group share question

[james747james]

Hi there, i know this has probably a stupid question but i have no idea!! How does a group share of an aircraft work? Do the people in the group have allocated time each month for flying it? wot about paying for your time in it.... who do you pay!??! and finally what is wet lease and dry lease?! remember i have no idea about alll this so be gentle!! :O

Many thanks

James :ok:

[foxmoth]

Many different ways of doing this (a search of the forums will bring up a few). The most common way is that each member pays for his share (basically if the aircraft is worth £30,000 then a 1/10th share will be £3,000), Each member then pays a monthly fee which covers standing costs (insurance/hangarage/engine fund etc) and then an hourly price on top of that to cover fuel/maintainance.
On our PFA 2 seater for example a 1/5th share is £3,000, monthly fees are £85/month and we pay £6/hr +fuel, you also need to add in landing fees. This means if I do 5 hours flying a month my flying costs me £56/hour if I include ALL costs such as interest on the share price and AVGAS price for fuel, If I put MOGAS in instead and do not worry about the interest then this comes down to £40/hour, at these prices it is surprising how few (certainly at Goodwood) are interested in joining! In theory, our group has a priority system for bookings, each member has a rotating week that it is "their" aircraft and other members go through that member before booking, in practice availability is so good that we have never needed to use this and it works on a first come first served basis, though if someone wants to take it for a few days then they will ask the rest of the group first.
Wet/Dry lease simply means with/without fuel so for a dry lease you take the aircraft with a set amount of fuel and return it in the same state, paying for the fuel you use while you have it.

[Cusco]

AS for flying a group aircraft: most groups have a web based booking system accessible to all members: Ours uses the hangar.co.uk system which costs about 50 squid per year: there are many more freebees but this suits us, and allows booking by the hour/half day or whole day or longer.

Many groups have huge numbers of rules which are written down and have to be signed by all members : others have gentlemens' agreements which are fine until one member decides to take the p*ss: for that reason selecting group members is important.

We have simple guidelines regarding the number of weekend or longer bookings that can be made , though any exceptions are usually freely agreed.
We share the upkeep of the strip/grass cutting/cleaning parties and it all , in our case, works very amicably.

Someone else will be along to post about the joys of ownership versus rental and from flying from dawn to dusk from an unlicensed strip as opposed to flying from an airfield flying school/club which shuts at 6pm which can be a real bind in the summer when there are still 3-4 hours flying left.

Safe flying

Cusco.;)

[robin]

Not a silly question at all. The reality is that each group agreement varies to suit the needs of the group. It's why, when looking at a share, you should always look very carefully at the group agreement in some detail.
Some groups do allocate specific dates for each member so there is a bit of a lottery about whether the weather will be suitable on your allocated date. However, most groups seem to limit the number of bookings a member can make in advance (ours allows 3 bookings in the diary at any time) so one member cannot hog the aircraft.
There is no real standard agreement as regards finance. Ours requires members to pay a monthly (to cover the fixed costs of CAA fees, hangarage, insurance and part of the annual maintenance) and a wet rate per hour to cover fuel and something in the pot for engine replacement. We also agre that in case of a major and unexpected expense, then we have to put our hands in our pockets.
Wet rate means that fuel and oil costs are included in the hourly rate, dry rate means you have to pay for your fuel on top. You still need to pay for fuel but this is offset against your flying bill.
The benefit of the wet rate is that you know how much an hour's flight will cost. The downside is that, as fuel prices vary, the cost to the group might suffer if a member always tops off at an expensive airfield, so some put a limit on the reimbursement.
Some groups insist on a high monthly (possibly incorporating 1 hour of flight) so as to build up a healthy bank balance - always a good thing.

Our agreement states that landing fees away from base are the responsibility of the pilot and not reimbursable - simple really. If we had to pay for our landings at our base, then this would be added to the cost of the flight for the pilot. Fortunately, for us, we pay no landing fees at the moment.

Group agreements should also include details of your responsibilities as a member, and must show how you can leave the group. Some don't, so don't go there!
In short, you should not just look at the advert for a group share. Ask around to see if anyone knows about the group, find out why a share has become available, and, if still interested, meet them and discuss the details.
Buying a share (or joining a non-equity group) is like a marriage. We all go in with high hopes, and a proportion of us will end up in an acrimonious divorce. It is better to look at it in strictly business-like terms as aviation is not a cheap activity, and most group members have limited funds.
Getting it wrong can be very expensive.

[james747james]

Hey guys thanks very much for your replys, i finally understand it now!! What type of aircraft do you guys have a share in? Would they have the adverts for group sharing at my local airfield or would i have to look up on here or other websites?

Many thanks again

James :ok:

[foxmoth]

Not sure which field you are at, most have shares for sale on the club notice board, otherwise try the Hangar (http://www.thehangar.co.uk/cgi-bin/classifieds/classifieds.pl), AFORS or the flying magazine web sites. Also the back of the flying mags. Good luck.:ok:

[james747james]

Ok thanks Foxmoth! I haven't actually started flying yet! but i just wanted to know all about group sharing as i think i'd be interested in doin it in the near future. It's wycombe airpark (booker) i want to train at as it's about 4 miles away from me :)

Many thanks

James :ok:

[Cusco]

Aha! I see............

Cusco:rolleyes::rolleyes: