Shengen Arrangements?

[Rick Nivea]

Confusing question for anyone who can help:An aircraft departs a Shengen country, makes a stop to pick up pax, and then flies on to a non-shegen country. Do the pax have to have a passport control after check in at any stage of the flight? For example, flight originates in Madrid, flies to Paris to pick and drop off pax, the flight then continues on to final destination in LGW. Would the pax that got on in Madrid have to clear a passport check in Paris before continuing on to LGW - which is not a Shengen airport?

[Intruder]

What exactly is Shengen? How is it different than EU? WHY is it different than EU?

[Bullethead]

I didn't know either so I looked it up.

The 1985 Schengen Agreement is an agreement among European states which allows for the abolition of systematic border controls between the participating countries. It also includes provisions on common policy on the temporary entry of persons (including the Schengen Visa), the harmonisation of external border controls, and cross-border police co-operation.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Agreement

Regards,
BH.

[tncmdream]

You mean if you need a schengen visa while you're flying yourself in some european country?

[the_fish@blueyonder.]

With Schengen an international flight between two countries both in the schengen agreement is treated like a Domestic flight, i.e. no passport control/Immigration, only Photo ID is needed for travel.

I would imagine in this case those passengers travelling to LGW would have been alerated that a passport or National ID card is needed at thier final destination.

[Seat1APlease]

They will certainly have to show ID before leaving Paris in your example, but on the other hand I don't know of anyone who would take you by air within the Schengen area without some form of ID, and that adds another twist to the question.


You could board in Berlin say, with a German ID card (not a passport) and fly via Paris and eventually enter the UK with that ID, even though the UK is not within the Schengen area. The UK recognises other EU issued ID cards even though we don't at present have them here.

[Rick Nivea]

In the example I gave would that mean that MAD-LGW pax would need to deplane at CDG? Or is simply a case of checking passports at MAD and showing passports again at LGW? Damned confusing this EU stuff.

[NotaLOT]

Since the ultimate destination of the flight is Non-Schengen, all passengers boarding at Madrid have to be treated as flying to a Non-Schengen destination, and therefore go through immigration control (where they can use photo ID or passport). You can't separate two lots of pax for boarding the same plane.

At Paris, all the pax getting off are treated as Schengen arrivals and do not go through passport control.

All those arriving at LGW go through immigration since they have exited the Schengen zone.

Makes it tricky with these stopping services!

[Intruder]

So, in the EU, who is Schengen and who is not? Is anyone outside the EU Schengen? Why does it have to be so complicated?

[BackPacker]

Intruder, that's politics and history for you. There's actually at least four different notions of "Europe" right now, and whether a country is in or out of one of these four depends on whatever treaty they signed up for.

First, there's "geographical" Europe. Basically everything west of, and including, the Baltic states, Poland, Slovakia et ceterea down to Greece. To a certain extent, the western most parts of Russia are also considered to be part of Europe.

Then there's the European Union. This is a treaty ("of Rome", and heavily modified with the treaty of Maastricht) between most (but not all) European states, which started as a treaty to stabilize the price of coal and steel after WW2. Today the EU is able to make laws that are automatically applied in all EU member states. It's got a council of ministers, a parliament and such. Most former East-European states are now getting in, and there's even discussions with Turkey about whether they are allowed in or not.

Then there's the EMU, I think it's called. It's the subset of countries from the EU that have swapped their local currency for the Euro. Sometimes called the Eurozone as well. In order to become part of this pact, I think you have to be a member of the EU and have to apply some very strict budgeting rules to your government finances.

Then there's the Schengen agreement. It's a treaty between several EU states (plus, strangely enough, a few non-EU states as well) to abolish internal border checks, essentially taking the free trade concept to the limit. (As an example, I drove from NL to France a few weeks ago, without stopping at the NL/Belgium border, and again without stopping at the Belgium/French border. I also did not stop in Belgium itself for any reason - my wheels were turning the whole time.)

The UK is member of the EU, but is not part of the Eurozone and also not part of the Schengen area. But Iceland, on the other hand, is, as far as I know, not part of the EU, is also not part of the Eurozone, but did have a free trade agreement with various Scandinavian states before the Schengen agreement was signed. They did not want the trade restrictions back, so Iceland subscribed to the Schengen treaty. Denmark is all the way in, but hasn't swapped their local currency for the Euro. Instead they have a fixed exchange rate and on a more practical level, you can pay everywhere in Euro in Denmark anyway.

Wikipedia, as always, has the definitive list of names that are in each treaty. Being European, it still boggles my mind to remember who subscribed to what.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_union
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurozone
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Agreement

Oh, did I mention NATO already? Most European states, plus the US?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO

[Swedish Steve]

With Schengen an international flight between two countries both in the schengen agreement is treated like a Domestic flight, i.e. no passport control/Immigration, only Photo ID is needed for travel.
Finnair have a flight that operates HEL-ARN-BOS.
This flight carries local pax HEL-ARN, as well as pax HEL-BOS.
To travel between HEL and ARN you only need an ID card as both are Schengen. But as this flight is going to the US, it departs from the Non-Schengen area at HEL. To get into this area you must have a passport. This is pointed out at the time of booking, but not everyone reads the small print, and pax are denied travel.