Licencing Question

[BluntM8]

Apologies if this has been covered before, I have a couple of licencing questions.

I hold a UK PPL(A), which was issued in December 2004. I obtained it through the RAF EFT equivalency scheme (I forget the exact name) by completing the qualifying cross country.

When it arrived it came with a note saying:

"The authority notes that you have not yet been granted a Flight Radiotelophony Operators Licence (R/T Licence)"

and under section XII Radiotelophony Privileges it states "No Entries".

So, what does this really mean to me? Do I have to do another test or exam before I go flying? And is this easy to arrange?

Secondly, for the above reason and the fact that I've been somewhat busy flying in the RAF I've never actually flown a civilian light aircraft (well, the Tutor, I guess!) so I think I will need to revalidate the licence. Does that mean more cash to the CAA?

Sorry if these are obvious questions, but I'm flumoxed and I've tried reading Lasors and it made my head spin!

Thanks,

Blunty

[foxmoth]

You do not legally need to do the r/t test before flying - you just can't use the radio, which is a bit impractical at most airfields! If you have not done anything about it (i.e. revalidated by experience/signature) your SEP rating is out of date and will need revalidating by test (not cash to the CAA just aircraft and examiner costs), you could probably get the r/t and flight test done at the same time. There may be a way of getting your r/t licence based on your RAF experience but this is not an area I know.:}

[A Very Civil Pilot]

If you operate a radio, you need an FRTO licence. Private flying from an unlicensed strip in G airspace, there is no need for a radio. However it's not much of a course to do, and will expand your opportunities.

Here (http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/43/Air%20Ground%20Examiners%20List.pdf) is the CAA's list of radio examiners.

Revalidating the PPL will be a skills test with an examiner. Lasors section F1.5;

F1.5 RENEWAL OF SINGLE-ENGINE PISTON
– SEP (LAND), TMG CLASS RATINGS
Where licence holders have been unable to renew a
SEP (Land) or TMG Class Rating for a period not
exceeding 5 years from the date of expiry, they will be
required to complete the following requirements:
i. The CAA will require no mandatory additional
training. Applicants should complete training at
their own discretion sufficient to pass the Skill
Test.
ii. Complete the Skill Test in accordance with
Appendices 1 & 3 to JAR-FCL 1.240 with a JAR
Authorised Examiner. For renewal of an
instrument rating if held, please refer to Section
E1.5.
iii. Pass an oral theoretical knowledge examination
conducted by the Examiner as part of the skill
test.
iv. A UK Authorised Examiner can sign the
Certificate of Revalidation page (FCL150CJAR)
within a UK national pilot’s licence. An Examiner
qualified in accordance with JAR-FCL (in any
fully compliant JAA Member State) can sign a
Certificate of Revalidation page within a
JAR-FCL licence. The LST/LPC form, completed
as a renewal, should be sent to CAA PLD.
v. The CAA will charge no fee provided that the
Examiner signs the Certificate of Revalidation.

[foxmoth]

Revalidating the PPL will be a skills test with an examiner.

[pedant on] You are not revalidating the PPL which is valid for 5 years, you are revalidating your SEP rating.[/pedant off]:rolleyes:

[A Very Civil Pilot]

Pedantry accepted!! :ok:

[BluntM8]

Great, thanks very much.

I guess the next question that follow is what is the requirements of a skills test? My best guess would be:

Get airborne, climb to a suitable height.
Incipient and fully developed spin.
Stalls, clean, in the finals turn and on the final approach.
Steep/Max rate and Max poss rate turns.
Aeros sequence.
Emergency leading to a PFL somewhere.
Normal, low flapless and glide circuits.

Anything else I should prepare for?

Blunty

[BEagle]

Get airborne, climb to a suitable height. First you do the weight and balance and RW performance calcs! Then you do the normal pre-flight preparation.

Pilot navigation leg of about 20 min.

Incipient and fully developed spin. Not required.

Stalls, clean, in the finals turn and on the final approach. One clean, fully developed, plus one other incipient stall.

Steep/Max rate and Max poss rate turns. Only 45 deg steep turns are required.

Aeros sequence. Not required.

Emergency leading to a PFL somewhere. Off-aerodrome PFL required.

Normal, low flapless and glide circuits. Normal and flapless only, plus a low go-around and an EFATO. Also an aborted take-off (e.g. engine failure during touch-and-go).

Normal post-flight activity.

If you are a QSP with in excess of 2000 TT (see LASORS D3.3 for the full requirements), you can simply apply for a FRTOL. If you are a QSP with less than that, you are exempt the RT Practical exam. You should already have passed the Communications (PPL) theory exam as it was certainly a JAR-FCL PPL(A) requirement for the PPL in 2004 - so a word in the right ear and the usual fee to the CAA and you should be able to have a FRTOL issued without further formality.

[3 Point]

Hi Blunty,

LASORS section B1.4 say that as a QSP (qualified Service Pilot, which I assume you are) within 12 months of a flying appointment (I assume you are currently in a flying job) you are exempt from the RTF practical test. It also says that if you have passed the JAR-FCL communications written exam (which I assume you did with your PPL) you are exempt from the written exam.

I'd say therefore that you have met the requirements for issue of an FRTOL (if my assumptions are correct) and simply need to apply. Check your pms!

Happy landings

3 Point

[Whopity]

But the written exam, which he clearly indicated he didn't have to take,I obtained it through the RAF EFT equivalency scheme (I forget the exact name) by completing the qualifying cross country. is only valid for 12 months for the issue of a stand alone FRTOL. AIC 19/2004 White 95.

[Keygrip]

[/pedant on] It's not a revalidation. It's a renewal. [/pedant off]

[BEagle]

... perhaps you might ask... why the written exam can be valid for 3.5 years for PPL issue (first exam, all others taken in 18 month period, then all valid for 24 months) for licence issue but only 1 year for FRTOL issue?
Yes, it's renewing a SEP Class Rating rather than having the Licence re-issued (yes, I know the CAA call it 'renewal' of the licence, but that's because someone at the Belgrano cocked up the form).
BluntM8, LASORS 2004 stated:
Graduates of No. 44(or subsequent) JEFTS course, who are presented with a full accreditation course completion certificate (annotated with a green border), are credited with the practical Communications test. The RTF written examination will be taken as part of the full JEFTS course.
Graduates presented with a partial accreditation course completion certificate (annotated with a yellow border) are credited the practical Communications test only.
Why didn't you apply for your FRTOL at the time? Or was it a cock-up by whoever forget to get you to fill in the correct form?
If you either took, or were credited with, the RTF written exam at the time and have been using RT ever since in military aircraft, perhaps you could plead dullness and ask for the FRTOL to be issued accordingly? There is nothing in the accreditation terms which indicates any time limit to your military credit that I can find...

[BluntM8]

Thank you very much - that's a wealth of information and thankfully it's all presented in a manner my little brain understands!

I will have to dig out my certificates to check the exact wording, but as I recall I did the actual course in 2003 and didn't apply until 2004. The matter is further complicated by the fact I was chopped on BFJT and subsequently re-roled as a WSO so am not a QSP.

You've given me the clues I think I need to solve the mystery - many thanks. Time for me to put some legwork in to make it happen!

Blunty