"Command Interview" bunk

[Ray Darr]

First off, I didn't had a problem going through the Command Interview. I DID, and STILL DO have an issue that everyone simply HAS to go through this silly tap-dance (which is so endemic in the ME region). Sorry to resort to acronyms, but...WTF?!

Aren't the line-checks, sim-checks, normal flights, etc, sufficient in the ME like they are elsewhere in the world to see how someone is coming along and ready for command?? Why are ME companies so fixated on this?

Why can't a professional aviator who happens to be working in the ME simply be slotted for upgrade training without having to go through this exercise (and the lame reason "because everyone else here had to!" is utter hog-wash!)??

Silly. That's all the “interview” is. Yet EVERYONE around the SandBox DOES it!

…Rant over.

~ R.D.

[Hook]

Congratulations on passing your command interview Ray.....

to be fair, it's not entirely a bad idea. A few guys were ill prepared for their upgrade and could not answer some FOM related questions etc. This might have affected the outcome of their course later on. They were asked to go back to the books and then re-interviewed, successfully. Hence the chance of an eventual failure was reduced, which I think is a good thing.

Not something that previous line checks and sim checks would neccessarily pick up.

Fire away.......:)

[goatliner]

Hey Sirs,

seems that the merry go round in QR got some inertia and the whole management changes (surprisingly, ha,ha) and maybe this issue is another item that made the decision by the big one to swap the "big guys" even faster, doesn't matter anyhow who wears the loosers hat for a year since there is only one power that reigns.

Beautiful evening gentlemen

G.L

[ironbutt57]

I cant believe Ray can even spell command interview:} myself included, cant understand how a company cant figure out after 10 yrs or more of service whether the candidate is suited or not....:confused:

[Ray Darr]

Harrr...Matey... (aka Hook) ...and any other Pirate-wannabe's...

I NEVER SAID I DID the Interview... I might be one of them DEC's, ya know! :} ...I might have done the interview just the same. Thanks for the congrads.

Many people want to know WHY most, if not ALL, of the airlines around Knoteetingham INSIST they must do this pesky "interview" versus grooming the new boys with periodic assessments along the way as they progress towards the left seat?? THAT SHOULD include what everyone should know from the FOM, amongst other things. Training/checking?? :p

This regional interview "policy" as rather antiquated and well past it's "best before" date!

~ R.D.

[ironbutt57]

Trust me Ray is looking forward to his command interview at some cold frozen tundra/perma frost-based airline as we speak..spraying himself with copious amounts of 6-12 skeeter repellant:}..but seriously...surely the industry leading AQP program that sets the standards for all future airline training we have in place here at GF could render this procedure obsolete....:confused::ok:

[411A]

Of course, the way around 'command' interviews is to recruit direct entry Commanders in the first place...saves all the agro for the present First Officers...:}

Problem solved.:ok:

[desert queen]

He's still alive...

[Mr Angry from Purley]

Why is it that Pilots think they are exempt for interview, and rely on seniority, or sim checks etc. The rest of the world has to apply / have interviews etc.
Might it be these days politically correct to do so, in theory with the new discrimination rules anyone can apply for a position, from the man at the top of the "list" expecting the call, to the man at the bottom with the hours etc.

Welcome to the real world, and Europe by the way :\

[Fart Master]

Mr Angry, I don't think it's unreasonable considering we have to re apply for our jobs every 6 months:=

[DesertHawk]

no problem with the interview depending on the content. If you are asking questions about FOM I think this is dumb. You would expect someone to have a general knowledge of this but is this not what ITC or intro to command course is for??? I think the interview should be solely based on CRM and Decision making things that are much harder to teach and come with experience and natural skills. just my personal view

[TangoUniform]

I find it utterly bizarre that a DEC can wonder in EK, with zero knowledge of EK's FOM and ops specs, be given the controls of the big jet and off he goes. While a F/O who has been here for several years, had several PPCs, several line checks, etc. has to be quized on have committed to memory the RVRs for a LVO takeoff. Or what is considered for acclimation, etc. If the trainers or whomever can't determine after 3 years someone is capable of command, what the hell is a FOM interview going to prove? One of the more weirder things in this place.

And remember girls, if the minimum wasn't good enough.....there wouldn't be a minimum. 2s?

[NO FD NO SRS]

I find it really amazing that we pilot became so unthankfull that we like to complain about every possible thing that come across into our life. let it be the money or the hotels we stay or the food we eat, custom, security, ATC, management etc... we all can fill many pages on this list.now some us dont want the command interviews... so whats next? may be to abolish the simulator checks followed by the medical checks? or stop wearing uniforms and show up for duty in shorts and underwears? I agree that we all want better standard of life but with all honesty dont you guys think we tend to complain too much about too many things??? Dont you guys think that we have stopped appreciating good things that we have them in our lives?

[Hook]

If you read my initial post, I meant that the interview actually benefits the trainee. As I said, some guys (thankfully few) show up without having made too much prep and hopefully this would be picked up at the interview and remedied, at no cost to the trainee (bar a couple of afternoons during his/her day off!:}) and a subtle message to pull one's socks up for what lies ahead.

I think the interview should be solely based on CRM and Decision making

Good idea to include these (and I believe they already are) but improvement on these issues will come during the ground course, the sim and the line training flights.

I thought the interview process was supposed to decide if you were Captain material or not
THIS is what previous linechecks and sims are supposed to have done, not the interview.

Having a good working knowledge of the FOM is essential. Memorizing it is stupid.

Never said memorised. But, you agree with me, a good knowledge is important.

There are many guys/girls around that can recite the FOM, chapter and verse, but have them fly the airplane without the autopilot, they go TU!


That's what the sim is for.....

I find it utterly bizarre that a DEC can wonder in EK, with zero knowledge of EK's FOM and ops specs, be given the controls of the big jet and off he goes.

So, so true. I actually think DEC's should be interviewed for their FOM knowledge before being released to the line. With all their previous experience, many don't know company requirements and have to depend on the F/Os for this - not a good state of affairs.

Of course, the way around 'command' interviews is to recruit direct entry Commanders in the first place...saves all the agro for the present First Officers...:}

Totally disagree - the past few years has shown a far higher success rate with upgrading experienced F/Os than employing DECs....our F/Os are employed as future captains, and bar the odd one or two, make great left seaters. Stop the DEC policy and you'll save a lot of agro for EVERYBODY.:)

[menard]

No Fd No Srs....no Clue...

[TangoUniform]

Hey FD,
I agree, I think we should all gather around a nice campfire in the desert and sing "Kumbaya". Hey, or maybe "Puff the Magic Dragon". That will always put a smile on a 5 year old's face.

Read the friggin' posts, pal. No one is saying do away with checks and balances, what they are saying is this archaic, bizarre oral exam on a FOM, that is not applied equally across the board, is a bit much. Know how to locate and disseminate the information, not memorize what's on page 14-12 or whatever. If an airline's training program is so lax that after three or so years it is not known whether or not an individual is ready for an upgrade, they have bigger issues in their training than whether or not someone can memorize flight time duty. Discuss something meaningful, like what to do with a Pollyanna first officer that will accept and do whatever some unseen controller will tell him to do, safe or not.

I need to go to the beach....Hey maybe there's a campfire going there. Marshmellows maybe. Oh I can't wait..Maybe singing and dancing on how perfect everything is. I'm losing it.....;)

[menard]

Tango, there is no beach left where you can go to and make fire.

[Terry Wrist]

Sometimes genius can be found in the most simple of minds. I think your idea of shorts and sandals is a great idea NO FD NO SRS and I always wanted to wear one of those legionaires caps and sand goggles too. Good thinking bro, I hate englishmans clothes too, lets all moan about the uniform!!!

Mate... what does NO FD NO SRS mean anyway? No Free Delivery? No Salami & Rye Sandwiches?

No... You didn't turn off that little green light??? Bad boy, it's not safe to do that!

[parabellum]

Up to a point I am inclined to agree with NO FD no FRS. So what is the problem with a 'command interview'? Having done a few they are simply confirmation that you are ready, usually a few simple questions more on operational matters, (like Hijack etc.), than technical. More just a formality to let you know getting a command is a step up rather than just the logical progression of the seniority system and the roster, an opportunity for management to put faces to names, especially names that have just passed before them asking if, in their opinion, said individual was ready for command.
If you have a problem with a 'command interview' then maybe you are not yet ready?

[Hook]

....and if Ray passed his interview, then it really can't be that difficult now can't it??:E:E:E

(sorry buddy, just joking:))

[menard]

Parabellum,

I would not agree in comparing any interview to: "Dont you guys think that we have stopped appreciating good things that we have them in our lives?" (Quoted from NO FD NO SRS).

[Thylakoid]

Ray, I will venture to say that this "interview syndrome" is another (of many) British legacy to the peoples of this part of the world.

In Emirates, you are always treated as a "trainee," a "candidate," a "student," stuff like that. It doesn't matter if you have been here for twenty years or so.

In essence, those HR (human remains) folks decide your career progress.
Interviews, tests, psychometrics, more tests, and in the end, they screw up and hire or upgrade some weirdo to fly their airplanes :}

[southflyer]

damn, I miss the place so much.......:yuk:

[Black Stain]

Why have an interview? From most of the work and a little responsibility, to little apparent work and all the resposibility. Some sort of interview would seem appropriate for the extra responsibility, and wider industry consensus is in agreement.

The big question is: why the grilling of First Officers that you know well, and the tea and dates for DEC of whom you know absolutely nothing??

Because if a DEC screws up we can blame the company that sold us a dud.

You are nothing but a herd of cowards.

Why do you have so little faith in your own checking and training system? The answer to that question is even more frightening.

Is there no-one who will take control of the airline's destiny and just fix it?? Just fix it. Everyone but the great big chief seems to know what to do.




Probably better just to leave while the market is strong. There are professional airlines out there.

For those of you who retain little pride...... please enjoy!

[Bring Back The Biff]

Gentlemen.
Be thankful you aren't at CX - they have a more intense interview to get from SECOND Officer to JUNIOR First Officer!
I do agree with your sentiments wrt DEC's though!

[wee one]

For those of you that think the market is strong, then jump ship. It certainly isnt in the UK. EG Last years 767 shortage is no more with mergers and restructures all over the industry. Decs are used in all companies bar a few, as Im sure some of you F/os will take advantage of if you do leave. The interview waitnig rooms are full of captains looking for captains jobs. Innapropiate hiring is just as rife here in the uk as it may or may nor be where you are. Those are the facts these days gents.

The expat market...well look on these threads, and others. moan moan moan.
A command interview is the least of your worries. EK/qr et al arent going to merge you arent going to be made redundant. Its not as good as it was but guess what...NO WHERE IS....But if you insist on thinking the world ends at the Dubai border or (in the context of how the companies treat you) its any different anywhere else , then just do it.

Obsessing with the DEC thing right or wrong as it may be just makes you all look like you have a chip.:ok:

[Black Stain]

Dear Wee One, all chips flicked off when after 4 years of baby sitting I was so generously awarded the scrambled eggs. Same job, it still sucks, only change was the pay and log book collumn.

Reality is that the pool of locally experienced senior First Officers is far safer than DEC. The real issue is money saved on the quick rostering fix. Have a bit of courage management and build an airline on airmanship merit and not of a catering rating.

Three cheers for the caterers who have brought you 5 stars this far, but there is so much further to go to be an airline to work for with pride.

Bring Back the Biff... You work for such an airline, blessed you are. May your career bring much personal satisfaction.

[hairy plotter]

stupid politics going on that's a reason behind. Every manager is trying to escape any kind of responsibility pushing the ball through the next door. Sure if a DEC does do a damage it's just a little mistake happening worldwide and more important no one is to blame. Upgrading people requires ability to take responsibility. Our management lets rather two captains fly together costing hell a lot of cash to the company but to take that responsibility. It's a wonder how some people became manager at last?? The whole situation is pathetic causing a huge shortage of first officers. The companies world wide are fighting for them offering fast tracks. Time to smell the roses for our team?

[Sal-e]

So who passes? The guy who knows the OMA inside out word for word and just makes it through his sim ride or the seasoned pilot who knows a portion of the OMA but flies like a dream regardless of what they throw at him in the sim?

[IXNAT]

Black Stain,
So an experienced First Officer is safer than a DEC? Quantify that one will you? To make that statement is a load of uninformed rubish. Yeah, he might know some local rules and how to figure out flight time limitations, but I will take a DEC from a worldwide airline with 15000 hours and his experience over a 4000 f/o that has memorized chapter 10. And probably those 4000 hours at EK has been in 8 hour blocks, not 2 hour blocks. Experience trumps memorizing the books any day.

And any news if you guys are going to let others fly your 747-8s on order?
IXNAT

[Black Stain]

Dear IXNAT,

With the exception of the one guy who punched a Dispatcher, there have been no problems with any guys upgraded within here. None that I have heard of anyway??

Several DEC have been terminated here over recent years for dangerous acts.

It is you that need to get the facts straight.

[Gretchenfrage]

JNB grassplough regular
MUC snowplough regular
GLA grassplough regular
Himalaya almost snowplough local talent
DXB almost wallplough DEC (sacked because he discovered
that it was a software sc###up)

go figure BS:yuk:

[loc22550]

Black Stain...IXnat was talking about DEC from a Worlwide airline with 15000h..., is it this kind of captain that Q.A. is able to attract....?
I doubt....:hmm:

[White Knight]

IXNAT - you're forgetting that a large percentage of F/O's at EK were CAPTAINS prior to coming here:hmm::hmm: And quite a few with over the 10000 hr DEC requirement.

As for 8 hr blocks instead of 2 hr blocks - I wish it were all 8 hr blocks on my roster, alas, lots of turnarounds this month:\

[atiuta]

Gretchen Petal

Lets set the record straight. GLA was a DEC, not that the fact is necessarily relevant. The facts surrounding this incident are unknown by most and therefore most professional pilots are refraining from passing judgement.

Munich was an outright component failure, I'm assuming you're referring to the broken axle.

The DEC with the barrier incident, that was just the tip of the iceberg. Right call in my opinion but it wasn't his hired status (DEC) that controlled his style of operation.

Most of the DEC's here are competent enough. Question is, are they necessarily anymore competent than upgrading an FO? In most cases the answer is an emphatic, no. Thousands of hours implies ability, it doesn't prove it.

Regardless of anyones opinion, DEC's have been hired in the past and the policy will continue to remain in place.

Back to the thread. Yes there should be an interview for command upgrade. I also believe that the whole DEC/Upgrade process should be reviewed/adjusted to ensure a common product after FLC. Another airlines command process is not necessarily an appropriate benchmark for Emirates and the interview is inconsequential for anyone that is up to it.

[Gretchenfrage]

atiuta
The facts surrounding this incident are unknown by most and therefore most professional pilots are refraining from passing judgement.
Could work for comments on DEC's the same.

GLA DEC? Not Management?
MUC was the one suffocating the engine in a snow wall.

But apart from this:
Back to the thread. Yes there should be an interview for command upgrade. I also believe that the whole DEC/Upgrade process should be reviewed/adjusted to ensure a common product after FLC. Another airlines command process is not necessarily an appropriate benchmark for Emirates and the interview is inconsequential for anyone that is up to it.
that's the best contribution to this problem.:D

[atiuta]

GLA DEC? Yes. Into a management position, but DEC none-the-less.

Comments on specific cases based on fact.

Have to admit that Black Stain is right, there have been more DEC's terminated here than FO's. Either the the hiring process has a weak spot or the individuals were able to hide their flaws better than the FO's can.

[flyby787]

http://www.flightglobal.com/Jobs/job/a320-direct-entry-captains-europe-10157762.htm

[atiuta]

I heard Emirates was looking at this as an option ...