British Airways - Crew Discussions II [Archive]

brightonflyer

14th Sep 2007, 19:45

Hi Blue Sky Bird - I currently work for BA at Gatwick and commute from Brighton. Easy to do and never had a problem yet on public transport - only once where I missed my last train home and the last National Express coach but went and stayed in the YOTEL at LGW in the South terminal cost me £25 and had a room with a shower etc!!! I use a mix of the coaches and trains but most people from Brighton use the National Express! Think National Express costs around £28 for 10 journeys (Not quite sure of exact costings off the top of my head ) but I would say that would last me a month andt hen probably a few train journeys on top costing about £30 maybe!! Got to be chaeper than running a car and you can chill out on he coach after a longhaul flight and not worry about driving. Hope this helps!

SuperBoy

15th Sep 2007, 21:00

Ams- Lhr,

As far as I understand the rostering on EF it is based on the group you are in ie. A, B or C. This rotates monthly so as Group A gets top priority month1, group B gets top priority month2 and group C gets top priority month3. Thus seniority does not affect bidding in that sense.

However there is seniority within the groups. A fair system I think. The good news is as a new starter you will be with in the top 33.3% of the fleet every 3 months and with that type of seniority carmen will aim (might miss drastically :)) to give you a bidding satisfaction of between 60%-80%. (A word of advice, you can't go wrong with the swiss or the german routes ;))

Rach-G

15th Sep 2007, 21:18

Bidding at LHR Eurofleet is not done on seniority but annual leave is, I think superboy might be confused with Annual leave as you are given a leave allocation letter ie A, B or C and each year this alternates so A being top one year then B will be top the year after etc but Bidding at Singlefleet Gatwick is done on seniority within Rank.

SuperBoy

16th Sep 2007, 09:12

Rach-G,

I'm not confused with the leave groups.

overstress

16th Sep 2007, 19:25

Just to say that many of my cabin crew colleagues in BA tell me that they only have their first names on their badges to prevent them from unwanted attention through media such as this.

If a member of cabin crew wants to further their contact with a passenger, they are quite capable of giving out their own phone no at the time...

TheFlyingFrenchman

16th Sep 2007, 21:36

I understand it was in reply to someone asking how to contact a specific cabin crew member on a BA flight.

overstress

17th Sep 2007, 05:17

The Frenchman is correct, AMS-LHR, as a relative forum veteran I tend to read an entire thread before posting... so as not to make an a*** of myself :}
As you are a newcomer, I notice you are a relatively prolific poster, have a look at post 11 on page 1...:cool:

Rach-G

17th Sep 2007, 12:18

Superboy, didn't mean to offend you, ok you haven't confused Annual leave with Bidding, But Bidding at Eurofleet Heathrow is NOT done on Seniority Fact.

SuperBoy

17th Sep 2007, 18:25

Rach-G,

I'm not offended but thanks for your concern. It does work on a fairshare principal. However carmen does not allocate trips at random.

I am quite happy to agree to disagree on this one.

blueskybird

17th Sep 2007, 19:39

Many thanks for the info brightonflyer and theflyingfrenchman :ok::ok::ok:

i reckon what i'll do is, when im down in gatwick doing my training i will do as much research as possible as to what times trains/busses run etc inconjunction with what times our flights departure and arrive.

My little motor looks like she's gonna be on her way out..he he :} Public transport here I come.

To all of those CC at LGWSF please let us know how you're all getting on, routes/trips you enjoyed etc etc.

CANT WAIT TO START WORKING FOR BA !!!!! :O:O:O:O:O

kikko

18th Sep 2007, 09:22

Hi there!

I understand you have got a difference of opinions about the way Carmen works, NOT regarding the annual leave but on the fact that it doesn't work on seniority when it comes to bidding trips etc.

Could any expert let us know how it work?:confused:

Thanks:)

SuperBoy

18th Sep 2007, 16:58

But Kikko,

Rach-G is an expert and so am I. :)

kikko

18th Sep 2007, 18:21

OF course!

did not mean to take away from you both the expert satus:O....

Just to see if anyother expert could clarify things a bit..;)

EGHI

18th Sep 2007, 21:32

Noooooo AMS - You must keep posting as I find it all quite fascinating!!

It's been most entertaining to read your posts from before you started, right through your course until now where you're nearly online.

And, always remember, it would have taken less time to simply answer the question, than it obviously did to provide you with a mini lecture on blog etiquette.

Happy postings and (soon) happy landings!!

:)

TightSlot

19th Sep 2007, 06:24

This isn't a blog - therefore it wasn't "a mini lecture on blog etiquette". A suggestion was made that AMS-LHR (and many others) just slow up a little to check back and think before posting. This is excellent advice from TheFlyingFrenchman, for everybody, and I can say with absolute certainty, that it will be almost completely ignored.

EGHI

19th Sep 2007, 14:27

Thank you so much for the clarification.

:rolleyes:

TightSlot

19th Sep 2007, 14:30

You are most welcome

VS-LHRCSA

19th Sep 2007, 18:13

"on-the-third-of-october-your-report-time-is-oh-eight-twenty-five-local-for-a-three-day-two-sector-trip-on-the-B-A-two-zero-two-five-to-hooouston....."

You'll understand when you call for your roster.

EGHI

19th Sep 2007, 19:47

How fantastic!!!

Is that what happens then? You phone and listen to a computer voice giving you your roster???? :ooh: AMS - you must let us know after you've phoned in what it was like!!!

Much better than the pencil written rosters I used to have years ago!!

Can't wait to start in November now - it's almost worth joining just to listen to the computerised roster!! Perhaps I could phone and listen to it again when I'm bored and lonely on a nightstop!!!

:)

boyo25

19th Sep 2007, 21:14

Hey AMS

Don't wait up too late....

I'm pretty sure from (my buddies on EFLHR) that shorthaul rosters are published tomorrow night.

Hope it's a good one for you!

lulutinkerbell

20th Sep 2007, 09:07

This is what you are MOST likely to hear for your supernumary when you phone in for your first flight.......

"on-the-third-of-october-your-report-time-is-twelve-oh-five-local-for-a-two-sector-one-day-trip-on-the-B-A-eight-seven-four-to-Moscow-...."

:D

Enjoy!
L x

VS-LHRCSA

20th Sep 2007, 09:19

Sorry, AMS, I thought you were at LGW (my fault for not reading all your posts).

It would be pretty mean to give you the Moscow for your supernumery. Mine was to DUS followed by a FCO standover. What are the odds. I don't think they even do standovers anymore (I could be wrong though). Have fun on EF. It's a great fleet and it's nice to be able to control your life.

737319320321

20th Sep 2007, 10:30

LHR Rosters come out 10 days before the end of the month ( so either the 30th or the 31st) Unfortunatly everyone on my courses first flights were to Moscow, Istanbul, and Athens,there and back! But theyre ok, plenty of time to look around. It was great! Good luck AMS for your frst flight.

lovethesky

20th Sep 2007, 20:11

im waiting for my roster, ams u should join crewforum.co.uk there is always a roster party there!!!!

accepted to go to longahul permantly todasy so this will be one of my last shorthaul rosters

VS-LHRCSA

21st Sep 2007, 03:06

Sounds like my dream roster. Hopefully, you'll be able to start bigging for overnights soon. Have fun.

jetgirl_99

22nd Sep 2007, 12:04

I've only been on the 767 twice in 2 months! Most of my rosters have been made up of Airbus flights, I'm not on the 76 at all next month and only on the 75 twice.
Where are you going on the 767? I take it you've got IST and ATH on your roster too?

vodkaholic

22nd Sep 2007, 12:15

wow that's really good you can phone up to get your rosta. although i think i would find this a pain. at my company crewing email the rosters to us as soon as they are done. do you find phoning up and writing everything down a little long winded?

TheFlyingFrenchman

22nd Sep 2007, 19:27

Lucky you AMS, enjoy your first flight!!!!
Hopefully I too will be where you are in a few weeks :ok:

btw, what is a supernumerary flight? :}

VS-LHRCSA

22nd Sep 2007, 21:13

AMS, you should be able to print out your "planned allowances" which itemise everything you should earn, unless there are changes - and there WILL BE. Rosters on short haul can be very fluid and you have to go with the flow. One 2-3 day trip off standby or available can knock you off other trips, which can be quite frustrating.

With aircraft type, there is no real pattern to it, its just randomly allocated until you start bidding.

Have fun, you'll love it.

jas99915

23rd Sep 2007, 22:02

oh my gosh ams-lhr

your roster with 15 flights is such a lot... wow... they will be working you girl.. i used to get tired on 4-5 flights when I used to work for virgin.... let alone 15

enjoy ....:ok:

LHRKrew

24th Sep 2007, 08:21

And,a CDG and back at BA is probably worth about the same in allowances as a 3 day JFK at VS!!

Sorry...could'nt resist!!

kikko

26th Sep 2007, 09:30

Hi ,

Could anybody give us an accurate explanation about the NSP (National Sector Pay?) agreement between LGW and LHR?
What does it mean "being part of the NSP" or being out of it ?
I understand (pls correct me if I am wrong) than LGW is now part of the NSP.
Does LGW being part of the NSP mean that they can negotiate some sort of agreement with LHR (whatever this might be) or that "automatically" they must be under same conditions as LHR staff?
If it is about being able to negotiate agreements, does this mean that in order to get an agreement of any sort both parties must agree?..(:ugh:)
What does it mean being part of NSP as opposed to being part of air cabin crew NSP?
I 've done a search on the forum but I could not find a clear explanation

Thanks:)

VS-LHRCSA

26th Sep 2007, 10:50

Unless I'm mistaken, NSP stands for National Selection Panel.

As far as I can remember, NSP covered EFLHR, WWLHR and WWLGW but not EFLGW (previously known as EuroGatwick until it's merger with BA Cityflyer, the 90s version).

EuroGatwick was created when BA purchased Dan Air in 1991 and was firmly held in "wholly owned subsidury" status which kept crews on lower paid, harder working contracts. They were not included in the NSP, for a variety of reasons, costs being a major one I would imagine.

EuroGatwick crew were allowed to transfer to EF LHR at a rate of 50 per year and they lost rank and seniority in the process, although they kept their basic salary and date of joining for staff travel purposes.

WWLGW has been disolved (with crew transferring to LHR) and Single Fleet LGW being created out of EFLGW. Current crew would be better placed to comment on whether they are or will be part of the NSP. If SFLGW does become NSP then these crew will have to be considered when it comes to internal fleet transfers.

flyer55

26th Sep 2007, 11:56

Singlefleet LGW is part of the ACC NSP and new lists should be coming out soon for cabin crew so they will be able to put their name down for either EF LHR, WW LHR . When the fleet was it was a condition for the crew to be part of NSP .

Hope that helps & ive been waiting to tfr for 5 years like alot of LGW Crew !

kikko

26th Sep 2007, 12:06

Thanks!

Flyer, will there be an exact number per year of cabin crew to be transferred respectively to EF and WW? Is it true that no external recruitment will happen again for LHR?

BA Boi

26th Sep 2007, 12:58

kikko,

the rumours about no more external recruitment into the LHR fleets has been around for YEARS and YEARS. pay no heed to these rumours.

i seriously, seriously doubt that the company would agree (or even the union insist) to a fixed number of LGW crew being able to transfer to LHR.
the process that VS-LHRCSA mentions above was a 'gentlemans' agreement between the union and the company - it was never signed in blood. and toward the end of EF LGW they only transfered about 20 per year if i recall correctly.

it will purely be a case of putting your name on a transfer list and waiting for a call to offer you your choice of base and/or fleet when a gap in that base/fleet opens up.

kikko

26th Sep 2007, 13:37

BAboy,

I have also heard....that when the NSP will come to effect ALL Ba crew will be able to transfer across bases and fleet retaining their seniority and status.
Subject to operational needs staff will be able to transfer to their preferred base by applying.
At the same time BA may decide to transfer people according to the manpower needed at different bases etc.
If this is is true I wonder how the salary contract etc. is going to be affected since LHR and LGW have different contracts. (eg. If a LHR crew get transferred to LGW will his/her contract etc. change too?:eek:)
I understand that the transfers from LGW to LHR were done on a gentleman agreement basis, however this NSP agreement what is going to be ? another "gentlemen agreement"? Or something kind of "law binding"?

What I can't get my head around it is:
If LGW (like it was when Eurogatwick existed) was a subsidiary, different contract and conditions may apply for the same position, rank etc.
BUT if LGW will (or is?) mainline how can this be? It's a huge contradiction,
unless of course LGW is legally something different (???) and will always be than LHR.

Thanks again!!

lhrtolgw

26th Sep 2007, 16:15

Kikko,

For your information, NSP will result in anyone from LGW being able to apply for transfer to either WW or Eurofleet. They will now be able to retain their seniority and see their general terms and conditions change also.

As you are aware, there is an issue as BA has a pool of external people awaiting placements to Eurofleet. Although we all feel for them they have simply received the offer of a job; no formal contract has been signed. For this reason, BA are well within their rights to amend their offer to LGW and if that offer is declined they can simply state that this is their final (and only) offer. My view is that this is what they will do as NSP will not allow them to recruit externally for LHR again - unlike they did a number of months ago. This really would cause uproar. They have already been warned of the possible implications such an action will have.

Londonphilou

26th Sep 2007, 18:23

lhrtolgw, I see your point but at the time when those who were recruited for EF, there was no agreement made yet. I suppose once that agreement is in place they wont put out anymore vacancy for LHR. I cant see why there should be an uproar if BA gives us our EF courses as thats the post we applied for and the offer was made in May/June.

lhrtolgw

26th Sep 2007, 18:49

Londonphilou,

As I and others have told you before, none of us have an issue to grind with those people in the holding pool and I for one wish you well. When it comes to this business we should all be happy for the next person if they get what they want.

One thing I know is that you appear to have been screwed by BA before you have even signed a contract and that is just plain nasty. Even BA normally wait a few years before they start doing that!!

:)Very best wishes.

GODDESS OF DAWN

26th Sep 2007, 19:01

I can understand the position of LGW crew, but I tend to agree with Londonphilou. Also bear in mind there are many BA re-deployed staff like myself in the LHREF hold pool as well. We were offered either LHREF permanent or LHRWW temporary, but never LGW, I doubt that BA would risk leaving it's staff stranded, so I guess there will be courses for the LHREF hold pool (including external).

However I would understand if in the future BA decides to comply with the NSP agreement.

Very best wishes to you too.

DAWN :)

kikko

26th Sep 2007, 19:27

LHRTOLGW thanks for your answer, although it hasn't fully answered my original questions.
Regarding what BA may do or not do with people in EF hold pool that remains to be seen....but acutally this wasn't my question (even if I am in the hold pool).
My aim was try to understand a little bit more in depth what all this NSP agreement is about and what all the implications will be for all BA cabin crew at all bases...
I don't know if this a is a subject which can be fully discussed on this forum however if it is I still welcome a more global and accurate explanation.
By the way I would not like this to become in any way an argument about if people in EF hold pool should wait or not wait or whatever their (and mine ) future will be. This has been debated enough in my view ....and we all know where we stand with our decisions whatever they miight be.

newbagr

26th Sep 2007, 22:02

gosh i didnt even know that BA redeployed staff are waiting for a course! Well one thing for sure is that they wont stay without a job and they SHOULDNT! But it doesnt quite mean that along with the redeployed staff BA will say "we promised to those people in the holding pool a course LHR EF so we should keep our words!" Eventually, when you get into the company (and i hope you get where u want) you ll hear a lot of horror stories about courses starting for LHR and then first day of the course the bad news arrived! "Sorry we now need crew for LGW EF" ......and??? nothing happened! "its simply an answer of take it or leave it". BA will never do something with good intention only if they HAVE to! I d say that coming Oct (which is only a week away) they will have to start sorting the final details of the agreement. When its in place then thats it! Its like WW not taking perm crew! It has been an agreement for years that BA will not be allowed to take external perm crew! ...and simply they cant do otherwise! Though knowing BA...and how late everything is sorted...i could see delays with setting the agreement in place!So yes you might be lucky! But pls dont say that you ll get it because you ve been promised it! It simply doesnt work like that!

lhrtolgw

26th Sep 2007, 22:41

Goddess - I really, really hope they get you fixed up asap. I had not idea you were one of those awaiting redeployment. I bet you're dying to get where you need to be! I'll keep my fingers crossed for you.:):):)

Kikko - sorry but will try to further clarify:

Yes, with NSP all BA crew will be able to transfer between fleets/bases retaining their seniority and status (subject to operational needs and requirements at each base).

As different contracts are currently in operation at LGW/LHR, people would simply move across to the T & Cs at their new base and have their contract amended. This does not just apply to LGW people moving to LHR but also for those people who would want to move in the opposite direction (yes, believe it or not there are some).

It is my understanding too that an annual (minimal) batch of transfers used to take place from LGW to LHR on the basis of a 'gentlemans agreement' however NSP brings with it a formal, binding agreement which is something that LGW people have been awaiting for many years.

Yes, there used to be subsidiaries at LGW to supplement mainline BA services. This is no longer the case as everyone now works for mainline BA. That said, there are many people who managed to retain certain rights etc. from their previous employment with say Dan Air and so on (such as payments for tights - and yes, we all know how much that can save you). Yes, things are very, very confusing.

As mentioned above, making matters even harder to understand, although a mainline base, LGW crew are on a completely different contract to those people at LHR. BA are allowed to do this as they gained the agreement of the unions to do this when they first decided to introduce mixed flying. As a result, LGW has seen the introduction of an hourly rate as opposed to the more favourable allowance system in place at LHR.

Oh, and for what it's worth, if I were you I would probably hold on for Eurofleet too. You may well be the lucky (and last) people to get there externally and I wish you all the luck in the world. Just don't let them take the p..s and keep calling them.

Best wishes.:ok:

Londonphilou

27th Sep 2007, 02:21

Its not nice to say we have been screwed by BA already!! So far we are just waiting. I know some people have been in touch with recruitment and voiced their concerns about how long the wait is going to be and also those speculations coming from existing crew. They have emphasised one thing: DONT LISTEN TO ANYONE ESPECIALLY EXISTING CREW. Surely there are some recruitment people threading on here...who knows?

lhrtolgw

27th Sep 2007, 03:37

Londonphilou,

I was going to go down the road of suggesting you get off that high horse of your's or at least something like that but it just wouldn't work would it? It just seems whatever any of we crew say to you is either not good enough or incorrect.

If you are that sensitive do you really think this is the job for you after all.....???? :ugh:Also, surely your 'friend' within BA will have told you that we survive on supposition and gossip? It's the mainstay of any CC community.....

newbagr - please tell me, is it me or is it a waste of time advising some people?

xxxxxxxxx

kikko

27th Sep 2007, 08:18

Thanks LHRTOLGW for your explanation!
I hope you don't mind if I still dig in....

"..... however NSP brings with it a formal, binding agreement which is something that LGW people have been awaiting for many years. "

In what way the agreement will become binding? To my very limited understanding an agreement or else become binding when, if not honoured, it contravienes the low. If it deoesn't both parties could change their minds at any time whithout any "legal" consequences but only with a grat deal of disappointment etc.
Have the terms of this agreement been fully discussed and agreed yet?
If they have what are the outlines? If they havent't when will they be?

Sorry if I may sound pedantic in my questions but I rather form a picture from facts rather than opinions (which btw can also be welcome expecially if they are asked).
maybe if there was a Unionn Rep. on this forum could tell us some more...

Just a curiosity:

"BA are allowed to do this as they gained the agreement of the unions to do this when they first decided to introduce mixed flying. As a result, LGW has seen the introduction of an hourly rate as opposed to the more favourable allowance system in place at LHR."

Did LGW crew supported the unions at that time? In other words who did the unions reppresent at that time?

Londonphilou

27th Sep 2007, 08:29

I was not aiming only at you lhrtolgw...I was talking in general.
Thanks for all your advice. But to say we are already screwed is not what I would call an advice, more like an insult!
Best to leave it as it is and wait until the bosses make their decision. Good luck with your transfer.

GODDESS OF DAWN

27th Sep 2007, 09:04

Goddess - I really, really hope they get you fixed up asap. I had not idea you were one of those awaiting redeployment. I bet you're dying to get where you need to be! I'll keep my fingers crossed for you.
My life has been turned upside down overnight and the waiting and not knowing what's gonna happen and when is absolute agony.... My life is in a limbo right now, just hope it starts to move forward again soon. :ugh: :ugh:
Thanx for keeping your fingers crossed. :ok:
By the way the NSP info is very interesting. I hope that all at LGW finally get the equal opportunity they deserve to move between fleets. After all we all work for the same company.
As for external applicants in the LHREF hold pool, I still say hang in there and never give up hope. Think positive. :D
All the best to all.
DAWN :)

Londonphilou

27th Sep 2007, 09:23

Thanks Dawn and same to you too. You will be fine. No need to worry. You will be the among the first to get a course before anybody else. :ok:

VS-LHRCSA

27th Sep 2007, 09:27

Kikko, the actual ins and outs of the NSP are very difficult to explain in a public forum such as this. You are probably better off speaking to a union rep if you need absolute clarification. As far as I know it's an agreement that dates back to 1974, when BOAC was merged with BEA. Further mergers have since been taken into account, including those of British Caledonian and British Airtours.

I've spent some time in the BASSA office over the years. The NSP manuals are huge, thick volumes of legal writing which would take forever to explain. The NSP is still legally binding and you see plenty of evidence of this in the day to day runnings of the airline.

When mixed flying was introduced at LGW it was seen as a win-win situation for all. EFLGW crew were already on an hourly rate (inherited from the Dan Air merger) operating short haul routes. They had already become accustomed to a new bidding system and for them, mixed flying meant an opportunity to fly long haul routes. Having the bidding system, they were able to have control over their rosters. They were also told that the new "Single Fleet" would be incorporated into the NSP and they would be given the chance to tranfer fleets after two years.

WW LGW crews were all transfered to LHR, which is something that the majority of crew wanted. This is how Single Fleet was allowed to be created and arguably the fairest way to incorporate LGW into the NSP.

kikko

27th Sep 2007, 10:50

Thanks VS!

Now I understand why the unions agreed:
they offered all BA mainline LGW WW crew to go to LHR and to mantain their contracts (and as you said the majority did) whilst in the meantime they offered Eurogatwick the possibility of doing long haul and to be part of the NSP.
In that case the unions didn't have much more to negotiate obviously.
So would it be nearly true saying that LGW SF is a "glorified"Eurogatwick? And the fact that is now "mainline" it only applies to the possibility of easier (?) transfers whilst maintaining the seniority and rank?
When a purser transfers from LGW to LHR will he /she automatically receive same salary, contract and condiotions of LHR purser with same seniority?

VS-LHRCSA

27th Sep 2007, 11:08

That right, Kikko.

However....Purser vacancies at LHR (WW and EF) come up so rarely, Pursers at LGW who will have the RIGHT to transfer in rank, will realistically achieve a transfer after at least 10-15 years. Remember, there are a lot of very senior pursers at LGW who've been there since Dan Air and weren't affected by the 55 retirement age that was only recently abolished from mainline.

This will mean either LGW for life (so to speak) and working your way through the ranks OR transferring to LHR as main crew as soon as you can. One thing to note, under NSP, you CAN NOT downgrade to achieve a transfer, so the choices you make in the first few years at LGW will impact your career path.

Makes your head hurt, doesn't it.....lol

lhrtolgw

27th Sep 2007, 13:28

VS you are far more eloquent and informed than I.

Goddess - I can appreciate the feeling of being in limbo but just try to look at this as the calm before the storm. You'll soon be rushing around FCO/ARN/GVA/IST and wherever else like crazy enjoying all those sights and sounds; new colleagues; having a laugh; shopping like never before....the list goes on. I am soooo excited for you - I'm sure it'll happen very, very soon! :)

BA Boi

27th Sep 2007, 14:41

wow! VS-LHRCSA you've got a fantastic memory.

it's nice to see somebody on here for once who actually knows what they're talking about.

:).

Melany

27th Sep 2007, 15:17

Hallo everbody

After having well read what all of you have said (all very interesting)
I decided to call BA (as LHRTOLGW suggested).

I have asked about loosing the opportunity of EF course placement becouse of BA won't be recruiting externally for LHR anymore in the not too distant future.
I must say I have been much reassured that this is not going to happen.
Now who to believe?....Does recruitment knows better or not?....:confused:..or they just say things for the sake of it?...Who to trust? Could they say somtehing today and something completely different tomorrow?.......
Is BA truly like a flag in the wind?.....:hmm:

Londonphilou

27th Sep 2007, 18:24

I know a couple of people who have rang too and being told the same thing. I was also being reassured but by email when I wrote to them but I have not called. Lets hope its true but we will never know until it happens.

GODDESS OF DAWN

29th Sep 2007, 11:59

Great news.... :ok:

Sorry to hear about your colleague......not making it :eek: Must be heartbroken.

All the best for your first day... :D

DAWN

Flower Duet.

29th Sep 2007, 13:51

Enjoy your first flight as Air Cabin Crew AMS-LHR :ok:

Was there a reason why the person was asked to leave ?
SEP/FIRST AID EXAMS etc .. do please tell, As a warning to the rest of us.

SuperBoy

29th Sep 2007, 14:29

Melany,

It's not a question of whom to trust. It's more a question of there is alot of things going on in the background and NO ONE can or are able to give you a definitive answer.

Just a couple of months ago crew at LGW were told that there would be no more direct entry recruitment into LHR and right after that they recruited 154 direct into LHR. Crew on temp contracts were told that it would be a temp contract only and then they were given permanent contract at LGW.

At the end of the day people, recruitment, crew, wannabees can tell you what they want, you can believe what you want but until it's in writing in black and white it's not certain (and even then things can change)

As so many of our managers like too say you'll just have to wait and see.

GODDESS OF DAWN

4th Oct 2007, 09:04

Looking out for yr post.....

Waiting... tick tock tick tock....

DAWN :D

Twrecks

4th Oct 2007, 13:13

Hi

The figure of 154 sounds like the total redeployment figure from the Regions ? BA Staff who were redeployed were part of the Ground NSP, and also had certain rights which stem back to their orginal contracts, that may explain why they had permanent contracts.

BA LHR WW offered redeploys temp contracts, as to keep in line with NSP agreements. I am sure they will be offered permanency on LH, and if not Short Haul on Eurofleet at the end of their 11 month contracts. ( BA offered the secondments to resolve a serve shortage of crew in world wide.)

Eurofleet is a good fleet ! LHR - AMS you will be very happy xxx

Ta

Twrecks

GODDESS OF DAWN

4th Oct 2007, 19:30

I am one of the re-deployed BA staff not in the UK by the way and we were offered the LHRWW temp contracts or LHREF perm contracts at the assessment, however we were very clearly told that if we chose the LHRWW temp contract we could be terminated at the end of it with no guarantee of further employement with the company.

We were never offered this alternative as secondment. So when you say Ba offered the secondments to cover shortage of crew in world wide, could you please clarify where you get this info from?

If your info were correct it could cause a lot of anxiety for the BA re-deployed staff who have chosen LHREF permanent and are still in the hold pool. :confused:

Thanx.

DAWN :confused:

lovethesky

4th Oct 2007, 20:44

ba would never offer the redeployed staff perm lhr ww, it would cause an uproar!! and go against all current agreements.

MancRed

4th Oct 2007, 20:56

As you know I am re-deployed ground staff going LHRWW on temp 11 month contract,at the end of this I will be in the same boat I was before I decided to try for the temp contract......... either way BA have always said they will have a position for me if I want one (where that is could be/ aand what position is anyones guess) what I am trying to say is as current BA staff awaiting LHREF you will get there in the end its just a case of waiting......

I think that makes sense?????:hmm:

VS-LHRCSA

5th Oct 2007, 04:49

BA have in the past given re-deployed people permanent places at WW LHR. An example that comes to mind is when the BFS base was closed. They were offered WW LHR as there was nowhere else for them to go at the time. As far as I know, those who took it are still there. This was around 2002/3 and they were already cabin crew, so that may have made a difference.

So have the rules changed or is this just a sneaky way of getting rid of staff without having to pay redundancy?

GODDESS OF DAWN

5th Oct 2007, 07:33

Good to hear from u again. :)

Hmm .... :hmm: interesting, because we coincided with some re-deployed staff from MAN at the assessment and we were all clearly told at the presentation that LHRWW was temporary and no guarantee of further employment.

Personally I hope that all BA re-deployed staff who chose the temporary contract will be offered a permanent contract after the 11 months.... after all thats happened its the least BA could do for its loyal staff.

Jarvis keep in touch......

All the best for your course.

DAWN :)

SuperBoy

5th Oct 2007, 14:20

Twrecks,

The 154 I refer too is the external candidates that were recruited into LHR EF. Not the redployment of staff ,11 months WW Temps. That figure would be 220 internal candidates plus the sixty external temp candidates.

You do not need to question these figures as they are freely available on the BA crew forum. Just search for posts by STS.

Tiiiger

6th Oct 2007, 05:53

Hotline tickets, how much reduced are they?

VS-LHRCSA

6th Oct 2007, 06:32

They're not too bad. Sometimes you can find internet fares that are actually cheaper. The good thing about hotline is that they are available reasonably close to departure, unlike the cheap internet fares. It is however difficult to get them during peak periods on popular routes. For example, hotline tickets to SYD are rarely available. They are also non-refundable and dates are fixed, just like LCC.

747-436

6th Oct 2007, 15:55

I have heard that BA are very short of WW crew at the moment and are having to operate some flights out empty with no passengers just carrying freight!

lhrtolgw

6th Oct 2007, 17:28

This is a temporary problem which has occurred because of a cross -over in the large number of part-time crew being off at the same time.

dudley1

11th Oct 2007, 07:26

My wife Chrissie is due to retire this month thanks to early severance and her last operating flight is the BA069 (PHL) on the 21st Oct back on the 24th. She is then due out to CPT that evening (BA059) on a full fare to join me!

I wondered if any of you knows someone on there who who might just give her a bit of a mention as a surprise as sadly I can't be there??

Much appreciated

Mr Dudley1

b77

19th Oct 2007, 19:59

i hope the rosters will come out tonight

the letter

20th Oct 2007, 13:11

Is it possible to get a language flag on your name badge? I was told by someone it's no longer possible to get it!

SuperBoy

20th Oct 2007, 15:28

You can get the flag you just no longer get paid for it.

jitensha

23rd Oct 2007, 16:33

Hello,

I'm a new recruit to BA, but unfortunately I will be based at LGW. And as I will commute to and from Paris, this is not that convenient. Any ideas on how long I can be transferred to LHR? Any opinion/experience appreciated.

Thanks!

Matt101

23rd Oct 2007, 17:00

I assure you there is nothing unfortunate about Gatwick - nobody can give you a definitive answer on transfer time to LHR from LGW.
The plan was to have a formal system of transfer in place by now but that time has come and gone due to poor TU relations at the moment with BASSA. If what we hope for is put in place soon then transfers were estimated at 2 - 3 years however the old system which is still in place can take up to 7 years.
Either way I would suggest making yourself comfortable for the forseable future. I promise you'll enjoy it and as you're new you'll probably end up with the best rosters!
As long as you don't waste money the wage is very livable despite what people say - I get by fine on a Main Crew Salary - you just have to work for it and sometimes that means doing harder destinations and not bidding for BGI all the time!

Flower Duet.

23rd Oct 2007, 17:01

Why don't you move to the UK, and out of interest did you apply for
LGWSF ?

As I did and I find your post rude and for one I'm excited about working for British Airways!! LGWSF

You should of said that at your interview, I'm sure they would of liked that :=

jitensha

23rd Oct 2007, 17:26

This is not a question of being rude! Only that I did not know very well the complexity of transfers between LGW and LHR at the time of my application (it is unusual for me that crews are positioned according to a sole airport).

I called the HR recently about this but they only replied that would be able to have me transferred to LHR once they have vacancy. I would have thought that with Asian languages proficiency, you would have been positioned on flights requesting such skills.

For members based in LGW: how often are you rostered with a LH? Once every month? What is a typical LGW roster?

Many many thanks for your assistance!

Hand Solo

23rd Oct 2007, 17:38

I would have thought that with Asian languages proficiency, you would have been positioned on flights requesting such skills.

If BA need language skills they hire international crew from the region in question and base them abroad.

jitensha

23rd Oct 2007, 17:53

Alright. Thanks for your posts.

Could anyone post a LGW typical roster for information? Thanks.

GODDESS OF DAWN

23rd Oct 2007, 19:50

Here is an example of a BA LGW Roster which I have copy pasted from another Forum.

Hope it helps.

WE 25 JUL REPORT AT 0630 LOCAL TIME LON
0630 BA2650 LGW KEF 0945 73D
1045 BA2651 KEF LGW 1350 73D 850
CLEAR TIME 1520 LOCAL TIME LON
------------------- TOTAL DUTY HOURS 850
TH 26 JUL REPORT AT 0540 LOCAL TIME LON
0540 BA2902 LGW MAN 0640 73D
0715 BA2903 MAN LGW 0820 73D 410
CLEAR TIME 0950 LOCAL TIME LON
------------------- TOTAL DUTY HOURS 410
FR 27 JUL REPORT AT 0945 LOCAL TIME LON
1005 BA2037 LGW MCO 1920 77D 1105
SA 28 JUL 2125 BA2036 MCO LGW 0530 77D 935
CLEAR TIME (SU 29 JUL) 0700 LOCAL TIME LON
------------------- TOTAL DUTY HOURS 2040

MO 30 JUL OFF DUTY
TU 31 JUL OFF DUTY
WE 01 AUG STANDBY 1800 2200 LOCAL TIME LGW
TH 02 AUG STANDBY AT HOME 1530 2130 LOCAL TIME LGW
FR 03 AUG STANDBY 2100 2300 LOCAL TIME LGW
SA 04 AUG STANDBY AT HOME 1100 1600 LOCAL TIME LGW
SU 05 AUG OFF DUTY
MO 06 AUG OFF DUTY
TU 07 AUG REPORT AT 2130 LOCAL TIME LON
2130 BA2646 LGW TIA 0030 73D
WE 08 AUG 0225 BA2647 TIA LGW 0530 73D 930
CLEAR TIME 0700 LOCAL TIME LON
------------------- TOTAL DUTY HOURS 930
REPORT AT 2055 LOCAL TIME LON
2055 BA2670 LGW ADB 0050 73D
TH 09 AUG 0140 BA2671 ADB LGW 0550 73D 1025
CLEAR TIME 0720 LOCAL TIME LON
------------------- TOTAL DUTY HOURS 1025
FR 10 AUG OFF DUTY
SA 11 AUG REPORT AT 0945 LOCAL TIME LON
1005 BA2037 LGW MCO 1920 77D 1105
SU 12 AUG 2120 BA2036 MCO LGW 0525 77D 935
CLEAR TIME (MO 13 AUG) 0655 LOCAL TIME LON
------------------- TOTAL DUTY HOURS 2040

TU 14 AUG OFF DUTY
WE 15 AUG OFF DUTY
TH 16 AUG REPORT AT 0945 LOCAL TIME LON
1005 BA2037 LGW MCO 1920 77D 1105
FR 17 AUG 2120 BA2036 MCO LGW 0525 77D 935
CLEAR TIME (SA 18 AUG) 0655 LOCAL TIME LON
------------------- TOTAL DUTY HOURS 2040

SU 19 AUG OFF DUTY
MO 20 AUG OFF DUTY
TU 21 AUG REPORT AT 0700 LOCAL TIME LON
0700 BA2542 LGW FCO 0935 73G
1020 BA2543 FCO LGW 1255 73G
1410 BA2738 LGW GVA 1545 735 1015
WE 22 AUG 0520 BA2735 GVA LGW 0700 735
0825 BA8113 LGW AMS 0940 735 550
TH 23 AUG 0500 BA8110 AMS LGW 0610 735
0800 BA2464 LGW MAD 1025 73D
1110 BA2465 MAD LGW 1335 73D 1005
CLEAR TIME 1505 LOCAL TIME LON
------------------- TOTAL DUTY HOURS 2610
FR 24 AUG REPORT AT 0945 LOCAL TIME LON
1005 BA2037 LGW MCO 1920 77D 1105
SA 25 AUG 2125 BA2036 MCO LGW 0530 77D 935
CLEAR TIME (SU 26 AUG) 0700 LOCAL TIME LON
------------------- TOTAL DUTY HOURS 2040

MO 27 AUG OFF DUTY
TU 28 AUG OFF DUTY
WE 29 AUG REPORT AT 1740 LOCAL TIME LON
1740 BA2586 LGW VCE 1945 73D
2030 BA2587 VCE LGW 2235 73D 625
CLEAR TIME (TH 30 AUG) 0005 LOCAL TIME LON
------------------- TOTAL DUTY HOURS 625
TH 30 AUG NON-OP 1400 LOCAL TIME LGW
FR 31 AUG REPORT AT 0505 LOCAL TIME LON
0505 BA2362 LGW MRS 0655 73D
0730 BA2363 MRS LGW 0920 73D 545
CLEAR TIME 1050 LOCAL TIME LON
------------------- TOTAL DUTY HOURS 545

DC-10

23rd Oct 2007, 22:17

Just looked at the roster above and thought oh my god how vile then realised it is mine :) - thought it seemed familiar !

That was my first couple of rosters and although it looks like a nightmare it wasn't that bad. I hadn't bidded as I was new and I do love Orlando which helps!

My last two rosters have been much better probably as I had a good teacher to show me how to bid properly. In October I had two 4 day Barbados trips, 2 Bermudas and a couple of Manchester nightstops. November I have one double, one there and back, standby for 5 days, 2 Bermudas and a Glasgow nightstop.

So in fairness the example shown wasn't one of the best although I have seen far worse!

Matt101

23rd Oct 2007, 23:04

Yeah was about to add this - what a horrible looking roster! - I tend to get 4 Long Haul's at least a month then a couple of euro tours a there and back or a double and some standby.

This month I have 5 Longhauls and 3 there and backs that's it. Next month 4 long hauls and 1 there and back.
It's swings and roundabouts.

The reason we don't dual base and you will only fly form Gatwick is because of a difference in terms and conditions we could not fly in and ou of the other base as it would dilute their lucrative terms - terms we wish to see preserved for a time when we do eventually transfer to LHR!

But I commute from further than paris (travel time wise) it's pretty easy.

As mentioned before our International crew are hired and based abroad. Your more likely to get a transfer to LHR by offering your body than your skills :} That was a joke please don't actualy try that.... seriously.

jitensha

24th Oct 2007, 04:37

Thanks for all for information provided.

How come you can fly so many LH whereas the majority of flights from LGW is SH? I suppose you can be granted with such flights thanks to your seniority, right?

DC-10

24th Oct 2007, 07:30

Seniority comes into it however there are more main crew "gaps" on longhaul than shorthaul generally. Most 737 flights have minimum crew so have one purser and two main crew. 777's have one cabin manager, one Purser (soon to be two) and 8 or 9 main crew. So even if you don't bid you should get 3 or 4 longhaul trips a month especially at the moment as so many crew are on high hours.

jitensha

24th Oct 2007, 16:26

Thanks for information! I have only flown LH in my previous experience and I feel a little worried about SH. By the way, what about the OFF period? I was told during assessment that we would have 9 days every month (it's not a lot...). Can I expect more than that or they really stick to it? What about the STANDBYs? Are you often called?

DC-10

24th Oct 2007, 16:33

Shorthaul is so easy service wise - doesn't take long to do :) 9 days off is the norm although this month I had 10 rostered. So think 9 and any extra will be a nice surprise.

I have been called on all but one airport standby and have yet to do a home standby as those days have been filled with a trip beforehand.

jitensha

24th Oct 2007, 16:37

what is the given notice for standby? A few days in advance or only a couple of hours? In my previous experience it was 18 hours before flight.

Thank you!

DC-10

24th Oct 2007, 17:17

Hi Jitensha

If you are on home standby you are given a minimum of 90 minutes notice. I have yet to do a standby at home though as they have been filling home standbys a couple of days before. They tend to keep airport standbys as they are and then you wait at Jubilee house until they call you. You can get longhaul or shorthaul from either standby.

blueskybird

27th Oct 2007, 09:23

hi everyone :}

how much does it cost on staff travel to fly to Orlando?

many thanx! :ok:

VS-LHRCSA

27th Oct 2007, 09:50

It works out at around £140 give or take. However, you would be STRONGLY advised to check the loads, especially coming back. It may even be worth your while going to or from TPA instead, or at least having back up tickets. ATL is a good way to get there. DL have plenty of flights on both LGW-ATL and ATL-MCO.

leanne2402

27th Oct 2007, 18:30

I've just finished my fourth week of training at LGW and have just got my first roster. An Edinburgh, 4 Houstons and a Dallas. I'm quite surprised as I was expecting a few more domestics and europeans.

The Controlller

1st Dec 2007, 12:55

Are BA running out of cabin crew ? See Titan/Monarch/Astraeus working out of LGW today.

TopBunk

1st Dec 2007, 13:32

Yes!

New Single Fleet contract at LGW, people transferring up to LHR, 900 hours limits, too many people leaving, poor quality of recruits with more failing the course, too long to get airside passes, more than expected leaving early, increased sickness, low pay.

Perm some combination from that lot and you'll be in the ball park.
:rolleyes:

monkeybusiness2

1st Dec 2007, 18:23

"poor quality of recruits with more failing the course"

Not heard that one before. Where do people get there information from?

flybywire

1st Dec 2007, 20:47

I agree with TopBunk. He gets his info from where it should come from!
Having worked in the training centre myself while expecting my first baby, I can confirm that the quality of the recruits has gone down. I just cannot remember the number of various disciplinary notes/failed exams documents (wich generate points) I had to check, copy, send to the right department and then file!!! Unbelievable. This is not to say that everybody is like that, but with some courses like that, working conditions aside,it is only normal to experience such wastage in a short period of time.

Then all the other points mentioned above do the rest!!!

wiggy

1st Dec 2007, 22:54

8 "subs" on Saturday to the usual suspects as listed by controlller.

Not sure about trainee quality being an issue, but it wouldn't help. My North Terminal moles tell me it's terms and Conditions e.g. poor roster stability, poor pay, etc leading to BA not retaining the people it managed to train. Then again I'm sure somebody somewhere did a cost/benefit analysis of all this when the "new" contracts were put in place and considered it worthwhile - bet they've already moved on before their mistakes became obvious

Oh, and the increasing incidence of cancelled BA flights has even made the French news...though I thought the French were used to cancelled flights

TopBunk

1st Dec 2007, 23:34

FBW

Thanks for the support;)

MB2

The information comes from an internal BA source and was given in response to the very same question from someone directly responsible for the crewing situation.

Oh, and btw, it's 'their' and not 'there' in that context:cool:

TB

VS-LHRCSA

2nd Dec 2007, 02:02

I too, can confirm that people have been failing the training courses.

I've been at Cranebank for a while now and have seen the LGW crew coming up for SEP training. All I can see it that a lot of them seem to be very young, which is not a crime I know but there does seem to be a lack of maturity. The staff shuttle bus does take me back to my school days with feet on seats, giggling and scowling looks at anyone over 21.

Every lunchtime I am forced to endure the sight of saggy jeans and underwear while eating Cranebank's finest.

There's certainly nothing wrong with starting young, I know I did but there needs to be a degree of maturity in cabin crew. Perhaps if the money was improved BA could attract older applicants to LGW but I know there is nothing in the budget for a pay rise. This is a shame because the on the whole, the SF LGW concept is quite good, especially with the bidding and mixed flying.

Mr Grumps

2nd Dec 2007, 06:37

My colleagues and I have to try and fight our way through these recruits to get to the canteen counter every day (we are engineers in the hangar that the LGW training school is housed) and we have all remarked of late that there certainly seems a lowering of the recruiting standards. The attitude of some of these newbies is definitely shall we say questionable. That's probably why there seems to be a higher than usual failure rate.

VS-LHRCSA

2nd Dec 2007, 08:37

Totally agree, Mr Grumps. It's like you're inferior because you're not in a cabin crew uniform. You get the snarley looks that usually come from teenagers when told to clean their room.

m500dpp

2nd Dec 2007, 09:10

My daughter joined one of the mentioned airlines in July. Of the 15 that attended the interview, 8 were selected for training. One got pregnant in the meantime, so then there were 7.

of those I think 2 have been let go since, and 2 more are looking to leave (according to galley fm), giving only 3 remaining. Those that are leaving are mainly going as they dont like the work/or the time away from their loved ones. (would have thought they could have figured that out before applying!!!)

All through the training on this airline, jeans were most certainly not allowed, smart appearance in accordance with the job was the order of the day - seems the BA's standards have indeed fallen!!!

Regarding the age comments, my daughter is 19 and nearly always the youngest on the flight. she also seems to be amongst the hardest working, and all of her assessments put her well ahead of where they would expect someone with her experience. Its not down to age its down to the individual......................

As an aside this airline is reorganising and its possible my daughter's contract may not get renewed, seems like she wont find it too hard getting in somewhere else!!! (anyone recruiting pm me!!!)

Flower Duet.

2nd Dec 2007, 10:04

What a slap in the face!!

VS-LHRCSA

2nd Dec 2007, 10:07

Is your daughter on the temporary WW LHR contract? If so, the jury is still out on whether they will be offered permanent contracts. The story seems to change all the time. Word is that LGW are not keen to take on ex-LHR crew as this has not always worked in the past. However I personally believe that this recruitment drive has been handled differently. No one should be under any illusion that they will be kept on at WW LHR but there is hope to be kept on at LGW. If anyone is offered LGW there shouldn't be any bitterness this time around. There are also rumours of another campaign for EF LHR next year, so hopefully she will be offered this. Until the company can confirm one way or the other, the official word will be "11 months only".

In my posts I was careful to stress that it is maturity that is lacking, not necessarily age. I was also very young when I started flying (before my BA days) but I knew how to behave. Perhaps it was because my youth was an exception, I was surrounded by older people. Get a bunch on 19 year olds, put them in a hotel for 10 days and you are going to have behaviour problems with one or two that will affect training.

Oh and you're right, jeans were not allowed in my day. I don't think they are allowed even now but there you go.

The Controlller

2nd Dec 2007, 11:29

I think there were 9 on Saturday......carries on to the 24 DEC. What future for Gatwick with regards to BA ?

bagsybtmbunk

2nd Dec 2007, 12:09

Hey guys and gals
I'm intrigued - just what exactly to you do VS-LHRCSA? Every company link I go on whether Siverjet,BA,VS etc you're there with some sort of advice to give over. I'm just bewildered to know what it is exactly you do and for who? You offer advice to newies whether it be BA (and accurately I might add) VS or whoever. I'm just intrugued by you that's all.
Enjoy peeps. x

flybywire

2nd Dec 2007, 12:18

VS-LHRCSA I agree with you on the maturity vs age argument.

I started flying at 22 and was perfectly capable of looking after myself, the passengers and the various emergencies I had in my first year. On the other hand, when I trained for BA, there were some people much, much older than me in the course. While myself and a small group where studying and practising evacuation procedures and fighting fires with the hotel room bathroom door, some others (all the older ones in fact) were more than happy to just drink away all night in the pub opposite the hotel.

To add insult to injury, the evening before our last SEP day they all got really drunk and the senior member of the group even managed to throw up during the CRM course the following morning. :mad:
Very professional indeed!! However we all passed the course with the exception of one person, as somehow the senior people's wisdom eventually kicked in (or the enthusiasm started to fade...it depends on points of view!)

As for jeans, they are not allowed on the course so I do not know who said it is ok to wear them as it is not. Although for the day that you're rostered swimming test/slides/fire you are allowed to wear some sort of tracksuit trousers. The trainers' words are in fact "comfortable clothing" as for health&safety rules you have to wear non-restrictive clothing. How that is interpreted on a daily basis, I do not know.

What really annoys the whole community at LGW is that those cabin crew that are still sticking to their jobs for whatever reason have been working so hard during the last 12 months that have hit the 900 flying hours limit and now are compelled to do "ground duties" (long story, it doesn't mean they're working on the ground, it's more like a kind of weird stand-by). So we lack cabin crew and those who are able to fly cannot because they've been worked so hard for the last year!!!!!!

T&C and money are a huge factor why people leave so soon, and so used to be the rosters. Someone allegedly reported that new entrants' rosters are "hand picked" to give them the impression that it's all lovely at LGW and postpone their leaving day for a while!!!!!! Whether this is true or not, nobody knows, but it is true that new entrants' do not have the workload that would be expected in this time of crisis!!!

Another factor that is repeating itself, which I previously experienced while flying for a UK charter airline, is that the job of cabin crew is still perceived as glamorous and the life style like the tv series "mile-high" (which should be banned!!!) with lots of fun, booze, sex, money, jetsetting around the world....so lots of people who had been working in clean environments like high street retail shops etc think they can make their lives exciting working as little as possible, while the reality is completely the opposite!!!
Fun? wake up calls at 3am are rarely fun. Booze? Maybe in your days off, as most short haul nightstops have a minimum rest of 11hrs and depending on where you fly rules can be very restrictive on alcohol consuption.
Sex? Even if there were the chance, most crew are simply too shattered to even think about that.
Money?hahahaha!! Not at LGW!!!:{
Jetsetting around the world? Around the world's most famous chains of hotels maybe. By the time you have rested and had something to eat it's time to fly back!! 7 day lonh-haul trips are an exception at LGW and some of the longer ones still have shuttles in between.

These are major factors in my opinion. The crew who have been working for long and are not leaving despite all of that (including myself) are usually doing the job for other various reasons that definitely exclude the need of paying the rent and bills, but those young new people who start their working lives with BA or move from retail and similar jobs soon realize that they can easily earn twice as much working half as much and do not think about it twice before they fly the nest.

Aaahhh I had to get that out of my chest, I feel better now ;)
FBW

aar4n5

2nd Dec 2007, 13:01

I totally agree with what flybywire has said also another problem is the comparisons with WW LHR, i know different base, different T&c's but crew cannot help themseleves comparing with LHR crew who work for the same company, in the same uniform, on the same aircraft doing the same job but with more crew, more money and more days off.
To many crew you can see how this is the cause of some irriatation that we all work for the same company yet at LGW we are treated totally differently and as many crew see it unfairly.
As had been mentioned in previous posts is has been hard for crew who have been temp at LHR to then be sent to Gatwick earning less money.

c_hostie

2nd Dec 2007, 14:13

Yes it's hard for temp LHR crew to be sent to LGW on less money but it would be even more unfair for them to be kept on permanently at lhr when crew at lgw have been in the company for years, on the waiting lists for long-haul and eurofleet for years. In my opinion the crew waiting at lgw should be put first.

nuigini

2nd Dec 2007, 15:02

Why would it be unfair to keep them on permanent contracts (EF LHR) after they have finished their temporary contract? I can't really see any difference between EF. Sure, there are crew at LGW who are on waiting list for LHR, but isn't it also unfair then that BA is recruiting straight into EF LHR, when they could take crew from LGW?

volpone1605

3rd Dec 2007, 01:42

The madness continues......BA announced on Friday night that Heathrow crew from Eurofleet would be used from 3rd of December to cover Gatwick flights to Naples.

Crew will report at Compass, be coached to Jubilee House and have Hotel Accomadation for early starts and late finish flights.

VS-LHRCSA

3rd Dec 2007, 02:19

Well, if it's okay for WW LGW to crew LHR flights, then why not?

The amount of times I sat on the M25 to operate a LOS, JED or RUH (never got called for anything decent) is not funny. More often than not, it was working up, too.

I guess if it stops flights being cancelled then it's operations doing their best with the available resources.

flybywire

3rd Dec 2007, 09:13

VS-, it will be EF LHR crew and an A319, and it hasn't been defined just yet.

However it is NOT ok as that move will cost us an awful lot of money, which could have been spent recruiting more crew and giving SFG a decent contract!!!!!!!!!!!! What's the point in saving if then you waste like this?!?!?

BABOBO

3rd Dec 2007, 10:17

Hear. hear!

VS-LHRCSA

3rd Dec 2007, 17:30

Oh don't get me wrong, I'm not defending the situation. I am defending the poor ops staff who have flights to crew and no crew to do it with. They have to make do with what you have. Believe me, I know what a waste of money it is.

If it was the other way around, LGW wouldn't get hotac that's for sure. We never did. Occaisionally we would get some LHR crew down to operate MCO on the old two-class. They would get a hotel before and after and all the allowances that go with it.

BABOBO

4th Dec 2007, 09:49

VS-LHRCSA - I did get the drift of your post! I was just supporting your views! I am LGW crew and know exactly the score!

The Moo

4th Dec 2007, 10:16

No to LHR crews operating out of LGW. Whats to stop LGW crews coming to LHR and operating routes like SIN/HKG/SYD/NRT.

ZILLI

4th Dec 2007, 11:33

No to LHR crews operating out of LGW. Whats to stop LGW crews coming to LHR and operating routes like SIN/HKG/SYD/NRT.

Errr, because they are not checked out on the 747 for a start? :bored:

The Moo

4th Dec 2007, 16:56

SIN/ SYD is already operated on a 777 and there is nothing to stop HKG and NRT and CPT and indeed any flight being operated on a 777. So whats your point ZILLI ?. the 777 has similar range to 747. But is in fact cheaper to run and even cheaper with LGW cabin crew .

VS-LHRCSA

4th Dec 2007, 18:33

Is it 2002 again?

Glamgirl

5th Dec 2007, 21:28

First of all, we can't operate LHR flights because Bassa at LHR put the nail in the coffin when pretending to do our Memorandum of Agreement. Therefore we can't operate longer duty days than 12.5 hours (planned). Thanks for that one, bassa!

I've found that most of the crew who've left over the last year have been ex-temps from LHR, and a lot of them felt hard done by because they had to come to LGW. As far as I'm concerned, I had no sympathy with these people, as they knew it was a temporary contract and IF they were offered permanent that it would be LGW. If I got a job with a temporary contract I would certainly save up as much money as I could, just in case. Also, I wouldn't go out and buy a new car, flat, designer clothes etc.

Rightly, some of the people here have stated the reasons for crew shortage. The main issue at the moment is the 900 hrs rule, which (as we pointed out to the company last year) is due to only 2 days off after a long haul flight and long double duty days.

I do find though, that even though our life at LGW isn't perfect by any means - far from it- it is better than a lot of jobs out there in the "real" world. I don't agree with the vast difference in t&c's and pay between the two LON airports, but apart from joining a union and telling them what you want changed when the MOA is re-written (scheduled v soon) nothing will change. You may not get your wish granted, but unless the unions know what people want changed, then they can't fight for us.

I know a lot of crew are either knackered or working 2 jobs. May I also add that a lot of crew go shopping on every trip they do state side, but claim to have no money for food? Don't get me wrong, I know we don't earn very much compared to a lot of airlines/other jobs, but it is still possible to live a life, one just have to budget for it, so no living champagne lifestyle with lemonade money.

I still love my job (most of the time), but some crew can really make the job difficult. Lack of work ethic, sour faces, a can't-be-bothered attitude and general lack of maturity makes for difficult trips. I want to be able to do the job and do it well, to keep our pax coming back. I want to have fun whilst working and I love smiling and laughing (who doesn't?). It's incredibly frustrating the amount of feedback I've had to give to crew due to their attitude. Hopefully this will all change soon, and I look forward to the new recruits coming on line.

If you have a course scheduled for LGW, we will welcome you with open arms. You will have fun, meet some great people and work hard. We do play hard too, if that's your thing. Just don't buy that penthouse in Chelsea or the Porche just yet. If you have previous flying experience there is great opportunity for promotion fairly quickly (just make sure you're ready for it).

Sorry for the rant, I just had to get it off my chest.

Wishing everyone a merry xmas, a happy new year and may all your dreams come true.

Gg

cal900

6th Dec 2007, 00:05

Are we really suggesting that the quality of recruits is that much lower at LGW then any other BA base?

I don’t see any reasoning behind it. :confused:

newbagr

6th Dec 2007, 07:28

dont you? you get what you pay for.....best pay attracts the best and you can afford to employ the best:-) When you pay peanuts though...you dont have the luxury to be very picky and even if you manage to attract some good people working for you then you cannot retain them! .... unfortunately BA has decided to follow some other companies in choosing to employ people for a short time and then keep recruiting all year round in order to reduce cost!....its not the solution though and the situation at LGW is the perfect example!!!!

flybywire

6th Dec 2007, 14:20

I agree with newbagr. After seeing what it is all about the really good ones soon fly the nest as the first opportunity arises, and with them anyone who has some sort of commitment (that is, family, mortgage etc). Those who have been there a long time and who are staying, are doing so for many many reasons. BA was my dream job since 1994 and I was 14, I worked so hard to get what I needed to be able,9 years later, to move to the UK and then work here, I was the most enthusiastic person in the world. And believe me, despite the c**p I still look like I am when I am at work. But unfortunately they have killed my passion for this airline, and I will definitely leave as soon as I have a clear idea of what can make me feel that I am a valued asset, needed, respected and that will give me the possibility to earn adequate money for my experience and efforts!!! :{

Glamgirl

6th Dec 2007, 22:04

It really depends on your rosta for the month what you get paid. Usually, at a guess, between GBP1000 (rubbish rosta) and GBP 1600 (v good rosta, ie long trips). We still get breakfast allowance in Europe and Caribbean as well.

Why not just give it a try? You can read here and say you're not going to follow your plans because of what some people say on a forum. Or you can seize the day and give it a go and see how you like it. Remember that the first couple of months you'll only get paid basic salary, so if you haven't started saving - do it now.

Good luck and look forward to see you in Jubilee House (I'm one of the few still smiling, lol)

Gg

Human Factor

7th Dec 2007, 05:27

gissabreak,

If things carry on as they are, you will hit 900 hours after about ten months. At that point you will effectively be on basic pay only so plan on £800 per month for a couple of months per year.

newbagr

7th Dec 2007, 18:00

BA have decided that they are not going to do anything about the current crisis at LGW so things are turning for the worse.....!The unions are getting ready for a battle!

VS-LHRCSA

7th Dec 2007, 18:37

Well, they're fast tracking a lot of the training to get people online quicker but realistically, that's not going to happen until mid-Feb, which is going have consequences for the business. Looks like this slim-line LGW contract has turned out to be a false economy after all. All for the sake of an MBT and some hope of a LHR transfer.

This could actually be the catalyst for some improvement to the T&Cs for LGW crew - if the company pays attention and learns from its mistake.

newbagr

7th Dec 2007, 23:02

i am not sure they are learning though or keen to learn.....and resolve the situation....seems that Gatwick is on its deathbed somehow and the company dont really care to do much to save us...

Syawriahsitirb

7th Dec 2007, 23:23

I have to say, myself and my colleague just read today the recent notice posted to all Gatwick Cabin Crew by their unions. It seems that the next few months are going to be very rocky indeed. The company have stately refused to even consider what terms the unions put forward. This shows how much they regard the Gatwick cabin crew.

I must say, I am not gatwick cabin crew, but gatwick flight crew. I work with these people every day and see what conditions they have to put up with compared to the likes of Heathrow. I think it is disgusting the way the company treats cabin crew at gatwick.

I personally believe that this is a turning point for you all. I have always believed that you never stand up enough and fight for what should be right i.e. you should never be on different terms and conditions to Heathrow. You operate a British Airways aircraft, you are British Airways Cabin Crew, you deliver a British Airways product and you wear the British Airways name badge. Therefore, that says to me, that you should be on EXACTLY the same terms as the LHR mob. I think it's about time somebody did something about this.

I also want to say that you have full backing, certainly from myself, and I know most of my colleagues about this situation. Good luck and I hope whatever comes out from this situation benefits the people who deserve it i.e. the Gatwick Cabin Crew.:):):):)

marlowe

8th Dec 2007, 09:08

Sya. totally agree with what you say but the problem LGW has is that BA have a little pet company sat in LCY called BA Cityflyer and its here that BA try out all its new ideas regarding management style and how it wants to deal with unions (ie. ignore them) before unleashing it on mainline.

newbagr

8th Dec 2007, 12:30

If this time nothing happens then we ll never manage to get anything out of this bullying and disrespectful company! If you read the internal forum it looks like a whole base in a grievance mode! How on earth can a base survive with pretty much the whole workforce so unhappy?And all that so they can save some millions(nothing compared to the fines they pay for malpractise) which in the end they pay back in order to get the company out of this mess that they brought themselves....not only we have to fight....but like we have to report to our managers for every little thing that happens ..THEY HAVE TO ANSWER AS WELL FOR THE MESS THEY CAUSED TO 1400 PEOPLE!

flybywire

8th Dec 2007, 12:49

Well said and someone MUST give a whole base some clear answers!!!!! Where the managers are (silence....silence....only silence from the 4th floor....) nobody knows or pretends not to know!!! Nobody is giving any sort of explanation!!

VS-LHRCSA

8th Dec 2007, 15:22

Willie is going to be there next week, so this could be your chance. Perhaps it will come down a decision he makes personally, just like in February.

Remember, he was flight crew himself so there is a degree of empathy. You may not like some of this decisions but he is probably the most down to earth, approachable CEO the company has ever had.

One of the key issues he resolved back in February was the sickness issue. People in management were not aware of the difference between crew sickness and general staff sickness - because they hadn't flown. The company had to back down over this issue because he stepped in personally.

I believe that the man would listen to a well presented "grievence" from a LGW point of view with thought-out suggestions put to him at the forum - without interference from middle-management. I've got a few of my own that's for sure.

flybywire

8th Dec 2007, 20:15

I tend to disagree VS, when he came to LGW the first time, the crew (and ground staff) started asking him questions about why LGW was being let down so much (the worst was yet to happen then) and his reply was simply "Easyjet are recruiting just round the corner".
To me that's not an acceptable response from a CEO.
I do not like little willie, and I cannot wait to see him personally.

The only good thing is that if BA were to shut down LGW, because of our contract, they would have to either pay us to go, or give us another appropriate job within the airline. Which most likely would be fly out of LHR. Not that I would wish that myself, but something that the airline is aware of.

VS-LHRCSA

9th Dec 2007, 04:46

Really? I would have expected better from him.

Mind you, as you say, the worst was yet to happen. I believe that a LGW people are in a position to do some bargaining. The attrition is having a serious financial impact on the company. As a business man he must see that this needs to be addressed in one way or another.

Either they improve terms and conditions or they accept the fact that people will leave after a few months and therefore recruit and hold (if need be) continually, like Virgin do.

Worst coming to worst, LGW could be shut down altogether, as you say. Everyone will be offered LHR, just like WW LGW. With open skies and T5, it could be feasible. What stops them right now, is the slots.

flyin_phil

9th Dec 2007, 10:12

*blueskybird*

for LGW the best places to live are Horley, three bridges and crawley (aka crawley international) :p
otherwise public transport from london is quite expensive even with airline discount. im talking about the gatwick express here, where i currently work until i join BA at LHR next month as ramp agent.
discount on gat exp day return is £10.70.

hope this helps.

p.s do u or anyone know if there is a forum for BA ramp agents? or any company to that matter? cheers

FlyingTom

10th Dec 2007, 10:39

Just to echo Syawriahsitirb. Gatwick flight crew are rightly proud of the Gatwick cabin crew. What I see is hard working yet cheerful crew and we know that it ain't well paid. Also we fly staff travel so we know there is no professional difference between LGW and LHR crew. Likewise for all LGW ground staff.

The difference between our unions is that BALPA ,the pilots union, achieved the same pay deal for both bases, just capped at paypoint 10/16 FO/Cpt and our rostering is Carmen not Bidline. BASSA / CC89 seem to work for the company regarding SFG. But remember that commercially LGW protects those LHR jobs and the revenue that pays them. If we go, Easy expand to full schedule, and our LHR pax head down to Sussex. Then the Long Haul competion ramp up LGW flights to connect, there's plenty of room.

Willie is looking at a collossal bill for the out sourcing of all those LGW flights, it could reach £20M by the time his bonus is reviewed, and will continue into the summer as we take on the GB routes. He is notoriously fierce when questioned though I can't think of a better time to put your case.

You can expect support from the flight crews, we're effectively on strike anyway due to all the lost flights. To snub any rumours we don't get any variable pay if cancelled (unless for a training flight), so it's already hitting us in the wallet.

For anyone thinking of joining SFG it would be a really good offer as long as they increase the pay and deal with the time off between trips. BA is still an excellent company despite the goons who plan IFS.

Good luck :ok:

TheLastSkaHero

10th Dec 2007, 19:57

This is my first post so go easy guys and gals. ;)

Im going to say straight off the bat to all those people that are waiting for a course date or have applied to LGWSF, please do not disheartened by the news at LGW. Im not going to lie and say everything is hunky-dory because it is a very tough time. Because of a cock up in manpower we are running out of hours yes, but with the fuss (rightly so) we have kicked up the end game will result in better working conditions for old and new crew alike (Thats what we are gunning for fiercly).

BA is a good company and LGW is a brilliant base to work from, and because of the number of crew after a while you will start flying with some familiar faces so it does feel like a close knit community (This also means that any rumours tend to get back to base before you do so behave ;)) I have worked for LGWSF for around 2 years now and I am really enjoying it, the routes are brilliant and the crew are brilliant :ok:

Dont let the talk put you off as BA is a great company to start out with, whether you want to stay or go else where its somthing to be proud of to have that on your CV.

All the best guys and gals.

x

newbagr

10th Dec 2007, 21:29

welcome to the forum:-) Can i ask though how exactly you think that BA will agree to improve our very poor working conditions?
I think the company have ignored all warnings for the current disaster we all go through and even now they choose to accept the problem and resolve it! They are greedy and thats how they got us into this mess, as if they had given us 3 days off after longhaul, had discussed transfer agreements and maybe give us a couple of p's an hour more then they wouldnt have to pay 1million pounds to wet lease per aircraft! But thats how BA is....they dont care what they do because noone ever takes the implications of their actions....its only us who have to live with the consequences!

TheLastSkaHero

10th Dec 2007, 22:45

Moonchild and Blueskybird your more than welcome, and im looking forward to seeing some new faces around our little base. Moans and groans are part of life in the airline and its no different else where. With new shorthaul routes coming in next year, and providing this absolute balls-up with ManPower can be resolved asap LGWSF looks set for a nice bit of expansion.

Blueskybird Im glad you will be joining a union when you join as we need all the help we can get at the moment. The situation is critical but fingers crossed we can pull though it as one, and slowly start enstowing trust in the company again, although up until now it feels like we have been :ugh: over and over again.

We arent expecting a mircale any time soon, or to wake up the next day and realise its been all a horrible dream, this will be a drawn out procedure which will take its time, but like ive said aslong as we all join the unions and make our voices heard, an follow all routes nessesscery to make sure we are treated fairly things will start to slowly improve. With LHR WW and EF making some noise about our cause aswell, we will get their attention come hell or high water!!

Best of luck everyone and if you want to know anything then give me a shout and im sure NewBAgr wouldnt mind answering a few questions either.

Rob x

PS

As for your question regarding transfers to LHR WW, at the moment we dont have a set time period/number of crew to be moved up the road. I believe the old agreement meant you would wait around 2-4 years and then you would move, but at the moment people have waited for around 7 years (they left last month). At the moment, on the rare occasion that there is a movement of crew, we are offered LHR EF and not LHR WW. Once you have been there a few years you are then offered WW.

TightSlot

11th Dec 2007, 19:46

Several posts deleted today. This thread is for those employed by BA as Cabin Crew only - the BA wannabees thread is available for those wishing to apply, in the process of applying, have just applied or are being trained - in fact anybody who is not employed by BA as Cabin Crew.

the letter

13th Dec 2007, 15:46

When do you get access to hotline tickets? Is it when you begin training or once you finish training and have actually begun flying?

b77

20th Dec 2007, 14:13

you can buy hotline ticket as soon as u get your ess access. if you want to use yout ID 90/80 you'll have to wait 6 months. hope this help

b77

20th Dec 2007, 14:16

I just spoke to Scheduling, the rosters are coming out tonight 20-12-07 after 9pm

Flower Duet.

20th Dec 2007, 19:13

Hi ,
If i have a night stop between 4/6 Sectors etc..
When do I check my luggage in ?

Thanks :confused:

VS-LHRCSA

20th Dec 2007, 19:41

I don't think you do. We certainly didn't when I was on EF, except on the 737, which I managed to dodge.

Basically, WW crew will arrive at the report centre and check their bags in there. They are loaded onto the same sealed bus that you will take to the aircaft. You wouldn't see them until arrivals. Shouldn't be too different if you need to do it on EF.

Mind you, the process may change with T5. Best to wait and see.

Flower Duet.

20th Dec 2007, 19:55

I'm Gatwick Fleet ,

Thanks for Help.

jetset lady

20th Dec 2007, 20:10

Flower Duet

I would suggest you always check bag in for 1st sector. For example, if you have a LGW-GVA-LGW-AMS night stopping in AMS, check your bag in for the GVA and put a link label on it. That way, if something goes wrong on the GVA, ie a tech stop, you have your bag with you. You may also end up in the situation where your GVA runs late and you miss the AMS nightstop. Technically, your bag shouldn't be loaded onto the AMS aircraft, but this doesn't always work in practice leaving you stuck trying to get your bag back.

Hope that makes sense! If in doubt, there is usually crew milling around Jubilee House that will be happy to help with any questions you may have.

jsl

airbus777

21st Dec 2007, 07:19

am at EF LHR and we cannot check in any bags to the hold,you keep your wheelie and cabin bag with you for the whole trip taking it from aircraft to aircraft.on WW LHR you check your suitcase in at compass where it is weighed etc.........i think its the same at LGW when you do the shorthaul you cannot put bags in the hold.....

VS-LHRCSA

21st Dec 2007, 07:59

I was always under the impression that on the 737, crew HAD to check their wheelies into the hold due to the lack of stowage space.

I remember seeing EOG crews with "Link Transfer" tags.

airbus777

21st Dec 2007, 08:56

thanks vs for making that clear,never did shorthaul at LGW so wasnt too sure,if we put our wheelies in the hold at LHR you can be sure you would never see them again !!!!

BABOBO

21st Dec 2007, 16:19

I am LGW crew and yes..... we do check our bags in for shorthaul (B737). As mentioned before, you are advised to check in your bag for your first sector of the day. The only way you could take your bag onboard is if you don't have any liquids and the size of your bag complies with the BA rules for handbagage! Hope this helps!

Flower Duet.

22nd Dec 2007, 15:40

Hi Everyone,
Thanks for info ,just one more thing when I leave the crew
on the plane as they have a few sectors to complete.

How do I get back to Jubilee House as last night I had to go through Passport Control as even the BA Ground crew had no idea. and what are the procedures if I'm joining a crew ?

Kind Regards

VS-LHRCSA

22nd Dec 2007, 15:49

If it's a "walking stand" you just come out of the jetbridge into the arrivals concourse. Follow it until about halfway and there is a door to the left that you need to swipe your ID through. Then take the lift down. Walk straight out, around the corner, through the double doors and you are back in JH.

If it's a remote stand, the despatcher should arrange crew transport for you, which will drop you off right outside the double doors.

By rights, you should never have been put in that position in the first place. No one should expect you to know where to go so early on. The reason the ground staff didn't know what to do, is because crew are not allowed to go through passenger passport control and customs, unless you are commuting or deadheading.

If you're joining a crew and it's a "walking stand", just go through security in JH and follow the pier out past the briefing rooms, through the double doors (swipe your ID) and into the departures concourse. Then just procede to your gate. The agents should let you onto the aircraft.

If it's a remote stand, ops will arrange for transport for you and will tell you what bus bay to go to. Go through security and take the lift down to the buses, easy.

Flower Duet.

2nd Jan 2008, 12:20

Hi,
Does anyone know how I can access the BA Forum on the Intranet ?
as it does not show up in my short cuts. I don't know if I have to be with the company a longer then 6 months
or the person who activated my ID didn't put down all my options.

And thank you VS-LHRCSA for the last info .

DC-10

2nd Jan 2008, 16:42

I can't access the forum on ESS either and it has been a long and boring saga so far. Every time I log it as a fault I get the message back that I can access it even though I can't. Makes no difference whether I am at home or at Jubilee - it doesn't even appear in my shortcuts.

I have done over 6 months so that doesn't make a difference. There are apparantly loads of people who can't access it.

the letter

2nd Jan 2008, 18:37

Does anyone know when we will get our roster for February?

Flower Duet.

2nd Jan 2008, 19:23

17th of Jan .

b77

3rd Jan 2008, 21:17

Flower Duet where did you get the info?

I'm more then sure the rosters will be published on 21st, i wish they publish them on 17th.

Flower Duet.

4th Jan 2008, 15:38

Sorry, me think that I was wrong ...
:p

The Moo

9th Jan 2008, 12:46

Suprised at no thread on here ?

EGHI

9th Jan 2008, 13:41

I'm fairly sure (certainly at LGW) that they are published on the 17th of this month.

:)

pollymagou

9th Jan 2008, 16:02

So what's happening? Is it a taboo subject?

Terminal 5

9th Jan 2008, 19:39

I really hope not, do BASSA / BALPA (Possible Lauren dispute) really want to screw BA over?? I suspect BALPA will have more sense in the end though.

I for one, along with most people at BA, would like a bonus this year, any strikes, or threat of them, will kill that. Look at the bigger picture, Open Skies is coming and if that is a success don't give the excuse to take work out of mainline in to that, if the unions cause BA grief then I am sure that could happen easily.

Hand Solo

9th Jan 2008, 22:13

I think you are putting the cart before the horse T5. If the inspiringly named 'Open skies 'goes ahead it is taking work out of mainline. BALPA have not objected to the airline starting, they simply want all the pilots on the BA master seniority list. If BA had no intention of taking work out of mainline then why would they object to such a zero cost option?

Sadly it looks like BA managements beligerence is pushing the airline to yet more industrial action, which could all so easily be avoided. Looks like none of us will be getting our huge 2% bonusses at this rate.

alfamatt

9th Jan 2008, 22:29

We're not quite at the "strike" stage yet. The announcement of the impending ballot is for industrial action, which may, or not include the ultimate sanction of strikes.
It is indeed all about the promises from BA management, made approx 1 year ago to head off the strike, relating to implementing what had already been agreed. The management has reneged on these promises.
There are no new issues or pay demands being forwarded by the union.
Other elements may well have a bearing, eg the open skies/project lauren.
I, along with pretty much all c. crew would also enjoy getting the profit-share type bonus. It would also be an indication that the company is in a strong financial position, which again, benefits all employees.
But unfortunately, this cannot be had at any price.
I sincerely hope that the management can get around the table to sort out these issues PDQ. After all, it was them who said they would. Not much sign of it so far though. They've had a year, how much more time do they need?
In a year when BA should be proudly talking about T5, & how good it should be for our customers, it may well be that the headlines are focussed on yet more negativity, solely brought on by our management.
What a shame.