Clark Aviation 12 month MPL program -not achievable????

[Zone 220]

I've heard that batch 1 and batch 2 haven't started their flying phase yet, though they are through with ground schooling still they cannot proceed to accomplished flying core because number 1 reason is: The aircraft's
C of R and C of A haven't been released by the regulatory in philippines which is ATO.

Second, eventhough these documents were released, there is not a single flight instructor in the island who holds the rating for this aircraft..not even ATO... This is the first time Alpha Robin aircraft will be used in this country (Philippines)....

Now the latest i've heard was that batch 3 have completed their ground schooling last Aug which means they will be joining the qeue with batch 1 & 2.

Now, is it still possible for Clark Aviation to achieved that promised "12 month" program????? Nobody knows!!! Even the school administrator themselves are not transparent with their milestone.

I am one of those who are planning to enroll but at this time, i think i'll hold my decision first until such time i hear a good development like batch 1, 2 & 3 are already doing their flying core....

Hope that this thread will catch their attention and do some positive actions on their part...

[RAfault]

The program needs to have a thorough oversight to determine whether it could take the place of current system of pilot training. How the candidates would adopt to new aircraft systems and technology plus their adaptability to line oriented flying given the limited experience have yet to be studied and needs to be supervised by the regulatory authority or the airline sponsoring the program. The concept is trailblazing but it has to be done with extreme caution and supervision.

[paolylo]

this thread didn't just get my attention, it bothers me that your post puts Clark Aviation in a bad light. for someone who's just planning to enroll here, you obviously know a lot more than most of us at CIA.

there's a good reason why we're told not to worry whenever anyone of us brings up the issue. millions and millions of Php have already been invested in this school and yet most people fail to realize that this institution is still in its infancy stages. at this point, i don't mind if indeed the ones who put up this school assumed it was that easy to get CR's/CA's and have someone rated to fly (and train people with) a light aircraft that's never been seen in this country. some of us who entered this school are taking the risk in believing that the MPL will be the way of the future as far as training pilots are concerned (a handful of cadets here are sons of pilots from respectable airliners).

i can't speak for the first 3 batches who are supposed to be flying but their time waiting should be (or is already) compensated for. as far as i'm concerned, this program is very, very tough (top it off with the strict regulations in the ground school) and administrative issues should be the least of our concerns. the people who run this place aren't your typical Philippine college yearbook editor who'll run away with everyone's money. there is progress going on. each week, someone from the ATO checks on the school's status... and occassionally representatives from other airlines such as Gulf Air have expressed interest in sponsoring cadets like Cebu Pacific when the school started out.

for future applicants, the admission process may be much more competitive once the school is already established and further developed.

Cheers!

[SAD IN QAC]

:)

kwl paolylo

[kurimaw]

MPL....


One of the good opportunites for a pilot wannabe....
due to pilot shortage in our country...


but the price is too expensive but there is a good result for that???

i don't know....! it will proven if someone will finish the course and test their capabilites in flying the A320....


Being A Pilot wannabe is one of the most challenging profession that you'll achive and also the money, will play to that role and the most important....!!!


EXPERIENCE...on how to fly a aircraft...

but i think the difference of MPL and ATPL is very different....
specially in flying EXPERIENCE...

MPL----SHORT TERM(12months..can fly a A320)
ATPL---LONG TERM(years will be counted before you achieve this license)



can i ask how the CIA teach their cadet about A320???
and how do they apply all the information in flight crew training manual
during simulator training???

can this 1200pages can be studied and finished within 12months???

[pumping iron]

well said paolylo!!!

some people comment on a recipe which they haven't tasted before... i think that's stupidity...

[paolylo]

@happy flying boy kurimaw

from what we're told, the MPL will get us all the way to ATPL instead of going through PPL and CPL. it's under aviation law that no one sits in the left hand side without an ATPL.

the MPL will train us enough to sit on the co-pilot's seat. so based on what you're saying, you just stated the obvious that captains are more experienced than brand new second officers that are rated to fly as co-pilot

i don't know if you have pilot friends or family members, but if you've been around a few... they'd tell you that the actual flying of a modern commercial aircraft (yes, how to fly it) is simple once one gets the hang of things. even though one has to understand the basics of flying without automated systems or fly-by-wire using a light aircraft (the ATO would admit they wished the MPL had a few more solo flight hours)... it's the signs of the times, more planes are being produced than people that can fly them.

the experience part is found in the other aspects of operating an aircraft: understanding human performance in a pressurized environment and crew resource management. apart from the ones instructing the Cebu Pacific pilots on recurrent training in the simulator, CIA has a complete staff of technicians and engineers ready to assist anyone who'll use the sim.

you're worried about pages? 1200 pages isn't even half of all Harry Potter books than can be read in a couple of months. i've been in CIA for almost 4 months and we've browed through our manuals and comp based training (which has the same content, but has animations), surely 1200+ pages in a year is manageable (heck, groundschool practically locks cadets in classrooms from 8-5 excluding lunch).

[kurimaw]

ok.......


i think it's not proven yet about this type of license but there is a good result for that later on......


the important concept.......you know how to fly and land a aircraft...

wheter in learning in GenAv or in CIA....


why there is always a discrimination...specially in short term learning....


actually....i dont have any relatives in aviation...only me...


but i'm taking right now a course related in aviation
(2yr course about a/c maintenance) and finish my course this march...

instead of proceeding to a b.s deg. i rather to earn a little bit of flying hours experience and proceed later on.....

but i hope that this books that i have....can help me to my profession as a pilot and a/c mechanic.....



thanks and happy flying...

[RAfault]

in order for everyone to get refreshed on the MPL program, try browsing at the ICAO website. It will give you guidelines and information how this program should be done and implemented and see for yourselves if CIA is doing the right thing or not.

[jester_icarus]

scary

its hard to imagine a rated pilot with only an MPL... im sure it works for some but some pilots with lots of hours cant fly for Q@##@. Flying passengers is another thing.. but im sure the captain is a very good one and a qualified MPL is well... no comment. i hate to see these MPL in a real situation and not simulated.

[jester_icarus]

no discrimination intended

im sure a properly trained FO in a specifc aircraft can be helpful...i just hope they earned their wings like everyone else.. good luck to those in this program.

[Zone 220]

Paolylo

QOUTE: for someone who's just planning to enroll here, you obviously know a lot more than most of us at CIA.




A good pilot always check his flight plan and route!!! The same principles applies here my friend!

The latest i've heard is that batch 3 are on standby without a thing to do except for them to review the alpha robin manual!!! Gee's!!!!

Isn't it this time is suppoed to be meant for learning "HOW TO FLY THE ACTUAL AIRCRAFT"?????

Does Alpha Aviation/Clark Aviation knows what they're doing????

Whether you'll agree or not, the administration is in a total mess right now, THEY HAVE NO PLANNING!!!

[yowdude]

when i fly with new f/o's i hesitate giving t/o and landings due to the fact that i dont like what i see while they perform pnf duties. mind you the new f/o's have more than 1500 total time on whatever it is they used to fly . most even have command time.the airbus is a plane that could fck you up in a second if you dont know your basic flying.this aint no joy ride kid.

[kurimaw]

yowdude.....


so it means that.....


fly-by-wire can kill you instantly....? right?


don't know if they can handle the killer A/THR...?


because it can happend anytime.....

[scanscanscan]

The key will be the insurance companies....Sadly they only provide cover on historic past track accident records...so people will have to die if this imagined new improved idea of producing pilots fails to work..and insurance companies at last show an interest in the quality of crew licences and training..it really is risk management for big money for everyone concerned..except the poor Captains stuck with no experiance in their right seat.
Given a thouroughly experianced Captain a weak on experiance f/o can be carried on flights... he should not have to be... but it is a fact of life some flights with brand new f/o are single Captain pilot IFR whilst the new guy plays catch up...everyone needs to help eachother achieve and this generally flows left seat to right seat..or should do whilst the new f/o matures and learns line handling flying...incorrectly crewed up experiance levels result in a series of Gf airbus type incidents some of which are fatal...no aircraft can be briefed to not bite any level of experiance pilot...when an f/o can do his right seat duties halfway decently then he can be given the responsibility of learning takeoffs and landings on line flying where the freeze button is death.
Line training Captains will probably have a vastly increased work load and responsibility...it will all be good fun for them and the new students in the real world weather and 24/7 max duty min rest line flying.

[felipe56]

.Aero

You stated "In my personal and professional opinion" yet you are not a pilot, a fact that you stated on the Middle East forum. By all means have a personal opinion but leave the professional one to the specialists in that field.

Much has been written about MPL mainly by people who haven't taken the time to actually study ICAO Annex 1, ICAO Doc 9868 etc. MPL wasn't born overnight, it was put together over a long period of time by industry experts. The regulatory controls put on MPL are far more stringent than for any other licence.

Its a fact of life that many European and Middle East carriers have been putting 200-250 hour pilots in the right hand seat for at least the last 20 years. They all followed the traditional training methods, which haven't really changed much in the last 40 years but look at the technological advances during this period. Its a bit like teaching someone to drive in a Jeepny and then putting them in a formula 1 car.

I have been involved in ab-initio pilot training, on 3 different continents, over the last 17 years. I have seen it all. There is a world of difference between CPL/IR's issued by the various countries. I know all the short cuts - yes it's pretty easy to get a license by burning holes in the sky, falsifying logbooks and greasing a few palms.

There are many CPL/IR holders out there who would not pass an MPL course because it is competency based and that's not how they got their licenses. Look at the Annex 1 minimum requirements for a CPL/IR. I see people everyday who hold instrument ratings but have never flown an ILS approach or a VOR hold.

Go and do ATPL theoretical knowledge in a JAA country and it will take you 6 months. But you can go somewhere else on the east side of the med and you can get ATPL theoretical knowledge in 2 days. Go further east and you can do your instrument rating, get your logbook signed up, do the flight test and have the rating issued all from the comfort of your own home-all you have to do is send the money.

I haven't seen it mentioned yet but ICAO are funding an MPL training school in Cameroon to train African pilots.

So yes MPL is the future and it will require fine tuning and as much as we like to resist change it is here to stay.

[Rightwingheavy]

i don't know if you have pilot friends or family members, but if you've been around a few... they'd tell you that the actual flying of a modern commercial aircraft (yes, how to fly it) is simple once one gets the hang of things

yes its true, that it is really easy to fly modern jets now like an airbus...if all goes well.
but what if, knock on wood and hope it will not happen to any of us, an emergency will happen. we know it's part of your sim training to handle such emergencies (hydraulics failure, engine fire etc), but what about flying the plane manually? i don't think someone with 70 hrs can perform well in bad weather...strong direct crosswinds...windshear...and the plane in max weight...with the ATC bullying you around and don't forget those flying in the area not knowing the procedures...

well its good if they can handle it well...but what if, the captain suddenly got incapacitated?

just my 2 cents guys
goodluck and fly safe

RWH

[paolylo]

@Zone 220 - if you're updated with CIA gossip (which you are), you'd know that one of the Alphas were already flown for about 8 hours last friday and for some reason, everyone here will be leaving for Manila this friday to have an Alpha 120/160 rating placed on our Student Pilot's Licenses. perhaps it means the ATO has already done its job as far as our planes' paperwork is concerned.

@RWH - there's a sense of security in knowing that having an incapacitated captain rarely happens in medium range flights... i don't know if Cebu Pacific will have entry-level second officers (like most of us here at Clark will be) perform take off and landing procedures ala SIA Cadets, but the performance of MPL holders in bad weather is something that's yet to be seen given the amount of time we'll have on light aircraft, simulators, and takeoff/landing procedures on a real A320 put together.

Cheers!

[Rightwingheavy]

there's a sense of security in knowing that having an incapacitated captain rarely happens in medium range flights

but it can happen...right? i think 70 hrs actual flying is not safe enough for commercial operatons, that's the average for getting your PPL. i just wish the PIC time will be more than that.

[yowdude]

a/thr is not a killer its actually a/p-a/thr: out which will do you in if you dont have the basic flying skills which can be experienced in real planes under real situations. i suggest you do your 70 hrs, do your sim and go the extra by taking a real plane to gen san or some place for xcountry solo