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View Full Version : Can an A330 t/o and land in GSE??


Robini
3rd Oct 2007, 20:34
Hello everybody :ok:
This is my first post in this forum...
And my question is can an A330 takeoff and land in GSE
(the runway is about 2000 m long or 6560 feet) in the winter??
I think about flights wich will have about 5-6 hours flight time.
itīs just a normal winterday ( 0 degrees,15 knots headwind and
a pressure of 1120 hpa).

//Robin

javelin
3rd Oct 2007, 21:11
Lordy, at 1120 hpa, your ears would be popping !

Answer - yes

Practically - no

Too many variables, the performance would be marginal, particularly when you look at contaminated runways in the winter.

Robini
3rd Oct 2007, 21:15
Oh, sorry i mean 1020 hpa ;)
Do you think it would work then??

javelin
3rd Oct 2007, 21:55
Not really !

request deferred
3rd Oct 2007, 22:00
What about from Narita 16L/34R 2200 m for a 7:15 flight to Oz? Looking for facts please people, not speculation or opinions :} A330-200

jtr
3rd Oct 2007, 22:25
Show me a 330 that can get to somewhere you would want to go in OZ in 7:15 and I will get back to you with cold hard facts

<In short, No, except maybe stripped bare and a 40kt headwind>

Veruka Salt
3rd Oct 2007, 22:58
Show me a 330 that can get to OZ in 7:15. . . .
. . . I think request deferred is talking about NRT - CNS. We used to do it in the 767 in 7:15. Not sure though whether an A330 could get off the short runway in NRT for a flight of that length.

request deferred
5th Oct 2007, 21:46
The answer is yes, and easily. There is 10000kg left over for additional freight/fuel. Figures worked out by performance engineering A330.

And I was referring to NRT-CNS when I originally said NRT-CNS!!!! How did you misinterpret that??!!

Robini
7th Oct 2007, 13:27
But, A330-200 from MyTravel operates from a 2100 m runway (6888 feet)
in Sweden (VXO). The flight goes to HKT via SHJ.
VXO-SHJ is 2580 nm (4778 km) and how is that possible??
No Cargo maybe??

Robini
7th Oct 2007, 19:54
Somebody who knows??

Robini
7th Oct 2007, 21:45
How much cargo do MyTravel have on a 5-6 hours flight??
I can think it would be much less cargo when operates from a
2100m runway than a 3000 m runway...
Please write if i have wrong!

Robini
8th Oct 2007, 17:48
javelin: Are you an Airbus pilot??

Cavallier
9th Oct 2007, 08:04
I agree about Narita 16L/34R 2200 m. It is a bit dicey for us performance wise even on a 4 hour flight back to Hong Kong.

request deferred
9th Oct 2007, 22:06
I had a quick look at VXO/Smaland and it's altitude is higher @ 610' than nrt. Narita has no terrain off the runway splays and is slightly longer than VXO. These differences seem small but have a major effect on performance. e.g. engine failure at V1 aircraft has to be able to clear terrain after becoming airborne so sometimes this limits the actual take-off weight even though the airframe/engines can support a higher weight.
Also the engines may not be as higher a rating of thrust. My data is based on GE (67,500 to 75,000 lb) but suspect the A330-200 RR has less thrust (67,500 and 71,000 ).
Cheers;)
p.s. are you basing VXO data on 'config 3'?
p.p.s. some more info, My Travel A330-200 are RR therefore 4000lbs less thrust and 360 seats :eek:, the A330-200 I worked on has 303 seats and GE powered......mystery solved :8

Robini
9th Oct 2007, 22:24
Do you think the A333 from MyTravel ( 405 seats) can takeoff from
VXO on a flight around 6 hours??
Do the A333 comes closer to its MTOW than the A332 ??
Please write if i have wrong!

blackmail
9th Oct 2007, 22:45
hello everyone,

in our airfield brief for gse it is mentioned that although the pavement classification number(pcn) is low, local authorities do not impose any weight restrictions on our b737-800ng operations. so my guess is that for an a-330, there might indeed be a problem in addition to the short runway.
kind regards,
bm,

request deferred
10th Oct 2007, 00:16
In regards to the A333 it is a worse case scenario than the A332 because the aircraft is bigger,heavier than the A332 with the same engines i.e. more weight same thrust = poorer performance. A six hr flight with 400+ pax ( geez you guys must be real skinny in the Northern hemisphere :ooh:) I would guess from a 2100m runway you would be looking at 5:30 to 6 hrs range max.

A333 is just not the aircraft for max load/ short runway operations. B767, A332 are designed for such ops.

Hope this helps.

Robini
10th Oct 2007, 09:15
So you mean that the B767,A332 is made for short runways while
the A333 is not??
Is this the reason why VKG always use A332 on the short runways (in sweden on the cold winters) for a flighttime about 6 hours??

request deferred
10th Oct 2007, 10:42
Yes.

The power to weight ratio is always better with a twin jet than a three or four holer ( must be able to fly away with an engine failure at the most critical point on the take-off (V1). Lose an engine on a 747 lose 25% of your power, lose an engine on a 767 lose 50% of your power...therefore twins have to be 'overpowered' as such )

A333 heavier but same thrust as a A332 therefore A333 has a poorer power to weight ratio than a A332

Think of a V8 engine in a VW Beetle versus a Hummer..... which will go faster up a hill...see my point now?:ok:

Robini
10th Oct 2007, 11:01
Thanks for the help :ok:
Let me guess you are working for Qantas A332 ??

request deferred
11th Oct 2007, 03:58
Nope, half right though:ok:

Antman
11th Oct 2007, 07:52
I'd say yes Ek operate DXB-NCL-DXB on the A332 RR engines. Flying time NCL DXB 0645-0720 depending on winds. Last time I did it we where off RWY 25 at NCL 2262m and flex in the 40's.

Robini
11th Oct 2007, 08:36
Yeah,but Emirates A332 only takes around 278 pax.
I guess that the weight is a very big factor...

Veruka Salt
11th Oct 2007, 09:45
request deferred said:

A333 heavier but same thrust as a A332 therefore A333 has a poorer power to weight ratio

The CF6 engines on the QF -300s are more powerful than the CF6s on their -200s. Not to say that the -200 doesn't still have a better power to weight ratio . . .

Incidentally, RR advertise the Trent772B as having the best "thrust to weight ratio" and "best takeoff and climb performance" for the A330. It's rated at 71100lb thrust. Go figure . . :hmm:

Clear as mud? Back to the discussion. . .

Robini
11th Oct 2007, 10:00
Yeah,thats true.

When the A332 took off from VXO she used about 1400 m ( 4592 feet)
of the runway she was going to SHJ and later continued to HKT...

Robini
11th Oct 2007, 13:53
Is it even safe to fly an A333 to GSE???
I mean is it possible that the plane continue out of the runway??
Beacause there are alots of horses at the end of rwy 01 :ok:...

And at GSE homepage it says that the biggest plane that can land
there is the B767,but the A332 is almost as big as the 767...

Robini
13th Oct 2007, 12:19
How short most the runway be for an A333 to use TOGA??
I mean i normal winterday and i flight of almost 6 h.

Robini
13th Oct 2007, 18:11
Iīve got one more question :ok:
When you takeoff is it true that you only can use 80% of the
runway length??
For ex. 2100*0,8= 1680 m
2000*0,8= 1680 m
Can an A333 lift off from such short length ( 6h flight time) ??

request deferred
13th Oct 2007, 21:05
With pax....no

Empty....yes

Robini
14th Oct 2007, 13:33
Yeah im with you.
But at ARN and its shortest rwy is 2500m and A333 gets pretty big problems there a warm summerday...
When im on GOT (3300 m runway) i always see A333 use about 2200m
of the runway,but i guess thats just a normal flex or assumed temp...
The landing would probably dont cause any bigger problems i think.
But if you land you must takeoff :ok:

And the final question is if VKG ( im a dreamer now :ok:) started their
operations to GSE (almost 2000m) could their A333 take any cargo on that
flight or??