Thomas Cook Pilots set for Industrial Action ?

[fly707s]

Any truth in a rumour I heard today that Thomas Cook pilots are to be balloted for industrial action regarding attempts by the company to demote and make redundant full-time UK pilots whilst at the same time bring in seasonal Canadian contract Captains and F/Os ?

[monkeyboy]

It's looking that way...

[NACUD]

This winter (07/08) TCX pilots are going to fly in both the LHS and RHS for Skyservice.

This arrangement benefits pilots in both airlines.

In fact this year some temporary Captains in the TCX Group may well keep their commands by volunteering to go to Canada.

Industrial action, I would seriously hope not.

[RoyHudd]

Rubbish, NACUD...your viewpoint identifies you as one of the new management lackeys, of which thankfully there are only a few. I grant, however, you are fully entitled to your opinion, and to express it.


The mood in both pilot workforces of the to-be-merged airline is indeed militant, and feelings are running high for a number of reasons. Most sensitive is the threat of redundancies and demotions, whilst hired hands from Canada work here in Summer. The winter offset argument holds no water. Other bones of contention exist, and they are by no means trivial. The level of trust in the new pilot and airline management is at a minimum.

[fly707s]

I wasn't aware there were temporary Captains at TCX. It seems to me strange that the aircraft are not dry-leased to one another and rather churlish to demote and fire UK pilots only to replenish them with Canadian contract pilots.

I'd say that if these are the company's plans, then it is heading for a Public Relations disaster.

[Phileas Fogg]

How about having a word in the shell-like's of the UK/EU people that issue work permits, surely UK/EU person(s) cannot be put on the dole whilst Canadians or whoever move in to take their jobs!

No wonder the UK is in such the state that it is.

[Crewing's Slave]

NACUD is talking rubbish.

There is no such thing as a temporary Captain at Thomas Cook.

Management fool!!!!

[NACUD]

Just to correct a minor point Hudd, I have nothing to do with management. However, I do want the merger to be a success, as do, I suspect the vast majority of pilots in both airlines. I have yet to experience any of the militancy that you claim exists. Most people understand the rationale for the merger and the short term pain that goes with it.

The future for both companies is now much brighter and providing Balpa and the Company both approach the consultations with a positive outlook we will all benefit in the long run.

What I will not do is allow the spreading of false rumours and innuendo to go unchallenged by a few individuals with their own agenda.

The nature of mergers is that there are job losses and now that the number is down to 73 from 100 I suspect that no pilot will be made compulsory redundant and all who leave will do so voluntarily.

Please explain why the “winter offset argument holds no water”.

CS. MYT part of the TCX Group has 5 temporary captains this summer.

[fly707s]

What I will not do is allow the spreading of false rumours and innuendo to go unchallenged by a few individuals with their own agenda.

I have no agenda whatsoever and merely quoted a rumour I heard today that there was trouble brewing. What exactly is the false rumour ? If you are a pilot NACUD for MYT, surely you cannot condone redundancies and demotions whilst at the same welcoming Canadians across the pond to take their seats ? Sounds like a horror show to me for First Officers and junior Captains in the new merged airline.

[NACUD]

70, it is not a question of condoning redundancies or demotions, but when companies in any industry unite, including aviation, individuals are going to be disadvantaged. Companies merge to become more efficient and in some cases to ensure survival. Regrettably there will almost always be casualties along the way, from all parts of the merging companies.

These situations need to be handled with care and consideration by all parties involved in the negotiations.

As a reminder MYT have had a long association with Skyservice, who were part of the MyTravel North American business and are now within the TCX Group. Thomas Cook is a global business.

Is it not hypocritical to expect and allow UK pilots to go to Canada in the winter and reject a reciprocal agreement whereby Canadians are not allowed to come here? First Choice have also been sending pilots to Canada, along with MYT for quite a number of years and for certain individuals, who may have taken advantage to spend a winter in Canada to now get on their high horse smacks of double standards.

[Seven Fifty Seven]

I'm obviously going to work with my head in the sand on a daily basis. Good rumour though. Not heard a peep of this and I've been flying a lot just lately, from all bases.

[fly707s]

As I suggested earlier, why are the aircraft not just dry-leased to one another ?

I have to say I am not a fan of these leasing arrangements. It seems to me that it is a way of getting more productivity out of pilots in the off season, benefits a select chosen few who want extra money and means career progression for First Officers is stifled whilst employment prospects for UK pilots is reduced.

I hope what I've been hearing doesn't come to fruition for all involved at TCX, but it seems the new group DFO has a history of bullying. That may well have worked when MYT was on its knees not so long ago and employees were grateful to still have a job. None of my business really, I have no connection with either airline, but I understand that the resolve amongst the Thomas Cook pilots is that they are not going to take demotions and redundancies lightly whilst foreign pilots are drafted in.

I believe not so long ago, before the merger, the company was forced to back down over the issue of LHS foreigners coming across. I understand the same level of anger exists this time round.

[RoyHudd]

I feel sad to read your aggressive modern thoughts.
The agenda is of the 100 (73 is just a rumour) because they will lose their jobs. That's what drives them. Unsurprisingly.
Behind them follow those additional loyal folk now due demotions and/or relocations. That's a piffling percentage of the work force in your books, perhaps 25%, but behind these 160+ people lie income, dependant wives/husbands and children and relatives and families and teachers and friends and homes and pets and schools, in fact the solid basis for their present stable lives.
How can you pontificate on commercial gains, whilst riding rough-shod over those who are to suffer on the sacrificial altar of ROI and IBT? And then have the audacity to write of double standards. And justify the commercial gain with pain. Not yours, my friend.
Shame on you. There is absolutely no need for pilot job losses, as well you know. As do the guys and gals at MYT and TCX.
Giving out the mantra of better airline/more security, etc is deceitful and dishonest, Mr. NACUD. The new, successful company, for which all its selected employees wish, need not replace a chunk of its existing loyal pilot work force with contract pilots, expat opportunists, a flow of well-meaning, vastly inexperienced and recently-proven dangerous cadets, along with Canadian job-swappers. This is smoke and mirrors, as well you know.But you will continue, I am sure.Forget humans, worship profit.
The enormous bonuses of the managers you so admire explain your position. And you will probably succeed.
Bravo.

[Dreamshiner]

"Dangerous Cadets" Eh?

Everyone has to start out somewhere, were you solving equasions in the first few years at primary school?

I don't think its fair to band about hardship faced by the currently employed and their dependents and in the same breath suggest a lot of newly qualified guys shouldn't be given a nod.

As for this issue with the Canadians, I think its safe to assume that there is a lot more to it than is currently being discussed on here. Possibly existing contracts or agreements set in stone years ago.

I must admit, I'd prefer it if the UK industry was protected a bit more for UK citizens as it seems to be in every other European state (even though its illegal to openly admit it, they get round it).

It may be of use with this thread if all posters form now state if they are employed by either MYT or TCX as it adds a level of credibility to their argument (as in the case of Seven Fifty Seven).

Me, I'm employed by neither.

[fantom]

May this be moved to the TCX private forum ?

Do we want to wash our laundry in public?

[NACUD]

Hudd,

The figure 73 is now on the Balpa web site which I understand is the reduced number after the initial consultations. It may even fall further.

Please explain your rationale for no job losses. The fleet size is being reduced by 4 aircraft and the combined airline, especially the long haul fleet, will be able to operate more efficiently. Out of interest there are quite a number of pilots hoping for a generous redundancy package and if the Company has any sense they will provide one. Others will see it as an opportunity and take the package on offer and move to pastures new. 4 years ago no individual was made compulsory redundant from MYT and I expect the same will happen this time.

All of us in MYT, me included, and TCX face an uncertain and difficult few months while we wait for all the issues surrounding the merger to be announced.

Please don’t demean the cadet pilots. All those that remain have done extremely well and operate to very high standards. Balpa agreed to a limited number as part of the pilot work force. All of them will be seeking alternative employment this winter.

You seem to indicate that companies do not have to make a profit. They are a necessary evil. Try asking those individuals who worked for over 70 UK airlines that have gone bust in the last 50 years and were forced to seek alternative employment. No company has a god given right to exist.

One area that we may agree on is that management bonuses are excessive and on many occasions are not justified. Unfortunately, most of management within British industry is inflicted with this disease.

[Torque2]

NACUD Balpa did not agree to any cadets as part of the pilot workforce, they are not counted towards total pilot numbers. As for your assertion that they will be looking for jobs elsewhere again you may be wrong, you wont have to wait too long to find out.

[bullshot]

NACUD

Sorry chum - I just don't buy it that you are not connected with management....

The spin, the euphemisms, the cold indifference to colleague's and their families lives being uneccessarily shattered...

No my friend, you are so management you either are, or are closely connected to, someone who's name ironically suggests wisdom of biblical magnitude..

Shame on you.

[Jet efflux]

Bullshot,
Bullseye. Reckon you have the measure of our colleague above.
Seven fifty seven,
I have to disagree. Feelings are running high across plenty of the bases and the call to be balloted on industrial action is getting louder.
What I just don't understand is the proposed number of redundancies and demotions, given that the plan to return the 3 TCX aircraft was established nearly 12 months ago. There's no way 'synergies' are gonna equate to saving 70+ plus pilots.

[finlaggan]

NACUD,
Perhaps you'd care to volunteer to be "disadvantaged" to save one of your colleagues having it forced upon them. Sounds like such a trivial matter couched in your terms...

[NACUD]

Sorry to disappoint, but I am not in management, never have been and have no desire to be.

Torque2, you may wish to check with the CC to confirm that they have allowed the Company to employ up to 16 cadets at anyone time. Around 12 are currently flying with MYT. If you wish to discuss the morality of what the Company is doing by way of charging over £30,000 for a type conversion and 150 hours of line training, before being paid for gainful employment, then we may be in agreement. All the cadets leave at the end of October and as you say the Company is trying to find employment for them.

Strange, how when anyone voices a different view or disagrees with what is perceived to be in line with normal pilot opinion they are denigrated and vilified. Not to worry, I guess it is part of life’s rich pattern that one has to accept.

By all means continue to take shots in my direction, but you may also wish to consider that 3 directors in TCX were awarded approximately £200,000 of shares for being responsible for the successful merger, in addition to purchasing £1.8m of shares for future bonuses, while at the same time announcing 2300 redundancies.

As Lima or Alpha Junk mentioned this subject raises serious issues and it is sad that the debate has already headed south. I have no problem with anyone disagreeing with what I have written. We all have opinions and hopefully are free to express them without the vitriol that is sometimes directed at those who beg to differ.

Lima and others, you may wish to consider how our industry has changed over the last 20 years. Companies, such as UK inclusive tour operators with their own airlines are now global and part of their assets are planes and pilots. It seems to make sense that these assets are moved around the business to take advantage of high and low seasons in the different countries that they do business. Using the MYT example you say:

“How anyone can justify making redundancies whilst Canadians are able to come in and earn extra money in their quiet period is beyond me.”

As a reminder MYT as well as FCA pilots go to Canada and have done for a number of years during our quiet periods. (Even during the period when Canadian airlines such as Canada 3000, were going out of business) Would you be happy that these opportunities are not available to UK pilots? There has never been any lack of volunteers and I suspect this winter will be no different. I think it also needs to be considered that if there was no exchange of pilots between Skyservice and MYT there is a possibility that both companies may fully crew for their busy seasons and lay off pilots in their quiet season. I, for one hope that the charter industry never treats pilots in the same way as it does seasonal cabin crew, some of whom are in their 5th season as a temporary with MYT. Is it not better to have pilots fully employed throughout the year so that not only do they remain flying but can also join a companies pension scheme after 6 months service?

I agree that it does seem that the UK is not as robust as other countries when it comes to employing nationals, but I would venture to suggest that far more UK pilots work overseas than do foreigners in this country. And while this is no comfort to those seeking their first flying job we need to be careful that we do not become too hidebound by our perceptions and keep an open mind, while remembering that many of us now work for a global company.

History has taught us that the harsh reality of the industry we work in has far more failures than successes and as I approach doubles figures on the number of experiences I have had with failed airlines or redundancies I find it difficult to accept lectures from those who take the moral high ground.

[bermudatriangle]

where is this NACUD guy coming from.....of course people are concerned when an unsecure future becons.......the older guys will want to take a generous severance package...maybe,if it suits their plans,the benefit being that plenty of jobs for 757/bus pilots are out there and a generous payoff puts them in a very nice position.having said that,the majority are well under 55 and are hoping for many more years plodding to the regular destinations and accruing pension and seniority......situations like this give us all sleepless nights.

[Torque2]

NACUD the cadet pilots are not employed as line pilots or replace any line pilot, the CC is quite clear on the matter. The company WANTED to use the cadets in the actual pilot headcount but it has never happened.

I am not in favour of extracting monies for line sectors but the company will continue to do it whilst they can turn a dollar, even though they say differently

[NACUD]

Lima,

In TCX it may have been the same faces, in MYT it was not and over the years due to various reasons both senior and junior pilots had the opportunity of going to Canada. In fact some of those at the very bottom of the seniority list have done a number of detachments.

If dry leases became the norm what would you do with the surplus pilots who remained in the UK?

I would suggest that as we move forward with the merger the subject of reciprocal arrangements between airlines within the TCX Group will be high on the agenda of the CC. I suggest you make you views known to them as they will be negotiating on our behalf. I just happen to believe that to date the arrangement between Skyservice and MYT has benefited all parties and unless I am convinced otherwise it will continue to do so for the long term.

As far as my position is concerned I wait to hear how I may be affected. Until announcements are made and the merger of the seniority lists is decided no one can be sure how they will be affected. In a previous life I have twice been in the firing line for redundancy and suffered when companies have gone bust or been taken over.

As far as your assumption that individuals “are being demoted out of base” I would be grateful for an explanation as nothing has yet been announced and I think at this stage it is premature to make assumptions.

There may also be no compulsory dismissals if enough volunteers opt for voluntary redundancy. More importantly, if the Company has got any sense it will offer a generous package to senior Captains and if enough take up the offer there may even be promotions next summer or at the very least junior captains may retain their commands. I understand that the CC is working hard to persuade the Company of the benefit of this to both the morale of the pilots and the reduced future wage bill.

[stansdead]

NACUD

Why don't you take voluntary redundancy and do the TCX boys a favour?

You sound like Captain nightmare. I am glad I will never have to fly with you.

[kissmyjetpipe]

its not right. if canadian pilots were looseing there jobs there is no way you would be aloud to go and work there, so it works both ways. thomas cook gain by cheap labour and getting rid of exspensive british pilots, good luck with balpa they wont do much, we have had this for years in my airline, and we are laying pilots of Oh and next yyeasr 4 canadian aircraft will fly for us, as I say cheap pilots.

[Captain Douglas]

NACUD

I have to agree with LA. You are clearly in the LHS for MYT far enough up the seniority list to remain unaffected. I sincerely hope your sentiments are not shared throughout MYT.

It sounds like you have your bags packed for Winnipeg already for this winter!!

[bullshot]

Something still doesn't quite add up regarding NACUD's 'non-management' status.

Perhaps he is not management - perhaps he is a Director! Now - that would be a solumn one!

I am in any case encouraged that his (and our) colleagues in MYT are not queueing up to share his enthusiasm to see some of our Pilots "disadvantaged".

Thanks Guys & look forward to operating with you.:D

[RoyHudd]

NACUD's statements are not representative of the MYT pilot workforce, to put it mildly. This is intended for TCUK people, not to provoke another inhuman response from the afore-mentioned twit:ugh:

[Torque2]

Thank you Roy, you are quite correct on your assuption. Most of us feel as you do, Nacud is in a very select minority.

[Torque2]

It is merged as of today;)

[reliant robin]

It'll be interesting to hear more from MYT pilots.

Seems to me that the only (potential) losers are in the TCX camp.

Am I wrong?

[Crewing's Slave]

Very wrong....

[Down Three Greens]

Trust me...MYT crewing feel at the other end of the scale.

[foxmoth]

Whilst I am not standing alongside NACUD I do not see how
If the company is unable to find new markets in the winter, then temporary summer pilots is the solution not foreign guys drafted in on recipricol agreements to the benefit of a few individuals whose work line is picked up by those remaining. works in favour of the guys already in - surely it just means the co. lays off more guys total (to meet the now reduced winter requirement) and is then taking on temp summer pilots that are not necessarily those already in the company who are about to lose their jobs. Please can you explain how this is going to work to our advantage?:confused:

[reliant robin]

Crewing's slave and DTG,

thanks for the replies to what was a genuine question.

Hope MYT and TCX crews can work together on this one.

robin

[763 jock]

Seems that our colleagues in Condor may have a fight on their hands as well. The synergy word is in there somewhere!
www.thomascookgroup.com
Merger of Condor and Air Berlin announced.:confused:

[reliant robin]

Aaaaah yes SYNERGY

Greek derivation syn - ergo working together?

Or not working at all

Or being demoted

Or losing terms and conditions

[Crewing's Slave]

An indicative ballot has been actioned.

My vote has been cast.

We will not be bullied like this.

[randomair]

Out of interest...when was the last mytravel pilot promoted PERMANENTLY to the LHS?
And it begars belief to think NACUD even mentioned the fact that there may be promotions next year??
....yes there may be, but if there is to be..it will only be guys that are being repromoted??
50....demotions....thats got to be AT LEAST 5-6 years worth of promotions....so Captians that have been made up since 2001 would be at threat. Add that to the current wait for a tcx command (9 years) and your looking at 14-15 years for job in the LHS. THATS BA FIGURES!! For a fraction of the wage!!!
How exactly is that benefiting the pilot communtity in the long term??

[randomair]

Oh yes and my vote had also been cast...we will not allow our mate Solomon to wave his d**k around.

[fantom]

Mine too...

[beardy]

It must have had the fastest turnround of post in my house!

[Down Three Greens]

Last permenant MYT command....four years might be a good estimate. :{

[ramjett18]

Hi, I received an email today asking for pilots to go to Canada this winter, from both MYT and TCX, to operate both airbus and boeing aircraft. It also stated that the company was also looking for pilots on FIXED contracts, if they would like to stay on for the winter season. Another twist to the plot.

[foxmoth]

I think you have misunderstood me. I am certainly not advocating laying off anyone and then getting in temporary summer pilots.

You may not be advocating this - but if we have pilots sitting around in the winter, how long before the company does?:eek:

[RoyHudd]

Look at the big picture Foxmoth....methinks you are at no risk of demotion and enjoy your winter bonus out East or West..maybe for your retirement or private plane...who knows?

However some folk are not so fortunate.

And consider the principle of temporary labour, which ultimately hits everybody's T & C's. Even yours.

[Jonty]

I think you have misunderstood me. I am certainly not advocating laying off anyone and then getting in temporary summer pilots.
You may not be advocating this - but if we have pilots sitting around in the winter, how long before the company does?
If past years are anything to go by, management spout this stuff all the time and then we all end up working our backsides off all winter.
Some of our guys were flying 90 hours a month last winter (tcx) ask them about seasonal imbalances!

[foxmoth]

I do not head for Canada in the winter so it is not a problem for me if we do or do not do it and if it does go I wait with interest to see what the company does, my own feeling is that they will shed more permanent pilots and use more temp pilots in the summer which actually achieves the reverse of what everyone wants,and I very much doubt that this will actually cause them to retain any more, if you feel that is not the case then good luck to you - I will not stand in your way.:hmm:

[foxmoth]

Unlike NACUD who seems very upset by the idea of the Canadian exchange going I am really not too concerned either way, - as you have picked up I am unlikely to be effected by the merger,in fact not being effected I think makes it easier to look at this objectively, but it is very easy to get blinkered with what you think and IMHO this could actually turn round the wrong way, NACUD seems absolutely convinced of this, I am not so sure but believe people do need to think about it and that is why I am playing devils advocate. If we do stop going to Canada I hope I am wrong. I am not interested in getting further into this argument and will wait with interest to see what actually happens, whatever happens I hope for minimum job losses and wish the best for those at the lower end of the seniority lists.:ok:

[NACUD]

So let me see if I have got this straight about what is being said and what is being supported. In essence:

“temporary summer pilots is the solution”

The result being:

Dry leased aircraft to Canada for the winter that would result in both LHS and RHS pilots being laid off or LHS pilots being demoted (because of seniority) and RHS pilots having some free time. Or, just F/Os going to and from the UK and Canada, with LHS seats being filled by nationals, who are then either laid off or demoted during the quiet periods.

Whatever way you look at it temporary summer pilots, be they either short-term summer Captains followed by demotion in the winter or F/Os on a summer only contract is an extremely poor solution. It would be the first step to pilots being recruited on transitory contracts in the same way that cabin crew are. I would be surprised if any individual would be willing to accept such a contract unless they were desperate or prepared to pay over £30,000 for a type conversion course. Temporary contracts do not usually attract any of the benefits that are part of permanent employment contracts and need to be avoided like the plague.

The preferred way forward, as expressed by the majority on this thread, seems to be to deny permanent employment opportunities to others while looking after number 1.

What is quite patently being failed to be grasped is the fact that the agreement actually creates full time permanent positions in both seats for each airline. And if you don’t believe me ask a member of the MYT CC who have agreed the policy with management for a good number of years. It has also been known for a member of the CC to go to Canada for the winter.

This winter the plan is to send a number of aircraft and if those aircraft were not to go it is quite plausible that the company could decide that they were surplus to requirements and either return them to the lease company or dry lease them to another airline. There would then be a requirement for further redundancies. The Canadian flying would undoubtedly be done by our competitors and the flying that those aircraft would have done next summer could then be subbed out to the likes of Monarch, Excel and others.

There are far bigger issues to be tackled than this misunderstanding that has apparently so wound up a number individuals, who have not taken the time or the trouble to adequately research all the issues involved.

For those of you who may have taken part in the web chat a few nights ago or since read the transcript on the TCX/MYT portal it would be far more advantageous to concentrate on ensuring that we are all working to the same contracts of employment, (because at the moment they are quite different), a common scheduling agreement, day off payment scheme to name but a few. Because, reading between the lines of some of the answers the Company may be prepared to start operating differently.

Do not allow yourselves or the CC to become distracted by an issue that will, in time go away.

[Jonty]

So whats to stop the company doing more of it in the future? Fast
forward to 2009 and 3 new aircraft show up along with 30 canadians to fly them in both the left and right seat, again no promotions for tcx crews and no recrutment. Or even if there was no expansion, but 20 capatins retired, 20 more canadian capatins then come over and still no promotion or recrutment.

All this while the company is trying to demote and sack lots of UK pilots. So lets see who exactly is looking after number one.

May be NACUD you could volunteir to be demoted or made redundant so one of your canadian friends could come over and replace you?

Most of us agree that the SSV contract should continue in some form, so lets get rid of all this talk of redundancies and demotions and lets work out how to run this contract so we all benefit.

[reliant robin]

Am I correct in summing up the previous two posts in this way.

The Canadian contracts are ok so long as MYT/TCX crews are NOT under threat. (And the deal is negotiated properly through BALPA)

Right now these crews ARE under threat

So no Canadians (or any other temporary contract employees).


It that's what you're saying, I fully agree

[Crewing's Slave]

I agree with Jonty.

It's the thin end of the wedge. Continue with this ex-MYT practice, and you can kiss goodbye to any future with the new TCX.

I've got no problem with Canadian / US guys making up the numbers, in the RHS only, as long as there are no redundancies.

No redundancies = No demotions. Tupe.

I'm sure Manny will realise that we don't want any dispute going into the first 'Peaks' of the new company. Just won't look too good to the shareholders.

Maybe others (FP / SS) will follow Mr Bloodworth, as this is not the way people are managed in Thomas Cook.

Let's hope this is sorted before the press get hold of it..

The pilots will not back down wrt the Canadian issue.

CS

[Crewing's Slave]

Results out this morning of indicative ballot......

98% in favour on a return of 79% of papers dispatched.

Pretty conclusive.

CS

[number 7]

How do they have the neck to talk about redundancies while planning to have temporary crew from overseas next year!

Time to ground some aeroplanes, and to hell with the shareholders.:*

[reliant robin]

tin tin, Crewing's Slave and number 7

Like you, I am not at all impressed by the "Sabre rattling" management

of the companies formerly known as MYT and TCX.


Live by the sword, die by the sword


I just hope BALPA and it's members have the balls for it!

[beardy]

They do, but they could always use another willing hand.

[Crewing's Slave]

If we loose this then there is no point in working for an outfit that rides so rough-shod over it's employees.

So, you ask are we up for it?

I ask, what have we got to loose. Accept this, and we are surely accepting the thin edge of a never ending wedge, and I'd rather work for a different outfit to be honest. Why should managament rake in millions of dollars in synergy bonuses, while there are numerous guys at risk of redundancy and demotion?

There aren't many who post on here from MYT/TCX, but rest assured the feeling is just as strong on the combined Balpa website.

Bring it on. Peaks just around the corner. We're in a strong position.

CS

[RoyHudd]

Getting much closer to industrial action now. Can the pilots hold their nerve? Personally, I think so.

[Hover Overviewer]

Are you guy's going to take action or is it just more hot air.

I notice that the peak is just around the corner, which peak is that?
From where I am sitting Winter Season is just around the corner and traditionally that is the quieter time.

Have they filled the winter Canadian complement or as you don't want the Canadians over here in the summer has this detachment been cancelled.

You can't have it both ways!!!!!

And no I am not management at TCX/MYT left that some time ago

[Jonty]

whether we take action or not depends on the on going consultation with the company.

When we talk of peaks we mean the peak booking season for new holidays. Just after Christmas. A strike is not really what you want customers focusing on when they are looking to book their summer holiday.

As far as I know no captains are going over to Canada to operate in the left seat, but could be wrong. But some FOs are, much to the disgust of the rest of us.

I think a left seat to left seat agreement is unacceptable to the majority of the work force no matter what happens. A RHS agreement can be reached if there are no compulsory redundancies.

[Airlifter]

As far as I know no captains are going over to Canada to operate in the left seat, but could be wrong. But some FOs are, much to the disgust of the rest of us.

Both FCA/TUI and MYT/TCX Captains are deploying to Canada this winter to operate Skyservice aircraft as captains/left seat.

In the know,

Airlifter

[RoyHudd]

Scabs, just self-interested scabs

[Jonty]

Both FCA/TUI and MYT/TCX Captains are deploying to Canada this winter to operate Skyservice aircraft as captains/left seat.
That is very sad news. And just goes to show that when the pound signs flash, some people will sell their soul for a few extra quid.:sad::sad:

[78deg]

TUI Captains have been asked by BALPA to only go if we have an agreement. I hope this is respected.

[piper pervert]

What is the general consensus on the voluntary package that TCX pilots have been sent. Do you think there will be many takers?

PP

[randomair]

Probably.

Potential redundancy figures reduced from 100 to 6, without anyone accepting the VS package.
The main drive for people accepting the package is to try and reduce the potential demotions.....which currently stands at about 45ish, i think.

randomair

[763 jock]

I hear that so far 27 have accepted the EVS package. I'd be amazed if anyone is demoted or made redundant. :ok:

[piper pervert]

Great news!:ok:

Recruitment anyone? ;)