Finally, some balls - NJS Pilots take industrial action

[Capn Bloggs]

Now the pineapple's gunna be on the other #$%^:}:E:D

[The J55 Riddler]

Blaster

Your lack of faith in your teammates and angry, frustrated retorts entertain me. You even seek to derogate your Cabin Crews in an attempt at insulting me. One day your life may be in the hands of your crew.

When this is all over I will be around ready to shake your hand and share a smile at some of our comments. Until then I am going to grow up and watch a movie instead.:ok:

P.S. Vive le revolution.

[flyingfox]

Five Dogs. You're a such a sneering Jerk. (Apparently homosexual as well!) I really can believe you're a True Blue CIA operative. Your support is the last thing we want. F Off!

[MinimaNoContact]

Flying Fox...

It appears fivedogs is in ADL, possibly someone involved in management and sick of seeing pilots and friends constantly screwed over... having someone in ADL on the pilots side would be a refreshingly new concept!

From what I understand, its not so much 'strike' action that has been approved, but Protected Industrial Action... slightly different? correct me if Im wrong. Either way, in my opinion... fight for something more than CPI! For christs sake, nows the time to push hard. Raise the bar then negotiate. Dont start low, then fight and whinge again in 6 months time when this is all forgotten and you've negotiated nothing less than an AWA you had 3 yrs ago! Management will kick back and laugh.

Guys are walking now, why? Well, its not because of CPI. Look at the big picture, aviation has alot to offer these days...

[five dogs]

Flyingfox, you homophobic moron.
I take offence at that homosexual comment. :mad::mad::mad::mad:
I bat for all sides!!:E :E :E

I will be in the sim soon, and I will find out who you are and your mine boy!!

I am not sick of watching pilots being screwed over, I just want to be the one who does it. I hate pilots but I need them on side to find out the goss.

I honestly believe I am an intelectual generation or two above all of you!:D

[Shed Dog Tosser]

I honestly believe I am an intelectual generation or two above all of you!

Clearly, as is demonstrated by your keen sense of fairness and flair with the queen's english.

Boys, the sign says " Do not feed the Monkeys ".

I will be in the sim soon, and I will find out who you are and your mine boy !!

Wow, in addition to being in awe of your fantastic grammar, again, personally I am underwhelmed by the grand image you hold of yourself, oh and the threats, just sends shivers down my spine, be still my beating hetrosexual heart.

And to the ignore box for that onanist.

[tipsy2]

From the ABC website for your information

tipsy....................:rolleyes:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/10/04/2051257.htm


Pilots prepare for action over pay dispute
Posted 24 minutes ago

Pilots who fly for QantasLink will soon vote on proposed workbans of up to two days, after the Industrial Relations Commission (IRC) paved the way for protected industrial action over a pay dispute.

The Commission has granted permission for scores of pilots from Western Australia, the Northern Territory and Queensland to vote in a secret ballot.

Transport Workers Union (TWU) spokesman Rick Burton says he is confident his members will support industrial action, and warns it could lead to a disruption in flights used by mining industry workers.

Unions are demanding a collective employment agreement.

Pilots employer National Jet says the push for a ballot is premature, but the company says it will be prepared for any industrial action that may eventuate.

[RENURPP]

INTERIM DECISION

[1] The Transport Workers Union of Australia (TWU) has applied for an order for a protected action ballot in respect of employees of National Jet Systems Pty Ltd (NJS). The application was lodged on 28 September 2007 and heard in Perth on 3 October 2007. NJS opposed the application on the following grounds:

(1) the TWU is not genuinely trying to reach agreement;:mad:

(2) the TWU application does not adequately detail the types of employees who are to be included in the ballot; and :mad:

(3) the TWU has not included adequate details of the nature of the proposed industrial action. :mad:

[2] Both the TWU and NJS adduced evidence and made extensive submissions in the hearing. In the course of its submissions the TWU amended its application in so far as it relates to the nature of the proposed industrial action. The amendment was not opposed. I have considered the evidence and the submissions and I satisfied that an order for a protected action ballot should be made. In particular I am satisfied that the TWU is genuinely trying to reach agreement and that the application adequately details the types of employees who will be included in the ballot. I am also satisfied that the proposed industrial action has the requisite degree of specificity.

[3] NJS, in anticipation of an order being made, applied for an order extending the period of notice of any industrial action that may be given pursuant to s.441 of the WR Act to seven days in lieu of the three days therein prescribed. Section 463(5) makes provision for the Commission to extend the notice period if it is satisfied that there are exceptional circumstances justifying the period of written notice.

[4] NJS submitted that there are exceptional circumstances for extending the period in this case. Those circumstances were said to be in relation to the air services NJS provides to the mining industry and to the territories of Christmas Island and Cocos Island. The evidence was that three days may be inadequate time for arranging alternative services in the event of strike action. Much would depend on the availability of alternative services and the existing business commitments of those services.

[5] I am satisfied that strike action by NJS pilots is likely to have some impact on its clients. But impact on third parties is as likely in many other industries as it is in the airline industry. I am not satisfied that the likely consequences of strike action constitute exceptional circumstances justifying and extension of the notice period. :ok: :ok: :ok:

[6] More detailed reasons for my decision will be published on 5 October 2007.

Appearances:

T. Borgeest for Transport Workers’ Union of Australia.

A. Gotting of Counsel for National Jet Systems Pty ltd.

Hearing details:

2007.

Perth:
October, 3 :D :D :D :D
http://www.airc.gov.au/container.html?http%3A//www.airc.gov.au/publications/all_decisions/

[Capn Bloggs]

Now the S is going to hit the F!!

[RENURPP]

Pilots employer National Jet says the push for a ballot is premature, but the company says it will be prepared for any industrial action that may eventuate.
Yeh, the CEO has left the country and the rest will hide under their tables and not answer the phone. Ops normal really!!:p

[cunninglinguist]

Pilots employer National Jet says the push for a ballot is premature, but the company says it will be prepared for any industrial action that may eventuate.

Poor, sad, pathetic, moronic, self obsessed, dillusional, pathetic idiots.
Thats the good points of the CIA........................................

Maybe the admiral thinks he can call on the armed forces a la '89, that should go over like a wrought iron hang glider :}

[illusion]

On the basis that there were five people at the Admiral's naval farewell in Darwin of which three of them HAD to be there- I don't think he holds much sway in that area anymore.

[Lodown]

Here's a suggestion...

All the pilots at NJS and Rex tender their resignation, incorporate a company, place a reasonable price on pilots' services and sell piloting services back to the organizations that need it, including Virgin and Qantas, by the hour, day, year or km. Down the track, lease or purchase simulators. Treat the organizations as customers.

Helmet on and DUCK!

[Doctor Smith]

All the pilots at NJS and Rex tender their resignation, incorporate a company, place a reasonable price on pilots' services and sell piloting services back to the organizations that need it, including Virgin and Qantas, by the hour, day, year or km.
= Aircrews Control ala Impulse :yuk::yuk:

[blaster666]

Gentlemen - you are forgetting the tag of the forum - "Finally, some balls - NJS Pilots TAKE industrial action.

Me Thinks the capability to take the action ain't one step closer to those balls being shown - the cohorts around me seem to be VERY reluctant (even quivering) that they will have actually have to do anything & instead hoping, pleading, that the CIA will offer anything that seems reasonable as a way out. This is a TWU campaign being driven by a union used to dealing with those without the intelligence or capability to negotiate commercially.

In the meanwhile - I ain't being treated like a bus driver. I'm getting me an AWA for 5 years with a net outcome WAY in advance of CPI just with a little honest business sense & one on one negotiation......but hey that's just me.

.......................onward you ball bearers - way to go - I can't wait !!

[RENURPP]

BLASTER either you can see into the future or you don't know what your talking about.
What is the CPI going to be next year??
What is it going to be in 5yrs??
If you are happy with what you and LC negotiated, then I am happy for you. Sit back and relax and enjoy it. I would:O
I don't believe what you accepted is good enough and I won't accept it.
If you are happy, you said you are, and you don't believe the pilots have the balls to vote yes to IA, then why are you so concerned?? Relax man.
Your on an AWA!!!!:yuk:

[blaster666]

Oh - the horror. Get off the grass, what F%$K difference does an AWA vs CA have to do with anything except for the fact that one requires enough sheep to put their hooves in the air before it can be passed.

In the end, they are pieces of paper with words that describe the terms & conditions that govern my employment. I will get more advance than you and the baaaaaaaaas will ever get because I play management at their own game......understanding what they want & giving it to them in a way that doesn't cost me anything but allows them to give me what I want which is more $$$$$$$$$$ :O

Good luck with your strategy :ugh:

PS - I don't care what CPI is because I will get a % above whatever it is :D

[Whitney]

interesting item I heard about the other day - generally, those on CA are on average at least $70 per fortnight (I think it was) better off than those on a AWA
I guess depending upon your perspective, it could be worth the fight.

[Whiskey Oscar Golf]

Blaster 666 you are the sheep in this instance. If you did some research before you started tapping away you would understand a few pertinant facts. AWA's and CA's are significantly different documents. As the study performed by Uni NSW pointed out, people on AWA's in bottom level employment are $100.00 worse off than people on CA's and work longer hours. The study found some other inequities with regard to T&Cs as well. I will add that Joe "Shrek" Hockey was critical of the study that his govt half funded, calling the academics union lackeys. He's now in for a defamation suit if he doesn't apologise, but hey he got media play.

There are and have always been significant differences between AWA's and CA's. They relate to the whole working group being able to bargain, not individuals and the people following them into jobs not being placed in a position of getting less than their peers for the same job. Now if your argument is that people are different and some work better than others then put those conditions in the CA. They are as flexible a document as AWA's. They also have a level of protection with regards to minimums offered to new starts.

Now Blaster you strike me as the sort of person that would undermine the common good to get those extra bits of silver for yourself. If I'm wrong I apologise, but the ideal of social justice is probably lost on you. I'll say again I wish the NJS mob all the best and hope they don't become too polarised and everyone in the process gets a decent say. Without sounding like a cliche it's important you all stand together and don't let people get marginalised on both sides of the argument.

Sorry for the long post again people but this propaganda without facts is getting tiresome.

[JetRacer]

As the study performed by Uni NSW pointed out, people on AWA's in bottom level employment are $100.00 worse off than people on CA's

Whiskey Oscar Golf,

Just to clarify that is $100 per week. I know I could use that extra $5200 per year in my pocket! :E

Oh, but hang on, the CEOs and all need that to help pay for their multi-million dollar salaries.. :ugh::{:rolleyes::mad:

[The Voice]

A quick google search turned up what W.O.G. was talking about ... and it does make worthwhile reading.

to check it out http://www.news.com.au/business/story/0,23636,22517596-462,00.html

I think there are some interesting things to have come out as a result of the survey.

[AerocatS2A]

I think you'd need to read the actual study to get some meaningful information relevant to pilots.

What the blurb says is that low skilled workers get a better deal on a collective agreement. It also says that skilled workers with better bargaining power do better on individual contracts. There's no doubt that pilots are a "skilled" group. But the question of whether they have bargaining power depends on the industry at the time and it also depends on the individual pilots.

Anway, good luck to the NJS guys, I hope they contribute to making NJS a desirable place to work again.

[amos2]

What a pity!...

many of the posts above just go to prove why the profession of airline pilot is now on a par with that of taxi driver!

Highly skilled people, years of dedication, years of study, years of gaining experience in GA, or charter, or Instructing, or the Airforce and then finally the Holy Grail!...an Airline position!

And what happens next?

Along comes XXXX like triple 6 and his mates. The 07 version of the 89 XXXXX who destroyed the profession of Airline pilot all those years ago!
When you consider the world wide demand for pilots today, what you should be paid for the high quality qualifications you have, what in actual fact you are being offered for those qualifications, then surely it becomes obvious what you should do!

Unless, of course, you're happy to be a selfish, deadbeat taxi driver like triple 6, who will end up a bigger loser than his 89 forbears!

[Ross Oakley]

Amos2 well said. Blaster and those numbers, obviously do not care two Knobs of goat ****e about those that are coming behind them into this business. I for one, and am very sure, a whole lot of others at NJS, (pilots that is), do not want new pilots having to work for peanuts while persons of massive self indulgence, like Blaster say "stuff you jack I'm allright". Tell me blaster if there is a collective agreement negotiated that is better than your Very Impressive AWA then you will want no part of it??
And you do not think that we can stick together?????
WATCH THIS!!!!

[Capt Claret]

Geez that Blaster bloke/blokette gets about. His/her location was Cairns not so long ago. :hmm:

[nig&nog]

amos and ross o

good posts, blokes/blokettes like b666 are why people like njs are is this mess. looks like they smell the wrong coffee and from clarets point of view they would have sore ankles travelling that distance

nog not nig

[DirtySanchezcousin]

Ross your comments are right on the money. The only problem is that your preaching is about 3 years to late ,when the original 717 deal was negotiated.
Why wouldn't you want to bargain your own agreement after the pilot group did such a wonderful job negotiating the last one? OH thats right we all got an increase in our phone allowance, in exchange for pay for your own endorsement and also we need you all to take pay cuts.

[cunninglinguist]

Holy Grail!...an Airline position!


It aint an Airline :ouch:

[amos2]

You see...the sad thing about triple 6 and his mates, Frozo, Lingus and others, is the fact that they will never see a triple 7!

Think about it! The young guys from 89 that were XXXXX on, moved on to bigger and better things in Oz, and around the world, to the extent that they now hold down senior check and training positions in the worlds airlines!

And, they have long memories!!

07 XXXXXX types like those mentioned above have their names passed on through the system and the system takes care of them!
Just keep that in mind!

[cunninglinguist]

You see...the sad thing about triple 6 and his mates, Frozo, Lingus and others, is the fact that they will never see a triple 7!


Unless I have mis-understood your last Amos, you are an idiot, and dont put me in with 666, frozo et al, I dont remember having ever agreed with any of their crap. You clearly know jack :mad: **** about me, for the record I spent 13 years at Nat Joke, and any NJS driver would know what I am talking about when I say " it aint an airline ", pretty sure most would agree too.

is the fact that they will never see a triple 7!

Yeh, you got that right, In about 12 months time will be looking at some nice shiny new 787s

So, up yours

[amos2]

Hmmm!...so you spent 13 years with an airline you consider "a joke" then leave to join another airline that no doubt you will also consider "a joke" in due course!

Oughta check your attitude, don't you think?

[Much Ado]

It has been a very long time since the word 'scab' was allowed on this forum...so I'll work on the basis people have forgotten and give them the benefit of the doubt amos2:mad: If memory serves the original amos was banned for using the word in the '89 wars' we had on here years ago.

Keep it civil or I'll lock the thread...the next person using 'scab' or any iteration thereof will be banned.:mad:

[Al E. Vator]

....can I ask why?

Is this Political Correctness gone mad?

Scab is a definition from an encyclopedia? It is not a derogatory term like Pr!ck or similar, although events surrounding scabs do have a tendency to divert down the path of use of vulgarities but 'Scab' has no such foul connotation.

So we are prohibited from calling a spade a spade, it is yet again a 'digging implement'.

[gas-chamber]

Using the S word in the context of this thread is a mis-use of the word. The original interpretation was that scabs were strike-breakers. NJS pilots are not strike breaking, merely selling themselves down the river. Prostituting perhaps, scabbing, no.

[blaster666]

Any use of the "S" word on here in reference to my comments is not only misplaced but misinformed. I have simply negotiated an individual agreement which is far in excess of anything I believe the chest beaters will be able to achieve by taking industrial action because they are too naive or lazy to get off their individual arses & look after themselves. That ain't "S...ing" gentlemen, it is called freedom & I ain't hitching my wagon to a bullock without a direction.

You are educated, professional & living as grown up's in the 21st century.

Think for yourselves, act by yourself and get what YOU want. In the end, the sum of the parts will be a more favourable pathway than the struggle to achieve a mediocre collective total.

[cunninglinguist]

Unless I have mis-understood your last Amos, you are an idiot

Yep, you are an idiot.

NJS is full of pilots that were " wronged " in '89, so I am not sure what grade of crack you are smoking. Hopefully nobody out there is stupid enough to put you in charge of anything more than a playstation 2.
I think I here your mum calling you for dinner, run along.

[flyingfox]

666. You are either management masquerading as a pilot or a C & T person. No line pilots have been (or would be) offered an individual AWA like you claim to have been given by NJS Management. The evidence to that is the reality of what actually is in the AWA's of the vast majority of pilots at NJS, and why they have had enough of the Company's crap. The management at NJS don't give anything away, so if you have some 'specially negotiated' individual AWA there will be a 'reason'. There is something very odd about your claims 666! :=

[Whiskey Oscar Golf]

Blaster, Blaster, Blaster, you really don't listen do you? Did you read my previous post about the current inequity between union CA's vs individual AWA's. It's a study, the voice put up the link, read it. Maybe you could have a look at the backlogs of "fairness test" breaches. Maybe you could look at the 45,000 that haven't even been looked at by Helen whatshername on the ad.

You may be like others and think, well hey I'm in the upper end of the market so it won't affect me. Wrong, think again, it will affect you and if not you, because you've sold yourself first, then maybe your kids and maybe in 3 years, 5 years, you then. There's the rub too blaster you act all smarmy about your individual bargaining power now. What happens when you change jobs, for whatever reason and you're told " no signee no start". What happens if a couple of airlines falter and supply picks up? Where will you be then, strong individual bargaining? No you'll either be managing or running to whoever can get you a better deal...

Sorry again for the long post but the record just keeps playing,:ugh:

[Spaz Modic]

:) I suspect Blaster is a pseudonym for Dick. :8

[flyingfox]

Then Five Muts must be his 'alter ego'!

[blaster666]

Gentlemen - I am not one of them - I am one of YOU. Just 'cause you wear blinkers when it comes to enhancing your employment conditions - doesn't mean you should be completely myopic when it comes to accepting that not all of us believe hollow threats of striking is the only way to get what you want.

Horror :eek: Shock :uhoh: !!!! .......maybe some of you could even get off your lazy arses & try to talk to management personally about what it would take for YOU to sign one of their documents.....

Hang on :} ......forgot it is better to keep the united bravado .......too hard :ouch: to think about what you can do to free up more cash for yourself..........let me join the picket :O........but......but......I can't find any picket.......:yuk: seems you boys must be enuchs after all :ok:

[KRUSTY 34]

blaster,

not sure what point you are trying to make.

I've been in this game for 22 years, and involved in the industrial scene for more than 10. I can tell you now that I have yet to see an airline management willing to contructively talk to their pilot group. I've seen lots of lip service, heard just about every excuse under the sun, and been witness to EBA negotiations that have lasted longer than the Korean war!!

Yet through all of this, not once have they actively sought council or dialouge with any employee group, let alone their largest.

If anyone can shed some light as to the reason for this frustrating phenomenon, then I would be more than happy to listen.

[Moniker]

without prejudice:

I'm a little curious, how could you negotiate something on your AWA, when I know others have tried and could not?

I ask this not in a malicious sense, it just seems to fly (pardon the pun) in the face of what others have tried however you seem to be the only one that has had success.

[Toolman101]

I am really curious 666, how, if as you state, you have managed to get a more favourable deal than every one else. I to, have had dealings with NJS management in the past , only to find you are talking to a blank wall

If you are so good at negotiation, you should put your hand up and be a rep. I'm sure we all would love to see you succeed where everyone else has failed:rolleyes:

[The J55 Riddler]

Ladies and Gentlemen,


I believe the Blaster about his workplace agreement.

What Blaster neglects to tell us is that he probably didn't personally engage with the management to negotiate the agreement. He probably employed the wonderous one from the AFAP to do his bidding. The wonderous one probably told him to stick with an AWA because a collective agreement would be impossible to achieve. The wonderous one probably approached the management with a special proposal to increase AWA conditions to help entice TWU members away from a collective agreement. In effect Blaster has used TWU leverage to gain better conditions for himself and good luck to him. It is the path of least resistance.

Blaster also forgot to mention that when the management decide not to pay up then Blaster will have to fight his own battle. I am sure Blaster is up to the challenge however it will take much time and money. Or the wonderous one could act for him but wonderous still hasn't finished the last dispute, but whats 2 1/2 years between friends.

Blaster, I wish you well and hope the management don't nibble away at your agreement over the next 5 years BUT please just admit to yourself and others that without the TWU presence you would not have received your lush terms and conditions.:ok:

[blaster666]

Gentlemen - we are (maybe reluctant but nevertheless) colleagues. We do not necessarily see eye to eye on this issue but I sincerely respect each of you for your passion and unique points of view. I wish you well for your battle & am not smug or contrite about the fact I have taken an alternative pathway and view with the same cynisicm as you do that I will not be sabotaged in the future.

[The J55 Riddler]

Blaster, without turning this into a love fest, I am not a reluctant colleague, I can see where you are at and understand that I am hard on the AFAP.

We follow different paths, thats Ok.

I am very reluctant about the management practices of our friends in ADL and regardless of which agreements people are on, I hope our management learn to have a little respect for their Pilots.

Simply, ADL managers STOP nibbling and attacking our agreements, terms and conditions.

There is enough to go around but you managers are wasting it by allowing disagreements to turn into senseless Court battles and Industrial disputes.

Aretha Franklin has the idea. RESPECT ;)

[flyingfox]

Meanwhile, with the possibility of industrial action looming, the prosecution of NJS by the OWS for breaches of Pilots AWAs is commencing in The Federal Magistrates Court in Perth this Monday (15-10-07). I believe NJS has employed a QC for their defence.