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The Butcher's Dog
8th Aug 2007, 12:18
Can anyone shed light on the adverse affects or otherwise of ice being removed (?) from the wings with boiling water prior to departure, ice would be frozen dew at up to -10C. Light turbine (5700kg). Thanks

Empty Cruise
8th Aug 2007, 13:07
Well, if the stuff re-freezes, you're not exactly better off, are you? :} Would primarily depend upon ambient temperature and relative humidity, though - and remember that the water goes a lot of interesting places you cannot readily inspect, i.e. control cable housings etc. etc.

OTOH, as long as no other precipitation is falling, it should be relatively safe. Suggest you have a go and then inspect thoroughly, say, 20 min. after application.

chksix
8th Aug 2007, 13:18
Any reports on the new deicing facility at ENGM Gardemoen Norway?

Has it been a success? Very environmentally friendly anyway.

Mad (Flt) Scientist
8th Aug 2007, 16:28
Well, if the stuff re-freezes, you're not exactly better off, are you?
CRJ700 (and I think our other products) advice use of hot water (nozzle temp 60 degC or greater) for deicing only for temperatures of -3degC or greater. So if you're talking of temps down to -10degC we would NOT recommend use of water alone as a deicing agent.

We also do not recommend use of hot water as part of a 'one step' process - it's only recommended as the de-icing step of the two-part process, where the second step is application of anti-ice fluid. The guidance suggests that the second step be applied before the first stage refreezes, and warns that this may be as short a time as 3 minutes.

Based on that, I'd say that hot water alone is probably worse than leaving the frost there - though that doesn't make either of those a good idea.

usual caveats about your OEM's advice, and local regs, of course.

The Bartender
8th Aug 2007, 23:29
Has it been a success?

No... As i understand it, it will not be used anymore...:ouch:


As for the topic, as a de-icing sprayer, coordinator, and instructor the last 8 years, i agree with the Mad (Flt) Scientist.
Pouring hot water on the wings is like pissing in your pants. You'll get warm, but not for long, and then you'll be worse off than where you started off..

If DIY de-icing really is your thing, you should at least get some de-icing fluid to mix with the hot water, at a proper ratio...

ACMS
10th Aug 2007, 03:50
Hot Water??????????????????? mmmm

If you can't use proper de-ice anti-ice procedures then I suggest you try a broom to sweep it off? might not work with ice but it should with snow.

Otherwise don't depart with any snow, frost, ice on the upper surface of the wings including flight controls etc etc.........

Beeline
11th Aug 2007, 19:52
Hi BD, try the association of european airlines website www.aea.be (http://www.aea.be). The document deicing/anticing procedures maybe for the the big jets but are standard practice. Really useful document, used it when researching into techniques.....dont ask!! :ugh:

Dream Land
11th Aug 2007, 23:58
Hot water, no, warm hanger yes :ok:. I know that wasn't your question, in all cases, be very careful.

Dan Winterland
12th Aug 2007, 00:55
Even a warm hangar can be dangerous. The RAF used to have an Andover (HS748) based in Norway. They found that if you took the warm aircraft out of the hangar and there was still precipitation, the snow used to melt to the airframe giving clear ice and a bigger problem. The trick was to open the hangar doors an our before removing the aircraft thus keeping it clear of snow and ice, but cooling it to ambient.

Dream Land
12th Aug 2007, 04:19
The trick was to open the hangar doors an our before removing the aircraft thus keeping it clear of snow and ice, but cooling it to ambient. That makes sense. :ok:

AirRabbit
12th Aug 2007, 18:19
CRJ700 (and I think our other products) advice use of hot water (nozzle temp 60 degC or greater) for deicing only for temperatures of -3degC or greater. So if you're talking of temps down to -10degC we would NOT recommend use of water alone as a deicing agent.
We also do not recommend use of hot water as part of a 'one step' process - it's only recommended as the de-icing step of the two-part process, where the second step is application of anti-ice fluid. The guidance suggests that the second step be applied before the first stage refreezes, and warns that this may be as short a time as 3 minutes.
Based on that, I'd say that hot water alone is probably worse than leaving the frost there - though that doesn't make either of those a good idea.
usual caveats about your OEM's advice, and local regs, of course.
ALL of what you said is well said, sir!