Clark Aviation 12 month MPL program -not achievable???? [Archive]

Zone 220

10th Sep 2007, 06:57

I've heard that batch 1 and batch 2 haven't started their flying phase yet, though they are through with ground schooling still they cannot proceed to accomplished flying core because number 1 reason is: The aircraft's
C of R and C of A haven't been released by the regulatory in philippines which is ATO.

Second, eventhough these documents were released, there is not a single flight instructor in the island who holds the rating for this aircraft..not even ATO... This is the first time Alpha Robin aircraft will be used in this country (Philippines)....

Now the latest i've heard was that batch 3 have completed their ground schooling last Aug which means they will be joining the qeue with batch 1 & 2.

Now, is it still possible for Clark Aviation to achieved that promised "12 month" program????? Nobody knows!!! Even the school administrator themselves are not transparent with their milestone:rolleyes:.

I am one of those who are planning to enroll but at this time, i think i'll hold my decision first until such time i hear a good development like batch 1, 2 & 3 are already doing their flying core....

Hope that this thread will catch their attention and do some positive actions on their part...

RAfault

11th Sep 2007, 06:08

The program needs to have a thorough oversight to determine whether it could take the place of current system of pilot training. How the candidates would adopt to new aircraft systems and technology plus their adaptability to line oriented flying given the limited experience have yet to be studied and needs to be supervised by the regulatory authority or the airline sponsoring the program. The concept is trailblazing but it has to be done with extreme caution and supervision.

paolylo

12th Sep 2007, 11:37

this thread didn't just get my attention, it bothers me that your post puts Clark Aviation in a bad light. for someone who's just planning to enroll here, you obviously know a lot more than most of us at CIA.

there's a good reason why we're told not to worry whenever anyone of us brings up the issue. millions and millions of Php have already been invested in this school and yet most people fail to realize that this institution is still in its infancy stages. at this point, i don't mind if indeed the ones who put up this school assumed it was that easy to get CR's/CA's and have someone rated to fly (and train people with) a light aircraft that's never been seen in this country. some of us who entered this school are taking the risk in believing that the MPL will be the way of the future as far as training pilots are concerned (a handful of cadets here are sons of pilots from respectable airliners).

i can't speak for the first 3 batches who are supposed to be flying but their time waiting should be (or is already) compensated for. as far as i'm concerned, this program is very, very tough (top it off with the strict regulations in the ground school) and administrative issues should be the least of our concerns. the people who run this place aren't your typical Philippine college yearbook editor who'll run away with everyone's money. there is progress going on. each week, someone from the ATO checks on the school's status... and occassionally representatives from other airlines such as Gulf Air have expressed interest in sponsoring cadets like Cebu Pacific when the school started out.

for future applicants, the admission process may be much more competitive once the school is already established and further developed.

Cheers! :ok:

SAD IN QAC

12th Sep 2007, 12:29

kwl paolylo

kurimaw

12th Sep 2007, 13:03

MPL....

One of the good opportunites for a pilot wannabe....
due to pilot shortage in our country...

but the price is too expensive but there is a good result for that???

i don't know....! it will proven if someone will finish the course and test their capabilites in flying the A320....

Being A Pilot wannabe is one of the most challenging profession that you'll achive and also the money, will play to that role and the most important....!!!

EXPERIENCE...on how to fly a aircraft...

but i think the difference of MPL and ATPL is very different....
specially in flying EXPERIENCE...

MPL----SHORT TERM(12months..can fly a A320)
ATPL---LONG TERM(years will be counted before you achieve this license)

can i ask how the CIA teach their cadet about A320???
and how do they apply all the information in flight crew training manual
during simulator training???

can this 1200pages can be studied and finished within 12months???

pumping iron

13th Sep 2007, 02:22

well said paolylo!!!

some people comment on a recipe which they haven't tasted before... i think that's stupidity...:=

paolylo

13th Sep 2007, 03:34

@happy flying boy kurimaw

from what we're told, the MPL will get us all the way to ATPL instead of going through PPL and CPL. it's under aviation law that no one sits in the left hand side without an ATPL.

the MPL will train us enough to sit on the co-pilot's seat. so based on what you're saying, you just stated the obvious that captains are more experienced than brand new second officers that are rated to fly as co-pilot :ugh:

i don't know if you have pilot friends or family members, but if you've been around a few... they'd tell you that the actual flying of a modern commercial aircraft (yes, how to fly it) is simple once one gets the hang of things. even though one has to understand the basics of flying without automated systems or fly-by-wire using a light aircraft (the ATO would admit they wished the MPL had a few more solo flight hours)... it's the signs of the times, more planes are being produced than people that can fly them.

the experience part is found in the other aspects of operating an aircraft: understanding human performance in a pressurized environment and crew resource management. apart from the ones instructing the Cebu Pacific pilots on recurrent training in the simulator, CIA has a complete staff of technicians and engineers ready to assist anyone who'll use the sim.

you're worried about pages? 1200 pages isn't even half of all Harry Potter books than can be read in a couple of months. i've been in CIA for almost 4 months and we've browed through our manuals and comp based training (which has the same content, but has animations), surely 1200+ pages in a year is manageable (heck, groundschool practically locks cadets in classrooms from 8-5 excluding lunch).

kurimaw

14th Sep 2007, 08:34

ok.......

i think it's not proven yet about this type of license but there is a good result for that later on......

the important concept.......you know how to fly and land a aircraft...

wheter in learning in GenAv or in CIA....

why there is always a discrimination...specially in short term learning....

actually....i dont have any relatives in aviation...only me...

but i'm taking right now a course related in aviation
(2yr course about a/c maintenance) and finish my course this march...

instead of proceeding to a b.s deg. i rather to earn a little bit of flying hours experience and proceed later on.....

but i hope that this books that i have....can help me to my profession as a pilot and a/c mechanic.....

thanks and happy flying...

RAfault

15th Sep 2007, 01:47

in order for everyone to get refreshed on the MPL program, try browsing at the ICAO website. It will give you guidelines and information how this program should be done and implemented and see for yourselves if CIA is doing the right thing or not. ;)

jester_icarus

15th Sep 2007, 05:26

its hard to imagine a rated pilot with only an MPL... im sure it works for some but some pilots with lots of hours cant fly for Q@##@. Flying passengers is another thing.. but im sure the captain is a very good one and a qualified MPL is well... no comment. i hate to see these MPL in a real situation and not simulated.

jester_icarus

15th Sep 2007, 05:28

im sure a properly trained FO in a specifc aircraft can be helpful...i just hope they earned their wings like everyone else.. good luck to those in this program.

Zone 220

27th Sep 2007, 00:42

QOUTE: for someone who's just planning to enroll here, you obviously know a lot more than most of us at CIA.

A good pilot always check his flight plan and route!!! The same principles applies here my friend!:}

The latest i've heard is that batch 3 are on standby without a thing to do except for them to review the alpha robin manual!!! Gee's!!!!:ugh:

Isn't it this time is suppoed to be meant for learning "HOW TO FLY THE ACTUAL AIRCRAFT"?????

Does Alpha Aviation/Clark Aviation knows what they're doing????

Whether you'll agree or not, the administration is in a total mess right now, THEY HAVE NO PLANNING!!!

yowdude

27th Sep 2007, 14:01

when i fly with new f/o's i hesitate giving t/o and landings due to the fact that i dont like what i see while they perform pnf duties. mind you the new f/o's have more than 1500 total time on whatever it is they used to fly . most even have command time.the airbus is a plane that could fck you up in a second if you dont know your basic flying.this aint no joy ride kid.

kurimaw

28th Sep 2007, 07:59

yowdude.....

so it means that.....

fly-by-wire can kill you instantly....? right?

don't know if they can handle the killer A/THR...?

because it can happend anytime.....

scanscanscan

28th Sep 2007, 13:04

The key will be the insurance companies....Sadly they only provide cover on historic past track accident records...so people will have to die if this imagined new improved idea of producing pilots fails to work..and insurance companies at last show an interest in the quality of crew licences and training..it really is risk management for big money for everyone concerned..except the poor Captains stuck with no experiance in their right seat.
Given a thouroughly experianced Captain a weak on experiance f/o can be carried on flights... he should not have to be... but it is a fact of life some flights with brand new f/o are single Captain pilot IFR whilst the new guy plays catch up...everyone needs to help eachother achieve and this generally flows left seat to right seat..or should do whilst the new f/o matures and learns line handling flying...incorrectly crewed up experiance levels result in a series of Gf airbus type incidents some of which are fatal...no aircraft can be briefed to not bite any level of experiance pilot...when an f/o can do his right seat duties halfway decently then he can be given the responsibility of learning takeoffs and landings on line flying where the freeze button is death.
Line training Captains will probably have a vastly increased work load and responsibility...it will all be good fun for them and the new students in the real world weather and 24/7 max duty min rest line flying.

felipe56

28th Sep 2007, 16:30

.Aero

You stated "In my personal and professional opinion" yet you are not a pilot, a fact that you stated on the Middle East forum. By all means have a personal opinion but leave the professional one to the specialists in that field.

Much has been written about MPL mainly by people who haven't taken the time to actually study ICAO Annex 1, ICAO Doc 9868 etc. MPL wasn't born overnight, it was put together over a long period of time by industry experts. The regulatory controls put on MPL are far more stringent than for any other licence.

Its a fact of life that many European and Middle East carriers have been putting 200-250 hour pilots in the right hand seat for at least the last 20 years. They all followed the traditional training methods, which haven't really changed much in the last 40 years but look at the technological advances during this period. Its a bit like teaching someone to drive in a Jeepny and then putting them in a formula 1 car.

I have been involved in ab-initio pilot training, on 3 different continents, over the last 17 years. I have seen it all. There is a world of difference between CPL/IR's issued by the various countries. I know all the short cuts - yes it's pretty easy to get a license by burning holes in the sky, falsifying logbooks and greasing a few palms.

There are many CPL/IR holders out there who would not pass an MPL course because it is competency based and that's not how they got their licenses. Look at the Annex 1 minimum requirements for a CPL/IR. I see people everyday who hold instrument ratings but have never flown an ILS approach or a VOR hold.

Go and do ATPL theoretical knowledge in a JAA country and it will take you 6 months. But you can go somewhere else on the east side of the med and you can get ATPL theoretical knowledge in 2 days. Go further east and you can do your instrument rating, get your logbook signed up, do the flight test and have the rating issued all from the comfort of your own home-all you have to do is send the money.

I haven't seen it mentioned yet but ICAO are funding an MPL training school in Cameroon to train African pilots.

So yes MPL is the future and it will require fine tuning and as much as we like to resist change it is here to stay.

Rightwingheavy

28th Sep 2007, 17:29

i don't know if you have pilot friends or family members, but if you've been around a few... they'd tell you that the actual flying of a modern commercial aircraft (yes, how to fly it) is simple once one gets the hang of things

yes its true, that it is really easy to fly modern jets now like an airbus...if all goes well.
but what if, knock on wood and hope it will not happen to any of us, an emergency will happen. we know it's part of your sim training to handle such emergencies (hydraulics failure, engine fire etc), but what about flying the plane manually? i don't think someone with 70 hrs can perform well in bad weather...strong direct crosswinds...windshear...and the plane in max weight...with the ATC bullying you around and don't forget those flying in the area not knowing the procedures...:uhoh:

well its good if they can handle it well...but what if, the captain suddenly got incapacitated? :ooh:

just my 2 cents guys
goodluck and fly safe

RWH

paolylo

2nd Oct 2007, 02:12

@Zone 220 - if you're updated with CIA gossip (which you are), you'd know that one of the Alphas were already flown for about 8 hours last friday and for some reason, everyone here will be leaving for Manila this friday to have an Alpha 120/160 rating placed on our Student Pilot's Licenses. perhaps it means the ATO has already done its job as far as our planes' paperwork is concerned.

@RWH - there's a sense of security in knowing that having an incapacitated captain rarely happens in medium range flights... i don't know if Cebu Pacific will have entry-level second officers (like most of us here at Clark will be) perform take off and landing procedures ala SIA Cadets, but the performance of MPL holders in bad weather is something that's yet to be seen given the amount of time we'll have on light aircraft, simulators, and takeoff/landing procedures on a real A320 put together.

Cheers!

Rightwingheavy

2nd Oct 2007, 19:58

there's a sense of security in knowing that having an incapacitated captain rarely happens in medium range flights

but it can happen...right? i think 70 hrs actual flying is not safe enough for commercial operatons, that's the average for getting your PPL. i just wish the PIC time will be more than that.

yowdude

3rd Oct 2007, 00:50

a/thr is not a killer its actually a/p-a/thr: out which will do you in if you dont have the basic flying skills which can be experienced in real planes under real situations. i suggest you do your 70 hrs, do your sim and go the extra by taking a real plane to gen san or some place for xcountry solo:)

jester_icarus

3rd Oct 2007, 05:10

here!!...here!!!....... do some basic nav xcrty.

kurimaw

3rd Oct 2007, 07:27

yowdude.....

i know that you're telling about.......

about the INOP of A/THR and A/P.....

don't know why this kind of creepy situation happend??
one is in TO position-- other is in GA position....

about in A/P.... haven't read yet in my AOM in my p.c..
and AMM in my c.d....:E

i don't know what strategies will i do to start my flying lessons....
because lots of money will be needed..and time:ooh:

but i'm already finishing my studies as a Aircraft Technician this march...
related in A/C maintenance....hoping to have a work after i grad..

even i dont have any experience in flying or maintenance...

Aircraft...specially in Widebody and Turbined powered...
is not a joke or like playing in Flight simulator.

you must have a extensive knowledge and experience on how to operate a certain aircraft......

cause the pilot and a/c maintenance motto:

"One Miss, You'll Die"

Manuals of a A320.....will consist of thousands of pages....

AOM(Aircraft Operations Manual)consist of 1200+pages...only basic and only one of the chapters in ATA chapterization...

AMM(Aircraft Maintenance Manual)consist of 5000+pages....full detail of A320...

and ATA chapterization will reach up to 99 chapters...

what more in larger aircraft? (747,777,A330,A340,A380):eek:

but thanks for the advice....

i hope that i can find a good GenAv School here in Domestic or Subic..
to start my flying lessons after i grad. this march....

i've start playing my flight simulator in my p.c last year...
and i've familiarizing about the flight system of 747-400

Starting from APU...up to Starting the engine...

Using The FMC....the SID/STAR, waypoint route,
VNAV navigation, A/P usage...etc..

but i need more experience than playing in my p.c...

thanks and happy flying...:cool:

jester_icarus

3rd Oct 2007, 10:51

hope you well on your AP. this is probly the best way to get into aviation. go to the flightline and ask around if a mechinc is needed. if you cant find one... ask to trade for some wrench time for some flight time and meanwhile do some work on the side to supplement your income.

sim is cool... but get some stick time. this will go a long way.

lots of C172 in cebu flying tourist. im sure one of them needs a mechanic.

goodluck

jester_icarus

3rd Oct 2007, 10:57

....and meanwhile i would start reading and studying your first flying written test instead of learning about 747 systems....

find some PPL, IFR books and start studying those. you wont see any FMS, GPS coupler..etc on a C172 or a 152 trainer... or any trainer for that matter....

godspeed.....

kurimaw

3rd Oct 2007, 11:29

thanks for the good advice, jester_icarus...

i hope that i can make it....

and do it on time....

acutally...i've downloaded many AOM files in the web...
(A320,A330,A340, 737-300-400-500, 747-400, & 777-200LR)

although it is illegal and highly confidential......
but i really need this files as my future reference...
to apply in PAL and fly their new 777-300ER:E
or A320-214

about the AMM...(very high confidential)....SECRET!

but i'll try to find the books of C172, Baron58, ATR72,
jeppesen, PPL and IR books....

i know that PAL and CEBUPAC orders ATR72....
and required of 500hrs CPL IR experience...
to fly their aircraft as a F/O....

dont know what happend next....but push my luck!!

thanks and happy flying:cool:

alpha12039

20th Feb 2008, 02:14

Is it true that Clark Aviation is offering a new rating??

Crop Ratings - Only at CIA!
http://images.pilot346.multiply.com/image/2/photos/21/500x500/15/IMG_6692.JPG?et=HMgzMyMQONT1AI2egQVZJA&nmid=77783837

My Mommy says "If you work real hard you'll earn your wings and be the world's top crop sprayer

Can someone please confirm.

manina

20th Feb 2008, 07:16

Too bad the only thing going for Clark Av was their airplanes.

I really liked the profile of the Alpha.

ww1

20th Feb 2008, 10:38

kurimaw

"...although it is illegal and highly confidential......
but i really need this files as my future reference...
to apply in PAL and fly their new 777-300ER
or A320-214 about the AMM...(very high confidential)....SECRET!"

Very nice way to start a career. One wonders how your employer would view this - sounds like outright theft, but you already knew that, didn't you? Based on this and all the other idiocies you post, one hopes you never become a pilot. We don't need the likes of you.

paolylo

20th Feb 2008, 11:41

i rest my case.

cherokee86November

21st Feb 2008, 07:14

kurims,

" i've start playing my flight simulator in my p.c last year...
and i've familiarizing about the flight system of 747-400

Starting from APU...up to Starting the engine...

Using The FMC....the SID/STAR, waypoint route,
VNAV navigation, A/P usage...etc.. "

WOW......lets see these recover from a power off stall or help you do ground reference maneuvers.....or even better....lets see these help you do a short-field landing at Omni!!

i would love to see that look on ur face when u see that 6 pack in front of u onboard a cessna......lets see how u would track a VOR radial given ur "experience" with vnav navigation.....hahhahahaha

LOL

Tower: "Cessna XXX, cleared for takeoff, runway heading"

CFI: "Ok Kurimaw, push the throttle all the way to give it full power for takeoff

Kurims: "No, the A/TH is a killer!! might get stuck in GA position!!!"

CFI: :ugh:

Loko lang.....goodluck sayo!!

Mikkideez

22nd Feb 2008, 06:23

It is true that Clark Aviation is in its infancy stages, and like all others, it's pretty difficult to set these things up...but who knows, maybe the MPL is the way of the future. Give it a chance...let's get out of this crab mentality, and think positively of what the MPL, or Clark Aviation can bring to our industry. Things just don't evolve in just a day...it may take days, weeks, months, or even years. But with a little positive thinking, good things can definitely come out.

For all those critics that yap all day how CIA sucks, and is not a great school to go to...take a look around at the other schools here in the Philippines (even the one that used to be beside PATTS), and you will see that CIA actually LOOKS good. All the others are just a bunch of "We need your $$$$ or PPPP" flight schools. I don't really think that the average CPL license holder has ever done a chandelle, a lazy eight here and there, ground reference manuevers or even stalls (well maybe one or two stalls)...but that's it. "Let's build some time and fly cross country to Boracay!!!" Seems like aviation needs the like of CIA to prove to pilots here that flying is not all fun and games.

A little advice to those who want to be pilots (Kurimaw you better read this), it is not CHEAP! But I am sure you guys already knew that...but in the end, if it meant selling a house, a carabao or your "ten-years of work salary savings", I would take a step back and look at the whole picture. Is this what you want to do for the rest of your life?...your life savings (or your parents) depends on it.

Oh and one more thing, if you can stay away from these chizmiz forums, do so. All these jibberish is not gonna help you in attaining your dreams of becoming a professional pilot. Yes Kurimaw...especially you!

Just my two cents. :}

aeon

22nd Feb 2008, 07:29

kurimaw,

where are you taking up your AC mech course?

im taking up an avionics bachelor's degree here in the GenAv/Domestic area... its a pretty big school... one of the big names in the Philippine aviation industry... (yabang! hehe) we have a flight school too and we sell manuals of C150, C152, King Air, Baron, Queen Air, Travel Air, C414 chancellor, Musketeer, C172, YS-11.. hehehe we offer ratings for these units too! hehe (nagpromote?) those guys there hu wanna finish a degree in Avionics, AMT, AeroEng'g, Aviation major in Flying... d2 na kayo...

oh, before i forget, about the CIA thing... before i transferred here in my current school, i was thinking of joining the CIA family, but i decided not to because they haven't proved anything yet.. i thought it would be better to take up a related course first before while waiting for CIA to "come of age" hehe

i suggest you gain some experience first as a mechanic before going to flight school, it would also be a good idea to save money... it would be expensive dude... hehe

FourStripes

22nd Feb 2008, 08:25

For all those critics that yap all day how CIA sucks, and is not a great school to go to...take a look around at the other schools here in the Philippines (even the one that used to be beside PATTS), and you will see that CIA actually LOOKS good.

CIA only looks good from the outside, but in the inside its a different story. Yes they may have nice planes and all but they are in violation of ATO regulations. Just look at the ratio of students to airplanes.

3 flyable airplanes vs 50, 60 students on flight status....Come on it doesn't take a genius to figure that one out 8Ball, I mean Mikkideez, I mean Mr. Flight operations manager.

JV126

23rd Feb 2008, 02:25

MPL has now been approved by the ATO and the 50-60 that you are referring to are all flying using 9 aircrafts including Omni's. I flew the Alpha last week and have flown the cessna in the past. I am one of the 50-60 cadets that you are referring and I am on the move thanks to 8Ball.

Mikkideez

23rd Feb 2008, 02:46

Fourstrips (if you have four stripes, you don't deserve them)...it's official man, you are a bonafide moron. So if you try to be fair sounding, you are 8ball or a Flt Ops Manager? So does that mean that yappers should be known as FourStripe? You are an idiot. Stick around these forums and post coz that's all you probably know how to do.

FourStripes

23rd Feb 2008, 05:06

MPL has now been approved by the ATO

I don't think this is factual. Captain. NL (Former Chief Pilot of Clark Av) is actually making it difficult for ATO to get MPL approved. In fact he is on a crusade to stop CA and this big joke that they are doing.

I'm not here to attack anyone, I'm just stating facts. JV126 do you know the legal student to airplane ratio in the A.O. ?

its 1:10 my friend. CA is in violation!

oops, good thing no one from the ATO reads these forums otherwise the school gets suspend, and we don't want that happening do we now JV126.

FourStripes

23rd Feb 2008, 05:15

the 50-60 that you are referring to are all flying using 9 aircrafts including Omni's

the 9 aircraft you are referring to are all VFR rated by the ATO. How many IFR aircraft does CA have right now?

0

nada

zilch

my friend you are in one world class school for pilots.......not!

JV126

23rd Feb 2008, 08:14

the 9 aircraft you are referring to are all VFR rated by the ATO. How many IFR aircraft does CA have right now?

0

nada

Semantic nul from a frightened child edited.

[quote]I don't think this is factual. Captain. NL (Former Chief Pilot of Clark Av) is actually making it difficult for ATO to get MPL approved.
Strike three -- you're OUT !!!.... And this idiot plays to jeopardize my future
and and the future of over 100 cadets and refuses to believe the fact that it is already done. Further nonsense continues but still scared.

You said do you know the legal student to airplane ratio in the A.O. ?

its 1:10 my friend. CA is in violation!Discussions of demons and possession but still no facts

All in all an outstanding rebutal other than an absence of anything coherent written by an adult. Just imagine this sad child holding a piece of paper that would allow them in the right seat of a transport aircraft.

King ECAM

23rd Feb 2008, 10:28

From your reactions I would say that you are in denial. It seems to me that you are afraid of the truth.

It is true that CIA has no IFR rated Alpha.

It is also true that the student to airplane ratio totally goes against the regs in the A.O.

Basing on your response maybe you should consider other options instead of MPL. If you feel that your future is in jeopardy then maybe it is.

my 2 cents......

Eight Ball

24th Feb 2008, 03:17

To the cadets - ignore these postings, just carry on with your ground and flight training.

Some people will always try and destroy what you have started. Filipino crab mentality. Know how to control this.

Goodluck to all cadets. Nothing in life is ever easy and it will not be handed to you in a silver platter.

mplcadet

24th Feb 2008, 10:49

you are right Capt 8ball!!!

cheers to you and to my fellow cadets...:ok:

jester_icarus

24th Feb 2008, 14:01

very impressive facility...make the best of it..

manina

1st Mar 2008, 05:03

So you are the famous Flight Ops Manager.

Some people will always try and destroy what you have started

Yes and those people are would include the Head of Training and the Chief Ground Instructor.

And the Company CEO.

These people are the ones I trusted my future career with by enrolling at Clark Aviation.

But they instead just pocketed my money and did not give me a full refund!

jester_icarus

2nd Mar 2008, 10:24

8ball...

Thank you very much for the tour and for your prep-time with me. It feels good to be always learning. "A good pilot never stops learning".

Very impressive facility. Nice pool room to relax in and a bar to hang out and do some "hangar talk". Met some C130 guys and got to exchange some aviation stories.

Never got a chance to meet some of the students there but if i did i would tell them that to make the best of the training. Its a real nice environment to absorb alot of aviation.

Again thank you..and hope to see you soon..

"keep the blue side up"

alpha12039

2nd Mar 2008, 11:01

i would tell them that to make the best of the training. Its a real nice environment to absorb alot of aviation.

True. But this does not in no way go against the fact that Course 1 is already delayed for 3 or 4 months as of today.

The Title of this thread says it all: it's not Achievable:ugh::ugh:

If the CEO and his henchmen were doing their jobs then the 3 cadets from Course 1 would be sitting right seat now with 5J.

anybody want to debate on this?

Zone 220

2nd Mar 2008, 11:30

True. But this does not in no way go against the fact that Course 1 is already delayed for 3 or 4 months as of today.

The Title of this thread says it all: it's not Achievable:ugh::ugh:

If the CEO and his henchmen were doing their jobs then the 3 cadets from Course 1 would be sitting right seat now with 5J.

anybody want to debate on this?
____________________________________________________________ _____

i dont hink there is..:} Not even Rick Norman!!! hehehehe!!! They dont even have enough 172's for the instrument rating...

Zone 220

2nd Mar 2008, 11:33

True. But this does not in no way go against the fact that Course 1 is already delayed for 3 or 4 months as of today.

The Title of this thread says it all: it's not Achievable:ugh::ugh:

If the CEO and his henchmen were doing their jobs then the 3 cadets from Course 1 would be sitting right seat now with 5J.

anybody want to debate on this?
____________________________________________________________ _____

i dont think there is..:}

Not even Rick Norman!!! hehehehe!!! They dont even have enough 172's for the instrument rating...

skypilot66666

2nd Mar 2008, 12:02

actually 2 of their directors were put out in the cold. the current problem is that clark aviation is starting have many court cases with the new management brought in. i am studying there and i even heard there is now problems since those boards directors used to provide the needed funds. now some are bragging that they are the best mgmt ever which is a lie. the school is getting worse as the simulator parts were held by customs for ......................
ll
the president MP has promised planes for a long time now they still havent arrived. the previous directors had already scheduled this but current mgmt isnt trying hard enough.

i have many friends there except admin they keep giving me excuses especially mam irene........................

i just hope that this new mgmt will allow clark to get back to business or ill take my training elsewhere

:mad:

skypilot66666

2nd Mar 2008, 12:09

the road at clark is going to get very rocky. I even saw on this site that MP is dancing with bar girls. what kind of a mgr is that, bad image. rumors are that he has police records for beating the local girls...................

is it true well................

I have at clark for about 8 months and i konow there were problems before but at least previous mgmt told the truth. Now its lies such as the planes & simulator parts for 4 months. :ok:

skypilot66666

2nd Mar 2008, 12:13

why ignore these postings, we actually graduated. as students have the right to know whats happening, we spend so much to learn fly so we can support our families and the new board has to act like children with there own. why dont they just resign, i didnt see that much of a problem with previous mgmt. the question you ask yourselves is how many students for january & feb, how many have ais forum is the onbly place we can find the truthctually graduated.

this forum is the only place we might be able to find the truth because this new mgmt doesnt care!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:zzz:

Zone 220

3rd Mar 2008, 10:49

QUOTE: Just Call me. I will fix everything. Or talk to Peter da sidekick.
____________________________________________________________ ___

Yeah right Mr. Rick Norman.... As if you genuinely care!!! Now you are trying to show that you care for the CA students, yes you care for one student that is the portugese from course 2 and not a Filipino.

There were reports or complaints rather filed in CDC that you've branded Filipinos as "THIEVES"!!! :eek:

Now am telling you this, CDC is monitoring you together with the other brits who have this dicrimination over Filipinos... One wrong move Mr. Rick Norman your visa will be cancelled and you will be subjected for deportation, if not, well, just watch your back:mad:.

Mr. Moderator please Sir do not delete this.... Because it is unfair for us to be discriminated just like that, as if, we Filipinos are animals

alpha12039

3rd Mar 2008, 11:03

if you don't mind me asking, what did Rick Norman do to youi?

can you verify the CDC complaints? are these coming from CA cadets?

why did you single out the Portugese?

please do tell...........

skypilot66666

5th Mar 2008, 02:03

those ofi you that dont know whats going on at cia have a big problem, mgmt is realy bad now. i want my license and have been waiting for so long. lies, lies, lies http://www.pprune.org/forums/images/icons/46.gif

skypilot66666

5th Mar 2008, 02:05

Zone 220

5th Mar 2008, 15:34

I am a reasonable person to talk to. I can even escalate your problem to the CEO if needed.

____________________________________________________________ _____

YEAH RIGHT!!!!:yuk::yuk::yuk:

alpha12039

5th Mar 2008, 22:05

Why are you so negative about Rick Norman?

He is just doing his job mate!

manina

6th Mar 2008, 23:00

this place cheats the students on their tuition fees.

until now I still don't have my full refund.

rq4globalhawk

7th Mar 2008, 02:05

While I am just reading here from the sidelines, I cannot help take notice of persons who write challenging remarks and remain behind a PPRuNe ID. I don't know any of the contributors but at least Rick Norman (I don't know him either) had the guts to identify himself in a "no-holds-barred" forum(almost, anyway). If I were to complain about a person I'd write to him directly, or see him personally.

Nobody's perfect - I've made mistakes, and people under my supervision have made mistakes as well. I hate to state this but it seems necessary to establish credibility: I'm a widebody captain, MFF*.

In those few occasions my chief pilot would call me to his office and I'd get my well-deserved dressing-down - but behind closed doors. In turn, my erring first officer gets his measure of constructive criticism - but only with the two of us in the flight deck (I send the second officer out)... I do the same with cabin attendants, behind a closed flight deck door.

In the vernacular - Mag-usap kayo ng maayos - kung kailangang pangaralan huwag mong hihiyain sa harap ng iba - ika nga, payong kapatid, ng kuya o tito. Pagkatapos niyan maski napagalitan mo, papasalamatan ka pa at kakamayan. I would like to say then that after decades of a rough and tumble career in airline flying I've earned the respect of my peers in the airline.

In short, let's keep the language in this forum civilized; don't get emotional. You will sound more credible and professional that way.

*... and hopefully I may be your instructor in the line and in the sim someday

Zone 2 Alt

7th Mar 2008, 10:11

Again reading from the sidelines, clearly there are some aggrieved posters on this thread. I feel it's fine to air ones grievences on PPRUNE but offering threats and personnal abuse, in my opinion is not what this forum should be about.

Eight Ball

7th Mar 2008, 22:02

ha-ha-ha :} good detective work JV126. I know it's just a matter of time till this guy was exposed.

I've spoken to the real Rick Norman and he confirmed that this is not him.

Well done JV126...... by the way, congratulations and goodluck going to the final stage of your Core flight training. I know you would make a good First Officer.

Also, goodluck to Pumping Iron, Shaider and MPLcadet..... you're doing good and I'm proud of you. Keep it up boys and see you in the flight deck.

Also, congrats to the first soloist of Course 4 :D and to the previous ones too from Course 1,2 and 3.

ZFT

8th Mar 2008, 11:00

JV126

PM me as next time I'm in your part of this world I'll buy you a beer

luzon

8th Mar 2008, 12:27

Ive been watching from the side for nearly a year now... without ever saying anything. untill now:):).
To all cadets just remember to keep the faith, sure the school has gone through its ups and downs but one thing is for sure the CA will not let us down. At the end of the day we have invested our time and money with them and they have invested quite a sum of money time reputation and efford to build the first A320 MPL school in the world. So just keep the faith and trust the mgment,they have nothing but the best of interest in their minds for each and every student. Things will work out, and yes each and every one of us will have a brilliant future thanks to CA...:):D:ok:.
Stay away from people like mike and the people that are paying him to riun not the school but yes our future..and those students that seem to have nothing better to say than bad things about CA...
Remember this.. MPL is approved her in the phil. this is a fact.
ingat to all the students at CA and be proud of the school :D:D.

PS hahahaha nice to see mike the snake removing some of his posts..haha..so start playing nice mike...thats my recomendation to you as a friend of course hahahaha

FourStripes

9th Mar 2008, 04:47

Rick Norman had the guts to identify himself in a "no-holds-barred" forum(almost, anyway). If I were to complain about a person I'd write to him directly, or see him personally.

Nobody's perfect - I've made mistakes, and people under my supervision have made mistakes as well. I hate to state this but it seems necessary to establish credibility: I'm a widebody captain,

In those few occasions my chief pilot would call me to his office and I'd get my well-deserved dressing-down - but behind closed doors. In turn, my erring first officer gets his measure of constructive criticism - but only with the two of us in the flight deck (I send the second officer out)... I do the same with cabin attendants, behind a closed flight deck door.

This is great advice.

How I wish more people can be level headed as you sir. Hopefully you don't get to train with these 70 hour stick and rudder wonders, if you do I will leave it to you to judge their handling and scanning sir.

rq4globalhawk

9th Mar 2008, 17:27

From FourStripes: "Hopefully you don't get to train with these 70 hour stick and rudder wonders, if you do I will leave it to you to judge their handling and scanning"

Thank you for your comment, FourStripes. I've done miracles with low-time students, chopper pilots, hard-headed characters, high-time pilots with bad habits, etc. and somehow qualified them on twin- and quad-jets. All of my students made it, I'm proud to say.

The 70-hour wonders are something else and I'll welcome the opportunity to handle at least a set. I'll know within the first two or three sessions if they can make it within the specified number of sim hours. The fast learners will likely make it with no extension. In my book this is about 5-10% of an average batch.

The key here is not to wait too long between the end of the 70-hour course and the start of the simulator phase. The school has to have enough equipment to keep the momentum ... CBTs, FMGS trainers, FTDs, and of course flight simulators.

Since it appears this is not the case, I suggest you MPL pioneers study the FCOMs/CBT, stick those instrument panels on the wall and bunk-fly with a partner regularly, train your instrument scanning with the A320 Flight Simulator on the PC. That's what my 200-hour students did, and they all made it. With 70 hours under your belt you'll have to try harder, with blood sweat and tears, but I'm certain if you do your part you can make it.

Take care and keep cool. Good luck and God bless you fellows.

FourStripes

11th Mar 2008, 07:50

Now, is it still possible for Clark Aviation to achieved that promised "12 month" program????? Nobody knows!!! Even the school administrator themselves are not transparent with their milestone:rolleyes:.

As of today there are atleast 99 cadets on flight status. CA owns 4 Alphas, 3 of which is flying.

But let us not forget the rescue effort of OMNI Aviation.

Even if OMNI has new aircraft for training. they will exceed the Flight Instructors duty time or in this case the max. allowable flgitht time in a day which is 8 hours.

Care to comment on this rq4globalhawk? If you were asked to be a consultant in the matter what will you advise Clark Aviation?

manina

12th Mar 2008, 23:15

Sir 8ball,

I was told that the CEO is already in manila did you already talked to him about my refund?

My parents wishes to see him as well since knowing of the situation.

rq4globalhawk

13th Mar 2008, 13:31

FourStipes: Care to comment on this rq4globalhawk? If you were asked to be a consultant in the matter what will you advise Clark Aviation?

Good luck.

FourStripes

14th Mar 2008, 01:16

Good luck

Thank you sir for the short and sweet reply!!!

boys and girls take it from the TRI.

9ball

18th Mar 2008, 03:27

The new planes from OMNI has arrived but it will take about 2 months max before it can be used for training for both OMNI students and CA Cadets.

Atleast OMNI has gotten new planes, what about Clark Aviation?

Looks like a merger is in play, will Clark Aviation buy out OMNI?

So it is true that we can rename them Clark Institute of OMNI, or does Clark OMNI Institute of Aviation sound better?

alpha12039

19th Mar 2008, 10:50

I very much doubt CA will buy OMNI. Not unless CA is interested in the private strip. Otherwise it will just be a waste of company resources. Given that the CEO is facing several lawsuits. all the money is going to his lawyers instead of the school.

manina

22nd Mar 2008, 10:49

buy OMNI?

they can't even give me a FULL refund and they are thinking of buying OMNI........ what are these people thinking?

skyhighbird

22nd Mar 2008, 17:30

Hi Manina,

I see you are in the UK. how did you hear about the MPL course in the Philippines? Are you a brit or a filipino living in the UK?

manina

24th Mar 2008, 07:56

FOQ0726-1 1 Three (3) different versions of organizational
chart exist in the current Clark Aviation
manuals, all differing from each other.
FOQ0726-2 1 The company structure is not clear in the
Operations Manual, including a clear
identification of the FTO/TRTO certificate
holder.
Three different entities are specified in the
Clark manuals:
• Alpha Aviation Group (this is the
parent/holding company)
• International Aviation Group Development
Corporation (this is the name of the
Operating company)
• Clark Aviation (the name under which
IAGDC operates as a flight training
facility)
There is currently an “identity crisis” in the
documentary description and illustration of
the actual working relationship of these
entities, and of the manner in which the key
personnel involved conduct the required
management activities.
FOQ0726-3 1 This position is identified as a position, title
and name on two of the three organizational
charts. However, this person is not
permanently on-site at Clark Aviation. The
manner in which the responsibilities of the
Accountable Manager are conducted
remotely, or are delegated in his absence,
are not described in the Clark Aviation
manuals.
FOQ0726-4 1 There is a lack of clear identification, in some
of the relevant manuals, of holders of the
following key management positions:
• Head of Training (currently carried out by
the Flight Operations Manager)
• Chief Flying Instructor (this position is
currently unfilled)
• Chief Ground Instructor
Quality Manager (this position is currently
unfilled)

manina

24th Mar 2008, 09:12

http://www.mediafire.com/?pywqyqlkmxj

Click on above link to download full version of the Audit.

Tigs2

24th Mar 2008, 12:07

manina
Thank you for posting that.
Is the date of the audit Jan 05? If so it is a bit out of date really.

Aero

The only thing that any audit will do is highlight things the auditors believe to be lacking/at fault. It will not highlight 'good' things, therefore it is common that most audits read like a really good slagging off. There is nothing there that cannot be fixed without a bit of application. Often, the quality systems are so complex that operators are not aware of non-compliance until it is highlighted by an audit. Audits are there to improve systems, and different companies operate to different standards on their own audits.

manina

24th Mar 2008, 12:23

It was made sometime December 07 and not Jan 05, Clark Aviation was still an idea back then.......

Zone 220

25th Mar 2008, 01:28

thanks for posting manina, it is certainly damaging in clark av's part, but i guess this is what they need in order to push their organization to do what is right in accordance to ATO and other regulatory standards.

A sort of waking them up!!!! But i believe it's hard to waken-up those who are pretending to be asleep...

Nice one manina!!!

manina

25th Mar 2008, 03:07

the people who run this place aren't your typical Philippine college yearbook editor who'll run away with everyone's money.

I beg to disagree.....

I invite Colin,Matt,Rick,Anthony, even the CEO to debate on this issue!!!!

ads1963

25th Mar 2008, 03:54

Reading through all of this and hearing what the locals over there in the Philippines are saying it looks like a real big booboo or just another "money making" venture without delivering the services contracted for.

Judging from the posts here and in other forums this venture seems to be a dying one until such time Cebu Pacific does not really step in hard.

I guess one of their directors is better in running pubs and night joints than running a serious business like a professional aviation school.

Let's wait and see what will happen there. Maybe some more insights would be great and could maybe open the eyes of the management of CIA.

:ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

Tigs2

25th Mar 2008, 05:21

I am new to this forum, and have just moved to the area. I do not know Clark Aviation, but here are a few unbiased observations.

There seems to be a lot of vitriol posted on this thread concerning CA, but it is coming from the same few posters, and looking at the style of language used, some of those posters are using a number of different 'handles' on this thread.

ads1963

How can it be a moneymaking venture? First launches into aviation businesses are not money making they are more than often money loss situations. With the high amount of investment required to start such a venture, it is normally 3 - 4 years before a business like this can hope to even break even and show any return on investment.

Manina

Quote:
the people who run this place aren't your typical Philippine college yearbook editor who'll run away with everyone's money.

I beg to disagree.....

I invite Colin,Matt,Rick,Anthony, even the CEO to debate on this issue!!!!

Be careful. You say these things with anonymity, make sure that you remain anonymous. This is a public forum and you are on very thin ice if the laws of slander and defamation of character are applied. Why should the Directors of any company debate their business on an open forum anyway?

As for the post concerning the link/contents of the audit, whilst interesting you are again playing with fire. Speaking from experience these things are very confidential. There will be two parties interested here, CA and Gulf Air. In order to carry out any audit, the company conducting the audit would be tied in to a pretty thorough confidentiality agreement. This has now been broken one way or another. If I were management in Gulf Air i would hire every geek i could lay my hands on to trace the person who has leaked the document, and then sue their asses off before CA sued my ass off. If the leak was from within CA then the individual concerned should themselves be concerned. The damage is done now, I am sure all concerned have hard/electronic copies of appropriate pages and will already be pursuing the matter.

Before you ask, I am nothing to do with CA, just a professional aviator who sees the normal banter and moaning i normally read on Jetblast and the Mil Forum turned into real vitriol on this thread.

Nobody is anonymous on an anonymous forum

I am amazed the Mods have let this thread go so far

safe flying:ok: