C172 vs. PA-28

[snowy_owl]

Hiya, i'm looking at my local flying clubs website and they need 250 hours P1 to be able to fly the pa-28, but i did my ppl in one at another FTO! So an alternative aircraft for my hours is the C172 - Is it's cockpit around the same size?

[gcolyer]

250 P1 hours to fly a PA28!!!!! I would find a new club. even if it was a T tail turbo arrow thats a stupid figure.

I personaly think a 172 cockpit is more spacious. Having 2 doors is nice and to get in the back of a 172 is easier.

[Contacttower]

What sort of club needs 250 hours to fly the PA28? Are you sure they don't mean the more powerful versions like the PA28R-200 or similar?

If anything the C172's cockpit is slightly larger...I don't know but that's the impression I get from sitting in it, also it has two doors. There's not much in it. The PA28 I find more pleasant to fly (especially the Arrow) but that's a different story. :E

[A and C]

Well that club won't be in business very long!

[snowy_owl]

Yeah it seems a bit steep to me in terms of the hours needed. I might just get a conversion anyways as the cessna's tend to be a tad cheaper than the warriors.


Are you sure they don't mean the more powerful versions like the PA28R-200 or similar?


I double checked and i believe it's a standard PA-28-161!

[Contacttower]

That's just silly. I learnt on the PA28-161 and I was allowed a go in the Arrow as well! It's not a difficult plane to fly..at all.

[Pilot DAR]

Remind the club the the certification requirements for the PA-28, and all other such certified aircraft, require that the aircraft must not demand unusual pilot skill or attention to be safe to fly. By the time you have 250 hours on that type (simple) aircraft, you're on your way to probably having some of that unusual skill, which you're not supposed to need!

Shop around some more, this club does not really want your business....

Pilot DAR

[172driver]

250 hours P1 to fly a basic trainer :ugh::ugh::confused: ??

Take your money elsewhere, these guys cannot be serious.

[gcolyer]

Out of interest which club is it??

[Will Hung]

Don't name names for legal reasons, but it would be nice to have a few clues. If you're in Herts, is Denham too far for you ? PM me if you want more info. Good luck !

[slim_slag]

If it's on a website I bet it's a typo. Have you phoned them?

[wsmempson]

250 hrs P1 to fly a warrior solo? I can't believe anyone would ask that! Just plain silly. To put this in perspective, someone I know has just got a job as a first officer on 737's (admittedly with an atpl) with a grand total of 278 hrs in his logbook....

Go on, give us a clue who it is making this frivolous request?

If you don't get any joy with your current outfit, go to British Airways Flying Club at Booker and fly their Warriors; no such onerous demands there...
:}

[snowy_owl]

Hiya, yeah i'm moving to cornwall so unfortunately the Herts airfields will be a tad too far!! Otherwise i'd have popped over to henlow as i was on the VGS there so i know some of the chaps.

In cornwall this place is near the sea and has a nice tarmac runway!! that should be a fairly big clue to all of you! - I emailed them but i am awaiting a reply

[IRRenewal]

i'm looking at my local flying clubs website and they need 250 hours P1 to be able to fly the pa-28
My guess would be that the club don't own the PA28 and it is a requirement on the insurance of whoever leases the A/C to the club. My local club used to have a similar but reverse situation where a PA28 was available for ab-initio training but the 172 wasn't.

first officer on 737's (admittedly with an atpl) with a grand total of 278 hrs in his logbook
ATPL issue still requires 1500 hours

[wsmempson]

Quote:
first officer on 737's (admittedly with an atpl) with a grand total of 278 hrs in his logbook
ATPL issue still requires 1500 hours

I bow to your superior knowledge on these things and can only say that he did not have 1,500 hrs and was sitting p2 with a fraction of the figure you mention. As to whether simulator time counts, goodness only knows....

[BullHughes]

Full ATPL only required by commander.
Frozen ATPL sufficient for First Officer.

[PAPI-74]

ATPL req 1500hrs.....
I am sure he means 278hrs P1....
250hrs reqd for ATPL issue only (P1)
Max 100hrs in the sim (25hrs max in an FNPT sim, the rest in a Level C or D full motion night or full motion night or day).

[rgsaero]

I know this school / club and you've got it a bit wrong. The club's aircraft are three C172s plus this one for high hours pilots. The aircraft is a PA28-180, (1968) the early version with the "hershey-bar" short, straight wing. Its about as different from a PA28-161 as a C172 is from a Piper Cub - with the power off it descends lilke a brick, and is really not for the unitiated. At 180 hp it burns more gas than the 172s so is not such good value. It happens to be personally owned by the owner of the school / club who doesn't want it bent and the insureres require the hours. If you want to fly a PA28 in Cornwall you'll have a long wait - there aren't any for hire at Bodmin or Lands End so maybe Plymouth or Exeter - a very long drive!

[flyme273]

per IRRenewal - it sounds like an insurance requirement. The owner qualifies for the 250 hrs discount.

I know the club and their 172's are just fine.

Beware of downdrafts on departure RW 27 and RW 23 - can be quite an experience.

Enjoy Cornwall - I'm envious.

[tmmorris]

rgsaero, I couldn't disagree more about the difference between the old PA28-180 and the later PA28-161. I transitioned from one to the other at about 80hrs total time with no problems at all. Yes, you need to be aware of the sink rate, especially with full flap. But there's nothing especially hard about it. And the C172 has some failings, too, in my experience - notably a tendency to self-oscillate at low speed (like a falling parachute) - maybe that was me, but that was how it felt - and a definite tendency to enter an incipient spin in a power-on stall - much more so than the PA28-180, which was my regular mount for three years (I now fly a PA28-181 but it still has the same wing).

Tim

[PAPI-74]

Yes the PA28 does have built in anti spin characteristics. The 172 will wing drop, but it is very predictable and the simple act of placing the control collum neutral prevents further drop.
In approach speed is vital in the 172 or it will float way past your mark. You either like one or the other really.
I used to own a share in a PA28-235....what a ride.
Since instructing on the new 172SP, I am split between the two. The 172 has got more room, 2 exits and great handling properties. The PA28 is harder fly well as I find it a bit less stable in the cruise, but that makes it interesting.
Pay your money...takes your choice

[snowy_owl]

I know this school / club and you've got it a bit wrong. The club's aircraft are three C172s plus this one for high hours pilots. The aircraft is a PA28-180, (1968) the early version with the "hershey-bar" short, straight wing.


In this case the club need to update their website! I'm looking at Land's End aerodrome now, its looks quite interesting.

I think i'll convert onto the 172 as it's cheaper to fly and for sight-seeing it'll be handy not to have to dip the wing!

[snowy_owl]

Just had a look inside the C172 and it is HUGE, with the seat all the way back my feet didn't reach the rudder!!! How cool lol,

[rusty sparrow]

Yep - I soloed in a PA-28 180 after about 30 hours dual/solo in a C152 - so I wouldn't say it needs a lot of experience. Very stable acft - but stalled it drops at about 1000 fpm. Carries four people with full tanks.

[IFMU]

Right now I'm flying an Arrow I, amonst other things. But some time ago the FBO where I used to fly had both a C172 and a warrior. Pretty darn similar, I thought. The C172 climbed a little better, and had lighter controls. The Warrior was a little faster, flew a little more truck-like, and was easier to land at high gross weight. Back then I was just starting my instrument training, could have gone with either for about the same money. I ended up going with the Warrior as it seemed like a better instrument platform to me.

-- IFMU

[ZFT]

Could this be a requirement of the a/c owner? A friend of mine has put similar requirements on his own aircraft at his club.

[India Four Two]

with the seat all the way back my feet didn't reach the rudder!!!That's why all the 172s I've flown in Canada always have a clevis pin in the seat track to prevent the seat going all the way back.

Guess what you will be holding onto if the seat slips back during the climb out? :eek:

[big.al]

Guess what you will be holding onto if the seat slips back during the climb out?

The cause of a number of stall accidents, I understand, and the reason why one of the MOST vital pre-take off checks is to ensure the seats are locked in place.

[Tall_guy_in_a_152]

Yep - I soloed in a PA-28 180 after about 30 hours dual/solo in a C152 - so I wouldn't say it needs a lot of experience. Very stable acft - but stalled it drops at about 1000 fpm. Carries four people with full tanks.
You need to select the right four people though! Two average males plus two average females plus fuel to tabs (not full) is generally the limit for a 180 in my experience.