rights of way within the circuit

[basin]

Recently, another instructor asked me what was the right thing to tell his pupil who had asked him "who must give way to who within the circuit?" referring to if another aircraft was joining downwind as he was climbing out on crosswind leg and climbing to circuit height.

The instructor pointed out that although we have the "on the right, in the right rule", there is also the "aircraft flying in the vicinity of an aerodrome shall conform to the pattern of trafffic formed by other aircraft indending to land at that aerodrome" rule. So does an aircraft doing circuits that has only just climbed out from take off count as an aircraft intending to land at that aerodrome, and so who has right of way etc.

Similarly, if an another aircraft was to try to join base leg, whilst the student or any pilot for that matter was downwind/late downwind, what would the rights of way be?

Hope somebody can help

[fireflybob]

I presume you are referring to airfields which do NOT have a licensed ATSU, ie A/G or AFISO.

So does an aircraft doing circuits that has only just climbed out from take off count as an aircraft intending to land at that aerodrome, and so who has right of way etc.


Yes - Rule 16 (I think I have the right number!) applies - conform to traffic pattern etc.

Similarly, if an another aircraft was to try to join base leg, whilst the student or any pilot for that matter was downwind/late downwind, what would the rights of way be?


Same applies - the base leg joiner should not, in my opinion, be joining on base leg! (This has been discussed comprehensively on another thread!)

Also rules say that if two aircraft are approaching to land the lower aircraft has priority (emergencies excluded) except you should not cut in front of an aircraft which is already established on approach.

From a practical point of view instructors should teach "Go-Arounds" from Downwind, Base Leg AND Final which in certain circumstances you may have to do due other traffic.

Non Standard Cicuit Joins (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=287557)

[Kanu]

I thought it was 17? I could be and probably am wrong though:O

I was asked about priority in the circuit too. Whilst performing an overhead join are you to give way to traffic already in the circuit? The "on the right, in the right" rule seems to work for only a left hand circuit.

I said yes but now I'm not sure..

[BEagle]

Only one real rule:

If joining, fit in with those already established!

...and please, NEVER extend downwind beyond the 'flapless' turn-in point!

[fireflybob]

...and please, NEVER extend downwind beyond the 'flapless' turn-in point!

HERE, HERE!

[foxmoth]

Same applies - the base leg joiner should not, in my opinion, be joining on base leg!
Nothing wrong with thatprovided you give way to those already in the circuit, if you can hear where the others are and then get visual then no problem if you slot in properly.
Whilst performing an overhead join are you to give way to traffic already in the circuit? IMHO that is one of the points with a SOJ - it gives plenty of opportunity to establish where the other circuit traffic is and position yourself to fit in.:ok:

[bunnywabbit]

Interesting! What if the the speed in the circuit vary from a Cirrus at 125 and a C42 at 80 and all landing traffic has to backtrack because of a sodden taxiway plus maybe at rush hour five already in the circuit,with five others joining and someone on the RT giving last will and testement!

[foxmoth]

If you are flying something fast it does not mean you have to fly it at max speed, not sure what a Cirrus stalling speed is, but I am sure you can fly it slower, that and a bit of forward planning and you should not have too much of a problem, as far as someone blocking the r/t goes, if you have got your joining call in early enough (too many leave it until they are only a couple of mins away)then there is still no problem if you keep to the rights of way - though it can be that you may need to work a bit more at fitting in to the traffic, maybe even holding off or staying in the overhead until a suitable gap.

['Chuffer' Dandridge]

Circuit discipline relies on being able to either see those aircraft in front of you, or getting 'the big picture' by listening to the R/T. When you are following an aircraft on a 10 mile X-country circuit, is it any wonder that people get mixed up and cut each other up?

Unless told otherwise, standard overhead joins (to plan your circuit) and if faster than the aircraft in front, either slow down, or fly outside of it. If you start to catch up, make an early decision to do something about it...

And as for those who call "Long Finals" at 20 miles+ and then expect everyone else to give way......:rolleyes:

ditto the x-country circuit brigade who fly outside the ATZ:=

[BristolScout]

The basic tenet is that traffic established in the circuit has priority over joining aircraft. It is up to the joiner to fit in, regardless of performance differences. Two words sum up the drill: airmanship and consideration. Lots of good advice in this thread and I would add that, when visiting an unfamiliar airfield, check it does permit SOJs - some aerodromes don't have dead sides for various reasons.