What should I do?

[littleflyer]

Hi people.

Im a 14 year old girl, I have 5 written exams done towards my PPL and I have clocked up 11 hours. I would really like to have a career in commercial flying but I want to know if you need certian GCSEs or A levels to be accepted into flight schools?

I have been told I need a GCSE and A level in maths and physics? Is this true?

_Little-flyer_

[Life's a Beech]

Certainly do the GCSEs and work hard in those subjects. If you do those A levels you will find the ATPL exams easier, but only do them if you enjoy the subjects or think you will do better in them than others.

If you are going to be a pilot then education will help you develope as a person, help you learn to study and to work with focus, and I hope give you enjoyment. They also provide a back-up career whan needed! The actually subjects studied are not terribly important to your aviation career, unless there is a training scheme that requires certain A levels (perhaps others could say if there is; having done sciences myself I cannot recall if any courses actually required them).

I feel old. I already had a PPL and both those A levels when you were born.

[BroomstickPilot]

Hi littleflyer,

First of all, I suggest you get access to the CAA publication called 'LASORS'. This costs about £13 and a new issue comes out every year. This will tell you all of the licence requirements so that you can study them at leasure. You can also download it free from the CAA website.

Early every November, there is a flying careers exhibition (organised I think by Flyer magazine) at the Renaissance Hotel at Heathrow. I strongly advise you to go to this exhibition as there you can speak to representatives of many of the flying schools, including some from overseas, all in one place. Prepare your questions to them well in advance and go there for a fact-finding visit. You'll come back with a carrier bag full of information.

To the best of my recollection, there is no formal academic requirement for access to the ATPL course, but that is only as far as the CAA is concerned. However, individual flying schools may well impose academic requirements of their own, which will vary from one school to another. You will have to ask each school in turn to discover what these are.

However, be in no doubt about the demands of ATPL groundschool. Anybody without a good deal of academic ability is most unlikely to succeed. You may not need to be in possession of university admission qualifications, but you definitely do need to have the sort of ability that would enable you to obtain such qualifications if you wanted them.

Heed well the words of the wicked witch!

BroomstickPilot.

[littleflyer]

Hey

Thanks for yor help. I will heed your words!

Thx :ok:

_Little-Flyer_

[tmmorris]

I would echo the 'don't need to be a graduate, but need to be clever enough to be one...' I have a friend who is a pilot for BA - he was one of the last on their cadetship scheme. He went straight from school - but only because he was clearly intelligent and had excellent A levels including Maths and Physics, as you mention.

Incidentally LASORS is free to download from www.caa.co.uk as a PDF. It's a nasty website to navigate but if you use the search function (top right) and enter LASORS, the correct link comes up as the first hit.

Oh, and good luck. Are you an air cadet, by the way (CCF if your school has one, or the local Air Training Corps)? If not, it would be worth thinking about - you don't have to go the military way afterwards but you will learn a lot about aviation and also a lot of self-discipline on the way.

Tim

[littleflyer]

hey hey.

I dont belong to air cadets unfortunately but my uncle is in the army and has been trying to persuade me lately to join.

Would it be worth the bother?

Thx

_Little-Flyer_

[Foxy Loxy]

Just did a quick search - this may help. http://www.dmoz.org/Regional/Europe/United_Kingdom/Government/Defence/Cadets/Air_Training_Corps/

Best of luck!:ok:

Foxy

[littleflyer]

hi!

Awk thanks alot, Your all so nice.:p

_Little-Flyer_

[BEagle]

The direct link for LASORS 2007 is:

http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/LASORS_07.pdf

Good luck!

[BroomstickPilot]

Hi once again littleflyer,

BE CAREFUL!

You need to decide just exactly what kind of flying you want to spend your career of perhaps two or three decades doing, AND STICK TO IT! If you want to be a civil airline pilot flying airliners then the Army is NOT the place to go. If you want to be a commercial helo pilot, then perhaps.

Your uncle is no doubt an enthusiastic soldier (and the nation is fortunate indeed still to have such people in its service,) but would you be?

I believe Army flying is 'open to all arms' and most Army pilots are seconded from other arms and only spend perhaps three years with the Air Corps after which they return to ordinary soldiering. (My AME was an Army doctor who decided to have a go at flying, became an Army helicopter pilot, then years later he left the Army and became a commercial helo pilot, and became an AME only after he retired: quite incredible).

Would you be permitted to remain in the Air Corps for your whole career?

I would guess that to do it you would have to sign on for a minimum of 12 years, how do you feel about that?

Even if you were successful in getting yourself into the Army Air Corps, you would only do a very limited amount of fixed wing flying early in your training, as the Army only operates rotary wing aircraft operationally. So all your operational experience would be on helicopters and on leaving the service, you would probably be able to make a career in civil flying only as a commercial helicopter pilot.

Furthermore, just at the moment there is an awful lot of dissillusion among military pilots in all services, not just the Army. An awful lot of service people have had enough and want to get out. Just take a look at the military flying threads on this website and you'll see what I mean.

BroomstickPilot.

[Blues&twos]

Of all the subjects I studied at O level, A level and degree level I reckon the most useful ones have been (both in my working life and outside) Maths and Physics. No doubt about it!

Of course a good broad all round education will always be a big help, whatever you do. Make the most of it while you can, and while you're young enough for it to be free..... It's much more difficult to go back to it later when you have other responsibilities like children of your own and a job!

Good luck with the flying!:ok:

[BackPacker]

What also might help in a commercial career is a rudimentary knowledge of a few languages like Spanish, French, German and Italian. Maybe even some Arabic, Russian and Chinese.

Yes, English is the language of aviation and judging by your posts you're not going to have a problem with that. But on long-haul you may end up on aprons and in foreign hotels, having to deal with people whose skills in English are sometimes insufficient for the job at hand. Being able to talk to them in their native language (or even only to swear at them in their native language) helps a lot.

Plus, people are usually nicer to you if you attempt to address them in their own language first, then switch to English.

[littleflyer]

hey.

I did choose to do a spanish and french GCSE so that will hopefully help a bit. The problem is do I need GCSE in physics to become an airline pilot?

Different sources tell me its necessary while others say its opitional?:confused:
Any idea?



_Little-Flyer_

[gcolyer]

Personally I would say you don't "need" physics, but it will make the ATPL study a hell of a lot easier and will probably look better on your application.

[tmmorris]

Broomstick_Pilot, I think she meant 'join the ATC' not 'join the Army'...
Tim

[BRL]

Hi Littleflyer, welcome to this forum. :)

Have a look at this thread----> PPL Diary....... (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=138022&highlight=Diary)

[Whirlybird]

littleflyer,

All the people I knew who joined the air cadets loved it. After all, it's free flying - and you don't get a lot of that! Why do you think it would be a bother?

I don't think you need GCSE physics in the sense of anybody requiring it, but I think trying to do the ATPL exams without at least that level of understanding of physics would be pure hell....and that's an understatement!

[Cusco]

Little flyer:
If your postings are anything to go by (and by that I mean your spelling, syntaxe and grammar are better than many three times your age on here), you will succeed in your aspirations.

May I commend to you the Flyer Forum (based on Flyer magazine) http://forums.flyer.co.uk : there is a dedicated section for student pilots where you can read about people at all stages of their flying/learning careers.

It has a strictly no abuse/ no flaming policy (unlike pprune) and you will very likely be able to blag rides from Forumites and go to Fly-ins around the country and meet up.There are quite a few Forumites in Northern Ireland.
Caveat: you need to take Mr Fujiabounds posting elsewhere with a healthy pinch of salt.

Good luck, welcome to PPRuNe and keep posting.

Cusco;)

[Fuji Abound]

Caveat: you need to take Mr Fujiabounds posting elswhere with a healthy pinch of salt.

That's it - I am leaving!!

[charliegolf]

Littleflyer
Lots of good advice here, and here's my 2 pence worth, as a teacher, headteacher, pilot and ex-mil aircrew:
Get the most of the very best broad education that you can.
Get Maths, English and Physics GCSE at the highest level you can- As are 10 a penny, so be in that club if you can. If you can afford to fly, you can buy tuition! These skills will serve you all your life.
Get university admission- you can defer if the flying goes well. You don't need a degree to fly, but it's increasingly needed for employment if you don't end up as a pilot.
DO NOT join the military unless it is the thing you really want. You'll regret it.
Finally, don't do the boy thing- "I'm gonna play for Man U, so school stuff is no use to me".
Good Luck
CG

[SkyToddler]

littleflyer,

Dont join the ATC to get 'free flying' i've just left after being in cadets for 3 years. The ATC is financed for 20mins flying per cadet a year, and believe me they stick to it. Not only that you'll probly pay about £70 a year in subs, so is it really worth it? My answer...no.

[stickandrudderman]

If your postings are anything to go by (and by that I mean your spelling, syntaxe and grammar are better than many three times your age on here), you will succeed in your aspirations.

May I commend to you the Flyer Forum (based on Flyer magazine) http://forums.flyer.co.uk (http://forums.flyer.co.uk/) : there is a dedicated section for student pilots where you can read about people at all stages of their flying/learning careers.


Should I point it out or will someone else tell him?;)

[rustle]

He's allowed to spell it with an extra "e". (It's an ancient law.)

[Cusco]

Proved my assertion perfectly, don't ya think?

Cusco.;);)

[DX Wombat]

I am delighted you are so keen to learn to fly and wish you all the best. May I just ask one small question? Are you only just 14 or nearly 15? The reason I ask this is because I have a nasty feeling the validity of your written exams could expire before you can legally have your PPL. As far as I know they are only valid up to two years before they have to be retaken if you have not gained your PPL by then. As you can't have your licence until your 17th birthday this is a bit of a worry. Please check carefully with your FI as I would hate you to have to spend more money (and take more of those exams) than necessary.
There was a thread recently about the Air Training Corps (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=242145&highlight=Cadets) where many people told of their experiences, do have a look at it. If you decide to go to University then DO join the UAS (University Air Squadron)

[Zulu Alpha]

See if you can help out at your local airfield, unpaid at first and then maybe for some small remuneration once you are 16 (many companies insurance will not let them employ people under 16). Even if its just cleaning aircraft, answering the phone, refuelling etc. If you are responsible then and trustworthy then they will encourage you and probably let you have some free flights etc. It will also give you a chance to find out more about flying and where your interest lies.

Doing well at GCSEs and A levels cannot do any harm either.

[BEagle]

DX Wombat - even if littleflyer passed all except one exam on her 14th birthday and the final one when she's 15 years and 6 months old (i.e., passed them all in an 18 month period), they'd be valid for licence issue until she was 17 years and 6 months old.

But what she mustn't do is to pass them ALL before she's at least 15. Otherwise they would have lasped by the time she could apply for her PPL.

All exams must be passed within an 18 month window.

They are then valid for licence issue for 24 months from the date of passing the last exam.

[homeguard]

BEagle
You raise the interesting point, that is; 24 months from the last succesful exam. This would seem unfair although you are, of course, correct. Should the student complete their exams within 6 months they have a further 2 years. A total of two years and 6 months. But, should they take the full 18 months for the writtens then they have 3 years and 6 months to complete. A full year longer. Bloody stupid!

[BroomstickPilot]

Hi DX Wombat,

I thought I heard some short time ago that the university air squadrons were to be axed, the RAF having finally realised that very few Ex UAS graduates actually join the Air Force. Am I wrong?

Broomstick.

[DX Wombat]

Thanks BEagle - I'm glad I was wrong. :)
Broomstick - I don't know and unfortunately I can't contact my usual source of such information at the moment, but BEagle might know. - By the way, with regard to your Username - have you ever seen those brilliant, radio-controlled microlights which are witches on broomsticks complete with black cat rudder? Watching them skimming along just above hedge height at Rufforth a few years ago must have given some passing motorists quite a funny turn. :E
This (http://www.netaxs.com/~mhmyers/witchL.mov.gif) isn't one of the ones I saw but it gives you a good idea. :)

[BroomstickPilot]

Hi DX Wombat,

It wasn't me in that picture! Honest!

No, this is the first I have ever heard of these. Aren't they a hoot?

I notice the cat part is right at the back of the aircraft. This is good because flying with a cat on your broomstick can be a pain: they are apt to get ideas above their station.

The other day, after our usual sortie scattering wicked spells over Slough, (John Betjeman was right about that place,) we were flying home over Eaton College. My cat asked if I would send him there one day to get himself an education in magic so he could be a witch like me. ‘Turned out he thought it was Hogwarts. I take his point about the appearance of the place: there is a certain similarity. But Eaton College is Eaton College, not Hogwarts; and believe me, Guys, aint nuthin’ magic ever come out of that place!

Broomstick.

[littleflyer]

Hey people.

Dont worry as I have already read about the exam time limit and I have left Navigation and Flight Planning until next year when I will be working towards my corss country and solo so it will be of more practical. You are all very assertive here on Pprune.

I am quite surprised that I appear to be a good speller as that would usually be my down fall.

Thx again!:p

_Little-Flyer_

[grababadger]

Hey,

One thing I don't understand is physics and maths are mandatory at GCSE level, unless it's different in Ireland?

[charliegolf]

It's not mandatory to pass them though!

CG

More seriously, pupils can choose the level of commitment to science: single science is a bit of everything, not a lot; double is 'two GCSEs worth'; whilst triple science is the Chem, Biol and Phys that oldies remember.

[Sam-MAN]

In my school the 'more able' pupils do 'higher' science worth 2 GCSE's, and the 'less able' do the lower which is 1 GCSE.

I am doing the higher one and all ready have 1 GCSE in it (A). It is a bit of everything.

[tmmorris]

Absolutely no criticism of you, SAM-man, but your school is letting you down badly. It's not the only one.

Single or double award GCSE science isn't really up to scratch for the brighter pupils. You should be able to do three separate sciences at that sort of level. Unfortunately most schools don't have the resources or timetable space to teach them. Or, like most independent schools, they don't want to teach them because if the bright pupils do double award, they all get A*s, whereas if they did three separate ones, they would learn more but might get As or even (heaven forbid) Bs, pushing the school down the league tables.

Not done in the interests of the pupils, but of the senior management team getting their promotions/pay rises.

Tim

[Sam-MAN]

Personally i prefer what we do now, much easier.

30% of the final GCSE is from tests we do in class (we do 12 tests all together. 4 biology, 4 chemistry, 4 physics. The best one out of the 4 gets put forward). 40% is from tests we do in the 'hall', multiple choice (we get the chance to retake if we mess up) and the other 10% is from 'assessment grades' which the teacher marks us on... (well, you can imagine what we all get...)

So personally it works out better for me.

[DX Wombat]

Sam, I hope you realise you have just fuelled the fires of those who claim that the stand of today's GCSE qualification is not just decreasing but plummeting. :\

[Sam-MAN]

Nothing i can do about it, im not a teacher :* I just learn what i have to learn, and try my best

[tmmorris]

But, Sam-MAN, it doesn't work out better for you at all. Easier, yes. Better, no.

All that will happen is that your knowledge of science will be poor. So, when you do a job (or a PPL) which requires sound scientific knowledge, you won't have it, and you will have a much harder job doing it (or will lose out to someone better educated, e.g. an immigrant...)

Tim

[Sam-MAN]

Given the choice i would of proberly chose them 'separate', but i don't have a choice. My school has quite a good reputation and is one of the best in the area (excluding grammar schools). I am looking to take physics and maths + others at A level anyway.

Sam

[SkyToddler]

"My school has quite a good reputation and is one of the best in the area"

Well thats debatable if the most you can do is double science, my school isnt exactly the best but we can all do triple science regardless of ability.:p

[littleflyer]

ok.

My schools a complete mess and we can do single, double or triple or whatever science we want. i.e. physics and chemistry, biology and physics. etc.


But this only depends on the numbers from each year.

_Little-Flyer_

[isi3000]

Never heard of this 'triple science' thing we all took double even the less able students.

Must be a new-ish thing...

[mad_jock]

little flyer have a look at this thread

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=312098

I have taught people for GAPAN and if you are dedicated they are more than happy to help.

I would advise not putting all your eggs in one basket. Stick with school and look to be doing a backup just in case.

Have a look at becoming a optician if you like the idea they earn heaps of money very quickly after training. And have plenty of part time jobs for you to do while training or looking for your first pilot job.

The policy of some schools on science is very dependent on the managment of the school. If the managment are more artsy types they begrudge the extra money required to teach the science subjects compared to teaching the art subjects. The fact that the kids will actually get a job with Chemistry, Biology,Physics, Maths and English compared to English, media studys, French, Social studys, etc etc. Has no input into the equation.

I had huge arguments refusing to do Higher English or languages at 'o'grade level. "But it will broaden your personality" aye right it's a waste of time I won't get the grades required for Uni and I would much prefer learning about something useful in woodwork instead of the social factors effecting lesbian single mothers during the highland clearances or speaking frog.

[Africrash]

Hi Little flyer,

I think many people will tell you physics is required as most cadet schemes will want you to have it, but if you want a fun career in flying you can work up on your own, and get the CPL, or ATP without going as a cadet, try Africa or somewhere else exciting to get experience, then when you are ready to settle down to a cozy airline job you will have so much experience as a pilot no one is going to care what GCSE you did.

As far as I can recall you do not need any GCSE or A levels to do the CPL and ATPL, just the brains to pass the exams.

Good luck with your career

Crash

[GS-Alpha]

Whilst in compulsory education, you might as well be getting the most out of it. Double award science is most certainly not the way to do this. I'd go for the pure science subjects if you have any choice in the matter.

[foxmoth]

when when you are ready to settle down to a cozy airline job you will have so much experience as a pilot no one is going to care what GCSE you did.


Whilst this Should be true, unfortunately it isn't,only once you have 1,000 hours plus proper airline jet time (preferably on 'Heavies') then you can stop worrying too much about what else you put on your CV.

On the question of joining the ATC - I would say YES, join. Whilst, as said, you might not get as much flying as you would like, they do a lot more things that are fun and it is something employers (not just in the aviation business) like. My Daughter (13) has been in for about 3 months, over winter, which is when ATC is least active, she has been flying, driven a tank, done night exercises and had a lot of fun, she is booked in for camp in the summer holidays and when she gets older there may be the chance to do Gliding/flying scholarships and exchange trips abroad. Yes, there will be some dull days, but the opportunities for those that put a lot in are great. (I achieved all these when I was in the ATC, but that was a few years ago).:ok:

[Windy Militant]

Hello All,
Three pages and not one Mention of the Air Scouts yet. Or this bunch!
Light Aircraft Association (http://www.laa.uk.com/)

LAA Youth & Education (http://www.flyers.org.uk/)

Might be a bit below your experience level but you'd get to meet like minded people of your own age and also make contacts with the world of aviation in a safe environment, there's some strange folks out here in Cyberspace! :} I know's I is One. ;) Best of luck L-F.

PS Perhaps with your level of knowledge you could help teach the younger kids. I've learned a lot through doing this at Scout Camps, and it's a confidence booster when you come to interviews and selection boards later on.