How nervous should your instructor be?

[Adam_]

Is it normal for an instructor to be noticeably 'edgy' when a rational but somewhat incompetent (I am a learner, after all!) student is at the controls?

Should an instructor always appear calm and serene and in control, even when they're not? Is it ok for them just to be 'aware' of traffic rather than obsessing about it and grabbing at the controls when another plane is spotted? It's not as if I'm going to fly us into them!

I understand aviation carries a degree of risk but my chap seems to be in constant fear that I'm going to kill him which I'm beginning to feel is rubbing off on me and stifling my own performance. It's possible of course that something I do as a student could result in our untimely demise but that's what he signed up for, isn't it?

Sorry if this sounds like a rant, it's not. I like my instructor, he's a good pilot, a nice guy and his teaching style is good... if perhaps a little 'by the book'. It's just when I'm paying £140/hour + VAT I don't like to feel guilty for making the guy sweat!

[BackPacker]

I'm not a flight instructor, but my opinion is that a good instructor should give you room to make mistakes, up to the point where it becomes unsafe. At that point, the instructor should take over and take decisive action to avoid problems.

So if you or the instructor spots traffic miles away, takes over the controls and then just lets the plane continue on its present path, he was too early and probably too edgy, in my humble opinion. Instead, he should just let you deal with it, or give you verbal instructions for dealing with it. Did you talk to him or the CFI about this?

Obvious exception is in the very early stages of training, where the instructor should take over for take-offs, landings and other things that are simply beyond what the student can handle at that point. Or to demonstrate something which is very hard to explain verbally.

[Fuji Abound]

An instructor has to learn just like you.

Unfortunately the present systems does not encourage career instructors who have long and colourful logbooks so many having surprisingly few hours to their credit.

Whilst I am not an instructor, I do a reasonable amount of right seat flying. There are times during any flight when you realise that if the "student" makes a real mess of things recovering the situation is going to be interesting - fortunately such times are relatively few, and have a great deal to do with how close the ground is! In these situations there is a fine balance between how far you let the "student" go and when you take over. Ideally you want the student to go as far as is reasonable.

Of course you dont say how much instructing your man has done and perhaps there are other reasons for his anxiety. :)

A more informative answer might be possible if you gave some examples and described which excercises you are doing.

However to hopefully put your mind at rest there is very little you could do that will put you or him at real risk. There are a number of excercises where the instructor will be well aware that there is a risk of your getting the aircraft into a situation outside its normal envelope and he will be wary during these excercises and ready to take over before the situation becomes dangerous. Maybe you are at this stage?

Of course having clearly briefed you on the touch drills for a engine failure if you actually turn off the fuel the engine will stop and it jsut might not start again! The instructor should do a reasonable job of the FL but he is going to earn his keep. :) :)

[Whirlygig]

This doesn't sound good. I think you might need to have a chat with the Chief Instructor and maybe have another instructor.

When I think about all my instructors, they were each, to a man, unflappable, even once when I did make a very dodgy maneouvre (nearly resulting in a dynamic rollover). Only during the debrief was the severity impressed upon me; not in the cockpit.

Cheers

Whirls

[Adam_]

He's not a great deal older than I am. I've no idea how many hours he has - that struck me as a bit of a presumptuous question to ask ;).

My problem is lack of assertiveness. I'm used to being in a position of authority through my work and now the tables are turned and it's a little unnerving. It doesn't feel right to question anything even though I'm aware that I am the customer and should feel like I'm getting value for money.

Having said that, I seem to be progressing nicely enough and despite an *awful* circuits lesson today both my instructor and the CFI assure me I'm on target for getting my license in the minimum hours required.

[Fuji Abound]

they were each, to a man, unflappable

:)

maybe I am just bored.

[Adam_]

When I think about all my instructors, they were each, to a man, unflappable, even once when I did make a very dodgy maneouvre (nearly resulting in a dynamic rollover). Only during the debrief was the severity impressed upon me; not in the cockpit.


That's what I was after - I wanted to know that instructors like that actually existed before mentioning the subject to my buddy in the right hand seat :).

Thanks for the input guys.

[S-Works]

maybe I am just bored.

How can you be bored teaching? Are you an hours builder........

I love teaching and hope that every time someone flies with me they take something away that might just benefit them in the same was I always learn from my betters.

As for the nervous Instructor, do I start my tirade against young hours builders again or just keep quiet to save a ban................

There is a lot to be said for high hour PPL and Career Instructors.......

[Fuji Abound]

How can you be bored teaching? Are you an hours builder........

I am sorry Bose, nothing to do with the thread, instuctors and unflappable just amused me - strange sense of humour I know - sorry.

[sternone]

Is it normal for an instructor to be noticeably 'edgy' when a rational but somewhat incompetent (I am a learner, after all!) student is at the controls?


No, it's not normal.

Should an instructor always appear calm and serene and in control, even when they're not? Is it ok for them just to be 'aware' of traffic rather than obsessing about it and grabbing at the controls when another plane is spotted? It's not as if I'm going to fly us into them!


Yes, he should always appear calm, since he needs to be aware of what errors you might do before they arise.


I understand aviation carries a degree of risk but my chap seems to be in constant fear that I'm going to kill him which I'm beginning to feel is rubbing off on me and stifling my own performance. It's possible of course that something I do as a student could result in our untimely demise but that's what he signed up for, isn't it?


He needs another job, definitly not a flight instructor job for him!!!


Sorry if this sounds like a rant, it's not. I like my instructor, he's a good pilot, a nice guy and his teaching style is good... if perhaps a little 'by the book'. It's just when I'm paying £140/hour + VAT I don't like to feel guilty for making the guy sweat!

We all like the instructors, they are all nice, i flew 10 hours in my previous club, i posted some doubts i had here on the forum, and followed the good advice from people here, i changed from a flight club to a real flight school and oh boy, have things changed!!!

GET ANOTHER INSTRUCTOR NOW!!!

[MizzFlyer]

Is it normal for an instructor to be noticeably 'edgy' when a rational but somewhat incompetent (I am a learner, after all!) student is at the controls?
Do you have this effect on all instructors or just this one? Maybe you are scary to fly with :eek:
MF

[Whirlygig]

instuctors and unflappable just amused me

Fuji Abound, it was meant to! :ok:

Cheers

Whirls

MizzFlyer - not helpful :=

[Redbird72]

As a 5hr student, I don't really have the experience or knowledge to judge anyone, but I must say that I would be pretty unsettled by an instructor who fretted and grabbed at the controls all the time.

The two instructors that I've had have so far been cool and calm, and tell me how to put things right, rather than take immediate control. The only time he's done so was when my taxying went awry - I'm clearly more of a danger on the ground than in the air! :E

[Adam_]

I'm a student, of course I'm scary to fly with! My question though (which has now been answered) is whether it's part of the instructor's job to remain calm and confident despite this, if only on the outside.

I've only ever had one instructor (20 hours so far) except for my trial lesson so no real basis for comparison.

[sternone]

My question though (which has now been answered)

I hope you read the POH better than replys on your post !!! (see above) :


Yes, he should always appear calm, since he needs to be aware of what errors you might do before they arise.

[Say again s l o w l y]

There are always times of stress in the cockpit, it's just that some people are better at hiding it than others.

Ideally all FI's should be steely-eyed and unflappable, but reality isn't like that.

Very few FI's that I've ever met are nervous people, if they were they wouldn't last very long.

Have I ever felt scared by the actions of a student? Very occasionally, but have I ever been scared by the actions of a supposedly licenced PPL? Oh yes on numerous occasions!

While we do notice most things coming a mile away, FI's aren't clairvoyant and sometimes people do things that you couldn't possibly forsee.

I look pretty calm when I'm in an a/c, but I am primed at all times to do something. I have had too many people do absolutely stupid things with no warning.

No-one could seriously tell you whether what your FI is doing is acceptable as all we hav is your comment that you are "rational". Believe me when I say that some people's idea of rational is a darn sight different to mine!

[Tiger_mate]

Instructing is a skill/art that has to be learnt, much like anything in life. assuming that you are well into your course, the term 'taking over' is actually 'intervention'. A skilled instructor rarely has to intervene, he will firstly have provided an adequate airborne demonstration (after a ground briefing) and by timely use of key words provide adequate prompting without 'getting in your face / on your case'.

Not all students and instructors are automatically compatable, both have strengths and weakness', and a student will have needs that need to be catered for. Students respond to differant instructors, and the instructor is to be the calming influence.

I have had experience of working with 'problem children' in the airborne environment, and in every case, a struggling student was in the position he was in because to some degree, our system had let them down. As it happens, the solution in virtually every case was to confirm that the student knew why he was expected to do certain things certain ways. Often the jigsaw puzzle of a flying course does not make sense until the last piece is inserted.

From what you describe, I would recomend an instructor change. Keep it impersonal, and has been alluded to already, a friendly chat with the CFI to explain why. If you do not enjoy learning, you are wasting your time, and the onus is upon the school to keep you (the customer) satisfied.

[Adam_]

I hope you read the POH better than replys on your post !!! (see above) :


I was agreeing with you! Everyone who has posted so far has told me that the instructor should be more confident and give me more of an opportunity to rectify errors instead of just telling me I'm doing it wrong and taking over.

My overriding feeling though is that (as someone else said) he's only human and is learning the same way I am. At least I get on well with him - it could be a lot worse!

I think I'm going to have to fly with someone else to be authorised for solo (?) so we'll see how that goes :).

Thanks again guys.

[Adam_]

^^ That's the kind of instruction I would benefit from. He sounds like a pretty cool guy :).

[sternone]

He sounds like a pretty cool guy .


Hehe, cool guy but if you ask me one with steel nerves :-) not the kind of instructor you have now, CHANGE FI!!!

[Whirlybird]

Your instructor sounds like he's very new...been there, done that. Yes, he has to learn on someone, but however nice he is, I'd make sure he learns on someone else and not you. Nice he may be, but he doesn't sound that competent. Instructors should be able to appear calm even when they're not; I even managed it the other week when a trial lesson student panicked, let go of the controls, and grabbed me instead...and she was twice my size!!! You need to be relaxed to learn to fly, and you can't be relaxed with an edgy instructor. Change, now!!!!!

[sternone]

Change, now!!!!!

Whirlybird, i wan't to thank you for your previous posts, it was also you togheter with others to made me change schools!! thanks!!

[Fuji Abound]

You need to be relaxed to learn to fly, and you can't be relaxed with an edgy instructor. Change, now!!!!!

Well I am glad I appreciated your humour.

Back to the quote.

Now steady on. It may be time for change, but I think that is a pretty quick conclusion for what we know. We are told the instructor comes over as being nervous. Not a good thing - we would agree.

However we are also told the instructor has a good teaching style and pupil and pilot get on - progress would seem to be fine.

In short it may well be time for a change, but why dont you have one lesson with another instructor first. See how that works for you.

Then make your decision and let us know what you decide.

[englishal]

I feel sorry for the guy (FI) - he is obviously new and is learning to be an FI.

However, it is your £140 per hour, so I think you deserve the best you can get for your money - he is probably using it as a stepping stone to operating the gear and flaps of a Boeing and probably doesn't really want to be there, but has to. Catch 22 for him too.

I've been luckily enough to fly with some really excellent instructors - confident, knowlegable, good at what they do and not phased by much. For my CPL we were stalling at various attitudes and the chap would just sit there and calmly say "don't worry, if we spin we'll just recover".

[The Hat]

What has always amazed me is that to become a teacher you have to study for 3-4 years. Yet to become a flight instructor (which is the same as teaching) all you have to do is a FI course (what is it 15-20hrs + 40 hrs ground school??) and off you go....Maybe you are just not the right person to teach people. How is anyone going to figure this out in such a short period of time. Teaching is a skill that has to be learnt and takes time.

After a few pints in the pub one night my instuctor said that the first 50hrs of instructing was basically a waste of the students money as he was still learning himself. I think that this is probably very true throughout the industry.

[acoulson]

Adam, something in one or two of your posts reminded me of one of my experiences - you mentioned that being new, and obviously respectful, you didn't feel able to question your instructor too closely.
I'd done about 150 hrs P1 in a mostly supportive, UK club, when I decided to go to Florida for some US experience. Long story short, the instructor I was assigned to check me out was positively awful. It really brought home to me how responsible I am in choosing - and vetting - the FI I choose to fly with. So talk to him, find out his experience, his aspirations - and any concerns he might have. No, you're not being nosey, or even overly polite - you're safeguarding yourself.

IMHO,
Andy

[kiwi chick]

Might be a bit late in the piece, but I feel I MAY be slightly qualified to answer this..?

Of course having clearly briefed you on the touch drills for a engine failure if you actually turn off the fuel the engine will stop and it just might not start again! The instructor should do a reasonable job of the FL but he is going to earn his keep.

Fuji Abound - what made you say this?!! This EXACT THING happened to me! :ooh:

And Adam, I was a very very new instructor with hardly any hours under my belt, and I had to make the decision to not be exactly what we are talking about here.

I was very nervous on my next flight (and it was with the same student!!) but I had to make the conscious decision that it was not going to affect the lesson. I had to sit on my hands most of the flight :ooh:, but I succeeded in letting him do the work that he was supposed to do and not take over at the first signs of "imperfection". After all - he's a student - of course he's gonna stuff up.

If I or any other instructors interject at the first sign of trouble, then not only will you not know how to get yourself out of the situation, it's also possible you may not recognise the signs that you are getting INTO trouble.
So whilst I may have sympathy for your instructor, if he showed no signs of improvement, perhaps he's not in the best vocation, and you yourself definitely deserve more bang for your buck.

I hope that the new instructor works better for you, and good luck!! :ok:

[VFE]

Unfortunately the present systems does not encourage career instructors who have long and colourful logbooks so many having surprisingly few hours to their credit.
I have to disagree - this is a much laboured point made often on these pages and it simply is not the case. The majority of schools have (depending on size) more than the one career instructor to weigh up against the coupla young guns. The only exception I can think of would be the London Cabair schools.

There are always times of stress in the cockpit, it's just that some people are better at hiding it than others.
Ain't that the truth! Many of my students ask how I manage to remain so calm and I usually joke that I'm used to the trauma when really I'm just like a duck - calm on the surface but paddling like hell underneath!

As an instructor, I was more relaxed inside with less hours under my belt than I am now - figure that one out! Well I shall explain... it really isn't that simple... you see, the more you fly the more you realise and appreciate what can go wrong and my flying is tens times more cautious now than it was 5 years ago however, I've always remained calm even when the student tries their very best to kill me, like shutting the engine down at 500'... but we all have a few tales to tell and every pilot is learning, even the 15'000 hour ones.

After a few pints in the pub one night my instuctor said that the first 50hrs of instructing was basically a waste of the students money as he was still learning himself.
Very true. To begin with you don't know enough to know how much you don't know. If yer see know I mean? As my experience has increased I can now spot small errors which I know will lead to bigger (perhaps dangerous) errors and my style has developed accordingly. From day one my moto has always been to let the student make a mistake unless it going to endanger our lives, only difference now is that with experience I can spot the indications of a mistake much earlier but let them continue knowing full well that my snooze will be shortly broken.! Sudden scares are not my thing so I've made notes along the way. ;)

An instructor who is forever taking control when not necessary is a nuisance and although I personally did not experience it during training, I know of someone who did and they were very annoyed with it.

But maybe Adam has just been unlucky with a few close shaves?

VFE.

[manfromuncle]

Give him a break, we've all been low-hours FIs sh*tting ourself, and you might be there yourself one day. Try having a quiet chat with him, tell him you think he is on the controls too much and you find it hard to learn etc. Communication is the key. I'm sure he'll take your comments on board and things will run smoother after that. Complaining to his boss will make your FI feel ten times worse.

[Sedbergh]

The two rules of instructing (gliding, but probably also applies to power)

Rule 1 Bloggs (the student) is out to get you.

Rule 2 The more Bloggs learns, the more devious he becomes in applying Rule 1:uhoh:

However the instructor is not supposed to show that he is aware of these rules at any time, even when the roundout has just gone horribly wrong!


Spare a thought for P1.

[Fuji Abound]

The majority of schools have (depending on size) more than the one career instructor to weigh up against the coupla young guns.

I think that is my very point. The ratio of "young guns" to career instructors is high and as your reply suggests a ratio of 1:1 is not unusual.

[gpn01]

When I became a gliding instructor I was given some very good advice - there's two rules that as instructor you need to be aware of:
(1) The student is trying to kill you
(2) The more experienced the student is, the more devious ways they'll find to use Rule (1) on you. :-(
I had a fairly nervous student at the weekend who was about to do his first aerotow takeoff and he commented "errr, I'm quite nervous about this as I've never done it before". I responded "Not as nervous as I am, you're the one who's holding the controls"......Which made him laugh and relax a little bit (which was the idea).
As posted by others in this thread, the instructor needs to be sufficiently calm to instill a sense of quiet confidence....and able to allow you to stretch your experience envelope without stretching theirs. Something I try to do is allow a student to push their boundaries a bit and then offer an indirect prompt, e.g. "Are you comfortable with our position for a circuit?" This then moves on to a more direct prompt "We're quite low and far away from the airfield, I'd suggest we turn back now"", to a more direct "Turn left towards the airfield as we're getting low". Finally, a "I have control, I'm turning is towards the airfield as we're too low to continue a normal circuit". Only very occasionally do I skip straight to the "I have control" stage!
Maybe if your FI is immediately taking control its because they don't have suffcient sortie management/spacial awareness/confidence or whatever to give them a sufficient margin to allow you to make mistakes. That's not ideal if you're paying them lots of money.....The good thing is that it's 'probably' safe as he's not letting you get into a risky position) the bad thing is that he's not using the situation as a learning opportunity (you need to learn how to figure out what you're doing wrong before having the controls taken from you and then being told what was wrong).

[FlyingForFun]

Just to add a few thoughts to this thread:

First of all, as others have said, get at least 1 flight with another instructor, asap, and then decide which you'd rather fly with.

As an instructor, I've seen both sides of this coin. I've been in situations where students have put me in danger. I'm not just talking about inexperienced, nervous students (one particular student who, about 15 hours into the course and on her first flight with me while her regular instructor was on holiday, rotated, then - at around 50' and before trimming - took her hands off the controls to adjust her seatbelt, resulting in a large pitch down). There are also the very good students who surprise you (a student who was above average and close to test springs to mind - at the end of a very intense session of instrument flying, he took his foggles off, saw the runway in front of him, and proceeded to bounce the aircraft in the most horrendous way!)

As a trainee instructor, I was briefed on this thoroughly by my instructors. Putting the aircraft in real danger is one of the few things they can't teach you in practice, so they made sure they taught me all the tricks of the trade to enable me to relax around my students. To this day, my right hand is on my right knee for every single landing, just as I was taught to do when I trained to be an instructor (it looks natural to a student, but is very deliberately in easy reach of the controls).

I do not believe that it has anything to do with the instructor's experience, though. I recently had to hire a PA28 from a flying school which was new to me - although they did know the school I worked for, they new I had a couple of thousand hours, and they new I was a CPL/IR instructor. The checkout should have been (and was, in fact) little more than a formality - but the instructor I flew with (who was a very experienced pilot and instructor) was still visibly nervous enough to make me a little nervous!

I would definitely make sure that your CFI, or the instructor himself, knows the reasons why you are changing instructor. If this instructor is never told the reason why you prefer to fly with someone else, he won't have the opportunity to change. He sounds quite inexperienced, which is the perfect time for him to fine-tune his instructing technique and become a better instructor in the future.

Good luck!

FFF
--------------

[Pilot_in_the_making]

Where I learnt to fly we had a newly qualified instructor who was a bit edgy, and I found it a bit dis-comforting at times. The other instructors were very good. I spoke with the manager and explained my concerns and he made sure I was always placed with one of the other instructors who were vary calm no matter what tactics I used in an attempt to kill him!!! :}

The instructor only ever had to take the controls off of me once. We were doing steep turns and I noticed on the VSI that we were dropping slightly. I became fixated on the VSI and tried to recover by pulling back on the controls. I failed to correct the bank angle (which had gone to far). The instructor calmly said ''I have control'' at which point I looked out the window and realised for the first time that the ground was coming rapidly towards me at a rather strange angle!

I realised at the time that it was bad, but I didn't realise how bad. According to the instructor in the debrief, I reached 45 degrees angle of bank (instead of the 30 I was supposed to be doing) and got to 12 knots under the Vne. Had the instructor not let me take it that far I wouldn't have realised the severity of what I had done. The instructor stepped in just before we went outside the flight envelope.

It was a real wake up call. Had I been on my own on a solo, I would have been a statistic by now. :eek:

He said he liked to let the student go as far he safely could, and see if the student realises and corrects the mistake before he has to take the controls because if you realise how close you came, then you will learn from it and not do it again. He was right.

I know I keep quoting my instructors in all my posts (is it sign of a good instructor that your students remember what you taught them?), but in my last ever lesson my instructor told me:-

''Whether you are a passenger or a student you like to think that the person in charge of the aircraft is in control of the situation. There is no worse distraction for you as a pilot than an aircraft full of passengers that are now panicing because you are. Always appear as calm as possible when carrying passengers, even if things aren't going as you planned.''

[Whirlybird]

Incidentally, about this asking how many hours your instructor has etc...

I'm always being asked, usually by trial lesson students. It's usually after they realise that the woman they assumed was the tea lady is actually going to be flying the helicopter!!! Shock, horror!!!! They'd assumed it would be a man, probably one in a nomex flying suit who looked a bit like James Bond. I just don't look like anyone's preconceived idea of a helicopter pilot. So the questions start, quite casually..."How long have you been flying?" How many hours have you got?" Then they start on the technical stuff, but as soon as I mention anything like dissymetry of lift, they pack it in and assume I'm OK after all. :)

The point I'm making is that if your instructor has been in the job for longer than 5 minutes, he'll have heard every question you can fire at him before, however personal, and he won't mind answering....again.

[foxmoth]

We were doing steep turns
I reached 45 degrees angle of bank (instead of the 30 I was supposed to be doing)

Just to point out that 30 degrees is not a steep turn, it is only when you get beyond 30 that this applies, 30 is a normal level turn.:8

[sternone]

I realised at the time that it was bad, but I didn't realise how bad. According to the instructor in the debrief, I reached 45 degrees angle of bank (instead of the 30 I was supposed to be doing) and got to 12 knots under the Vne. Had the instructor not let me take it that far I wouldn't have realised the severity of what I had done. The instructor stepped in just before we went outside the flight envelope.

In what plane was that ? 30degrees bank is not a steep turn.. no problem for me over here...

[Pilot_in_the_making]

Interesting, I must have got my figures wrong. I know 45 degrees stands out in my mind, maybe this was the angle I was supposed to be using and I went beyond this, I can't remember? I've never been too hot on what the angles of bank are, I was always led to believe that I shouldn't go beyond 30 degrees in normal operations. I remember something about 60 degrees but I can't imagine we went that far. :confused:

Going off topic a bit, but what angle did everyone else use when they learnt? Nowadays I tend to do rate turns unless I need to turn quicker.

I was always taught to turn with reference to the outside horizon and check my altitude/VSI every few seconds to make sure I'm not climbing or descending, hence never quite got to grips with the actual angle markings on the AI. I thought that was taught when you go onto IMC or instrument ratings. From what you guys are telling me, I'm guessing that this technique I have taught me is very wrong? :*

Incidently, most of my lessons on steep turns (apart from the one mentioned) were done by the newly qualified instructor as mentioned at the top of my previous post. Kind of proves the point doesn't it? :rolleyes:

Of course having been taught the wrong technique but being able to achieve the right angle of bank by guessing it against the horizon, maybe the other instructors didn't pick up on it.

This appears to be a hole in my knowledge that I should really know. Further training needed I think. :(

I have an ''unofficial'' flight with an instructor on Saturday, so will ask him to go over it with me en-route. I'd rather look like a prat by asking stupid questions than look like a prat having stacked an aircraft into the ground because I appear not to have picked up one of the basics. Maybe my instructors weren't as good as I thought they were! :sad:

The aircraft was a PA-28 (161) for reference.

[strake]

Although I've a few hours of flying now, I'm not an instructor in light aviation but I am in two ather areas which need a high level of "user" confidence and have a perceived element of risk.
An new Instructor can show you how to fly safely after all, he or she has passed the exams.
They are very well suited to the confident student who is has real aptitude, needs to be kept on the rails, but can probably walk the course with ability.
With 500hrs of instructing and 100+ students under their belt they can start to teach people how to fly.
These are now instructors who can deal with the issues and concerns some students have as they make their way through the system..fear, uncertainty and doubt being high amongst them.
A good club knows how to allocate them to their students. If they don't, or won't, change club. Whatever you do though, don't be unhappy while you are spending your hard earned cash. Deal with it swiftly. Good Luck :ok:

[timzsta]

30 deg AoB - normal level turn.
15 deg AoB - climbing turn.
In exercise 15 we teach steep turns at 45 deg AoB. We also do 60 deg AoB as a demonstration that 45 is not a limit. IE if you accidentally do 50 deg the wings aren't going to fall off.
I am not that experienced as an FI but I tell my students they should enjoy flying with me and I should be comfortable flying with them. If either is not the case there is some problem which we should work to resolve. An experienced FI told me "Never tell a student you are better then they are. You are simply just just more experienced (and not much more in my case)".
The point made about being inexperienced and not knowing how much trouble you can get into in an aircraft is a good one.
One of the arts of instructing I guess is knowing how far you can let the student mess up before you intervene. The student will learn better if they learn from their mistake rather then the FI taking control. But no two situations are the same.
So lets imagine we are teaching climbing. Student is climbing through say 3500ft, nose is to high, speed 10 knots too slow, student attempts to remedy this by reducing power and raising nose. Instructor should calmly tell student to lower the nose to the correct attitude and then re-apply full power keeping the ball centred. If the students does not do this and continues at worst a clean stall with a degree of power applied is what will ensue, with a wing drop. We should recover by 3000ft.
Lets imagine same thing but in circuit in a climbing left hand turn at 700ft with excessive bank angle. This situation is potentially much more dangerous and should be reflected in the manner in which the FI gives the necessary insructions to remedy the situation. They should be spoken in a firm and loud (but not rude) manner to get the attention of the student. Should the student not start to remedy the situation fairly rapidly then the Instructor is going to need to take control to ensure the safety of the aircraft.
So how quickly the FI should take control varies on the situation.
Things that have spooked me:
1. Nose to high with speed to lsow with high power set at low height.
2. Mixture set to idle cut off during downwind checks.
3. Dummy skill test spiral descent recovery. "Look up and recover" I asked. Student applied more power and pushed forward. My response was "wrong way". Controls went further forward and full power applied. My response was "I have control".

Rest assured learning to instruct isn't easy. We all have to start somewhere and that is the problem. It's no good saying inexperienced instructors shouldn't instruct and it is not always easy for a school to find students with good aptitude for inexperienced instructors to learn with.The first time you teach stalling with a student you will be nervous!

[Fuji Abound]

2. Mixture set to idle cut off during downwind checks.

:) :)

Spin, pilot freezes and will not let go .. .. ..

very firm movement of the left arm up and towards the chest, no need to say a word.

[foxmoth]

I will teach steep turns at both 45 and 60 degrees of bank though for PPL you only need to learn 45 degrees, I also teach max rate turns which will normally be over 60 degrees but depends on the aircraft how far you can sustain this. (Spitfire makes 60 degrees look easy:ok:).

[Bob Stinger]

I learnt to fly at Blackpool.
I have had a few instuctors and some are very good , Tony Holt was an excellent instructor and would let you fly to your abilities he was far and away above the rest.
One however who shall remain nameless was very nervous , bloody awfull really I never flew with him untill I was doing my IMC and he would put inputs into the rudder whilst in the air and keep getting hands on all the way down to the ground. Even whilst on the take off roll he would be giving it large with the pedals causing the plane to lurch about all over , I will never fly with him again after I took off from Carlisle 6 up in a Bonanza and just as we rotated he selected full flap , i mushed out on the stall warner for a long way , demanded to know what the hell that was all about and he told me he's just a nervous instructor.

[er340790]

Had four instructors over the years (ASEL, ASES, Tail-draggers and gliders)and found them all to be excellent.

Only time I came close to upsetting one was doing FAA ground work @900' AGL. Had done several dummy circuits over fields - you know, warm afternoon, everything going well, starting to doze...... then on circuit 5 or 6 I pulled up too quickly before applying power - the a/c stalled in short order (amazing how quickly it can happen when you're not practicing it). Despite stall warning buzzer and buffeting I still kept the stick too far back. Instructor literally heaved the column forward and we recovered at about 400' AGL.

A quick rebuke followed by stony silence all the way home followed. On balance, not surprising - I'd come pretty close to killing him!:\