Air NZ raises govt ire over war charter

[topend3]

Air NZ raises govt ire over war charter


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Aug 15, 2007 3:19 PM
The government is unimpressed Air New Zealand has been involved in flying Australian troops to Kuwait for military duties in Iraq.

Defence Minister Phil Goff believes at least two charter flights were sent and he says it was done without any knowledge of the government.

He says Air New Zealand may have informed the Ministry of Foreign Affairs but that information was never passed on.

Goff says the Ministry of Foreign Affairs should have briefed both their minister and Cabinet as Iraq is a sensitive policy issue and the practice is not appropriate.

The government holds a majority share in the carrier but Goff concedes that under the Companies Act the government would not have been able to direct Air New Zealand in its business.

Goff says he and other ministers will be registering their disapproval with the national carrier. The Green Party are also demanding clear guidelines to stop state agencies cooperating with the war in Iraq.

Air New Zealand, however, says its decision to fly Australian troops to Kuwait was a business one.

Spokesperson Glen Sowry says the two charter flights to Kuwait and the United Arab Emirates were part of an increased focus on charter activity.

He says the new focus has added $18 million to the airlines revenue.

[27/09]

Good onya Phil.:ugh:

Are you going to also censure all those other New Zealand companies and individuals who have/are supplying products and services that are being used in the Iraqi conflict?

Oh, by the way, Jeanette, Sue, Keith and Co, Air NZ isn't a government agency.

[Torres]

If the NZ Government feels that strongly about it, why not introduce a ME oil embargo?

That would raise the price of used, low kilometer Malvern Stars and Clydesdales!! :E

[Swamp Donkey]

NZ PC bullsh*t coming to the fore again!

Any of the folk involved in the actual flights like to some share some info as to the flights themselves?

I wish Hone had gone walkabout a little earlier (and got on the one of these flights instead) - perhaps then he would met some real Aussies......

Don't you Aussie fellas have those flash C17's for such occassions?

[Split Flap]

I wonder if the govt wants rakon to stop exporting all those nice expensive cruise missle parts to the yanks as well? Lets face it, war is good for business, and if your not on the money your not in the money. More PCBS.
Doubt that the aircraft were in a war zone, pretty sure the insurance company would have a thing or two to say about that....

[4Foxtrot]

The fact that the RAAF did not have sufficient suitable/serviceable aircraft to meet the tasking, and that a civilian charter was used in its place, is not news, it's standard operating procedure.

Air NZ aircraft are unlikely to be fitted with defensive aid suites such as chaff, flare and ECM and the pilots were unlikely to be trained in non-precision tactical approaches at night using NVGs. No, no, no - they were flying into Kuwait. Kuwait! Not bl**dy Balad or Basrah. The last time I was in Kuwait (Ali Al Salem included), not only was it safer, but the duty free was better and there were fewer insurgents than you'll find at Auckland International.

So any suggestion that the sight of a koru proudly emblazoned onto the side of an aircraft will incite a wave of truck bombings down Lambton Quay, is unfounded.

That plonker Goff can take relief in the fact that in other western democracies, airlines do not consult their governments every time there is a military charter to the Middle East. In fact, it's likely to be the other way around as the passengers and crew on BA 149 found out. <thread creep>

Could Air NZ have kept the Govt better informed? I suppose, but only as a courtesy and not for consultation as there are better people to ask about flying into Kuwait than the NZ Govt - like the Australian Govt, who actually have the stones to do something.




Rant mode off - for now.

[reynoldsno1]

Defence Minister Phil Goff believes at least two charter flights were sent and he says it was done without any knowledge of the government.

He says Air New Zealand may have informed the Ministry of Foreign Affairs but that information was never passed on.

Goff says the Ministry of Foreign Affairs should have briefed both their minister and Cabinet as Iraq is a sensitive policy issue and the practice is not appropriate.

So, if ANZ did inform the MFA, the government knew about it - and the government has an internal communication problem that has nothing to do with ANZ. What a bunch of clowns (the guvmint, not ANZ).....

[Te_Kahu]

The reason why Phil Goff and Helen Clark are so miffed by this is that it completely pulls the rug out from under their attack on John Key.

They had finally found, what appeared to be, a descent chink in his armour. An apparant vacillation on his position on Iraq and some inconsistent and contradictory comments in the media.

The Government was lining up to hammer him on this again this week.

The old adage holds true: A week is a long time in politics.

TK

[Cypher]

If they really were worried about terrorist attacks because of this charter.. they would have shut the :mad: up!!!!
Now every insurgent with a internet connection and Maori TV between here and Timbuktu knows now that ANZ were flying troops to Iraq and not 120 tonnes of soft pink fluffy bunnies!
Good on ya Helen and Goof......:rolleyes:

[Whitney]

This particular ongoing charter work - was it originally put out to tender or was it organised through the defence travel contractor?

Maybe the contractor company x-hired another company's aircraft to fulfil the contractual needs.

I know that a ANZ 777 was used on some domestic defence charter work back around easter time to move the odd soldier or three backwards and forwards from the south to the north.

Really, the government should be just bloody grateful they have some people to send to the god forsaken joint in the first place!

[mattyj]

Is that Phil Goff, the minister of Defence, who is also the Minister of Disarmament?
How ridiculous! The managment of this country is an international joke!

[RedTBar]

If this is true I'd like to know why the Australian Government did not use it's own airforce or Australian carriers to do the job?

the two charter flights to Kuwait and the United Arab Emirates were part of an increased focus on charter activity.

He says the new focus has added $18 million to the airlines revenue.

When was this supposed to happen?

[Swamp Donkey]

Please remember folks this is the government that thinks because we "stay out of conflict" that we will not be targeted in future acts of terrorism.

Yet last week Helen was happy to bask in the glory of our latest VC winner!

[Swamp Donkey]

and you Aussies out there.......if you laugh at the PCBS that we have in NZ.........vote Kevin Rudd and you will end up with exactly the same thing!

[Going Boeing]

If this is true I'd like to know why the Australian Government did not use it's own airforce or Australian carriers to do the job?
The RAAF transport fleet is fully utilised supplying the various operations that the ADF is currently committed to. Therefore movement of personnel to/from these areas has be done by charter (as done by many other countries). Qantas is currently short of capacity due to the delay of the A380 and cannot spare aircraft for charter operations. DJ & JQ do not have aircraft suitable for long range defence charters. I'd rather have the charter done by our rugby playing ANZAC neighbours than anyone else.
and you Aussies out there.......if you laugh at the PCBS that we have in NZ.........vote Kevin Rudd and you will end up with exactly the same thing!
Agreed

[chimbu warrior]

This begs the question, had the ADF simply bought 200 seats on an ANZ flight to an existing ANZ port (presumably to connect with another carrier that flies to Kuwait), would the NZ pollies have been "outraged"? I hardly think so.

As for Kuwait being a war zone, well for a short period back in 1990-91 yes, but not now. Guess news travels slowly to NZ!

[Keg]

If this is true I'd like to know why the Australian Government did not use it's own airforce or Australian carriers to do the job?

Personally I'd prefer the RAAF to focus their skills on war fighting (and training the youth of Australia! ;) :E ) then on operating an airline to transport troops between one very secure aerodrome and another. One they do very well and airlines have no ability to do, the other they probably don't do so well and the airlines do very well.

As to why aussie airlines weren't used, no one except QF has the capability and I suspect that with capacity so tight at the moment that we've got nothing spare for this type of work. QF is normally very keen to get onto an ADF contract such as this given that they're a guaranteed gold mine!

[Moniker]

this from a news site

Australian troops won't fly Air New Zealand

AAP

16 August 2007

AUSTRALIAN troops will no longer fly Air New Zealand, after a row in Wellington over a "cock-up" which led to the national carrier flying soldiers to the Middle East.

The New Zealand Government, which opposes the war in Iraq, was furious when it learned the airline had carried Australian troops to the Middle East, en route to Iraq.

"In light of this controversy, the Australian Defence Force (ADF) will no longer use Air New Zealand in any circumstances," Australian Foreign Minister Alexander Downer said today.

It was revealed yesterday that up to 600 Australian troops were taken to Kuwait by Air New Zealand in June, from where some went to Iraq and Afghanistan.

Brisbane-based Strategic Aviation was the company contracted by the Australian Defence Force (ADF) to take the troops to Kuwait, but because one of its planes was in maintenance it paid Air New Zealand to carry the soldiers.

New Zealand Prime Minister Helen Clark and other ministers were furious that they had not been told in advance of the flights.

Defence Minister Phil Goff said the airline's actions were "contrary to the wishes and the views" of the Government, which owns 76 per cent of the carrier.

Top NZ officials today took the rap for the foreign policy error.

"This is cock-up by officials, not a conspiracy by ministers," Deputy Prime Minister Michael Cullen said today.

Mr Downer said earlier that he had received no complaints from New Zealand about the flight.

He also pointed out that the Kiwis had themselves sent troops to Iraq after the fall of Baghdad.

"This is an arrangement we have where we charter aircraft but if the New Zealand Government doesn't want us to charter Air New Zealand aircraft, that's fine," Mr Downer said.

"We'll find plenty of aircraft in the world to charter. I'm quite relaxed about it."

The ADF was not able to say how much business it did with the NZ carrier.

Executive director of Strategic Aviation Michael James said the New Zealand Government's reaction was out of all proportion to the situation.

He said the planes only flew troops from Darwin to Kuwait, and under no circumstances did they fly into war zones.

"At the end of the day, it was a commercial decision we used Air New Zealand. There were no other aircraft around that could do the job in the region," Mr James said.

He said most of the people aboard the flights went to Afghanistan, where New Zealand has sent peacekeeping troops.

"It doesn't go to military airports and it was simply two flights, doing what we do every day. At the end of the day Air New Zealand makes money," Mr James said.

Air New Zealand said New Zealand's Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade was aware of the flights before they took place and raised no objections.



I wonder how a lawyer may see this - government interference in a commercial transaction

[komac2]

I wonder how a lawyer may see this - government interference in a commercial transaction

The Govt is the Majority ShareHolder - it Has the controlling interest in the company albeit as an SOE and although they are not Involved in the day to day operations or management of the company. Like any majority shareholder they pretty much lay down the rules albeit not directly.

[topend3]

If this is true I'd like to know why the Australian Government did not use it's own airforce or Australian carriers to do the job?

cos AirNZ is a better airline than Qantas perhaps????

[Nose wheel first]

I can't wait for the next election when (hopefully) Helen Clark and HIS merry men get booted out on their ear!!!!!

This is just another example of the congenital imbecility which is rife in the NZ government. :ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

Good on Air NZ for doing the charters. As others have pointed out... it's a commercial decision and shouldn't be meddled with by megalomaniacal politicians.

If I recall correctly, the charter flights were briefly outlined in this months edition of Australian Aviation. How is it that us mere peasants can read about them in a magazine and yet the government can plead total ignorance?????:yuk::yuk::yuk:

If NZ were invaded tomorrow who would Helen call??? I can bet our antipodian cousins would be hearing from her quick smart..... "Please come and help us uncle John....... we got rid of our fighter wing and now all we can throw at them is 4 Hercs (assuming that they are all operational at the same time) and a couple of P3's". Hmmmmmmm I wonder if she would be happy for AIR NZ to transport troops then???

End of tirade!!!:*

[stillalbatross]

having diluted the shares by 900% and screwing over every poor shareholder when the govt poured gazillions into it instead of allowing it go t it's up and having Qantas pick over the carcase. I think any money that they can make anywhere doing anything can only be good. It's not like they are going to be around forever.

[B A Lert]

Keg wrote

As to why aussie airlines weren't used, no one except QF has the capability and I suspect that with capacity so tight at the moment that we've got nothing spare for this type of work. QF is normally very keen to get onto an ADF contract such as this given that they're a guaranteed gold mine!

ADF do not directly charter aircraft - they use a broker. So, it's not a foregone conclusion that Qantas could not do what was required - they may not have been asked for all we know. As Qantas have found the capacity for some Jetstar charters and scenic flights to so-called exotic destinations, I wouldn't be so sure that they couldn't fiddle the fleet to fit in a couple of ADF charters. Also, maybe the Qantas spooks were not too keen on sending assets to the Middle East.

I realise this is a bit of thread drift but did you realise that the long-term charter involves a number of parties between the aircraft owner/operator and the ADF? The A330 in question used to be on long term charter to the UK MoD. When that contract expired, a London charter company (easy to find on the WWW) then looked to Australia. Two more companies (the ADF broker and another outfit) also supp from the gravy train. That being so, one can only speculate just how much more is the ADF paying fort the A330 than it would if it went directly to market. Surely with the resources of the ADF and the entire Commonwealth Public Service, there must be some expertise to go it alone and so not involve intermediaries?

[Moniker]

ADF do not directly charter aircraft - they use a broker - but this broker, could it be the same successful contractor company for which all defence travel falls under the ambit of?

and ..

it's hardly a couple of charters - reality is, it's twice / week until whenever from way back when all this fun started.

[B A Lert]

If my understanding that Qantas holds the contract for Defence Dept travel is correct, the answer is 'no'.