Training VS real life

[Beaver diver]

OK guys ,a lot of things learned and reviewed. Since I have started the "Inverted C172" thread I will finish it or actually start in the same manor with a few juicy questions that we're never described in any POH or explained to us at the time when we we're still "student pilots" regarding everyday flying. No steam, just some of the most asked questions around...Some of the questions are;
1.) How does the plane react and is the recovering procedure the same as the training one if you are stalling with 4 people on board and max baggage?
= Answer: I don't know ( usualy you are in the plane with your instructor and no passengers or baggage)
2.) How does the plane react in a full flap config stall while carying 4 people (C172) and max baggage while on 500 feet final?
= Answer: I am confused (usualy you do this exercises on 3000 feet plus...)
3.) They say that some of the airplanes are not "Spin" authorised; does that means that If I inadvertently end up in a spin, I can't recover the airplane or do they just say ;"Well, If it brakes apart while recovering it It is your fault since we have said it is not made to do any spins???"
= Answer; I hope I will never end up in a spin...

There are many more things that I would like to explore and get answers to, but for now, let's believe that C172 can't make a barrel roll, can't be "spinned", can't stall at 500 feet with full load and lets believe to the POH references. Anyways It is the safest bet for all of us.

[FlyingForFun]

1) Exactly the same, but at a slightly higher speed. (The speeds in the manual are for the maximum weight. With just you+instructor - assuming you are not at maximum weight with just the two of you - you should stall at a slower speed than that given in the manual.)

2) The aircraft does not know it's at 500', and will behave exactly the same way as it would at 3000'. Whether you'll respond the same way is a different question - although if you've been well trained, your response should be automatic whatever height you're at.

3) It could mean either. Some aircraft will not recover from a spin. Others have characteristics of either the spin or the recovery which are considered undesirable. Others, the manufacturers didn't design them with spinning in mind, so they haven't undergone enough testing to know whether they can be spun safely or not.let's believe that C172 can't make a barrel roll, can't be "spinned", can't stall at 500 feet with full load and lets believe to the POH referencesThe barrel roll is being discussed in another thread, but I don't think anyone ever said it can't be done, just that most people say it shouldn't. Spinning is approved in many C172s but only with the w+b in certain limits (the "utility category") - check your POH. And I don't think anyone's ever said that an aircraft can't be stalled at 500', just that it's not the best place to practice stalling.

FFF
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[Whopity]

Before the aircraft gets a C of A it will have been flown by a test pilot to ensure that it does all the right things right up to the limitations and a little beyond. The idea being that if you invertantly make a total pigs of it then the machine will still recover if you take the correct action.

Training is designed to teach you to recognise the onset of conditions that you are hoping to avoid, so that you will get nowhere near them in normal flight. The conditions for practicing these things invariably includes more stringent limits and safety margins so that recovery can be safely demonstrated and practiced.

[DFC]

1. Recovery from a stall is done by reducing the angle of attack. remember that and you will never ask the question again unless you find yourself way outside the Loading limits of the aircraft.

2. Do the exercise at 3000ft plus and check your loss of altitude in a recovery at the incipient stage. After all, are you really going to ignore all the symptoms of an approaching stall when close to the ground. Just in case you are, complete a full stall and recovery at 3000ft plus and again note the loss of height. With the weight at MOTW, you will not loose more height (that is mostly down to practice, ability and currency) you simply will not climb away as quickly.

3. The aircraft is not approved for intentional spinning because the extra spin testing required during certification was not completed or if it was, the aircraft has since been modified to a point where the test would need to be repeated but have not been done. The difference in time, effort, risk and cost is significant just to get "intentional spinning" approval and on an aircraft that is designed as a GA light tourer/basic training aircraft it is simply not worth it.

All the performance figures relating to the stall in your aircraft are related to max take-off weight and with the C of G in the most adverse position.

Regards,

DFC

[Andy_RR]

All the performance figures relating to the stall in your aircraft are related to max take-off weight and with the C of G in the most adverse position.
Regards,
DFC

...except the figures don't tell the whole story.

A conventional aircraft will stall at a slower speed at its most rearward CoG. Great, you say! The rub is that at rear CoG the control force gradient is at its least, meaning that unintentional stalling is at its most likely.

The most forward CoG postion will increase the stall speed, but also increase the control force gradient, so an unintentional stall will require more of a ham fist.

A

[sternone]

3.) They say that some of the airplanes are not "Spin" authorised; does that means that If I inadvertently end up in a spin, I can't recover the airplane or do they just say ;"Well, If it brakes apart while recovering it It is your fault since we have said it is not made to do any spins???"
= Answer; I hope I will never end up in a spin...

First of all, i hope you end up in a spin... during your training and do spin recovery training like i had.. it's the best training you can get!!!! If they don't teach you, ask them if they will!!

Secondly, like the Cirrus, it's not spin certified and the POH of Cirrus states that you need to pull the parachute to get out of the spin... says enough to me ahum...

[glider10]

Could I suggest you find a local gliding club and ask about spin training as where I fly you need to be current in spin recovery to be allowed to flyhttp://www.pprune.org/forums/images/icons/mpangel.gif

[Pilot DAR]

For "Normal" and "Utility" category aircraft, it is a design requirement that it not be possible to create an unrecoverable spin with any use of the controls. That does not mean though, that it might not get very exciting for a while, while you loose a lot of altitude very quickly...

FAR Part 23.221 is worth a read...

Pilot DAR

[mm_flynn]

If you are a member of AOPA US here (http://www.aopa.org/members/files/pilot/2007/prof0701.html) is an interesting article. The essence of which is fully loaded and aft CG will have a lower deck angle, less pull needed and more push needed in recovery than you will have experienced in training. This is particularly noticeable in departure stalls and accelerated stalls.