Court Line

[OUAQUKGF Ops]

The previous post reminds me of an earlier day on the ramp at Luton when in pouring rain our gallant passenger services staff led a long crocodile of passengers to embark up the rear steps to a Dan Air Comet only to disembark them 10 seconds later from the front of the aircraft and proceed in a completely unflustered and orderly manner to another Comet which was parked next door. Thus the first passengers were eventually boarding the right aircraft while the tail-enders were still boarding the wrong aircraft. The Herd Instinct worked very well on that occasion. Did we larf? Not 'alf!

[t211]

Hi I Have not read this thread for a while and today I have been catching up I am saddened to here about Elizabeth overbury, But I do see and talk to Kurt In waitrose In Horley every now and again last time was I think In March, I have many of his Photos In my house of various Aircraft that Dan-Air had. He Is a great Photogapher, I used to also fly with Fred Sheldrick on the HS 748 A true gent.

[OUAQUKGF Ops]

When next you see Kurt in Waitrose please send him all the best from Tom who still remembers having a ride with him in an Auster at Denham years ago. Another Gent was Capt Geoff Cole - what has become of him? I remember him on the Ambassadors and 748s. After leaving Court Line I worked for Air Anglia. We chartered a 748 from Skyways and who should turn up at Norwich but Geoff with one of the Court Line 748s on lease.
I flew with him as a pax on this trip which involved landing in freezing fog at Esjberg - no problem!

[Richard Wynne-Jones]

I believe Courtline may have achieved many firsts in its short but eventful life but few match for hilarity the very hot night in July 1973 when a one off charter from and to Southern Italy (either Naples or Salerno) came very close to the operating limits of the 1-11 500. The Duty Officer that night warned us to check baggage weights carefully and not permit anything over 20Kgs.

Needless to say when the Mamas and the Papas turned up they had all travelled with kitchen sinks (and had clearly acquired a bath whilst in the UK), and as the Duty Officer pointed out the standard weights used for the pax (male and female) could be thrown out of the window at 30,000 ft. They had all spent a lifetime on Pasta and Vino Rosso and many were as broad as they were long. The deafening cacophony that arose in the Terminal building when word got around that 20 kg was the limit and no argument just added to the difficulty of communication between monoglot Brits and monoglot Italians.

The Duty Officer took umbrage at one passenger who he thought had called him a b******d until the tour leader defused the situation by explaining 'Basta' was Italian for 'we've had enough'. So we had 119 'overweight' pax with a lot of baggage (the contents of some was actually left on the terminal floor to reduce weight). What happened next I've dined on for years.

The Night Duty Officer called us in and in hushed tones said 'we're going to board them as normal...and then...we're going to weigh each passenger at the foot of the forward steps and then reboard them through the aft. OPs have sent a guy home to get his bathroom scales. Once on Board Pax Services will not be required.(Sigh of relief)' You could have heard a pin drop.

That night a cluster of Court, Britannia and Monarch Ground Staff in the know watched discreetly (but many with tears in their eyes) as Courtline Flight Operations weighed 119 Italians of assorted shapes and sizes at the foot of the forward steps. Many looked more confused than angry when asked to step onto the scales. As a final idignity they were made to circumnavigate a stewardess under the wing tip on their way back to the aft entrance. The question on everyone's lips was 'What did the Captain say to the Pax?'

[paul birkenshaw]

Good Afternoon,
Just seen the date, details of same will be great when you have the time,
Regards,
Paul Birkenshaw

[Charlie Bangers]

I too had the pleasure of being "invited ballast" on one of these test flights after maintenance. Was in the Autair days in the late 60s, pretty sure it was 5A-DAD and the pilots were Mike Ellis and Len Prudence who hadn't flown it before, but we still enjoyed a triple barrel roll at 20,000 feet! I remember sitting there, pinned to my seat, hoping that the crates of engine oil sitting on the floor in front of me didn't move around too much... The subsequent "touch and goes" back at Luton were something else as well, seem to recall being told afterwards that the performance was somewhat better than a Hawker Hunter!
Oh happy days. It was not at all unusual to tag along on training flights too. This was pretty interesting on the Ambassador and even the 748, when engines were actually shut down and props feathered. All scary stuff, particularly when the weather was a bit iffy. Lots of tales to tell......
Whatever happened to Dave Williams??

[Jaqui Maschera]

t211 when you next see Kurt in Waitrose pls remind him of the reunion, he came to the ones in Brighton but not seen since!

[eghineil]

Hi All,

Just joined this forum, and just had to mention that my very first flight in an aircraft was by Court-Line in April 1973 on a school skiing trip from Luton to Clemont-Ferrand flew out on G-AXMH and returned in G-AYOR, three months later it was a family holiday to Yugoslavia, and G-AXMI was the outward flight and G-AXMF was the return from Pula, I just remember as a 12 year old just what a fantastic airline they were.

Happy Halcyon Day's:D

[travel57]

My first ever flight was in 1968 when it was still Autair, on a Clarksons Holiday from Luton to Genoa, we then flew with Court Line in 1972 Luton to Alicante another Clarksons Holiday then 1973 Bham to Venice and 1974 July Bham to Malaga
The only company I ever wanted to work for was Clarksons, never made it, but did start in the Travel Industry in 74, unfortunatly still in it today, but the fund has gone out of it, and the operators and charter airlines feel they own the insustry, They should look back and see how it should be done.
If any one has any info on the holiday side during those years would love to receive it
Thanks to staff who are left for changing my outlook on life

[TwinAisle]

I never worked for Court Line, but my earliest memories of flying are being taken to Cardiff Airport (then universally called Rhoose) to get on the 1-11 to Alicante for holidays. I always preferred the orange ones, I used to get grumpy, as a five year old :rolleyes: if we had a lilac one or a green one!

Was always a bit fed up that Lego didn't make the right coloured bricks, so all my aircraft had to be in Britannia or BOAC colours :)

Our last flight with Court Line was in 1974 - the flight from CWL to ALC had been cancelled and we were transferred onto AA, the biggest thing I'd ever seen, out of Luton. Happy it was gold!

There was en extremely lovely stewardess who saw me pressed against the glass in LTN, and asked if I wanted to go out and have a look. Sadly I was a little too shy to take her up on the offer.... Happy days!

TA

[xtypeman]

Ah Twinaisle AA worked with her in later life as EI-TBG you could still see traces of the colour scheme on the door frames. Also worked with several of the 1-11's at LGW when with Dan-Air again you could see traces of the colours.

Xtype

[lakerman]

I only did a year with Court Line as a Licensed Engineer but a good fun year. I remember doing a flying Spanner role on the pink G-AAAB L1011 at Bedford. Crews were training and being cleared for 2 engine ferry. One unnamed pilot lost it during the take off roll and managed to get the nose wheels skidding down the runway before he aborted. There was only one way to check the tyres for damage and that was to open #3RH door and extend those fantastic airstairs. They were wide enough for the Queen Mary and were lit up on every step. I joined April 73 and left April 74 and the steps together with baggage loaders had been removed as they were a total waste weight wise. I think they were used for pax at Pula because of lack of gse at Pula.

Remember dead heading back from Trinidad Christmas day 1973, Pete Hogg the skipper and Danny Duffin the FE, cannot remember the FO's name now. After a good meal and a couple of drinks, got my head down for few hours kip, unfortuneatly the L1011 was a very noisy air conditioned aircraft and after a couple of hours I gave up and wandered forward. Spotted Danny chatting to the girls in the Galley, moving further forward noticed the FO fast asleep on the front seat rows, entering the flight deck found Pete totally asleep as well (thank God for autopilots and INS) Nicked back to the galley and had a quick word with Danny who shot forward and did a fire test on the flight deck. Very interesting couple of minutes, but you could not ruffle Pete Hogg, always a gent and a great guy to work with.

Remember the tyre burst incident quite well as it was my last night on nightshift. Helped get the 1-11's ready, I think it was the early hours of a Saturday if I remember correctly. It was the RH nose wheel that blew, parts of which damaged #3 fan and parts of the RH flaps also had some damage.

I remember Fred Kozo, Tony Fielding, Mick Marchant etc, and of course Wally Gillam, how many beds were delivered to his house can anyone remember?

[amdyhou]

Firstly might I say what a great thread! I've joined the forum as I was a passenger, 12 years old, on the aircraft that was flown by Peter Hogg from Canada to Luton following news of the impending collapse. My family and I had been on a package holiday to St. Lucia, and I retain many memories of both the Halcyon Days Hotel and the return flight(s). We'd been put-up in a hotel in Canada whilst the plane was being sorted (fuel-stop according to this thread but we'd had a lot of engine problems I recall). We were eating our dinner when there was a tannoy announcement that we must leave for the airport immediately and that anyone who was not there would be left behind. I also recall an announcement that there was no food onboard... but I think there was plenty of drink.

I'm keen to hear of any other memories from people on this flight. I note that Jaqui is probably best placed to comment and I've PM'd you Jaqui!

[LynxDriver]

@ lakerman G-AAAB? Don't you mean G-BAAA?

[22/04]

If it was pink, he means G-BAAB.

[Chidken Sangwich]

Ah Twinaisle AA worked with her in later life as EI-TBG you could still see traces of the colour scheme on the door frames.

G-BAAA was EI-CNN when with Aer Turas / Scandic.

Photos: Lockheed L-1011-385-1 TriStar 1 Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net (http://www.airliners.net/photo/Air-Scandic-(Aer/Lockheed-L-1011-385-1-TriStar/1270903/&sid=024cc412794ecfa5b0689c640a83f83a)

EI-TBG was ex TWA.

[amdyhou]

See my above post in relation to this one...

Looking through some pics I took at the time, I've found one of several Court Line aircraft, including G-BAAB, outside the Court Line hangar... this would have been would Gatwick or Luton then.

I've also found some pics of a Court Line liveried Islander which flew between St. Lucia and Martinique. it's pink and I took pics of the cockpit (well, I was 12 years old!) which shows it was call-sign VP-LAG if anyone is interested? For you aircraft pilots the pic also shows a warning notice in Dymo tape "No.2 Glide Slope Not Fitted."

At some stage I'll upload the pics - but the hardcopy ones are faded so I need to spend some time getting them from the negatives.

Still keen to hear from Jaqui!

[merv32249213]

As a line chargehand with Brits 66/74 I always knew when a Court Tristar was taxying in, as the resonance of the idling engines would bring all the birds from the area on to the grass patch nearby, for the worms .and I got a free mini massage up my legs via my feet.

[Jaqui Maschera]

The last ever flight was on the pink baby- G-BAAB - Halycon Breeze - RIP

[Jaqui Maschera]

This year's reunion will be on Saturday 6th October @ Harpenden House Hotel. Please start spreading the word.:ok:

20/6/2012 your not spreading it fast enough !!!! :=

[bmbbmb]

Hi
Kingsmill-moore was a part time pilot with AUTAIR in the early days.
He was also a senior surgeon at Luton and Dunstable hospital.
On his retirement he called into Luton Flying Club for a chat about
the good old times at the club.

bmbbmb

[WHBM]

This is available on the web, written at the time of Court Line's inauguration by Peter Murdoch himself, who did the livery design and evetything that went with the image.

Design Journal - VADS: the online resource for visual arts (http://vads.ac.uk/diad/article.php?year=&title=&article=d.255.27)

[TheiC]

Miles Kingsmill-Moore was a student of mine at Blackbushe in the 90s, when he came back to PPL flying in his retirement. A true gentleman, always a sight to behold in his Rolls Royce (or was it a Bentley?), and a source of great entertainment. He regaled me with stories of his flying exploits, squeezed in between his shifts in the hospital. I guess he was only one of many notable characters in Courtline... Different days indeed.

Remembered with fondness... If any of Miles' family are reading this, may I say what a pleasure it was to know him, even slightly.

[paul birkenshaw]

Are any old court line autair persons in contact with david jones or malcolm bugge would be interested to hear:sad:

[Chris Scott]

I never worked for Court Line, but those of you who did may remember "Toby" Davis, whose obituary I happened upon last week:

Lieutenant-Commander Peter ("Toby") Davis - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/9881049/Lieutenant-Commander-Peter-Toby-Davis.html)

[pppdrive]

Paul, I presume the Malcolm Bugge you refer to is the same one who worked for Monarch at Luton. Last I heard of him was in the late 80s when he was in the PR bussiness and was somehow involved with Baldock Town FC. Paul

[paul birkenshaw]

Paul , many thanks for that , yes it is the same Malcolm Bugge .
Regards, Paul

[Jaqui Maschera]

This year is a very special year for us -- 40 years -- since the final curtain went down for Courtline. We are holding a celebration/wake! on Saturday 6th September 2014. at the Aubrey Park Hotel in Redborn. If you were connected with Autair or Courtline please join us. Details from Jaqui, Ding or Crispin.

:D

[CliveCC]

Jacqui,
I was Court Line Passenger Duty Officer on duty in the Terminal the day it all ended, would like to think some of my colleagues are still contactable and would appreciate more information regarding the get together in September.
Regards
Clive Crawley

[Halcyon Days]

Hi Jacqui
Have sent you a pm and hello Clive-remember you well too!!
My pseudonym is no coincidence!

[Lee Baker Street]

Whilst I was a wee bit too young to remember Court Line I did purchase the book From Take-off to Touchdown (having witnessed a Court Line staff re-union at the former spectators building around 1994 period?) which is one of the most interesting airline books I have ever purchased, however I thought I might advise your group that Luton Culture have recently released a book written by Peter Simpkins titled London Luton Airport-75 years Anniversary Book.

There are plenty of pictures covering the 30's til the present day.

[Jaqui Maschera]

Thanks for the info about the book. I will contact them and see what we can do about it.
:ok:

[Jaqui Maschera]

Anyone have a contact address for the Lockheed group that were in Luton with us at the start - Rodney Boon, Bill Garley, Ed Muselli, John Patterson, Charlie Marks to name the most famous!!!

[lynne philpot]

My father Harold Dryhurst and another pilot were killed when their plane crashed near Kimpton road on the roof of Vauxhall motors on 23/12/67. Apparently a plaque was placed some where near the incident.
Does anyone know where it was or is? He was training captain for Autair international and instrument ratings examiner for CAA at Stansted and was killed during a training flight in Beecham's H S 125.
I am happy to pay a fee for the plaque, so if you know anyone who works in Vauxhall's archives?
Some suggested the plaque was placed on or in E block, now demolished.

[Lindylu]

Hello Dave Williams,

I remember you well. I was in passenger services Autair & Courtline and did my cabin crew training in 1968. I left a year before Courtline folded to fly private with McAlpine. I flew with them for 7 years and have lived abroad for many years. I now find myself back in Luton very happily retired.

Do you remember me?

I flew many times with your Father (he was quite scary !!!!)

Best wishes

Lindy Underwood. xx:rolleyes:

[Lindylu]

I think I may have been that "LULU" in question. I vaguely remember being delayed and missing a couple of New Years Eve parties that I had promised to attend in Luton.

best wishes

Lindy (LU)

[OUAQUKGF Ops]

The Lovely Lindy Underwood !

[LTNman]

lynne philpot You could try here Contacts Listing (http://media.vauxhall.co.uk/media/gb/en/vauxhall/contacts_listing.html)

or here Vauxhall Media - United Kingdom - Heritage Centre (http://media.vauxhall.co.uk/media/gb/en/vauxhall/heritage.html) to see if any contacts can put you in touch with the right person.

[rog747]

was rather nice to see a Court 777! - also anyone remember the Courtline call sign please was it Halcyon?

Jetabout - Fantasy takes flight (http://jetabout.webs.com/eur/court.htm)

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Homage-to-Court-Line/100448950071856?fref=nf

[Halcyon Days]

Its a long time ago now but I think we simply used registrations in those days-although a lot of airlines were using companies type call signs.
i.e Golf alpha xray mike golf etc.
It may have changed just before their collapse-but I had left by then?

[22/04]

Almost always registrations as call signs, sometimes preceded by Court Line e.g. "court line golf mike golf". Best one I remember was when the TrStars had US crew, training

"Luton Approach TriStrar Trainer Triple Alpha"

Flight numbers were used for a while in I think 1970- I think because it was easier during some kind of European ATC dispute. Britannia changed at this time too and never reverted to registration callsigns but Court Line did and kept them to the end.

[rog747]

many thanks for the replies

[rog747]

may i ask what was the large black 80 painted near the nose of the aircraft on the forward fuselage please

http://www.al-airliners.be/b-c/court/coutri.jpg

https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8497/8266814403_ff8977f919_z.jpg

Photo Court Line Lockheed L-1011-1 TriStar G-BAAA (http://www.planepictures.net/netshow.php?id=688123)

what was it for and what did it mean

thanks!

[treadigraph]

Rog, I'd guess it was exhibited at the Paris Air Show - all aircraft there used to carry an exhibition number for some reason...

[Level bust]

It was indeed for the Paris Air Show, Ian Allen did a day trip to the airshow full of 400 enthusiasts out of Luton. In them days (1973) Le Bourget was still in use, as De Gaulle either wasn't built.

As it parked in the display area it had to have a show number.

[rog747]

wonderful replies!

thanks guys

[RAFBOAC]

Hello Adam
I have just picked up this thread. I was cabin crew with BOAC/BA the day Courtline closed. My father, Peter Parrott, was Ops Manager by then, having returned from Libya where he actually ended up working for Gadaffi on Dassault Falcons. I answered the phone when he called to give us the news. It was a sad day indeed for him and he cared desperately for all those who became unemployed as a result. He flew for 35 years before his Courtline appointment. It was his last job directly in the Airline industry. He died in 2003.
I am currently trying to assemble his biography. If anyone has any anecdotes or stories about him I would be very grateful as, apart from his log books, I have very little first hand material post 1944!

[Brian Equator]

We used to go on holiday with Clarksons / Court Line every year in the early 70's and I remember the Clarksons brochure had a page about flying with Court Line and it had a picture of one of the pilots, the same one every year, a chap with a beard called Captain Larkman, hoped every year he would be the pilot on one of our holiday flights but he never was. Funny what small details stick in your mind as a child.

[bean]

Captain Arthur Larkman was Operations Manager/Director of Dan-Air and had a beard

[Halcyon Days]

I am sure we didnt have a Captain Larkman-probably confusion with Dan Air by the sound of it?

[Brian Equator]

An assumption on my as Clarkson and Court Line were so closely linked, seemingly misplaced, my apologies, I guess Dan-air would have provided charters for Clarksons as they did for pretty much every travel company, only sorry I never got to fly on one of their Comets.

[hughkm]

My name is Hugh Kingsmill Moore. I am sad to report that my father died after a short illness, surrounded by his three children and his beloved wife Ann, early on Tuesday morning (2/6/15) . He was 85. He retired from a distinguished medical career in 1993 and promptly regained his PPL at Blackbushe.

He did this with the express purpose of proving to his three children that all the flying yarns were not entirely fictional. He flew each of us at least once for a day trip. My trip with my sister Alex to the Isle of White being a wonderful and treasured memory. Not long after these trips he hung up his flying gloves for good. He spoke often and warmly about his days at Autair and Court Line and never lost his love of aviation.

The tale of the perilous trip to Lourdes is deeply entrenched in KM family history, as it should be after about a thousand tellings! Dad will be missed terribly but gave us all a yardstick with which to measure a truly honourable, fulfilled life. RIP dad.

Hugh

ps it was a Bentley (wouldn't have been seen dead in a flashy Rolls)

[TheiC]

Hugh,

Please accept my sincerest condolences. As I said, it was a great pleasure to know your father, even slightly and briefly, and I am sure his loss is very keenly felt. Not many students stick in my memory, and even fewer for the pleasure that their names gave on the booking sheet, in anticipation of an uproarious time in the sky to come. And on that, your father delivered in spades. I'm glad he was able to share his passion with you, it must have been a thrill for him too, and I sense he was adept at finding thrilling things to do.

Sincere best wishes to all your family, and sorry for getting the marque wrong. All I can say in my defence is that I was more looking forward to seeing the driver than the car.

[OUAQUKGF Ops]

Hugh,

My condolences to you and your family on the loss of your Father. I remember him well from the time when I was the Teaboy and Ops Assistant at Autair. He was a well loved and popular character who in those days used to fly for Autair at the week-ends. For my sins, apart from dispensing tea and matches for Maurice Rowan's cigarette " Have you got a light Old Man? " I also produced all the crew rosters which led on several occasions to BALPA and their delightful and respected Rep Captain Geoff Cole threatening industrial action. In those days crews could legally be rostered for 16 Hour Duty Periods!

Typically I see that on Saturday August 20th 1966 your father was rostered as First Officer with Captain Len Prudence (RIP) to fly a scheduled service on an Ambassador from Luton to Blackpool and Glasgow and back.

You mention that Miles had a Bentley. In those days your Dad had a Mini-Cooper - see my earlier post when he took a nap on the hard shoulder of the M1. Maurice Rowan (Ops Director) and Pete Dibley (RIP Chief Pilot) both used to arrive at work driving big old black Bentley Saloons and very stylish they looked parked outside the hangar.

Incidentally is Marice Rowan still alive? He too was a charming man.

Hugh it was a privilege to have known your father. Those were indeed the days!

[hughkm]

Maurice Rowan is indeed alive according to my mother, but his formidable wife Pam died a few years ago. I met Maurice and Pam in their medieval French house in the battlements of Castilnau de Montmiral, nr Albi. We were on a family holiday so all of us were there. Dad and Maurice had a great time talking about the good old days. Very memorable evening!

[OUAQUKGF Ops]

Thanks Hugh,

So pleased to hear that Maurice Rowan is still alive. A great Boss, who never mentioned his Military MBE for bravery which he received after pulling a pilot out of a blazing aircraft whilst serving in R.A.F.

On his retirement from aviation he and Pamela became Antique Dealers initially at Aldbury in Hertfordshire. Pamela became quite an authority on early English porcelain!

Best wishes Tom.

[WHBM]

An assumption on my as Clarkson and Court Line were so closely linked, seemingly misplaced, my apologies, I guess Dan-air would have provided charters for Clarksons as they did for pretty much every travel company, only sorry I never got to fly on one of their Comets.
I believe I am correct here, although others posting are the experts :

Court did the bulk of Clarksons flights from the London area, flying from Luton. They also did flights in some years from Bristol and Cardiff, but in other years these were done by Cambrian instead (ironically, with the One-Eleven 400s sold off by Autair when the Court conversion happened).

Dan-Air ran Comets for Clarksons from other bases, being Gatwick (not as extensive a programme as that from Luton), Manchester, Teesside (not Newcastle) and Glasgow. They did operate for most other travel companies, but I think Clarksons might nevertheless have been Dan-Air's No 1 charterer.

Court probably had a few other minor charterers, but the only other major one I have reference for was Student Travel Service, who did summer charters (not ITs), generally midweek, for students from Luton to various European points not normally associated with UK holiday flights, like Frankfurt or Copenhagen.

It's probably far too many years too late now, but if anyone has a Court internal "timetable", or ops plan, for the fleet from high summer when everything was fully deployed, those of use who follow UK airline history would be keen to preserve it.

[12in95]

Sorry to be so (too) late discovering this interesting thread. I was the co-pilot on the delivery flight of the RAE Beverley to Luton. After I had left Farnborough, my Boss and captain on the delivery, Pete Sedgwick (a proper test pilot) handled the final flight to Hull where it was destined to be the clubhouse for the aero club there. One earlier correspondent thought that while with Courtline it may have made one or more training flight, but I doubt it as getting pilots qualified before registration seems doubtful to me.
My memory is probably wrong, but I believe one good thing that came out of the collapse (at least for future package holiday pax) was either the invention or the strengthening of the ATOL passenger protection scheme.

[LTNman]

Interesting piece of film from 14 minutes 20 seconds about the arrival of Courline's first Tristar when it was delivered to Luton. Anyone recognise anybody?

This is a different film that is on the Luton Nostalgia thread

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jh9hPobkTiA

[Halcyon Days]

I recognise the Captain - Len Prudence-but cant place any other names apart from the Directors John Young and Ed Posey.

[brakedwell]

I am sure Peter Hogg is there.

[ZeBedie]

Those airstairs were amazing.

[The Member]

Peter Dorrington is shown as one of the greeters.

[SpringHeeledJack]

Those airstairs were amazing.

Indeed they were. Did any other L1011 have these inventive and useful addition, or was Court the only customer to specify them when ordering ?



SHJ

[Gumpied]

Hate to correct you but the Airstairs were an absolute nightmare:if they worked properly it all looked very smooth but if not the F/E climbed down a rope ladder from the lower galley complete with long drive tool. If the cargo door was open you had to locate the correct "socket" insert the tool and crank it "n" number of turns, then onto the next and so on for I believe five separate sockets. Passengers off, new passengers on and repeat the process in reverse. The climb back up the rope ladder. I recall doing this at Almeria and finally entered the cabin to cheers and applause from the 400 passengers who had been briefed on the progress by the Captain!! Apart from that they weighed an awful lot and were removed not too long into L1011 operations. As an aside I believe they were designed by the same guy as designed the HP Victor undercarriage and if you've ever watched that sequence you'll understand the Airstairs. Happy days indeed!!

[SpringHeeledJack]

Thanks for the insider knowledge mr gumpied. I suppose like a lot of over-engineered things, it looks great on paper (or film!), but out in the field the more complex, the more issues that can arise. I'm reminded of those Mercedes Benz cabriolet cars with their 30 odd actuators to facilitate the opening and closing of the soft top :) At least with the Court Line system the F/E got a good workout when it started playing up :}



SHJ

[ZeBedie]

@Gumpied yes, you could take one look and just know that they were going to be a reliability nightmare. But I still think they were amazing ;)

[The AvgasDinosaur]

Just as a point of curious, did the Tristars have weight limits leaving Luton?
Be lucky
Dave
The avgasdinosaur

[lotus1]

Remember seeing the pink tristar parked up in a rather sad sight around 1975 at Luton a year after courtline went bust while boarding a Britannia 737 to ibiza also had a relation who lost her job it was a sad state for the uk holiday industry

[WHBM]

Did any other L1011 have these inventive and useful addition, or was Court the only customer to specify them when ordering ?
PSA had them as well, used on Los Angeles-San Francisco shuttles with short turnrounds. Like the Court ones, these aircraft had a limited life before being stored for some time and then sold. But the airstairs went to the lower level only, internal stairs then went up to the main deck. However if you look at a photo, although shorter, the design looks similar.

Photos: Lockheed L-1011-385-1 TriStar 1 Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net (http://www.airliners.net/photo/PSA---Pacific/Lockheed-L-1011-385-1-TriStar/1243480/L/)

There's also a discussion about Tristar airstairs, including an extended photo series about the engineering mock-up of the Court ones, here

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/4954604/

Incidentally, the Ilyushin 86 widebody had a similar arrangement as the PSA ones, with a baggage counter inside at the lower level where you left your bags.

[rog747]

yes WHBM is correct PSA only had the left side smaller forward air stair that went into the lower deck lounge - which was a special order for the 5 a/c PSA ordered - they only took 2 and LTU bought the other 3 airframes.

here you are http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/photos/0/8/4/1243480.jpg

LTU did use the stairs for boarding at some outstations

the Court line pair were the only ones to have the big extending rear cargo hold fitted contraptions but these were removed by the end of the first summer's ops due to weight saving and their unreliability
a great idea in theory with the baggage belt loading system made their a/c almost self sufficient at small airports especially if they had had the PSA type front air-stairs fitted too - sadly in 1973 the Arab-Israeli war started another fuel crisis just as Court started ops with L1011's

the court line film on YouTube shows both in operation

[chevvron]

Sorry to be so (too) late discovering this interesting thread. I was the co-pilot on the delivery flight of the RAE Beverley to Luton. After I had left Farnborough, my Boss and captain on the delivery, Pete Sedgwick (a proper test pilot) handled the final flight to Hull where it was destined to be the clubhouse for the aero club there. One earlier correspondent thought that while with Courtline it may have made one or more training flight, but I doubt it as getting pilots qualified before registration seems doubtful to me.
My memory is probably wrong, but I believe one good thing that came out of the collapse (at least for future package holiday pax) was either the invention or the strengthening of the ATOL passenger protection scheme.

I wasn't at Farnborough for the initial delivery but I was for the flight to Paull.
12in95, did you later do a stint as OC Flying? I was a controller there from '74 to 2008.

[WHBM]

[The airstairs] As an aside I believe they were designed by the same guy as designed the HP Victor undercarriage and if you've ever watched that sequence you'll understand the Airstairs.
Didn't know of this guy, but a number of the key team who worked on the Tristar design in the late 1960s came from the UK manufacturing industry, and their departure for Burbank was noted and commented on as one of the key aspects of the "brain drain" that was sometimes in the news at the time. Both Handley Page and De Havilland were scaling back their design teams at the time. The Autoland on the Tristar is said by those who flew it, and have flown other types since, to have never been beaten for ability and accuracy, not bad for a 40 year old pre-computing design, on a type now completely out of service. The principal designers were taken from the pioneering Trident Autoland development team at Hatfield, where they had taken years to perfect it, and there was little follow-on work for them.

I did read that the Tristar Autoland was certificated for something like 40 knots crosswind, but the test pilots had been up at nearer 60 during the trials, they then just couldn't find a crosswind of that strength when it came to the certificate demonstration.

[12in95]

Hi Chevvron

No, I left for a ground tour on promotion having been a member of Western Sqn.

Regards
12in95

[savannahlady]

another latecomer to this thread.

I knew Dave Boothman well and had met his wife Patsy too. Also remember Harry. I was working in Autair passenger services at the time having dropped out of university! The crash which killed Dave and Harry devastated all of us as we were such a small company in those days. I remember Dave's funeral. I can't quite recall whether Patsy had had the baby (Adam) by then or not.

I went on to have a very shortlived marriage to an Autair flight despatcher. We had a daughter and went to live in Australia and I came back after our marriage broke up. Went back to Luton to work as a trainee controller in ATC at Luton and subsequently married another controller (44 year anniversary coming up!). We went to Hong Kong for 12 years where he worked at Kai Tak and I worked for the Honkers and Shankers having by then obtained an MBA which sent me in a different direction entirely.

I remember many of the people named earlier in this thread from the Autair days - lovely crowd. We saw a few coming through HK from time to time. Many happy memories of our days in aviation over a lot of years - my husband retired 4 years ago after 47 years in Air Traffic!

[lynne philpot]

Savannahlady,
Sorry I have taken so long to say hello, but not much gets posted here now, so I do not check very often.
I see you knew my father, Harold Dryhurst. All I know of my father is that he worked a lot, so I never got to see him very much, but in my later years my husband has done a lot of research on him, and found out more than I ever knew. We now have a very large folder on him, mostly from his exploits during the war.
I would be grateful if you could give me any information on him, little stories, how you knew him, what you thought of him etc.
It looks like you and your hubby have led a very enjoyable life, I hope that continues.
Best Wishes, Lynne.

[rog747]

any reunions upcoming ? the company folded 43 years ago last week - joined in 1972 and i left the outfit 10 days before hand ! (and doubled my salary overnight - not bad for an 18 yo)

[Halcyon Days]

2nd September last I heard? Pm me for email address to ask for more details ?

[rog747]

15 August (just 2 days from now)

on this day in 1974 Court Line Aviation, Clarksons and Horizon Holidays/4S Travel ceased to be

only LIAT Horizon Midlands and OSL holidays plus the coach company survived
Liat (1974) is still going
Horizon Midlands formed Orion Airways (bought by Britannia now TUI) and OSL was bought by Rank (BCAL charter then Calair)

Court Line was my second job since leaving school in aviation joining Court and Horizon/4S in 1972
I left 10 days before the collapse (and doubled my salary overnight with Bland Group working for Gib Air and Cadogan Holidays, not bad for an 18 yo!)

there was no word at that time that I knew of that we were in trouble at Court/Horizon

my first job was Air Spain/Vista Jet who also failed lol

[OUAQUKGF Ops]

Cherry Mason on the left but can anybody identify the other Air Hostess?

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/i/202239373320-0-1/s-l1000.jpg

[canberra97]

Is it my imagination but has there been quite a few posts deleted from this thread as I'm sure that I have read posts since the 13 August 2017 which is the second to last on this thread!

[22/04]

Canberra - are you confusing it with LTN History and Nostalgia?

[GotTheTshirt]

ROG, the problem was they Court Line could have solved the financial problem but was thwarted by the Government. Court Line held some fairly considerable shipping interests including Appledore shipyards, Doxford engines, and Woolsingham Steel amonst them.
These were offered to the Government, who had shown interest. Of course the need for the sale was urgent but of course the government needed to show due diligence !!! They would not even a agree an interim payment. Of Course all this went on to the 11th hour and 59 minutes !!!

[Heathrow Harry]

that shows your age -

these days the idea that a Govt would even think of buying a shipyard, and engine maker and a steel works is remarkably odd........ and to bail out an airline even weirder when you think of it

[rog747]

i wonder if BA were in serious trouble today if HM Govt would seek to save it >?

[GotTheTshirt]

Chevron, The Beverley was purchased to support the L1011 in the event of an engine failure overseas. Of course Europe wasn't too much of a problem with a two engine ferry but the Caribbean would have been a bit of a challenge !! The problem with the Beverley was the ARB certification, even in a Restricted catagory .Despite the fact that these had been flying over our heads for years they were suddenly unsafe !!!
The problem was was the ARB required additional data from the manufacturers who of course could see no return on this expense !!

[WHBM]

i wonder if BA were in serious trouble today if HM Govt would seek to save it >?
Job for the Spanish government, surely. Same for Heathrow Airport.

[fantom]

Anyone know of F/o Ian Rixon? Ex-RAF Phantoms.

[canberra97]

Canberra - are you confusing it with LTN History and Nostalgia?

Yes I apparently am, there was quite a bit of discussion a few weeks ago regarding Court Line on the LTN History and Nostalgia forum and as this thread has recently only become active again over the last few days I assumed that it was missing some posts :-)

[WHBM]

Did we show this before

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oTI-z1RAEU

a question on the thread discussing this is, are those actual Court Line cabin crew dark blue uniforms around the 11 minute mark. Were the uniforms not the same range of colours as the aircraft ?

[GotTheTshirt]

WHBM, The cabin crew on those shots were US crew and some of the cabin service shots were in the full size cabin mockup. The "passengers" were Lockheed employees family who were also "used" on the 400 seat emergency evac! The shots around 4 minutes are the VMCG tests which used a LARGE baulk of timber strapped the the fuse and cooled by water from on board ballast tanks!

[Flightrider]

My word - those airstairs really are something. Difficult to imagine fitting that to an aircraft nowadays, and worth watching the video for that alone. Unbelievable. I knew they'd done it, but the other thing in the video that I'd never seen before was the integral baggage belt loaders. Did those survive in later TriStar operation with other airlines?

[WHBM]

The Soviet Ilyushin 86 widebody, which was somewhat contemporary with the Tristar, was also self handling (in fact even more) where it was wished. In this case there was a lower hold-level entrance, with short airstairs, which led to a lower level baggage counter (and crew seats) where bags were taken from pax who had brought them on board. Pax then climbed stairs to the main seating level. It was thus completely self-sufficient, but outside the Soviet Union was difficult for airport terminals to handle pax going right through to the aircraft carrying hold baggage, so the standard arrangements for that prevailed.

Unfortunately the only decent account of the process I have seen has been ruined by Photobucket withdrawing their links to pictures accompanying a description of this.

[OUAQUKGF Ops]

I could make a joke about diplomats and their families.......

I was a passenger on an Il86 flying from Alma-Ata to Moscow in 1986. After a very bumpy approach the pilot pulled off an absolute greaser of a landing at Moscow and the whole cabin erupted with cheers and clapping.

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/70/2d/dd/702ddd956a65110175219bb76fe4a016.jpg

[rog747]

My word - those airstairs really are something. Difficult to imagine fitting that to an aircraft nowadays, and worth watching the video for that alone. Unbelievable. I knew they'd done it, but the other thing in the video that I'd never seen before was the integral baggage belt loaders. Did those survive in later TriStar operation with other airlines?

baggages in the following years were loaded into and handled by ULD (AVE) containers for most of the time on wide bodies once the equipment was available at airports
bulk loading still occurred now and again if the airport had no ULD facilities
a 767 went into Skiathos once - that was bulk loaded

afaik only Court and LTU took the aft airstair and cargo hold bulk baggage belt options

PSA's 5 a/c had a drop down fwd airstair into the lower deck which had 16/18 saleable and/or lounge seats - only 2 new a/c went to PSA and LTU took the other 3

[WHBM]

I was a passenger on an Il86 flying from Alma-Ata to Moscow in 1986. After a very bumpy approach the pilot pulled off an absolute greaser of a landing at Moscow and the whole cabin erupted with cheers and clapping.
All of that was standard stuff on old Soviet aircraft. Not just the embarrassing applause on every touchdown, but the universal greaser as well. It carried on with Tu154s to recent times. I don't quite know how they do it, but Russians have commented (and my experience is likewise) on the Western-style thumper percentages now that Boeing/Airbus are pretty universal in Russian fleets.

Some other countries do the clapping as well. The Air France A340 destroyed by fire in the Toronto overrun accident apparently had the pax do applause on touchdown, immediately followed by the flight deck command to Brace ...

[OUAQUKGF Ops]

Autair, Court Line old-timers might be interested to know that Keith Spragg who started his airline career with Autair has recently published a Memoir which is titled 'I Have Control'. Includes a couple of chapters on flying the Vikings and Heralds.

[Wander00]

And tomorrow I have to endure yet another Ryanair 737 being thrown at the ground

[OUAQUKGF Ops]

Belatedly reporting the passing of Captain Maurice Rowan MBE (mil) in March 2018 aged 97. One time Operations Director of Autair International Airways. He gave me my big break into civil aviation at the beginning of 1966. Cherished memory of a jump seat ride with him in one of the new HS748s LTN/BLK and return. Maurice was rather shamefully sidelined by the company when it expanded and became Court Line.

[lucalaz]

Dear Adam and Lynne,

I both sent you a private message.

Regards,

Luca

[Doctor Cruces]

One of the TriStars is now sitting in the desert at GAMCO in Abu Dhabi, more or less in pieces. I imagine it was cannibalised for GF. :{
That may well be cn 1024. Regisered EI-CNN it was owned by TBG Airways and operated on ACMI flights under Aer Turas AOC. Went to GAMCO for a C check and found extra work needed doing that TBG couldn't finance.