Area or Aerodrome?

[Vicki280_1]

I am at the stage at college where I have to decide which way I want to go Area or Aerodrome, but I am struggling.

I think both look very good and would offer me the daily challenge that I crave.

Long term I would like to maybe move abroad and don't know which of these would offer me the best oppourtunities abroad.

If anyone can help :confused:

[Standard Noise]

Went through all 5 rating exams at the college and even though I was offered a shot at Area (after a brief spell of madness in TC), I left NATS and went to work at the pointy end of things. Can't imagine being back in a centre again.

Look at it this way, most twr/app people I know love doing radar, but it's nice to look out at the shiny smartie tubes as well. Not too often mind, but a bit of sun is nice now and again.

[flower]

Looking long term within the company I would say area is your best bet . I loved working at the airports nothing quite like the buzz of the place and doing both aerodrome and approach but the money, the good jobs and all the real prospects lie in area.

[MancBoy]

Plus,one train of thought going around is that Mr Barron is preparing NATS to flog the airports side anyway.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

<<the daily challenge that I crave>>

Not wholly sure that this should be your primary concern and I hope you didn't apply to join ATC simply for that. If you get posted somewhere quiet you're going to be disappointed!! My first SATCO, back in 1966 said "Bren, remember this - once you're validated and got some experience it's money for old rope". Nothing that happened in the subsequent 36 year up to the time I retired caused me to question that statement (although I guess many on here may).

[Phantom99]

When I made my request a few years ago I had no idea either, however in the end I chose Area primarily because of where I could be posted - Area jobs will eventually be rationalised into Scottish or Swanwick, either places I would have been happy to live at.

I ended up at LACC, really enjoy it although the training does generally take longer than aerodrome/approach (no comments please! :) )

[ImnotanERIC]

there is more room to move around within the uk by doing tower. I know of many people that have had 2 or 3 airports in their career already. in my opinion radar is where the magic happens

[TinPusher]

Area is the rating that is sought after if you have a desire to work overseas. Any which way, goodluck!:)

[Gonzo]

Depends if you want to do some proper ATC or play computer games. :E

Seriously though (and I tell this to the guys I interview - if you're the Vicki I think you are I might have told you this already!), I know of plenty of people who put one down as their preference and got the other, but none of them regret it now.

[Vicki280_1]

At the moment the reason I am so stuck is the fact that I like the sound of both and as there are limited spots (7 or less) I want to make my choice count.

I guess i wanted some other perspectives to help me make my decision.

I know typical woman, can't make her mind up, but seriously all advice helps.

;)

[Vicki280_1]

Do all the aerodromes take on new trainees or is it just a select few? If so which aerodromes take new trainees straight from college?

;)

[Gonzo]

I think all units now potentially take trainees from the college. Of course, not all of them will have vacant training slots when you come to the end of your course. On my course (many years ago now) we had trainees go to: Heathrow, Gatwick, Birmingham, Edinburgh, Aberdeen and Farnborough. Also four went to TC to do Heathrow Approach (we all used to do the Approach Radar Course too).

[G-OFUK]

Accept that the decision is not actually yours and that you are probably going to area.

Don't state a preference on the form - that way you'll be happy with whatever you get and then as soon as you're earning above the minimum wage you probably won't care anyway.

Predicament - sorted.

[BigBoeing]

Im aerodrome so I obviously favour that. However:
If you have genuine interest in aviation/aircraft, and I don't mean a spotter then go aerodrome! As someone else stated you get far more opportunity to move around. From personal experience I think the buzz of working at a large international airport beats driving into a council estate everyday.:} As does watching the sun come up at 5am from the tower.
Seriously, both are amazing and most people would not change what they do whether it was their first choice or not. It's all down to you.
Also, another point that may sway you, coming from the college on the pittance that trainees are paid now, you will be on big money within a year, (most likely a lot less) if you go aerodrome. Some area trainees I knew waited over a year and a half just to start training! Good luck

[REVOLUTION]

From a social point of view, If you end up working at a tower there may only be about 5-10 people per watch compared to 50+ at an Area centre.

Nats airports probably will be sold off as it's the Area centre's that make all the money.

You'll earn more at an Area centre.

In my opinion radar is much more rewarding than tower.

[SACrIGGER]

Go and sit in with with all three disciplines (approach as well, you may go there after aerodrome.) That way you are getting an unbiased view of them for yourself, and also showing the instructors that you have an interest, which can only be a positive thing when it come to choosing who goes where.

Don't be shy, there is no prior booking required, just turn up and ask either a student or an instructor if it will be ok to sit in.

Good luck with your decision. Ian.

[Gonzo]

I know MancBoy's been waiting for me to say this, but there are some units where the money is the same, possibly more....:}

[SINGAPURCANAC]

TWR/APP/RDR- Definitely!
When I was in school ACC had another name ( and still has) -MINE!
TWRs has better view, usually less staff than ACC , more closer relationship between coleagues, more fun and so on...
But, there is also another side of work at TWRs. Regardless country of living you may be delegated to some small, remote twr or to some place where you don't want to live and work, while if you decide to go to ACC , ACC are usually located to big cities and centres so you may live in better place. All those things are relative and the the best thing is that you make decesion alone.
Don't forget that in many cases salary at TWRs/APP is less than salaries at ACC. There is no reason for such treatment but ACC has better lobby. Believe or not but job at APP/RDR is 10 times ( at least) harder ( higher workload) than at asociated ACC sector.
If you live in Europe don't forget about FABs, which will hapen ( in future) . It means that number of ACC will be reduced so there is possibility that some ACC ATCOs loose positions.
Good luck! ( you will need it)

[Geffen]

Gonzo,

Are you hinting at the dreaded 'B' word?

On a serious note Tower is where the best views are but both will be rewarding in their own right.

Revolution,

Surely Area makes all the money by being a monopoly, does it not?
Some airports are making money and besides airports side of the business is the only area where true growth is possile. (at this time)

[Gonzo]

My dear Geffen, how the devil are you?:ok:

No, actually, I was thinking of the O word, then the L word, then the W word.

Outer London Weighting, for those not up on their TLAs.:}

[Geffen]

Absolutley marvellous old chap. Hope you enjoyed your vacation.

OLW makes perfect non-inflamatory sense!

[MancBoy]

Gonzo, three things...................................................... ...............90k

with no overtime added!

[niknak]

Depends if you want to stay in the UK.

No doubt that the best, and highest paying salaries outside the UK are for area ATCOs, but you've got to take the long term view and decide what you want to be doing when you are 45 and unlikely to be able or want to move to another unit before retirement.

If you leave the UK, your previously validated CAA ratings expire after 5 years, thereafter you have to do it all over again.

Persue an area career with NATS and there's no doubt that you'll have a very well paid job for life, but very limited opportunity to move elsewhere - Swanwick or Prestwick in the UK, Eurocontrol or the Middle East and limted opportunities elswhere.
Take the tower option and you are stuck in the UK, you have the option of working at any NATS airport which will have you but to work at a non NATS unit you will need the APS (Approach Radar) rating.

At either Area or Airport you will start at the bottom of a big heap and be a very small fish in a big sea for a long time, but that doesn't matter because, although as a jobbing ATCO you might earn £5K less than a supervisor, you won't take the work home with you - which, although they may deny it - all supervisors do.

Whatever choice you make will be the right one for you, just don't be impressed or influenced by those with big egos and limited experience.

Good luck.

[Geffen]

Mancboy,
No different from a certain aerodrome then?

[MancBoy]

Nope, so EGLL can't be that special can it?

[Geffen]

Who said LL was special?

[BOB FC]

Vicki
If you've any desire whatsoever to try TWR or APC then put down aerodrome or approach on your form. That way you'll have a chance (albeit slim) of getting one of them. As soon as you put down Area, that's what you'll get. If you put No Pref, you'll also get Area.
As has been mentioned before, whichever one you'll get you'll end up loving and believing it's better than the others anyway so try not to get too attached to anything!
Ultimately it will be mainly out of your hands so best advice is to just concentrate on getting through your exams and summatives, then worry about it later.
Good luck!

[REVOLUTION]

GEFFEN

I was just stating the facts when I said area makes NATS all the money, the reasons why are completely irrelevant to this topic.

[smellysnelly2004]

Definately agree with Sacrigger.
Try to sit in on some Area/Aerodrome Sims. There's no way you can make a decent decision until you watch what happens. I appreciate that the Sims at college are different from operational work but they at least give a good indication.
When I was on basic and watched the aerodrome sim it was like a different world. The area sims are reasonably similar to basic but with more a/c, multiple strips for each a/c and more flexibilty when it comes to 'proving separation!'

[ebenezer]

Nats airports probably will be sold off

Whilst this might or might not be true, there's an equal possibility under SESAR (Single European Skies) that HMG could accept IAA, AENA or DFS for example, taking over the NATS en-route operation (there would be absolutely no reason, operational, political or legal why this couldn't happen). Whilst your salary would probably be protected under TUPE, your pension would not (the same would apply to the NATS airports business if sold off). Therefore, in making any decision if you're enabled to do so, don't take these factors into account.

It's true to say that there is more demand for area ATC skills on a world-wide scale, but conversely, if you don't necessarily want to work abroad but at some point in the future, you get disillusioned with the area side of things, there'd be no alternative to NATS for you within the UK if you're an area-only rated controller.

You pays your money and takes your choice... :hmm:

[BDiONU]

Plus,one train of thought going around is that Mr Barron is preparing NATS to flog the airports side anyway.
Uuuumm, NATS is effectively 2 different companies now , NSL (airports) and NERL (area) in part pushed that way due to the regulator requiring there be no cross subsidy between the two. NSL must stand on its own 2 feet financially or it would be sold off as no company can continue to be run at a loss.
There are financial savings to be made by 'grouping' all the NSL business together in headquarters type areas, pay, finance, purchasing etc. Der Rot Barron isn't intent on selling off NSL but ensuring that it remains viable by making a profit. If NSL cannot make a profit with its centralised 'admin' headquarters then who out there is likely to be able to without slashing staff pay costs?

BD

[ebenezer]

due to the regulator requiring there be no cross subsidy between the twoExcept in respect of the 'approach radar' services to the five major London airports where at present for City and Luton, NSL pays NERL to provide the service on the former's behalf as a 'sub-contractor' and which arrangement will under the changes driven by SESAR , eventually extend also to Gatwick, Heathrow and Stansted... :8

[CAP493]

Another important factor to consider in whether to go for a career in Area or Aerodrome is where and how you'd like to live.

In the UK, as far as Area goes there are now really only two locations - the South Coast somewhere commutable to/from Swanwick or the West Coast of Scotland somewhere commutable to/from Prestwick.

As far as Aerodrome goes, even just in NATS, there are many locations stretching from South Wales and the Avon area all the way to the east coast of Scotland, several with reasonable house prices, relatively uncluttered roads and a generally agreeable quality of life.

[BDiONU]

Except in respect of the 'approach radar' services to the five major London airports where at present for City and Luton, NSL pays NERL to provide the service on the former's behalf as a 'sub-contractor'
I think I missed the point of your post. NSL are paying NERL to provide the service, so no subsidy 'cause the regulator audits the books.

BD

[Gingerbread Man]

When asked to state a preference prior to starting at Hurn this July, I said I really didn't mind as I didn't know enough about each in detail, but if pushed would probably say Aerodrome. I've now been told i'm on this stream. I don't know if this is likely to change depending on the needs of The Company or not.

I'm wondering if i've misunderstood the Aerodrome role. I was under the impression it was a combination of tower and approach radar for most airports, and that London airports it would either be just tower, or just approach, which I thought was LTCC. Is this incorrect?

Cheers

Ginger ;)

[Ivor_Novello]

I'm wondering if i've misunderstood the Aerodrome role. I was under the impression it was a combination of tower and approach radar for most airports, and that London airports it would either be just tower, or just approach, which I thought was LTCC. Is this incorrect?


Sounds correct to me.
The Aerodrome course has changed considerably in recent times but that's about it.

[niknak]

Although there are some NATS airports where the Approach function is provided at the airfield as opposed to centrally at Swanwick, the provison of approach radar via an area centre will become increasingly the norm.

I am non NATS, but if I was applying for a cadetship now I'd definately go for an aerodrome streaming purely because I enjoy the buzz of working at an airfield and sorting out what goes on on the ground.

That's not to say that area isn't equally as challenging, each discipline has it's own set of challenges and can be equally as daunting.

I would try and decide before the interview what you'd really like to do and don't be afraid to express that desire.