Beech Sundowner W&B

[gfunc]

Hey folks - I'm looking for folks with experience of a Beech Sundowner for a bit of advice!

Yesterday I had a check ride in my local FBOs 'new' 1974 Beech Sundowner since they were offering free rental for the first 20 checkouts (who am I to resist $70 ph with fuel and CFI?). The CFI said I should have a look at the weight and balance in my own time using an online calculator they provide. My problem is that it shows with full tanks by myself (I am about 160lbs) the aircraft is beyond its forward C of G. If I want to fly solo I'll have to either shed 80lbs of weight or sit in the back :eek:.

Can anyone with Sundowner time tell me if this is accurate or if the W&B calculator has some kind of fault? It seems that if I add a couple of mates into the equation the probs are even worse!

Since it is a rental aircraft it is always fully fueled before I get there, so filling to tabs isn't really an option. Its a shame as I found the aircraft quite nice to fly (a bit heavy on the controls mind) and the view out was great. I know we often have to compromise, but being unable to fly one up with full tanks is a bit daft.....

I appreciate any insight!

Cheers,

Gareth.

[troddenmasses]

Sounds about right to me. I used to part own a 1973 Sundowner and we always kept a load of useful stuff in the back - tow bar, oil, cleaning materials - that kind of thing. As we pretty much knew the weight of it, it could be included in the W&B calcs. If you don't have that kind of thing, work out how much weight would be needed to put you nicely into the envelope, and then get something that heavy - a few bricks perhaps, or a small plastic barrel that you can fill the required amount with water.

It was a beautiful aircraft to fly, having learnt on the PA38/PA-28 type aircraft. One day I did a quick walk around, then went flying. I found that I ran out of backward trim, and had quite a hard time slowing the thing down. As soon as I realised that I had forgotten to check that the heavy stuff was in the back, I managed to adjust my flying style to suit, and landed as soon as I could - deciding that I would not use flaps so that I would be landing quicker, with more wind over the stabilator. All in all, not a nice experience - but since then, I have never skimped on an initial walk round.

[gfunc]

Thanks for the reply - I experienced the running out of backward trim on final, according to the numbers we were right at the forward c of g, although I suspect the CFI was telling porkies about his weight!

It really was a stable platform with lots of room and great views - ideal for bring along friends and well-wishers for their first experience. Its just a bit of a shame I'll have to be imaginative with how many I can bring and where they can sit! The best I can muster with full tanks is me in the front and two in the back - I'll look a bit like a glorified taxi driver in that case.

It seems a bit of a daft way to design an aeroplane that can be safety flown single pilot with full tanks, but I'm sure I couldn't do much better!

I'm taking some folks 'leaf peeping' in the Adirondacks (upstate NY) this weekend, so it looks like it's back to the 172 for now as I can throw four of us in at with full tanks and still be legal!

Cheers,

Gareth.

[BackPacker]

Did you talk to the CFI about this? Because you're not the only one that will have this problem, and it might be a good idea for the FBO to come up with one solution, instead of 100 renters with each their own.

For example: get rid of the habit of fueling it full up after each flight. If the aircraft has a wet rate, it doesn't matter anyway. If the aircraft has a dry rate, use the markers instead of full.

Or do what we did in the DA-40 at our club (same CofG problem): fill a bucket with sand, exactly weighted so that with two standard adults up front, full fuel, and the bucket of sand in the back, you were exactly within the envelope. The bucket was sealed, marked with its weight, its purpose and the callsign of the aircraft, and was normally left on board in the rearmost cargo compartment (with a visible tag sticking out the finger hole of the cover of said compartment). If you don't need it you can take it out and leave it in the grass next to its parking spot, as long as you put it back in after the flight. (We need 17 kilos so it's just about doable getting it out and in without getting a back injury.)