Building an airplane....whats involved?

[draccent]

Ok so someday...after I get a license and instrument rating..I want to build a plane. Looking to build a high wing piper looking something or another. Whats involved? Can I just build one in a garage, and have the FAA inspect the finished product? I just have to keep all the parts receipts right?

[Russell Gulch]

I suggest you join the local EAA Chapter. They'll answer all your questions.

Incidentally, why do you want to build one?

And why do you need an IR?

[BackPacker]

EAA, PFA should have plenty of information on homebuilding. Yes, you can do it in your average car garage (dual garage being recommended) as long as you can maintain the environmental standards that apply to the type of building material you're working with (glassfiber/resin being the strictest in terms of temperature and humidity).

Two books to recommend:
Choosing your homebuilt - Kenneth Armstrong
Kitplane Construction - Ronald J Wanttaja

As for paperwork: Just the parts receipt will not be enough. During the build you will have to have regular inspections by an inspector - that's where the EAA (US), PFA (UK) or similar organization comes in. These inspectors are there to satisfy that your building meets the standards, particularly since after the build a lot of your work will not be visible anymore. Also, you've got to find a way to prove to your inspector/the FAA or CAA that you built the plane yourself for a large part (500 hours or 50%, depending on FAA or CAA, I don't remember which is which) so usually people keep detailed logbooks with photos etc.

When finished, you will be limited to Day VFR only, and only private flights, no aerial work etc. Only in exceptional cases does the FAA (and only the FAA) allow night VFR or IFR flights in a homebuilt.

So, if you're serious (and if you want to build a high-wing piper, I doubt that somehow :rolleyes:) your very first point of call should be the EAA or PFA. Decide whether you really want to build something, then what sort of plane you will want to build, what materials you want to use, whether you're going for a kitplane or plans-built, etc.

Best to buy and read those two books first, check out some websites of PFA, EAA and various kitplane manufacturers (Europa, Kitfox, Van's, Murphy, Jabiru, Lancair, Glasair, Zenair etc.), subscribe to a few mailing lists, sit on the idea for a year or so, consider the type of flying you do and the type of plane you need for that, consider your budget and available time, consider your expertise with the materials you're going to work with and then make a decision. Oh, and there are plenty of half-finished kits out there that can be picked up for a bargain. Guess why.

[Sam-MAN]

There was an excellent programme on 'discovery wings' a few months ago about someone starting from scratch...Very long and hard process by the looks of it!

[DaveW]

There are several excellent step-by-step records of builds available on the web, which are ideal resources to understand just how much effort and commitment is involved.

Examples are these two for the Van's RV-7:
One in the USA (http://www.rvproject.com/)

One in the UK (http://www.rvproject.co.uk/)

[eharding]

Never built one from scratch - but having done a certain amount of spannering on our PFA Pitts S1, I'd say the one vital requirement is that you have a large amount of extremely bad language available - I understand Peter Cooke and Dudley Moore have prepared some excellent preparatory training material, but having removed and replaced the fuel tank in the Pitts more than once I've found the requirement for profanity well beyond anything they ever aspired to. In understand that replacing the main gear bungees does require hearing protection, to prevent ear damage caused by repeated use of some of the very earliest Anglo-Saxon phrases yet discovered.

But it will all be worth it in the end.....

[BackPacker]

There was an excellent programme on 'discovery wings' a few months ago about someone starting from scratch...

You are probably referring to "A Plane is Born" starring Mark Evans, who built a Europa XS trigear, and learned to fly, over 15 30-minute episodes. Although in reality it took a little longer...

http://www.aplaneisborn.com
http://www.europa-aircraft.biz
http://www.matronics.com/europa-list/index.htm
http://www.europaclub.org.uk/

The program did boost Europa sales. Didn't stop the company from going bankrupt in 2004, unfortunately. Some of the employees of the original Europa Aircraft ltd., aided with some outside capital, were able to continue under the name Europa (2004) ltd. Europa (2004) is still trading.

[18greens]

Why wait until you have a licence? You don't need be able to fly to build a plane. Some people seem to enjoy building them more than flying them.

[IFMU]

Only in exceptional cases does the FAA (and only the FAA) allow night VFR or IFR flights in a homebuilt.
I don't think it is that exceptional in the US, you just need proper equipment and pilot certification.

Can I just build one in a garage, and have the FAA inspect the finished product? I just have to keep all the parts receipts right?
Technically, yes. If you have an EAA technical counselor inspect your work as you go along, you will have an easier time with the FAA or the DAR. You need the receipts in the US because they will want proof that you paid taxes.

Building an airplane is one of those voyages of self-discovery, in some ways like flying. But different. The WORST reason to build is to own an airplane. You are a lot better off just going and buying something. But for those of us that have discovered a love of building, it itches a scratch that nothing else will. I started an RV4, but family/financial constraints put that in the attic after I finished the tail. I've been scratch building a hummelbird for about 8 years. All the fun of building, small amount of cash outlay. It works for me. There are many different avenues in homebuilding, the key is finding which one works for you.

-- IFMU

[draccent]

Well I'll admit....I am poor. I want an airplane and I have always thought building one would be cheaper. But I desperately just want an airplane...nothing special, but I want a real plane...which by that I mean not an ultralight or parachute or something you know? I did find a c-150 for sale for 32k but it was VERY old, and insurance will rape me :(:(:(:(


So what do I do? I just want something for photography, but also with range and the capability to go anywhere.

[BackPacker]

If you just want to fly, don't build it yourself.

Building an aircraft from an advanced kit will be almost as expensive, or even way more expensive in some cases, than a good 2nd hand 152 or so, and will require at least a year of dedicating all your free time to the project. If you spend that time in a proper job instead, you raise enough money to buy a proper aircraft.

Take a basic kit (just parts, no work done by the factory) or try a plans-built aircraft and you might be looking at up to 10 years before you're finished. If finances, marriage, kids, medical and other things don't have you abandon the project before it's finished.

[Bahn-Jeaux]

Prompted me to start looking at types and after browsing the PFA site, I would love to get my mitts on an Isaacs Fury. Looks just the type to put the fun into flying Havn't the time to build though. (nor the spare cash at the moment)

Anyone any ideas on insurance costs for this type? Do they come up for sale much? Maintenance issues etc.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Well I'll admit....I am poor. I want an airplane and I have always thought building one would be cheaper. But I desperately just want an airplane...nothing special, but I want a real plane...which by that I mean not an ultralight or parachute or something you know? I did find a c-150 for sale for 32k but it was VERY old, and insurance will rape me


So what do I do? I just want something for photography, but also with range and the capability to go anywhere.

Top tip - learn to fly first. As you do, it'll all start to make much more sense.

G

[rtl_flyer]

You have REALLY got to want to build - rather than build to save cost. It is a BIG commitment. Here is my RV7 QUICKBUILD diary.....note quick!!:uhoh:
http://www.go-7.co.uk/build/index2006.htm (for 2006).
Started my RV7 Nov'04 finished Aug'06, worked almost every evening and most weekends.
I loved every minute of it and now have another project, but it's not everybodys idea of fun.
Tim

[Rod1]

Different people build for different reasons. A home built aircraft can be the equivalent of a tailor made suite. I wanted a new machine to my precise requirements, so I built a kit aircraft and fitted it out to my requirements. It would have been impossible to buy such a machine from a factory without spending huge amounts of cash. It took me 3 years elapsed / 1800 hours and £50k to build and I am very happy with the result. I fell in and out of love for the build, but I made the finish line and I learned a lot about airframes and engines, which you would not get out of a book!

To plans build you have to be very dedicated, with build times in the 10,000 of hours and decades to a complete aircraft, but this can be very inexpensive.

A home built can be operated at a fraction of the cost of a C of A machine, with a typical yearly saving on maintenance alone of £4k.

Rod1
MCR 01 G-KARK

[IO540]

build times in the 10,000 of hours and decades to a complete aircraft, but this can be very inexpensive.

Unless you are housed at Her Majesty's Pleasure, the cost of 10k hours is enough to fund a brand new IFR tourer.

And even if thus housed and supported, no normal person is going to find 10k spare hours before they are too old to pass a CAA Class 2 :)

I seriously doubt anybody who actually flies for real is spending thousands of hours. Do you realise what a massive chunk of somebody's life that is???

I bet there are a lot of "build assist" ;) schemes going on, quietly... very quietly.

A home built can be operated at a fraction of the cost of a C of A machine, with a typical yearly saving on maintenance alone of £4k

Sure it's cheaper to be on a permit, but can you itemise the above 4k figure?

[Whirlybird]

draccent,

I think you're doing all this in the wrong order.

Firstly, learn to fly. You will learn all about aircraft, and find out what type you like flying as opposed to the ones you just think you'll like flying. You'll learn about different types of aircraft. You'll meet people - hirers, owners, builders etc - and be able to ask them lots of questions.

Then decide what you want to spend your time actually doing. As has been said, building planes takes a long, long time, and is only really suitable for people who enjoy the building as much as the flying. Some people enjoy the building more (odd, I know!) and sell on the plane; you could get a good deal that way. There are also some good second hand deals around, once you know what it is you're looking for.

You mentioned you found an old C150. "Old" in an aircraft doesn't matter, so long as it's in good shape, and it probably won't be allowed to fly if it isn't...I'm on shaky ground here, as I don't know the rules for such things outside the UK.

You talk about range and the capability to go anywhere. What exactly do you mean? If you want an IFR tourer, that'll cost serious money. If you want to fly for a few hours and take photos, a C150 or somethng similar but possibly cheaper to insure and maintain will do just fine.

Unless you HAVE to gloat over it being all yours, why not buy a share? Far cheaper, and you don't have to worry about maintenance and insurance all by yourself.

Genghis' top tip is spot-on - learn to fly first...and do your research at the same time.

[Rod1]

IO540

You have a PM

Rod1

[rtl_flyer]

I seriously doubt anybody who actually flies for real is spending thousands of hours. Do you realise what a massive chunk of somebody's life that is???
I know of a plans built project. Guy is working from 1928-1960's plans. Was five years before he even got to look at a complete example. He is about seven years into the build now - worked on it almost every evening and weekends. That's dedication. I have built a kit, could not do what he has. Hopes to have it finished in next year..... will be nice. Quality job. Imagine how he is going to feel when he gets in the air having made every part (appart from engine) himself! :D

[ChrisVJ]

I wonder how many of the people telling you not to build have actually done it.

I have,

Great experience. Most of the current Sportplanes run out about $100K plus. My plane cost me $55KCdn (about $45K US at the time) took 1 year (800 hrs of work) and was not a fast build kit. Choice of construction method and style is growing all the time.

You need to work out a few things first,
1.) Mission. What do you want to do with it and will it satisfy the mission requirements?
2.) Building method. Frame, Steel, Al, Fabric, F/Glass etc? Which are you comfortable with?
3.) Experience of other builders, number finished, number failed gives a decent indication of time and difficulty.
4.) A good internet group with a tips file, guys often on line and knowledgeable help is VITAL in this day and age. I would not even contemplate building a plane that did not have 80 to 100 or more Inet participants in the group.
5.) There are times it gets tedious or you run out of steam. Are you stubborn enough to see it through?
6.) Money. My kit was $22K, the engine was $11K My final bill was $55. The rest was shipping, tax, instruments ( about $5K!) , paint (about $1500) booth rental ($600) and lots of little odds and sods, oh, and inspections and legals ($2,000 plus!)

BUT, I loved it, and when I have built the garage on this house I expect to build another plane, ( but I have to tell my wife first, that is almost a bigger hurdle than building the garage!)

[IFMU]

I'm with ChrisVJ. All well said. But Genghis and Whirly give good advice, if you learn to fly first you will have a better idea of what you want to build. Or, rather, what you would like to end up with when you are done building.

-- IFMU

[draccent]

thanks everybody!