Cessna 152 or Piper PA28 for PPL training?

[rogerthat777]

I'm planning to start a PPL course, not too sure where to start it, but it's gonna be in the South East of the UK, London region.

My question is:

C152 or PA28?

Which is a better plane/school to learn in/with?
(Taking into account costs, performance of plane etc etc etc!)
I'm looking at BA Flying club, Stapleford, Pilot Centre (Denham), Cabair (Bigg' Hill) or Redair Redhill.

Your opinions would be appreciated.

Cheers

[eharding]

Come down to White Waltham. Join a flying club...and chill out.

Somewhere along the way, you will learn to fly, but understand
that there are days when the weather is completely diabolical,
but you'll still head down to the club anyway....for some decent
food, to tinker with the Pitts you've bought a share in, or just
sit in the clubhouse with other pilots and talk bollocks about
flying...and wonder what the hell you thought was so important
about anything else....

This is one of your possible futures...or you can go to some
mass-production flying school, pay your money, finally get a
laser printed bit of paper from the CAA, and eventually give up
flying because nobody told you how to actually *enjoy* it once
you have a license.

[Silvio Pettirossi]

The Pa-28 its very stable in turbulence, does not need much ruder in the turns and lands almost by itself, these are very desirable characteristics for a safe touring airplane, but not the best for a trainer in my opinion.
The C152 is more challanging to fly, its lighter and makes you fight more in turbulence, you learn what those pedals are for, and you have to work more to make a good landing. Its still easy to fly, but not as easy as the PA-28
I think the cessna its the better trainer, more challenging and makes a better pilot out of you.

[sternone]

Silvio Pettirossi has it completely right, i fly in a flight school who has all piper warriors(except 1 152 they use for spin training), even 4 of them with glass cockpit avidyne but still i choose to learn on their only rusty 152 just because it's much more unstable and more difficult to land. It will take you more hours but you will be able to fly better in your life.

Practicly all students are learning to fly on their piper warriors glass cockpit, but that's because they wan't to get rated ASAP for flying Airbus'... wich i can understand, but that is not my goal, so that's why i choose the 152!!!!! do the same!!!

[toolowtoofast]

flown both. heaps. 152 for me.

[FlyerFoto]

I've always understood that the Cessna, geing high-wing can make thinks a lot easier, due to better downward visibility.....

http://paulcoulthread.fotopic.net/p45112635.html

whereas the Piper allows you to see traffic a lot better.....

http://paulcoulthread.fotopic.net/p44555174.html

You pays yer money and takes yer choice, as they say, a decision I'm hoping to have to take myself in the near future!

[sternone]

I've always understood that the Cessna, geing high-wing can make thinks a lot easier, due to better downward visibility.....


Absolutely not! The cessna is a B!tch when you are turning to base to see the runway!!!

[Final 3 Greens]

I have several hundred hours on the PA28 and advise you to build some too - but after you have done your training.

152 for training, no brainer :}

[BEagle]

I haven't flown a Cessna for years, but remember it as being an excellent little trainer. Mind you, ours were brand spanking new Reims F150s. They even climbed during 40 flap go-arounds! But the US-built one I flew many years later seemed rather flimsy, compared to the PA28.

For the 'larger' person, the PA28-161 Warrior has rather more room than the C150/152; the PA28-140 Cherokee has about the same as the C150/152.

You should find the fees for C150/152 slightly lower than those for the PA28-140 or -161.

[Viscount812]

I'll ask one question - how big are you? I learned on the 152 but it's cramped if you're any taller than 6' and a bit and have a width of .... well, try it for size and see. The PA28 is more expensive and I agree with the above comments that it's easier to fly than a 152, but it is also a lot more comfortable. Take a trial in both and see what you think.

[tmmorris]

I flew a 152 again for the first time for about 6 months on Tuesday. Normally I fly a PA28 or a DR400.

I was really, really bad at landing the 152. To the extent that on downwind for the next circuit I scooted across to the other seat to see if the right wheel was still attached. (Actually, it felt worse than it was!)

So yes, the PA28 can make you complacent about landing, in my experience. Though the Robin is a beautifully handling aircraft and I can land that just fine...

Tim

[A and C]

The aircraft is not an issue, the place that you get your training is!

Both BAFC and Stapeford FC are good value establishments and are worthy of your cash.............. some of the others will rip you off in sush subtle ways that you won't know it untill it is far too late to change horses.

As I don't know the outfit at redhill it should not be included in the above!

[Squawk7143]

I am not very tall 5'7" and I have only flown a C150 once....never again. Poor visibility, cramped, it is easy to fly though. High wing is a different experience from low wing . I regularly fly both the PA28-181 and the C172M.

As far as training goes, I learned on the PA38 Tomahawk...it is an interesting trainer and if you get a chance I'd go for that and leave the C150. If you want to go high wing later go for a 4 seat Cessna. But hey..it's just my opinion:ok:

[DX Wombat]

The FTO is a very important consideration. I learned mainly in a C152 with a little time in a PA28 (1:10hrs, PA28RG 1.30hrs) and 2.55hrs in a PA38 (very heavy and unresponsive to my mind). I still fly the C152 much more than the DA40 - and not just because the DA40 is grounded because there are no new engines available, but because I really enjoy it. You have to fly the 152 not just sit in an airborne motorised pram. It is easier to get in and out of too. The CFI always said that when he was conducting a CPL exam he could always tell who had initially been taight in a 152 because they knew what to do with the rudder instead of using the pedals as a footrest.
BEagle, the C152 will also climb with full flap - admittedly not the 40 degrees of the 150, but nevetheless it will still climb - albeit slowly.

[TractorBoy]

For me it was cost. In general, a C152 is about £20 per hour cheaper to hire. That works out at least £900 over the entire course. A checkout in a PA28 will prob. cost you £400 after you have passed, compared to a checkout in a 152 for around £300.

So you will save £1000 in getting your licence and still be authorised to fly both aeroplanes. And that's if you pass in exactly 45 hours. Any more and the saving goes up.

[gazum172]

I did my ppl training with C150's, and after qualifying I flew PA 28's, both Cherokees / Archers, C172's and a Robin. Now flying a C172 with a small group. I prefer the high wing aircraft.

[DBisDogOne]

C152 vs PA28:

Not alot in it in my view, I trained in both, if you are tall you will find the 152 rather cramped. I'm 6'1" and couldn't feel my legs after a couple of hour flight! Also if you are.... a little 'broad of beam' (OK, rather fat) the same lack of space width-wise will be an issue unless your instructor is a lovely young lady:E.

Flight-wise, they both have their quirks, high wing better vis below but crap in turns in the circuit, some say harder to land too, I've not found this personally. Low wingers better all round vis, more powerful and more room. you pays your money, although less in a 152!!

Other thing to consider is condition, I've seen some lovely PA28's & 152's around and flown some total minging old dogs too, it's like comparing cars, some will have been looked after and drive well, yet another example of the same thing may be a dangerous wreck.:eek:

People swear by/at each type, best thing to do is try both and use what YOU are comfortable with, it's YOUR money and YOU are training.

Good luck.

[Alogan]

Personally I prefer the C150/152, but I haven't spent much time in the PA28. From my limited experience however, I found the PA28 more stable and easier to fly straight and level, which probably isn't a very good quality in a trainer.

[JUST-local]

"the PA28-140 Cherokee has about the same as the C150/152."

Beagle, you usually give some good advice out on a wide range of threads but the statement above gave me and a few colleagues a good laugh earlier today.

rogerthat777, do the obvious and have a go in both, I'm sure you will realise that the PA28 (any variant) is a bigger and better aircraft. The cabin of any PA28 is wider than the 150/152 so its not compulsory to hold hands with your instructor unless they insist.

If you are down to a few hundred pounds to make a decision you should forget flight training now!

Above all don't worry to much about any one thing during your PPL training, you will be guided through your course all you have to do is attend regularly, do lots of homework relax and enjoy the experience. Easy!

[davidatter708]

Never had a problem with a c152 can land them just about perfect everytime. Turning base is a problem but you get used to it. The big thing for me is cheaper than a pa28 and aerobatable if you have an aerobat
Dave

[sternone]

aerobat they are utility if you don't have aerobat version, which is also fun! <spins etc...>

[FlyerFoto]

sternone said:

aerobat version

Ah, you mean one of these.....

http://paulcoulthread.fotopic.net/p45276670.html

(sorry -did you really think I'd be able to resist???)

[Saab Dastard]

My first flight was in a 152 - never again, I said!

You don't have to be fat to have insufficient space to move your right arm. If you have reasonably broad shoulders / large chest (and I am speaking of MALES here ;) ), then you will struggle with all but a very small instructor!

All the rest of my flying has been in PA28 / DR400.

SD

[Laichtown]

Doing my ppl in the 152. Doing solo circuits yesterday. Pretty good conditions to start with 3 knots straight down the runway. Instructor did 2 circuits first and was very happy with my handling so told me to do 45 mins alone. However after he got out I found the turn onto downwind very turbulent. Found difficulty keeping the aircraft balanced, did a few and decided to come down. Reported my difficulty on landing, but the other instructors in the circuit at the time said they thought conditions were fine.:confused:

Any thoughts?

[tmmorris]

You probably have different standards for what you consider bumpy. I know that now (250hrs) I am much more confident and relaxed in turbulent conditions than when I was first flying solo. So, don't let it worry you - you did the right thing (you weren't comfortable with the weather so you stopped).

Of course, now I fly bigger and more stable machines (PA28-180) which also makes the effect of turbulence less severe.

Tim

[tigerbatics]

PA 28 or C150? Neither if you ask me. Find a Piper Cub and lean to fly in that. Much more fun and much more satisfying than a regular spam can. If you learrn in a tail wheel machine it takes no longer because when you start you are a blank page to be written on and once you have your licence conversion to a nose wheel aeroplane takes only a circuit or two.

If, that is, you want to fly for fun and enjoyment. If you want to start a progression to an ATP then give up all thoughts of learning to fly and get your licence on a Diamond.

Take note of what Ed has said he is quite right.

[TheOddOne]

Take note of what Ed has said he is quite right.

Oh yeah, if you spend a few weeks following Ed's advice then matters will be decided for you, you simply won't be able to fit in a C152, width or weight-wise! Ask Ed, I'm sure he'll agree, they run pie-eating contests at WW on rainy days! (allegedly)

Also, slightly more seriously, look at the Annual membership fees at WW and factor them in...
TheOddOne

[FullyFlapped]

If you are down to a few hundred pounds to make a decision you should forget flight training now!

Yeah, that's the way to encourage people to follow their dreams ... :ugh::ugh::ugh:

FF :rolleyes:

[IRRenewal]

Learn in what YOU enjoy flying most.

They are both JAFAs.

PM me if you can't work out what a JAFA is. Let me just say the J stands for Just, the first A stands for Another, and the final A stands for Aircraft.

[tasa]

I suggest pa38 Tomahawk for ppl training. Cheap and good learning platform.