MCC, Where should I do it

[davidathomas42]

Just finished the CPL and all that good stuff, need to do my MCC now, where is good value at the moment? or should I pay more for a recognised place??

[LKMflyboy]

The MCC is just a tick in the box so do it where ever it's cheap and convenient for you... don't waste money on flying a particular type of a/c.

[BlueRobin]

An argument as old as the hills. It may help you pass a sim ride if you go for something fancy, but it is also a tick in the box. I'm going the cheap route as I am fast running out of cash :eek: (but the Halfpenny Green one doesn't look half bad having browsed the course manual) .

[swervin'mervin]

I did mine with Halfpenny green - it was great fun! On my first type rating (Jet) they commented on how good my MCC skills were - PS my employer didn't give a stuff what the hell I did it on just that I had one.

[CarbHeatIn]

I, and a lot of others I know, obtained my first airline job primarily because of where I did my MCC.

[MrHorgy]

Like others have said it's down to personal choice. Your learning techniques for operating in a dual pilot environment nothing more. That's not to say the course can't take in other pertinent points though.

I've chosen a provider that does the course on a heavy jet. Not only as a 'reward' for my hard slog during CPL IR, but also as it includes an element of JOC and is extended with some LOFT (Line Oriented Flying Training) thrown in as well, and as a bonus the opportunity to hand fly a bit.

People will harp on about just the tick in the box, but if prior to interview you have to shell out £500 for some sim lessons on type anyway, it's 6 of 1 and half a dozen of the other. You'll end up paying either way :sad:

Horgy

[yellowsubmarine]

I dont know where you are based in England but i have heard good things about the SIM and MCC course in general at Atlantic Flight Training based at Coventry airport

[Jobhunter]

Consider Ardex flightschool just outside Berlin. Course in English, 2160 Euro, and nice housing and restaurant in same building.

Instructors from Lufthansa, and Air Berlin.

It took me 5 days. I was looking for a good price, and I got it;)

[No Country Members]

People will harp on about just the tick in the box, but if prior to interview you have to shell out £500 for some sim lessons on type anyway, it's 6 of 1 and half a dozen of the other. You'll end up paying either way


This is very true. If it's a jet airline job your after, then you are going to need to get very familiar with handling a jet, which takes a bit of time, sweat and practice. At a sim test they will most likely want to see a combination of basic hand flying skills, basic instrument skills, and CRM. Without at least an insight into the speeds and new handling characteristics of the jet sim you will likely find yourself consumed by just one task. The MCC in a jet sim environment will therefore be good first experience, but one on which you will need to build, and to keep refreshing prior to interview. If it's not going to cost too much more then go to a jet sim. Did mine at European in Bournemouth some time back. Clockwork and old but it did the job of making me see the difference between jet and piston.

And yes it is just a tick in the box as well.

[EGCC4284]

http://www.hgfc.co.uk/htm/multicrew.htm

http://www.hgfc.co.uk/

Ask for Richard Moss

[Deano777]

Agreed with NCM

The MCC can be more than just a tick in the box, those who think that is all it is "can" be one step behind, for example, I did my MCC on a certain type, I then had a sim assessment with an airline on that very sim, suffice to say I got the job. Did the 25hrs on the MCC help with the assessment? you bet it did.
I also did the MCC with the CFI from my training organisation, and we were both in agreement that we would not have got as much out the course had we done it in an FNPTII, again this is just our opinion, but personally I think it's valid.

If funds are very tight (and they usually are after the CPL/IR) then yes you may have to do it "as cheap as possible". But if you have some spare cash I would definitely go for something more aircraft specific dependant on what type of job you are after.

D777

[badboy raggamuffin]

Did mine at European Aviation, Bournemouth, and can wholeheartedly recommend it. Good sim, the tristar, cheap 2400 If i remember right, dont think ull get a mcc on a full motion jet sim for that price anywhere else, and had a good laugh as well as learning a lot!

[Mercenary Pilot]

The fact that some people here used the MCC as a place to practice hand flying and learn jet operations just proves the point that its a duff course. The whole point of the exercise is to learn about CRM and working together in a Multi Crew aircraft apparently (not flying under bridges and stall turning A320's). ;)

I'm not disagreeing with Deano777 or No Country Members that it could be beneficial to some people, my point is that that's not really the point of an MCC course. Also, you may find that quite a few smaller airlines will sim check you on an FNPTII anyway.

You pays yer' money and yer' takes your choice I guess, if you can afford it then do a Level D sim MCC otherwise just do a cheapy...you will NOT be disadvantaged in the slightest from a recruitment point of view.

EGCC4284 I think you will find that most companies have to pay to advertise on PPRuNe :=

[Briandesnail]

Do the MCC on the type of A/c you intend to target with your jobsearch

Make it more than just a tick in the box

Bri

[Deano777]

Mercenary

Whilst the MCC is about the multi crew aspect you still have to fly the sim, you still fly routes, you still fly ILS' and non precision approaches (well, we did anyway), and you still deal with the emergencies, we did alot of hand flying on it which obviously meant we got used to how it feels and reacts. Had I done the MCC on an FNPTII I would have been in for a shock on the assessment.

The comments about the airlines not giving a stuff where you did the MCC are correct, but if you are wise you can get more out the course than just the MCC.

[moggiee]

EGCC4284 I think you will find that most companies have to pay to advertise on PPRuNe :=

MP - I think you'll find that EGCC4248 has no connection to the company in question except, perhaps as a satisfied customer.

[Gullyone]

Gt the best of both worlds and do the MCC in OATs FNPT2 pretend 737.
Flys like the real thing and can be quite cheap.

[U220]

I just done my MCC at London MET University, have to say it was great, learnt a lot. Sim was a BE 200, I don't subscribe to the tick in the box brigade or that it has to be done in a all singing all dancing sim. But where ever you go do the work before you arrive (see my post MCC) Anyone who takes the attiude of tick in the box misses the whole point of MCC. Good Luck

[moggiee]

Anyone who takes the attiude of tick in the box misses the whole point of MCC.
Spot on there - you get out what you put in.

[Mercenary Pilot]

MP - I think you'll find that EGCC4248 has no connection to the company in question except, perhaps as a satisfied customer

Of course you would say that...You run the MCC for the company in question I believe! Not saying that theres anything wrong with happy customers,the best courses are advertised by word of mouth after all but direct links are not allowed if your not paying to advertise (like all those poxy hour building companies keep doing)....Come on, support PPRuNe! :ok:

Deano777 I'm glad to hear that you got so much out of your MCC (and congrats on the job too) but my view is that MCC courses are pretty unnessesary because the theory aspects are covered by the airline you work for and practical aspects are covered by the type rating. My personal feeling is that most courses seem to be run by guys so out of touch with modern CRM that its absolutly pointless anyway! As I said, from an employment point of view it IS a tick in the box.

[7E7Flyer]

try http://www.eaac.co.uk/flight_training/mcc_courses.jsp

I did my MCC there and can only say good things about this place. Great value (full motion sim) for money (£2399 incl VAT). The sim experience is definitely going to help with job interviews and is good fun. The guy who runs the course definitely knows his stuff.

By the way in your spare time you can use all the other sims there for free, although motion off if there isn't an instructor around; i.e. you basically get a lot of free FNPT time.

[LKMflyboy]

"Anyone who takes the attitude of tick in the box misses the whole point of MCC."

When I originally stated that an MCC is just a tick in the box, I didn't mean from a learning point of view, but from the opinion that the type of sim makes no difference. The whole point of an MCC is to teach just that - Multi Crew Co-operation. Whether a full motion jet sim or a fixed base turbo prop is used is irrelevant. The quality of the teaching and not the aircraft type should be the consideration.

For those that argue a jet sim will help when they later have an interview and sim check, do you all assume you will be gaining your first commercial job on a heavy jet?

The other thing to consider is the time it can take to gain employment after your MCC... you might well have to wait 6 months, a year or even longer before getting that first break - just how useful will that long forgotten MCC be then?

Anyway, just my thoughts...

For the record I did my MCC at London Met (excellent course BTW) and then when I did eventually get a sim check, 20 months later, I used the guys at Jetlinx for some specific practice, flying the profiles that comprised my sim assessment.

[moggiee]

saying that theres anything wrong with happy customers,the best courses are advertised by word of mouth after all but direct links are not allowed if your not paying to advertise ....Come on, support PPRuNe! :ok:

Given that the recommendation was unsolicited (and therefore all the more relevant!) it's hardly appropriate to expect the company that receives the recommendation to pay! Would you like all such recommendations removed from the Wanabees forum? If so, it's will wipe out a great many of the posts!

[apruneuk]

Did mine at London Met in the B200 sim. Excellent value (£2k earlier this year) and a good intro. to multi-crew ops. which is what it is all about really. If you want to practice flying a jet, save yourself a lot of money and buy Microsoft Flightsim!

[BellyAir]

just completed MCC at European Aviation where they use a full motion Tristar sim (soon to be replaced with 737-200).

Access to the sim must be second to none and we were often in there until 9:30 and beyond (although not full motion once the instructors have gone home, or any motion come to that).

At £2400 it's got to be one of the cheapest too.

...and Angela on reception is a hotty.

[phillipsmw]

I'll echo what BellyAir said....

I've just done my MCC at European in Bournemouth on the Tristar. People say it doesnt matter what sim you do it on, but a full motion jet sim is good fun after the stresses of the CPL/IR.

The instruction's very good and you get free reign on the sim at night, with motion off, as long as an engineer's around.

I'd recommend it to anyone considering where to do the MCC

Plus its the cheapest on the airfield. Bonus!

[Busy Climbing]

I agree to a certain extent with what's being said about MCC being a tick in the box (which on some application forms, it actually is), but for £2400 the European course isn't expensive, and for 20hrs full motion Tristar action I think it's good value.

Of course the Multi-Crew perspective is the most important, but surely that's never going to be taught to a poor standard is it? It should be a given on an MCC that you'll come away from it more multi-crew minded, and if you don't the CAA need to look at the course!

So maybe the type of equipment you'll be using should be the deciding factor, alongside budget of course! The realisation of how different a big jet can be, managing the energy levels during approach, descent planning, is a long way more useful than bombing round in a big Seneca FNPT2 for £2k.

Your call but I know where i'd go again.

[Cruise Contrail]

Yep,
I'd have to agree with the last few posts. I did mine at European in Bournemouth a couple of months ago. Good instructor, reasonable value, full-motion sim, and actually had fun! ... Such a relief after all the CPL/IR stress.
And the best bit was the extra free time in the evenings alone in the sim. So you can practice to your hearts content all that raw data flying that seem to be popular at assesments :ok:
cc

[Tiny Tango]

I've just finished the MCC with European and its great value for money. The course costs 2400 but not only do you get the MCC course which is well taught in itself but you get to spend all evening in it free of charge!!(without an instructor and with the motion off) Good oppurtunity to do some hand flying...