Cat-club no it is not an airline it is a another aviation company but i cannot elaborate any further sorry.

fullthrottle,
yes i am after progressing my career and i am looking for a good company to work for.
I am not easily persuaded and i don't take any cr*p from people that **** stir.
Hopefully i will get the position and we can all be one big happy family. ;)

[harmony]

:) :D ;) :p :cool: :D :eek: :p

[walla]

Harmony,
Your all smiles whats up ? are you happy in your job? :confused:

[harmony]

Just Happy wi mi 5 days off……….mmmmmm this is why we work these ungodly hours.....


:) :o :D ;) :p :cool: :eek: :)

[ghost-rider]

Cat-Club,

What makes you an "expert" on EZY then ??

[Cat-Club]

Ghost-Rider - who said I was an expert :rolleyes: Lets just say that the mentality within hasn't changed since day 1. It's just that the knife has been sharpened a wee bit :eek: After speaking face to face with "Tanker Man" I rapidly decided that orange wasn't my favourite colour. Arrogant and ignorant are two mild words

If the face fits - you've been tangoed :p

Life is brighter on the outside :D

[ghost-rider]

Arrogant and ignorant eh ? Hmm ! Is that aimed at me or "Tanker Man" ( whoever he is ) ?

I can see why you've called yourself 'Cat' ! Someone spit in your saucer of milk by any chance ?

[ 06 August 2001: Message edited by: ghost-rider ]

[walla]

Ghost-rider + CC
I,m sorry i asked about easyjet,i did not mean to cause any uproar but it is fun to read.

Smile :D

[Cat-Club]

:eek: ghost-rider - that was not aimed at you. No, "Tanker Man" is the one with the dosho who likes buying new planes. And no, there is no spit in my saucer, just didn't fancy being tangoed that's all. :o

Orange clashes with my blue eyes anyway :rolleyes:

"Happiness is LTN in a rain storm"

[ghost-rider]

Walla - it's good for a giggle :D

As stated before ( and ignore all the drivel on this thread :rolleyes: ) good luck. Let us know how you get on.

CC - War over ! ;)

[Orangewing]

Erm, why do easyJet insist on giving all their crewing assistants and supervisors the rank of Officer??? Easy is a good company to work for,but it IS run, as stated earlier, by marketing w*****s who don't have a clue.
Ops staff seem ok ( from a Pilot's point of view) but crewing and rostering are just a complete waste of space, whose sole intention is to screw up the lives of Pilots and generally be as un-cooperative as possible. :rolleyes:

[ladyboy]

There are some of us that perform all three roles - Ops,crewing and dispatch - and when things go wrong there is no-one to pass the buck to!!

[Disruptive]

LadyBoy....how many aircraft in your fleet, one!!!!!!Jetstream, 2 pilots and 1 cabin crew!!!!!! :eek:

[boxjockey99]

I work in ops and am forced at times to have to do some crewing work as our crewing dept isn't 24 hrs (YET!!). I think crewing have perfected the art of making a relatively simple task look incredibly complex by means of the most un user friendly software in the world EVER!!

Ops is a doddle most of the time but when it all goes to rat-s**t, that's when we earn our money. I know on a wekend we spend a lot of time picking up he pieces from route services and pretty much don't do any ops type work as we spend all our time organising hotac etc.

Yes crewing has it's difficulties due to regulations and all that lark but it would seem that it isn't half made a meal of by those responsible for it so the impression of incredible complexity is put across to the point when new ops people arrive we think it is a black art!! :D

[ladyboy]

Good one!
actually no. The company fleet consists of 4x 737, 6x ATP and 1x 757
But remember if it wasn't for my airline, you would have problems that you wouldn't want to imagine!!

[walla]

Ghost-rider,
Just to keep you posted i did get the easyjet job and i start in September.
Walla :D :D :D

[HORACE ONTALL]

Congratulations WALLA, At least you'll be able to put your feet up now you're in Crewing.I wish I had an easy job with no grief like that. :cool:

[walla]

Horrace ontall,
Cheers mate. :cool:

[mutt]

Walla, congratulations :)

Would you mind telling us what the starting salary is?

Thanks.

Mutt :)

[harmony]

Mutt..
Thats like asking a lady how old she is.. :confused: :eek:

[walla]

MUTT,
Sorry buddy, but as Harmony says it,s like asking a lady how old she is.
Just lets say it's less than i wanted but enought to get by for the time being.
I was willing to take a drop in salary to move to an airline and i have . :( :confused:
;)

[ 14 August 2001: Message edited by: walla ]

[ghost-rider]

Good news Walla, see you soon.

[walla]

Ghost-Rider,
Yes see you soon, Is this the start of your shift pattern?
Walla

[ghost-rider]

Yep ! First of 2 days, then 3 nights ! :rolleyes: