What's Happening at Airways NZ??

[Petit Pompier]

The word on the grapevine is the boys and girls at Airways NZ have told Auntie Airways where to stick their weak excuse for a contract offer. The retention package was less than others that are being offered around the world. Ashley if you want to be the world leader in ANS, you have to pay world leader prices for your ATCOs.

Combine this with the weekly list of new resignations, and what's going to be left of the world leader in ANS??? All operational staff have been taken out of any office positions they hold and put back on the boards, and retired staff have been invited back to prop up the rosters.
One roster is so short they have cut two shifts per day - I won't want to be flying through that piece of airspace any time soon.

Where to next????

[Mr. Pig]

'Allo 'allo Monsieur le Pompier. It strikes me that you are likely to have details of the contract fracas with Auntie. Care to offer up any relevant tid-bits?

Cochon.

[Petit Pompier]

The jungle drums are a bit faint where I am, so don't have any of the specifics.

The big thing is probably money, and there just isn't enough being offered to stop the steady flow of Controllers leaving. The list grows each week with various desinations - ME, Oz, Canada to name a few.

[Mr. Pig]

Check your PMs;)

[SINGAPURCANAC]

really what happening with airways NZ?
last year there were big vacancy for qualified ATCOs, and now they don't have enough ATCOs. How it is possible? Thousends and thousends qualified ATCOs applied and you weren't able to offer them good salaries or...

[DTLP]

I fully agree. Airways needs to get with the plot. The first thing they should do is stop paying the airlines the annual rebate, pay the government less in dividends and defend the decision to do so based on a desperate need to sort out their backyard. Charges and fees have not increased in a decade, maybe time to increase those also. It only needs to be a 1-2% increase in charges to cover the cost of a substantial increase in Controller salaries.

All compaines retain earnings as opposed to paying big dividends if they see an uncertain future ahead, reinvest the capital back into the business to keep it in a strong position. Airways will be in big trouble with staffing if they do not wake up very soon. Expect more resignations to the gulf and Aussie.

Ashley, you are a smart guy, time to do something to save the company.

[DTLP]

Why is it that anything to do with NZ dies a rapid death on this forum? Does nobody there really care with what is going on??

From the TV3 news website today;

"Air New Zealand has posted a steep increase in its annual profit - up 123 percent on the previous year.

The profit to the end of June was $214 million.

The government, which owns 80 percent of Air New Zealand, is in for a windfall.

The airline company will pay a total $152 million in dividends to the government."

SO what do people think about that? Do you think Air NZ need our $2million we pay them every year as a token 'jesture' (clever I think)? That money can be well spent on ensuring staffing levels are replenished and staff stay with the company, even come back from overseas. But the when UAE get a 20% increase, and Oman is in talks, and likely to follow suit, I'm not convinced.

The government do not need a dividend from Airways this year when Air NZ has paid such an amount. As mentoned before time for Airways to retain earnings to strengthen the company. That means, happy staff, and enough of them. Come on people! I am glad to hear the contract was not ratified. Who is fronting the team with info such as what is posted here, and saying excuse me, wake up Board of Directors.

Is it time to increase airways user charges if the airlines are making so much money? Why are they not paying Airways $2 million this year after such success?

Rip into management, the arguement is too obvious. How can these issues be ignored??

[divingduck]

You are right about NZ issues fizzing out...possibly because there were a number of very qualified guys/gals in the ME that applied for the big "come to NZ, we need you" recruitment campaign, and got told that they were not suitable!!!

Very interesting situation, as I heard that a number of former NZ controllers in Dubai were told no thanks! Shades of the Aussie recruitment fiasco.

Same SHL ( or whatever that testing is called these days) too...just makes you think doesn't it?

[Petit Pompier]

You have hit the nail on the head. If Airways valued their people (you know WWW), then they would be busting a gut to keep them.

Instead they are happy to let very experienced Kiwis head overseas and try and replace them with controllers from the four corners of the earth. The local recruitment policy is such that young Kiwis are discouraged from considering ATC as a career. Airways then has to wonder why they have to investigate their own recruitment, training and retention problems. Hopefully SW's review will put them back on track.

In the meantime the "Sure Select" program, for recruiting, is being sold to all comers (including the ME) - even though it hasn't proven itself at home.

[SayAgainSally]

Yes PP - what you hear is true. The recent contract put out for ratification by NZALPA was thrown out by the troops.

Why? Well good question, and the answer you would get would depend on who you speak too, and what I mean by that, there are a varity of reasons, each one by it's self not a major, but combined ..... and :mad: happens

The following are some of the reasons which jump to mind which may help you, and it is my hope that others will add their bit so as to build the bigger picture, and keep the thread alive.

Airways management (middle and senior) have really lost touch with what is going on within the ATC side of the company. They are so busy being important and working on their egos, that they have forgotten the core business. A good example of this is that the Notam office/flight briefing section in Christchurch is under threat of take over by Air Services Oz, and Ashley did not know about it??? I mean what the :mad:?

A real mistake made by Airways, I think, is the new building which has been erected next to the centre in Christchurch. What I mean by this is, it has allowed the controllers to see other parts of the company, which up until now have been hidden. This means we can now see all the non money generating part of Airways and how big it is. There are people in there for Africa, yet the ATC side - the money side - is getting smaller and smaller, and the building more derelict by the day - the staff room should have been renovated months ago - but still nothing. Not good for morale no matter which way you look at it.

Then there is HR - who have made a right real botch of most things.

Things appear to have been compounded by NZALPA not reading the mood of the troops, and agreeing to something which while in their opinion may have been as good as it gets but it is short by a bit for the man/woman in the chair, and from what I understand, it was thrown out by a country mile.

So where to next?

The message to NZALPA is clear, get back in there and negotiate until you get something the troops will accept, and lets be clear here, this is not all about industral action, it's about negotiation.

Airways need to go back to basics and look after the people that make the money for them, and to get rid of a lot of those that don't. In fact a re-structure is way overdue, and heads really need to roll over a few issues. Also they need to get real with their customers and put their price up, just as any other business would do when their over heads have gone up, and to say Air NZ cannot afford it, after just posting a how many million profit, just does not wash. In fact my power bill has just gone up and this is how the letter went:

"Our electrictiy prices are increasing

How will this affect you?

Dear Mr & Mrs SayAgainSally

We are glad you've chosen to be with Contact Energy. With effect from 1 Sept 2007 our electricty prices in the ........ and surrounding districts will increase to reflect the changing costs of supplying electricty to customers"

So let me see if I can re-word that.

"Our ATC prices are increasing

How will this affect you?

Dear Mr & Mrs Air NZ/Qantas/Pac Blue/etc

We are glad you have chosen to be with Airways NZ. With effect from 1 Sept 2007 our ATC prices in the ....... and surrounding airspace will be increased to reflect the changing cost of supplying ATC to customers"

Geez that was easy - anyone from management want a copy of Contact's letter? Maybe you got one as well?

The real killer however was the SIP (sharing in performance) payment, which was frankly - pathetic, especially after the sale of the Airways buildings which made soooo much money for Airways. If the SIP was anything to go by, then thank the God's the buildings were sold!!! That said, no matter how much the spin, no one would convince me to sell my house and lease it back if I did not have to. Ooooo maybe they did have to sell the buildings - now thats a good one to start :}

In the between times, ATC staff continue to resign, HR continue to bring in non - TMR controllers from overseas and put them on TMR sectors - and then wonder why they are taking such a long time to rate.

In the words of Sir Andrew Lloyd Wbber from his classic show Evita (and please feel free to sing along) "Oh what a circus, oh what a show".

SAS

[SayAgainSally]

Forgot to mention WWW was "wraped up" not so long ago.

I understand that it was agreed by all that attended this meeting (flown in from all part of the country to attend, slap up after match dinner (includes drinks), a nights accommodation, and then flown home again to all parts of the country) that WWW was a awesome (sorry just had to use that word - promise that will be the very last time) success. :eek: LOL

Hey Ashley - know what this contract not going thro' is all about? A reality check buddy - your managers are not telling you the truth about what is going on in your company. The people that make the money for you are tired of being messed around by managers that have no idea how to manage, tired of making rosters work because HR stuffed up again, tired of :mad: salaries, tired of seeing the wast of money that International is, tired of seeing people doing no idea what, but they work for Airways (ie.collect a salary).

"Oh what a circus, oh what a show":D

SAS

[DTLP]

:D:D:D
Superb SAS, outstanding comments, I agree whole heartedly. Airways has become a circus. I haven't been around to see the new building and everyone that resides in it, but I have always been aware of the excess non operational, non money making staff that have continuously been growing in numbers over the years. What would Airways be without ATC? Nothing. Increase fees to reflect the increase in providing the services. It is so simple it's not funny. As I have mentioned that increase would only need to be minor and it would hardly effect the airlines as they will pass the increase on directly to the consumer. Middle management have long been ineffective, and are losing grip quite seriously now, this is having a flow on effect into senior management. The company is a shambles. I eagerly await further news on negotiations, good luck. Lets here some more opinions people :ok:

[27/09]

Wouldn't normally come here but saw the topic as I scrolled down the PPrune home page.

Would never have guessed that the thread was about salary.

As a customer I've also been wondering whats happening at Airways NZ.

From what I have observed and also heard from other pilots there seems to be more and more a lack of understanding, especially from newer controllers, about what happens in the cockpit and that's from the student pilots cockpit right on up to the airline cockpit.

There is severe lack of customer service at times, even to the point of being rude to the customer on some occasions. If there was a choice of provider I think that many pilots would shop elsewhere.

As is so often the case in these situations, perhaps what pilots see of ATC on their side of the fence is a reflection of Airways management to the ATC troops, as I know there a lot of good guys and girls manning the screens and towers.

Just some thoughts to chew on as you guys reflect on your negotiations with management. Maybe your management are as far out of touch with the customer as they appear to be with their troops.

[SayAgainSally]

Fair comment and pretty much on the button in relation to managment and HR.

I don't really want to say this, but as it is in the playing field now, HR have just hired a guy from off shore (and from what I hear, a really nice guy) but who has never worked traffic below FL150, let alone CVFR's, and put him on the Ohakea sector.

Sorry mate, the OJTI's try really hard, but when someone is really more suited to Area, and is given a TMR job without knowing what they are getting into, well you know the rest cause you wear it.

Yup, management have no idea, but man you want to see the ego's.

"Oh what a circus, oh what a show"

SAS

[quadradar]

Totally agree with all SAS posts .... the new Far East hiring is totally unsuitable for the Ohakea (or any other Terminal) Sector ....

One of the biggest of the Management Idiots made the Terminal Offer against advice from Sector Managers I hear !

They are that desperate to get people and to them is it just a numbers game .... no idea what we do or what we need ....

Can't even give us decent toilets yet alone the rest of the run down shack we find ouselves working in ....

Valued Employees - Yeah .... Right !

Ashley - sack all of HR - sack the Managers you know are not performing - start talking to the people who count and on whose reputation the company is really based .... the standards are dropping alarmingly with the numbers and it's a real worry.

[heywa]

Come to the Middle East people:}! We need more bodies and the price war has begun, salaries are going to start ramping up, there is simply no alternative. I would come home if Airways offered minimum 10% per year for the next 5 years. Otherwise forget it. (That is if I pass the tests that DivingDuck pertains to!:8)

[SayAgainSally]

Well said Quad :D & if you want proof Ashley, read what 27/09 has to say. It don't get any clearer than that.

SAS

[TinPusher]

What makes you guys think that Ashley checks this forum? Although if he did no doubt he would get a feel for the real situation rather than relying upon HR's advice that the 10pc loss in experienced staff (due to retirement and people voting with feet) is only a 'blip'. :confused: As Ashely is so into honest and open communication I trust that the sentiments you've posted here have been expressed to him formally.
I understand the two main ALPA negotiators have resigned following the non-ratification, so what now guys? Is there enough support to raise the game to the next level ie industrial action? 2 weeks notice of no recalls would be a good start given the currrent staffing levels as the only way you guys will have any effect on things is to have Airways reduce services.
Your skills and experience are sought after around the globe (and not just the ME) but how do you get this message through to management without leaving? As Heywa points out the bidding war is about to begin in the Sands, but what would Airways need to do to keep you there? Is it just money you're after?
Wishing you all the best as I imagine it's frustrating times for all of you as you :ugh:

[SayAgainSally]

It was 20 years ago to-day that Sgt. Pepper taught the band to play - well thought that was a nice way to end this thread, as it appears it is dead.

So
1) PP, Mr Pig, Singapurcanac, Diving Duck - trust you are slightly more edified,
2 ) DTLP - man you are right brother - talk about a fizzer,
3) Heywa - may see you soon - application in,
4)27/09 and Quad - well said,
5) Tin Pusher - Hello and nice to hear from you again.
From what I understand Ashley does look at this site (and by the amount of hits without contribution - a fair bit I would say)
I also understand that the last time he was in the centre down in CHCH, every time the conversation got on to the negotiations/staffing/etc, he would move to the next sector - non so deaf as those that will not hear - or something like that - was it?
One, I think, of the negotiators have resigned.
I understand that recalls are up.
Industrial action? - it's not all about industrial action - NZALPA get in there and negotiate.
Frustrating time - yes for Airways mainly as a) this is a major tie up of time, expense and resource, b) their plan of a major restructing the rosters has been put on hold (as they try to shuffle chairs on the Titanic), and c) over all, it could cost them more in recalls than the back pay.

Oh well nice while it lasted guys - good to see we are sticking together - enjoy the show (know I do) :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

And so ended the thread "Whats happening at Airways NZ"

SAS

[Fox3snapshot]

What SAS, no encore????!!! ;)

[DTLP]

beep beep beep dooooooooooooooooooooo

[DTLP]

beep beep beep dooooooooooooooooooooooooo

[The Rottweiler]

So sorry to see that you've given up SayAgainSally!

There was so much more that you could have added about dear old Aunty Airways....

I mean we have just finished a major reorganisation, closing down Auckland and Ohakea Centres uprooting all those controllers and moving them down to the "frozen wastelands" of Christchurch. The reason given was that Aunty Airways owned the buildings in Christchurch whereas at the other locations they were leased....... Some poor Ohakea :mad: had not even finished unpacking when some Head Office boffin decided to sell all the Christchurch buildings and lease them back...... I'm sure a number of Head Office Managers will be patting themselves on the back right now and looking forward to the bonuses that selling the buildings will bring!

Since the contract failed to ratify Pacific Blue has announced that it is starting domestic operations in NZ initially with 3 B738 flying between Auckland, Wellington & Christchurch. Today Air Nelson (part of ANZ) announced that it is getting extra Dash 8's to meet growing demand (from 17 up to 23). Yesterday Jetstar confirmed that intends to enter the NZ domestic market soon. So much extra revenue for dear old Aunty Airways! Hopefully someone in NZALPA will wake up soon and try to get us a decent pay rise before we loose yet more controllers!

[TinPusher]

Can anyone enlighten me as to who bought the buildings? What advantage is it to Airways to sell them in the first place apart from tax issues, short term improvement to the balance sheet?
I do take issue with the comments about ALPA having to do better with negotiations. The negotiators past and present I know very well and understand the pressures they face working (unpaid and often criticised) on the MEMBERSHIP's behalf. It p!sses me off reading stuff about 'ALPA needing to wake up' as I have an intimate knowledge of the demands the process places on these guys and their families.... Perhaps it's time you critics stand up and get involved instead of slagging off. As I understand it YOUR rep's did negotiate a deal that they felt was the best they could get for YOU, if it's not acceptable to the membership then it's time to raise the stakes and talk the language that Airways understand ie. threaten the bottom line of the balance sheet as well as the companies reputation as a 'world leader'. But does the membership have the guts to raise the stakes and hit the company with 2 weeks notice of industrial action? If you don't have the stomach for that course of action then you've 2 choices... accept the deal or vote with your feet.
TP

[Track Coastal]

Out of interest, what do 'top increment' enroute controllers get paid in NZCH? What about Terminal Approach Radar?

Hi Tin, hows the sand?

[TinPusher]

Gudday TC
Nice to hear ya buddy! The sand is... well, sandy :) More importantly the water is clear and inviting and the beers cold and fizzy!
How's winterless Q'land treating you? Given your question are you going to look at hopping the Tassy and start supporting the mighty AB's and Crusaders???

[The Rottweiler]

Tin Pusher ........... Thanks for the lecture on negotiating. I also know the negotiators well and have in the past done said job myself. I guess given your location you are slightly further away from the action and as such have not caught up with the dark mood in the frozen wastelands.

As to the builings they were bought by Abacas Property Trust (Sydney based) for $18.5 M. The lease is for an initial 12 years with rights of renewal.....Not sure of what the lease costs are or how long we stay here. I'm sure Aunty Airways will find a clever way of hiding the money.......

[Track Coastal]

Given your question are you going to look at hopping the Tassy and start supporting the mighty AB's and Crusaders???
:D No bluddy way bro..just curious. ANSA on the middle east thread posted the Abu Dhabi income in Kiwi terms...
That leaves 408,000 dh's a year in your hand to buy food, beer and toys with.
That is 34,000 dh's a month or 11,000 AUDs to the tall, tanned, strong amongst us, 4,500 GBPs to the pale, sickly, bad toothed amongst us, 6,600 EURs to the naked, dope smokers amongst us and 13,000 NZDs for the ....well those that have these in their bedroom

...and since the issue in NZ seems to be money, was just wondering how much of not enough is getting peoples hackles up. OK how much did YOU make in your last year in WN? (The American, Canuck, Aussie and pommie pay is found on the net, but the NZALPA site deosn't seem to have this info).

PS am glad the beer is cold (what brand, not Speights?)

[TinPusher]

Rotty,
My comments weren't intended as a lecture and if I came across as patronising then I apologise. I imagine the feeling in the work place is dark and bitter, but how do you improve the offer when the opposition has given all they're going to give? You can 'negotiate' till the cows come home but unless the company is prepared to meet your terms then any negotiated settlement is likely to fall short of your expectations. In the meantime the company has any potential pay increase in their bank and unless they're going to agree to back paying your increase, you lose. In my opinion the only tool you have as a group is to withdraw your goodwill and/or labour.
Hopefully someone in NZALPA will wake up soon and try to get us a decent pay rise before we loose yet more controllers
and from Sally
The message to NZALPA is clear, get back in there and negotiate until you get something the troops will accept, and lets be clear here, this is not all about industral action, it's about negotiation.
It is unfair to blame ALPA and/or the negotiators for the result. During past restructurings with the Aucland and Ohakea moves I heard alot of criticism from those affected that 'ALPA' should have prevented same restructuring and from some quarters, that the union had 'sold out' the members. As if the union had the right or power to prevent this. Instead the best was made of a bad situation, the redundancy agreement (negotiated by ALPA) came into force and those wiling to make the move or head south on secondment (in my opinion) did very well out of it due to the hard work of the ALPA rep's.
OK how much did YOU make in your last year in WN? (The American, Canuck, Aussie and pommie pay is found on the net, but the NZALPA site deosn't seem to have this info).
Not enough is the simple answer TC hence I voted with my feet and left, as have a number of others in recent times. While there's much debate about ME salaries at least it appears that market forces are beginning to come into play here, something which Airways also need to accept (but won't).

[The Rottweiler]

For Mr Track Coastal

The Current Kiwi payrates are as follows....

Enroute $53633 to $77824 Base pay on which you can add around another 28% for penal rates etc. General offers to import controllers are around $75k plus penal rates......

Terminal $61295 to $88942 Base pay plus around 30% for penal time dependant upon which sector you are appointed to.

Most direct entry controllers (foreign hires) are employed on the Enroute sector initally, promotion through to a Terminal sector would take at least 3 years. NZ tax rates are around 33% for the first $60k increasing to 39% with a GST (sales tax) on just about everthing of 12.5%. Hope that helps you!

And for my old friend Tin Pusher.....I guess my gripe is more about the conduct of the negotiations rather than the results..........

[Track Coastal]

You mob need to get +20% straight up and maybe 10%pa for a couple of years. The pay west of the ditch is $81KNZD (Level 1) to $154KNZD (Level 13), which includes compensation for working unsocial shifts (but excludes overtime). The ME thread indicates that pay there can be 50% to 75% more again.

If these are the places you are losing staff to, your management needs to address this pronto with a generous attitude or when the ME staffing/contract stuff gets settled within 6 months - the Emirates flights west bound from NZAA are probably going to have a lot of one way travellers with headsets in luggage.

[slackie]

Conduct of the negotiators?? You might like to PM/email me with details, you should know my email address!

[heywa]

TC

You are right on the button, as I mentioned 10% per annum for the next 5 years. It would still fall well short of what I am earning here, but I would come back home from the M/E. It is as simple as that, I can gaurantee many others would too. I am earning 2 1/2 times what I do in NZ (in the hand). I would be a fool to return, it would only extend my planned retirement date! You are also right in that M/E contracts are ramping up. They will be too good to turn down, and a lot more ATCOs will come and join the party.

NZ is a lifestyle option for internationals, but they'll only stay for 2-3 years, Airways seem to be happy to spend large quantities of cash recruiting internationaly, it does nothing in the long run for the strength of the company by way of retaining or building an experienced workforce. More attention needs to be placed on keeping locals and bringing them home.

The ball is in Airways' court. It is now or never I feel. The M/E is the fatest growing region in the aviation world, the controllers that are needed right now are many, and with near future developments this number will double. Money talks in this part of the world. It is the only way to get people here. So wait for some solid contracts in the coming 12-24 months. This is going to hurt Airways, especially if they sit around and do nothing, goodwill has run out, what is left? It is well overdue.

[TinPusher]

Slackie, Conduct of the negotiators?? Being removed from the process obviously I can't comment but I admit that statement raised my eyebrows... Rotty, it seems you're questioning the integrity of the negotiators:confused:
NZ is a lifestyle option for internationals, but they'll only stay for 2-3 years, Airways seem to be happy to spend large quantities of cash recruiting internationaly, it does nothing in the long run for the strength of the company by way of retaining or building an experienced workforce. More attention needs to be placed on keeping locals and bringing them home.
Not to mention the huge cost in training these people too....
What's become of Sue's project concerning recruitment and training? Is Airways still insisting on charging Kiwi's for the privilage?

[Petit Pompier]

I hear the training review has been completed, but not all the recommendations are going to be implemented. It looks like, once again, HR have been able to put their oar in and water it down - much like what happened to M.A.G.B's report on the Bay Sector. What's the word from the land of the long white cloud???

Slackie - I thought Rotty was commenting on the way the negotiations were conducted, not the conduct of the negotiators. Your boys, as usual, were doing their best, but from the sounds of it they have misread the mood of the masses. Maybe a rottweiler in the team (like 95) would have helpled.

[The Rottweiler]

I wasn't questioning the integrity of the negotiators, although I would have to say they have not been a united group....... I do question their tactics, horsepower and ability to read the mood of the troops. If Slackie is interested in my views suggest a phone call would be better than an exchange of emails................

As to the Training Review......not well received by dear old Aunty Airways! While the review squarely hit the nail on the head pointing out the growing training problems we are experiencing, one gets the feeling that some bod in HR has been sent out the back of the "Death Star" to dig a very deep hole into which the said report can be buried. Aunty still believes that its staffing crisis will be solved by hiring from overseas................. Must be a :mad: big payrise just around the corner!

[TinPusher]

Good to hear Rotty and having re-read your post indeed you didn't question the negotiators integrity...:ok:
although I would have to say they have not been a united group....... I do question their tactics, horsepower and ability to read the mood of the troops.
I know I've been removed from the process and while the war of '95 was a horrible time at least we were united as a group.....
I reiterate that it seems to me the only way you guys are going to be able to force the issue is to threaten the bottom line of the balance sheet and Airways reputation by introducing a bit of 'mongrel' into the process but if the majority of members aren't prepared to follow through then you're on a hiding to nothing.
As to the training review, if it does get buried then that would be a shame... in saying that however it comes as no surprise but maybe that's just the cynical streak in me...:suspect:
All the best
TP

[DTLP]

How many left or are leaving for Australia? Are many talking seriously about coming to the M/E? Is there enough support for industrial action? It sounds like people are going to have to vote again, but for any serious changes in Airways offer to occur, this will have to be with their feet. Hit them where it hurts, on the balance sheet as TP says, and in their reputation. The International business will suffer somewhat when cusotmers (potential or current) discover the problems Airways are having. Not exactly a model business that inspires confidence. This aside I do feel for you all back home :ugh:, the fact Airways as a world leader can not read the signs, and understand the fundamentals of supply and demand is bemusing to say the least. In fact I think it is quite disturbing, I thought the company was in good hands. I wish you luck, keep us posted with developments.

[Mr. Pig]

Rotty - or anyone else with info - what were the results of the Training Review anyway:confused:? Some of us in far-flung locales would be interested to know.

[slackie]

results of Training Review not yet released

[The Rottweiler]

Piggy my old chap.... As Slackie so rightly points out the Training Review has yet to be released and I'm sure most of us will be long underground before it ever sees the light of day...........

However being in the frozen wastelands and close to the action its fair to say that I have talked to the authors and have a reasonable idea of what the reports says......In fact, I understand that I'm mentioned in the report as person suitable to help rearrange certain parts of the training organisation!

The report was not well received by Aunty, such that the authors were sent away to rewrite certain parts...a move they have resisted!:ok:

In general terms it slated our recruitment system, and hence those wonderful HR persons. It slated the Training Centre (the management) pointing out that its product now is far worse than that turned out may years ago. It suggests that charging for initial ATC training is a real DUM idea............

Its not just based on a couple of peoples ideas, but based on a lot of factual data and without having read it I believe the authors have done a dam fine job! Just a shame it now resides 6ft underground.

But on a happier note we are only loosing 6 controllers this week, one remains with Aunty but operating in Tawain, the other five are off to pastures greener:D

[Mr. Pig]

Esteemed Rotty - many thanks for the info. Oh dear me, it does sound a little like Auntie has her knickers in a twist. I'm sorry to hear what you chaps are going through, and I shall be monitoring any developments as closely as I am able.

Pig

[reynoldsno1]

Have heard that the Tech & Support collective has rejected their latest pay offer ... what gives on the ATC side??

[The Rottweiler]

The Techs have also failed to ratify their latest pay offer, they have also rejected a further verbal offer. Mean time NZALPA and Aunty have meet a couple of times and Aunty has gone away to consider their position.....

Aunty is having problems pleading poverty, every day in the newspaper another airline anounces that its putting more tin budgies in the air!

Meanwhile, prices here in the frozen wastelands continue to rise faster than any pay offer!

[DTLP]

When will they finally wake up? :ugh:

[reynoldsno1]

Seems as though Aunty is dragging her feet over negotiations with both parties at the moment .....

[roswell]

So where to from here? Is it back to the drawing board? How much is Airways giving Air NZ and the Government this year? It sounds like revenue will be up with the domestic air war that has begun, involving the more profitable main trunk routes with all airlines utilising higher fee generating jets. And that's with leaving fees at the current level. Why not increase them 1% and sort out the contractual issues? Doesn't seem too hard from where I'm sitting. Even better increase them in line with CPI, that will ensure there is plenty in the pot to pay substantially more.

[27/09]

Seems as though Aunty is dragging her feet over negotiations with both parties at the moment .....

Treats customers in the same manner as well?

Why not increase them 1% and sort out the contractual issues?

From what I've heard recently there are unhappy customers at the current prices with the service that is being provided. The level of service has dropped off with the appearance that procedures have been changed for the sole benefit of Aiways.

[V8supercar]

That's not surprising considering the airspace model they use.:cool:

[TinPusher]

That's not surprising considering the airspace model they use
Care to expand on your comment V8? Should they move along the lines of the Aussy experiment ie. Class G and E, TIBA etc?:confused:

[The Rottweiler]

I think the service issues in NZ are caused by a number of problems that dear old Aunty has no idea how to fix!

Firstly the workforce....the controllers are really starting to loose interest in the job. They have worked hard for the last ten years keeping the ship afloat and have been totally ignored, some recognition in the form of a decent payrise would help!

Secondly, we just don't have enough warm bodies on the seats, rosters get stretched, troops get tired and once again they loose interest.

Thirdly, all the troops we have are talking to tin budgies pretty much full time...therefore we have vitually nobody working on procedures, technology and all that stuff!

I won't mention our training system............

So its simple, its only going to get worse before it gets worse.............

[Orbiter]

I am an ATCO working in Europe I was looking a NZ as a place to work, I was realy keen until I started reading this thread.

Are things really this bad,

would you say stay away???

[DTLP]

Yes, I would. Several contractual, managerial, and training issues need to be sorted before I would bother to return. You'd have to save hard to afford a return trip to Europe once you're there too! :} At present it sounds like you could expect extended duty on a regular basis, a long way to go to end up disappointed, so do not set your work place expectations very high if you decide to take the plunge.

[BurglarsDog]

Currently working in central Europe where the students dont get paid much... but, depending on personal circumstance, it is a a liveable wage... just. Price of beer helps at about A$1.0 a pint though. Thought the studes were hard done by... Then I remembered my Airways experience where the studes pay towards their initial ATC training. In my humble opinion, not paying your "staff" during training does not help to aid recruitment. And when you consider that the students are required to pilot the tower sim for each other, they appear at times to be actually paying for the priveledge to work for Airways Tc by providing a valuable & essential service during their own training! Not good! In many parts of the world, professional trained & standardised & competent employees are paid to do this. How many times has an exercise been complicated by inept piloting I wonder?

Additionally I understand that some Towers do not require a procedural approach rating - yet if a student passes his tower training and then fails the procedural approach element he/she fails completely and departs. Would it not be better to let some go through to said towers, gain some experience, and knowledge, and then do the procedural approach elements of the App course later on? Some may still fail but you would get some bums on seats in the meantime (if of course you need them at these non procedural towers in the first place).

Just my $2 worth

Good luck to all involved in the training system down there.

Regards

DogGone :ok:

[BaldEd]

BurglarsDog:
Your comments show that you are out of touch with the current Tower sim training environment. Things have changed somewhat - it'd probably blow your mind.
By the way 2c down here are worth nothing now. They have gone the way of the moa. Cheers.

[BurglarsDog]

BaldEd.

Probably as its been over 12 months!

So do they employ sim pilots now?

And, as you are obviously closer to the River Avon than me at present, any news of the "report" slating certain elements of the training Centre?

Not looking to stir; but believe that Airways have the potential to be an outstanding training org / employer - some just need to realise this!

Prost DogGone:ok:

[BaldEd]

BD
I noted your belated raising of the value of your comments. :p
Yup, Airways now employ tower sim pilots - TotalControl (new tower sim) demands a higher standard than ATC trainees can provide. :) The old v-belt hurdy gurdy has been put out to pasture - it's all electrons and projectors now since the training was moved out to be next to the centre.
Haven't clapped eyes on the report yet. Should be an interesting read.

[Petit Pompier]

BaldEd

Don't be suprised if you don't get to see the full report.

You might only get to see the Executive Summary, which won't hold all the answers.:ugh:

Are sabbaticals being given to controllers again, or is that just reserved for Regional Management staff???

[SayAgainSally]

All

For your info

1)Training report summary out - as correctly predicted - did not contain much.

2) 30 October 2007

Agreement was reached in principle between Airways and ALPA

2 year contract

Year 1 - 5%, backdated 01.04.07.

Year 2 - 2%, adjusted CPI, full superability, NZ$4,000.00 lum sum payable 01.07.08.

My opinion, I will be surprised if it goes thro' ratification (just from what I am hearing around me)

I understand two from the Bay sector have withdrawn from their training and are returning to the ME, and one off the Area sector resigned last Friday.

Tech,s still to resolve their contract, and have turned down three offers.

Sabbaticals at this point in time apply to all other sectors except ATC.

SAS

[reynoldsno1]

Tech,s still to resolve their contract, and have turned down three offers.

negotiations resume 8/9 Nov apparently, no-one's holding their breath ....

[SayAgainSally]

Maybe it would be better for them if they stalled until the ATC contract was sorted anyway. Just a comment.

SAS

[DTLP]

That offer from Airways is pathetic in my opinion. What exactly was the first deal that didn't ratify? This can't be much better.

[The Rottweiler]

DTLP

The first deal that failed ratification was for a three year term, with that huge retention bonus ($4000 before tax of 39%) being paid at the end of the three years. The "new deal" for which we have to wait for all the details is for only two years...of which one has almost past. That huge retention bonus remains the same, but as its only a two year deal, it gets paid out so much sooner...... The payrise in year one looks to be the same with a small increase over the failed deal for the second year. In round figures its going to be 5% in year one with about 5% in year two.

Given the current problems (yes, we lost another 3 last week and the pay increases in "the Sands" have a lot running for their passports) this new deal will do little to sort out the staffing problems in the frozen wastelands.

For those who are considering comming to the "land of the long white cloud", make sure you do your homework! Dear old Aunty makes NZ sound like a paradise and that controllers salaries more than enough to live like a king!

The last two imports didn't last long, one of them achieved a whole hours worth of OJTI before leaving to go to the Sands...... Reason given was that the cost of living was much higher than expected (as advised by Aunty) and the salary was :mad: useless!

Meanwhile the number of tin budgies flying continue to increase, staff numbers are on a slow decline but we've got the promise of that huge retention bonus............................so the decline may well be about to speed up.

I'll be voting NO, NO, NO :mad: WAY.....again................ and if things don't get better soon will end up voting with my feet one way or another.

[celeritas]

Seems like that HUGE retention bonus is missing a zero!!!

[bluerider777]

A bit OT but have heard a rumour downunder that about 8 NZ recruits have pulled out of the AsA recruiting drive after receiving offers. Rumour has it they didn't like the bond arrangement (who would) and stayed home pending the NZ EBA negotiations. Anyone care to confirm???

Hope the rest of the negotiations go better, doesn't sound very promising so far...

Blue

[reynoldsno1]

Seems like the T&S negotiators may have thrashed out a deal ....

[roswell]

Look forward to hearing the details there, hope they have done well ;)

[SayAgainSally]

Maybe it would be now better for the controllers if they stalled until T & S contract was sorted. Just a comment.

SAS

[roswell]

Well yeah, it could be like 7% pa or more, who knows after they managed to secure the same Superannuation details. This will be worth seeing...

[TinPusher]

Good on the techs if they've a better deal than the ATC's as I'm sure the tech group have been bleeding staff at the same rate:confused:
If thats the case then all the ATC's have to do is bleat about how it's just not fair that they've got more than us and given past experience I'm sure the solution will be for Airways to do all they can to marginalise the Tech's deal to keep the poor ATC's happy.... NOT!:E

[reynoldsno1]

There's no way the techs will get a better deal than ATC - they don't have the numbers, and the company continues to whittle away at the CEA - they want to get rid of it. I've heard the deal is for 3 yrs - about 4.6% + $1000 Yr 1, ACPI + 1% Yrs 2 & 3. (Adjusted CPI is official CPI + .15%, I think).
The deal is meant to take into account the disparity in super contributions....

[reynoldsno1]

I hear that the T&S deal is likely to be accepted .... what gives on the ATC contract?

[SayAgainSally]

Close date for ATC returns 28th (Nov) so I guess we should find out by Friday at the latest as to the out come.

From what I hear it could go either way.

SAS

[SayAgainSally]

CA

What happend to your post?

SAS

[conflict alert]

Didn't make sense. I'm rethinking the wording.

[SayAgainSally]

K

Maybe this might help.

I want a job in Dubai - I have yet to get an offer.

I want to win lotto - I have yet to get the right numbers. (mind you a job in Dubai would be prety much the same thing ;))

What will be, will be. See what Thursday/Friday bring.

SAS

[SayAgainSally]

ATC contract ratified

SAS

[Track Coastal]

Any juicy details?

[lortnocatuo]

Anyone out there? We'd love to hear what happened...

[slackie]

ATC contract ratified

SAS


Seems pretty clear to me?!

[lortnocatuo]

Some of us considering a move to NZ wouldn't mind details of what the final deal consisted of. Thanks for your help anyway - we'll find out somewhere else...

[BigSkye]

Effectively 5% this year and 5%+full superability+$4000K (before tax) retension bonus for next year

[SayAgainSally]

Lortnocatuo

Please be advised that Airway's view is that if you want to come and live/work in NZ, it's all about lifestyle, and not money. If you want money, apply to Serco.

I know this will come across as not very helpfull in relation to your question, however it is the God's honest truth.

To assit you, if you are single, the wages are OK, if you are married with kids, and you want to send them (kids) to a good school, your wife will have to work, and you will have to stick to a tight budget.

Cheers

SAS

[vector801]

Morning all,

I've been reading this thread with great interest over the last few weeks.

I'm currently an ATCO in the UK and will be visiting New Zealand for one month mid-Jan to mid-Feb.

Can anyone tell me if a unit visit would be possible during my time out there and, if so what would be required of me?


Regards, V801

[Tarq57]

vector, check your pm's.

[SayAgainSally]

Yes - visits should be OK (assuming nothing drastic happens between now and your visit)

Bring your Airport ID, ring (tele numbers in NZ white pages under Airways NZ) the Manager/Supervisor of the unit you wish to visit, and arrange a time.

I hope you enjoy your stay in our country (looks like we may have a summer this year) just don't mention the money thing during your visit cause it's all about life style :)

Cheers

SAS

[rogervisual]

Just got a email asking me to apply for Airways under the experienced controller recruitment , I am considering it ,but a bit concerned about the cost of living. What sort of salary range do you need for a descent standard of living with a family. We are not materialistic and love the outdoors and with the UK going down hill it is appealing:rolleyes:

[Spuds McKenzie]

You would be earning too much to starve and not enough to survive...
Seriously: Cost of living is high (especially milk products, electronics, cars),
salaries are low, income tax is high. As an ATCO you won't make ends meet, unless your wife works as well.

[SayAgainSally]

Have they indicated where they are looking at placing you?

If you are looking at a domestic airport, the pay and cost of living is "a bit" different to the radar centre (only one) in Christchurch.

I suggest you ask for more info from Airways as to their intention for you and then post on here and I will do my best to explain.

If they are looking at the Radar Centre, you need to be aware that each sector (eg Auckland, Ohakea, Wellington, etc) gets a different allowance in lieu (AIL) based on your salary, and these differ greatly. eg Auckland 32%, Ohakea 21% - and if the hot goss is correct the Ohakea sector's AIL is about to be cut to 15/16% (or thereabouts) due to a change of their hours of service. So in other words, the take home pay of each sector is different, even tho' the base wage is the same.

As a result of the last wage round, from 1 April next year this AIL will attract superanuation contributions from Airways (the max you can super is 6% of your pay).

Hope this helps

Cheers

SAS

[conflict alert]

Actually Ohakea sector is 24% and is currently looking at 24hrs which will take the AIL up to around 30%!


As an ATCO you won't make ends meet, unless your wife works as well.


That would indicate that most Kiwi's don't make ends meet given that ATCO salaries are in about the top 10% salary group in NZ!!

NZ is as expensive as you make it - if you dine out all the time, buy the dearest cuts of meat and eat like a king, go night clubbing etc - sure you won't have alot of money at the end of it. If you are careful with your money, make you lunch and cook your dinner, get an average rental (house) you should have plenty left over to tiki tour around the place. I think the mentallity is the more you earn the more you spend therefore the more you feel you can't make ends meet. I know many people who live very well and are not even earning half of what I get paid. If you take off your Off Duty days, Annual Leave, Days In Lieu, and Sick Leave - you only work 190 odd days of the year. Of those 190 days you only work a 1/3rd of each day - generally less with early releases. If you CHOOSE to work a recall on an Off Duty day - you get paid well for it. Extra money on public holidays over and above your AIL.......is it really that bad???

[rogervisual]

They are looking to place people at Okahea or Bay sectors ( which are where ? North, south island nearest city etc would help). Although they also said that there may be other terminal sectors available at a later date. They are looking for people with Approach radar/terminal radar experience.

[Track Coastal]

Conflict Alert

Pls check PMs.

[conflict alert]

Track Coastal - will respond to your PM shortly.

Roger Visual - all radar sectors are in Christchurch (south island) except for Oceanic which is located at Auckland (north island)

[Track Coastal]

Thanks CA. :ok:

Can you send me a link to your certified agreement? Or post the link here.

TC

[Spuds McKenzie]

conflict alert,

What can I say...been there done that, therefore I know what I'm talking about.
As an average NZer, if you buy almost everything on credit you may be fine, but it is a constant struggle. Of course as an ATCO you earn considerably above average, but I would suggest that NZ ATCOs are amongst the worst paid in the so called western hemisphere. And getting taxed around 30 per cent on your comparatively low salary is just plain ridiculous.

[conflict alert]

Spud M

What can I say...been there done that, therefore I know what I'm talking about.

Does this mean you are talking from experience that you found it hard to make ends meet. Everyone's financial situation is different and perhapes because you found it hard, I think it's a pretty bold statement to say overall anyone wanting to come to NZ will only cope with the other partner working. Anyway, this is a forum where everyone is entitled to their opinion.


Of course as an ATCO you earn considerably above average, but I would suggest that NZ ATCOs are amongst the worst paid in the so called western hemisphere. And getting taxed around 30 per cent on your comparatively low salary is just plain ridiculous.


Can you give some comparisons then? I know the wages are not fantastic for a brand new controller at a domestic tower, but other than Queenstown or Whenuapai most domestic tower locations are in area's where accomodation are not at city prices and at the end of the day that is the single biggest cost bar a mortgage. As soon as they move up the scale to International Towers/Oceanic/Radar the coin gets much better and the longer you stay the better it gets again.

I have seen the Ozzy pay scales and comparing top of the scale with top of the scale, it looks like you would end up with pretty similar take home pay given the higher tax in Oz.

I seem to recall seeing a post from someone from the FAA sometime ago, while I can't remember the figure I recall thinking they were on a similar level to here. Sure if you convert what each country earns to NZD you will go WOW but then your not living in their economy so you can't compare like that.

I have seen ads in Flight International for UK controllers salary 35-40000pounds (my kiwi keyboard doesn't have a pound symbol!).

I have visited all these places and I have found pricing similar eg. something costs 5 NZD in NZ - similar thing over in the states will cost 5USD etc etc.

So I am interested in your comparisons. Don't use UAE as an example because pay rates have only just changed.

[SayAgainSally]

V801 - as CA has stated the Ohakea and Bay sectors (with all the other Radar sectors) are based in Christchurch.

Not want to sound like I am putting you off, but both those sectors are pretty challenging in terms of their traffic mix, (from gliders to jets and EVERYTHING in between -I jest not) and both have high failure rates (but then that appears to par for the course in Airways right now - hence the reason they are looking for people like you)

I don't know what the Bay sector AIL's but I think it is more than the 24% CA says the Ohakea sector gets, but if I had the choice I would go for Bay, as the Ohakea sector is a civil/mil sector.

If possible, make a trip out to NZ before accepting a job, to see which sector you want to work or make it a condition of employment that you can decide when you get here.

As for getting onto another sector, well with the staffing situation as it stands, plan for 3/4 years to move sectors.

Hope this helps.

CA - from what I hear the Ohakea sector does not have the people to staff a night shift, and that Qantas are thinking againg about their requirements in light of the cost given to them by Airways.

Also Airways is getting so desperate on staffing, I hear that the roster re-view is going to be brutal ie if it's not NEEDED it's gone, and in that light already one manager is already an ex, and is training on Bay.

Tell me what you know.

SAS

[toolowtoofast]

Average house price in Queenstown at the moment (on low turnover) is $614k. West Auckland is mid-late 300's.

[conflict alert]

SAS

I think it is the centre as a whole that is reviewing ALL rosters isn't it?

My understanding is that Qantas will make its decision in Jan08 regarding OH 24hrs.

One thing that must be taken into account when 'streamlining' rosters is that if the AIL becomes to low, effectively it will destroy a sector as no one will want to work on it, causing an even bigger crisis! I believe people have been stuck in Queenstown for years unable to take up their postings elsewhere because of the high cost of living there and low AIL for the domestic unit, which in turn results in NO ONE wanting to go there.

[John Hill]

As indicated, even a half pie reasonable standard of living in NZ is very expensive and it is almost impossible to get decent servants here nowadays.:rolleyes:

[conflict alert]

well thats constructive!!

[SayAgainSally]

Yup -it's my understanding that ALL rosters are going to take a pounding, to claw back the 5% they just handed out, but lets follow things thro'. Lets say all AIL is cut back say 5% - AA sector goes from 32% (?) to 27% - OH goes 24% to 19%, what you going to do? it's all equal, if you follow what I mean. To your point specifically, I think you answerd your own question, like QN do you think the OH boys and girls will be able to move - I think not, so crisis - what crisis? no one is going to move cause no one is going to want to go on the OH sector.

Serco starting to look very good.

SAS

[conflict alert]

Hi SAS


no one is going to move cause no one is going to want to go on the OH sector.


That was exactly my point in my previous post.


I think not, so crisis - what crisis?


My reference to crisis was not just staffing levels. It also refers to things like sector morale. People who have been appointed to other sectors but are unable to be released from the current sector they are working can get a bit disgruntled after a while. Staff with an axe to grind can bring down a whole sector if they come to work unhappy all the time. I can see this being a bit more of an issue now that AIL is fully superable. eg someone appointed to another sector with a higher AIL will start getting a bit toey after a period of time if they havn't or can't be released because it means they are missing out on extra coin. So thats what I was inferring by crisis - someone or a number of staff on one sector who is miserable or unhappy because they can't take up their new post can bring everyone around them down.

Spud Mc.

Have you got any comparisons yet??

[SayAgainSally]

Agree with all.

Talking about sector/unit morale - anyone know what's going on at OH TWR? The goss here is that it's gonna blow.

SAS

[JunkHole61]

I'm contemplating a job with Airways NZ at Ohakea and Bay Sectors. Can anyone direct me to a link that has details about these sectors?
Thanks
KC

[SayAgainSally]

I think you just found the link - meaning I don't know of any other site that will give you info on those sectors.

Maybe CA can help - I think he is from the frozen south.

SAS

[Petit Pompier]

JH61, SAS & CA

The AIL's for the Bay and Ohakea are both about 24%. It depends on which roster they are working on at the moment, but that is the ball park figure I have.
To reduce this percentage significantly there would have to be a drastic reduction in staff in the weekends. As Ohakea already operates a reduced roster in the weekends and Bay has it's "fun" mix of IFR vs VFR, I can't see this happening (unless something has changed in the traffic patterns recently).
If Ohakea were to go to a 24 hour operation, then a figure of around 29% would be accurate. Would 24 hour operation at Ohakea mean a reduction of staff on Area over night???:=

Both sectors have a TMA and Area mix, operating three positions (planner, terminal radar and an area radar - Raglan in Bay's case).
Ohakea (south western side of the North Island) has the provision of approach controll to the main air force base as it's focus (which results in weekdays being considerably busier than weekends), as well as one of the smaller "International" airports (Palmerston North). Although there is a military focus to the sector there is still a large number of civil aircraft that travel in and out of it.

Bay looks after a good part of the central North Island (north of Ohakea and South of Auckland). The western side of the sector is the Area sector (Raglan) which looks after the main trunk traffic (and some regional) travelling between Auckland, Wellington and Christchurch. The eastern side of the sector provides area and approach control to at least five provincial airports (one of which is a small "International" airport). There is a mix of traffic from B733, to small turboprop, to light aircraft (including gliders and meat bombs).

Both sectors provide challenges. My good friend "Rotty" is hiding at the Riveria of the South in the Frozen Wastelands and may be able to provide a better insight to both sectors and the intracies of the AIL system.

PP

[Track Coastal]

Could anyone at OH TWR please PM me...

[JunkHole61]

PP:
Thanks for the details on Ohakea and Bay sectors. I truly appreciate your time and effort.
Do you have any way of knowing what their traffic count is like, and what type of aircraft typically go through? I've never heard of a meat bomb... that doesn't sound very aerodynamic. :}
Also, do you have any insights into ANZ's retirement system, if they have one? I read about the "Superannuation Scheme" and understand it's probably a mutual fund of some sort. I understand that controllers contribute up to 6% of their pay and ANZ matches it up to a 12% limit. Can you point me somewhere to learn more about it?
Thanks in advance, friend!
KC

[Petit Pompier]

JH61
Meat bomb = parachutist.
Why people jump out of perfectly servicely aircraft is beyond me - seen too many die getting it wrong to try it myself.

Sorry I can't help you with the traffic count for the sectors, but have a look on the Airways website there is a page with the movements for individual airports that are manned by Airways. Data for the unmanned airports are not recorded there.
http://www.airways.co.nz/documents/avimove_stats.pdf
Ohakea TMA is responsible for Ohakea and Palmerston North, plus Wanganui, and various small airfields which may have IFR ops.
Bay is responsible for Hamilton, Tauranga, Rotorua, Whakatane, Taupo, Kinleith, plus overflying traffic from Auckland to the southern half of the North Island and South Island.

On both sectors, the aircraft types range from the B733 down to the single engine bug smashers and gliders. There is the occasional B744 & A345 overflying Bay and the B757 that flys the military shuttle that flies into Ohakea 2 or 3 times a week.

You are right about the Superannuation Scheme. Sorry I don't have a link for any info on the Scheme. It hasn't performed very well over the last few years - in fact it lost money for a number of years. Thankfully I have my money out of there and invested elsewhere.

PP

[JunkHole61]

Thanks again, mate. You've been most helpful. Meatbomb=parachutist... Love it!
I gather from your location description that you're somewhere in SE Asia. I work with a feller who worked traffic in Hong Kong a few years back. He has lots of stories.:eek:
See ya later!
KC

[conflict alert]

SAS


Talking about sector/unit morale - anyone know what's going on at OH TWR?


Things appear to be ......ummmm ......strained.

PP


To reduce this percentage significantly there would have to be a drastic reduction in staff in the weekends. As Ohakea already operates a reduced roster in the weekends and Bay has it's "fun" mix of IFR vs VFR, I can't see this happening (unless something has changed in the traffic patterns recently).
If Ohakea were to go to a 24 hour operation, then a figure of around 29% would be accurate. Would 24 hour operation at Ohakea mean a reduction of staff on Area over night???:=


Not necessarily just the weekends but during the week as well. The new Airways/Airforce contract only requires approach services between gentlemens hours meaning OH sector could be cut back to 0600-2000 7 days a week. However it is looking more likely that OH will go 24 hours, which as PP points out will put the AIL up to around 29-30%. 24 rosters are being designed and voted for at present. It would seem the cost of NZ bound aircraft having to nominate Ozzy as alternates is alot more of a cost than paying for 24 hour service and therefore having a choice of an alternate within NZ. There are murmurings of 'other' airlines flying to smaller airports from OZ as well as competition strengthens. However, it could all be talk!!

JH61

SAS is correct - I reside in Christchurch. What in particular would you like to know. There are NO links to individual sectors so info is only what you get on here. Ask away.

[SayAgainSally]

CA

Welcome back - you been away? (meaning thought you would have posted earlier)

So what's the go at OH TWR? I hear things are more than strained :eek:

Story varies as to who's right and who's wrong, but sure sounds like a mess.

When is it likely to be official that OH TMR goes H24 - do you know?

TC - did anyone from OH TWR PM you - just as a point of interest?

SAS

[Track Coastal]

No SAS. I know a couple of ATCs there from the western isles. No contact, should I declare a phase?

[conflict alert]

Welcome back - you been away? (meaning thought you would have posted earlier)


Yep


When is it likely to be official that OH TMR goes H24 - do you know?


A decision will be made in Jan some time I believe, as to whether OH goes H24 or not.


So what's the go at OH TWR? I hear things are more than strained :eek:



There appears to be a few issues to sort through - personalities as well as work related things from what I can gather. Not too comfortable expanding on here.

[roswell]

So will there be more fight at the next contract round?! :}

[toolowtoofast]

Why people jump out of perfectly servicely aircraft is beyond me

There are no perfectly serviceable aircraft.....

[Petit Pompier]

It seems to have gone all quiet over the Xmas break.

Has the training review been released, or has it been locked up never to see the light of day?

The whisper from the land of the long white cloud is that more overseas controllers are being hired due to shortages in the local product. The supply from the College of Knowledge still not meeting demand?

[DTLP]

I guess one of the main problems is the starting package for ab initios. All of the smart kids go to Uni and come out focused on other careers, earning similar if not better money. The quality and quantity of applicants has been on the decline over the past decade.

Anyway, I was told there are quite a number to start on Area this year? How many will actually turn up? How many will stay longer than the training period if they do turn up? What percentage will stay longer than the standard 2-3 year paid holiday? And of course how much did it cost recruiting these people? The long term future needs to be addressed and that involves obtaining quality ab initios and paying salaries that will keep staff from wanting to head abroad for real money as soon as they are eligible to do so. This will occur more and more with the current global growth. Don't rule out hefty contracts in India and China let alone the normal haunts.

I bet there are a good number there waiting for more training spots to crop up in Dubai?

With the number of foreign tourists murdered annually now, almost daily homicides, general violent crime on the rise, unaffordable housing, high tax, complete dependence on imported oil, the lifestyle card is surely looking well worn and easy to pick in Airways' hand...