Intensity of runway lighting

[tom775257]

Hi, a quick but of feedback regarding runway lighting.

I find that any more intensity than that required to track centreline etc. to be distracting during the flare. Generally I don’t have any problems at all, however tonight landing at one of the London airfields just as complete darkness was about to fall, as I flared at 20’ I lost all depth perception, all I could see was high brilliance centre line lighting with no peripheral vision. There was no need for the level of lighting… great vis etc. I assume it was still on a level for some level of day light. I landed at 20:13 Z.

Anyway I had to flare and land blind just fly using the VSI, the radio altimeter and seat of the pants… at 20 feet it seemed the safest thing to do rather than G/A. On a tangent I feel I might have gained a world record for the number of times you can say F**K during the flare (floated a bit). Thankfully smooth landing ensued.

As a note in bad vis you have to do similar, but you've prepared for it mentally, not just thrown into limited peripheral vision situation a few secs before touchdown.

Anyhoo just a bit of feedback for a generally great airport.
Cheers.

[TopBunk]

If you don't like the lighting level as for it to be changed up or down as required. You are correct in saying that most frequent changes to the intensity are required around dusk.

Ask ATC and they will readily help out in the UK (beware in India etc as you may end up with the lights being switched off:} altogether).

[BigBoeing]

It can be difficult for controllers to judge the best intensity around dusk, especially as the tower can be located a fair distance from the runway and we can barely make out the runway lights from the tower as they are bi-directional. We have preset settings to use for certain conditions and time of day but obviously these can vary greatly. As mentioned just ask and we'll be more than happy to adjust them for you.

[AWYRCYMRY]

Grab yoke as hard as you can in that situation and as previously mentioned scream F**K as many times as you can and the landing will be fine

haha:}:}:}:}:}:}

[niknak]

Our (new) lighting control panel in the VCR has pre programmed settings in accordance with UK CAA requirements and the CAP168.
We press the appropriate button for the weather conditions and another for one of three visibility parameters and/or cloud base heights, and hey presto! the appropriate level of runway/taxiway and stopbar lighting is displayed around the airport.

Its the way many places work these days, but we can over ride it manually if we wish to do so or are asked, so don't be afraid to ask.

[fireflybob]

This is quite interesting because on a couple of occasions landing at a certain airport in Europe around dusk I have flared a little late and arrived rather more firmly than usual On both occasions what appeared to be the touchdown zone lighting was illuminated and my hallucination is that this affected perception of height above the runway. Perhaps a human factors guy out there might care to comment?

[autothrottle]

The way we at LHR assess wether the lights are too bright is if they appear to be flickering! Twilight and 6km OR better and you get them at 10 % then reduced to 1 % for Night ops. Thats for centreline, Edge and TDZ lighting. If the lighting operator is busy routing aircraft on the reds and greens (ie LHR and LGW) then I suppose it could be possible that the last reduction could have been a little late!

[niknak]

Just a thought, but pilots of different (large commercial) aircraft types often comment that the lights are either too bright, not bright enough or otherwise.

Could it (in some cases) possibly be down to the windscreen type/design?

[autothrottle]

It might purely be case of what's one mans bright is anothers dull!

[MrApproach]

From 25 years of Tower work my short answer is that in good vis you can't please all the people all the time and in bad vis the pilots would rather be blinded for the last 100 feet than risk no contact and a missed approach.

I like the CAP 168 idea but like all the engineers attempts to remove ATC from the loop I bet you use that over-ride quite a lot. I wonder how much it cost to put all that circuitry in when all you need is an ATCO who has been trained properly?

[NiceVectoring]

This will give you better lights within 1-2 secs:
"Dim/increase (approach/centre/edge/tdz/papi) (lights) (one notch)"

Even "Approach lights 30%, touchdownlights 100%, centrelights 10%, edgelights 1% and papi 10%.....pleeeease" would work fine and should give you the desired lights in a few more seconds, or a "say again!?" ;)

From 25 years of Tower work my short answer is that in good vis you can't please all the people all the time and in bad vis the pilots would rather be blinded for the last 100 feet than risk no contact and a missed approach.

I like the CAP 168 idea but like all the engineers attempts to remove ATC from the loop I bet you use that over-ride quite a lot. I wonder how much it cost to put all that circuitry in when all you need is an ATCO who has been trained properly?


Yeah, what the manual says doesn't work unless the weather is clear and it's either in the middle of the day or night. Everything in between usually calls for some experience to give the pilots a good lighting setup.

[Musket90]

Runway lighting intensity can also be affected by dirty lenses so a regular cleaning regime needs to be in place to get rid of the general dirt caused by rubber deposits, jet blast, de-icing etc.

[Gonzo]

I've also had crews complaining that the taxiway lights in their location were too bright...but they were on the minimum setting (10%), it's just that they were new light fittings with new LED bulbs. :}

[Airline Tycoon]

Minimum on the taxiway is 10% with 30% or 100% also available. Before the Code F work at EGLL had taken place the old bulb fittings were quite dull at 10% and 30% was often the norm. But since Code F, the new taxiways have LED fittings which are much brighter at 10%. The problem we have now is that the airfield has a mix of bulbs and LEDs.
It would help considerably if Lighting Operators were allowed to Jump Seat as well as ATCOs so as to observe how the lights look from a pilots perspective.
Gonzo where have you been for the last month?

[Gonzo]

Been hard at work relaxing!

Just exactly how everything has carried on without me is quite the mystery....

[Airline Tycoon]

We only noticed you were missing today!!

[autothrottle]

Agreed Airline Tycoon old friend, but :eek:I believe the CPA fam flights are open to Lighting Operators too.