Side Slipping C172

[flyingstudent]

Hi, new to the forum but got a question.
Im currently doing my PPL and im on circuits. Im due to go up on my own tomorrow for my first set of ciruits alone. My instructor wants me to practice comming in very high on finals and side slipping the aircraft to get it in. He has demonstrated this to me but each time he attempts it, i can see him having difficulty getting the aircraft undercontrol (my stomach has yelped out a few times) and he goes quiet. I know in the manual it states not to sideslip the aircraft and i have raised the issue with him, but he said there only guide lines as to protect the company "if a little c150 can do it anything can", i would just like some advice as to the easiest way to regain control so close to the ground when completing this as my instructors method doesnt seem comfortable and im certainley worried about this prior to tommorow. Thanks.....If im just been a over cautious and a wuss just say.:confused:

[Cumulogranite]

I have side-slipped a 172 on finals and it is no big deal really. Indeed, in the good old days, that was the only way to get a Tiger Moth down at all(so I'm told)

However, as you are deliberatly putting the aircraft out of balance the feeling is quite disconcerting and extremely uncomfortable. The trick it to anticipate things a little earlier. Remeber that you don't want the aircraft to take you somewhere your brain wasn't 5 minutes ago. So don't try and side slip down to 20 feet. Draw the line at maybee 150-200 feet. Give it time to stabilise before touchdown. This means entering the side slip earlier and coming out of it earlier. Be sure that you can make a good safe ordinary landing. If you are not comfotable that all is well by 300 - 200 feet then a go around is sensible. Remeber, no-one ever colided with the sky!!!

[Lister Noble]

If you don't feel happy, ask the instructor to do some more dual sidelip instruction with you,
Lister:)

[DeeCee]

Personally I am not happy with this at all. Firstly, if the POH says not to do it, then don't do it. Also, side-slipping an aeroplane is no substitute for a well set up approach, and this is what you should be taught first.

I believe that the issue with a high tail Cessna is that the elevator will be partially blanked off by the flaps, which is not ideal when you are low and slow on approach.

What is good for one aeroplane is not necessarily good for another. Take some other advice at the club first.

[SkyHawk-N]

Ah that old chestnut, much has been written and said about side-slipping 172s.

I believe the sideslip restriction is for 172s with 40 degree flaps (like mine) as when set they can blank the elevator. Below the 40 degree setting is ok. For those 172s with max. 30 degree flaps I believe there is a warning to avoid sideslipping due to the risk of elevator blanking.

Can anyone confirm my understanding on this?

[S-Works]

I have sideslipped Cessnas for a couple of thousand hours and not fallen out the Sky. My Hawk XP recommend not slipping with a lot of flap out as it can give unnerving oscillations on the controls but other than that is perfectly safe.

I would suspect your Instructor sounds like he needs further training himself if he is not able to demonstrate it properly. Send him my way and I will have a go at showing him that a 172 will slide slip very smoothly and gracefully!!

[trafficcontrol]

From my personal experience C172's arn't particularly good at side slipping. At the end of the day, there is nothing like a beautiful approach. I'd rather reposition, go-around and try again if i were too high. Failing that, cut all power full flaps, 172's soon come down like a stone :P

PA28's on the other hand, are great at sideslipping!!

Its a good skill to practice and know just like stalling and PFL's but i wouldnt want to ever really have to use them for real.

Would mean somewhere along the line, i cocked up...and cocking up i just can't handle!

:D

[FullyFlapped]

Errrmmm ... guys ... this is his first post, he just joined today, and he reckons that on his first solo circuit his instructor wants him to side-slip it in from a great height ?

More troll, anyone ?

:mad::mad::mad::=:=:=:=

FF :ok:

[SkyHawk-N]

Errrmmm ... guys ... this is his first post, he just joined today, and he reckons that on his first solo circuit his instructor wants him to side-slip it in from a great height ?

More troll, anyone ?

There's bugger all else to talk about on here so why not bite? ;)

[FullyFlapped]

There's bugger all else to talk about on here so why not bite?
Amen, brother ! :D:D:D

FF :ok:

[Heliplane]

Perhaps it's a difference in lingo but surely you're talking about a "forward slip" (used to get the plane down quickly without gaining much speed) as opposed to a "side slip" (aka the wing down method for countering the effects of a crosswind).

If you are at all unsure, practice slips with your instructor as much as possible (perhaps from 3,000 to 2,000 and then, when comfortable, closer to the ground). Don't do anything solo unless you are very confident of the situation. If your instructor is not teaching them effectively, have a flight with another instructor (this is good to do anyway from time to time as all instructors have a different approach and might impart knowledge in some areas more effectively than in others).

In a 172, perhaps one of the most effective ways of getting out of a slip is simply to release pressure on all of the controls. Assuming you are roughly trimmed for the attitude you want, the plane should recover pretty normally.

If you're solo and find yourself too high and are not 100% comfortable with slipping, keep it simple and go around. Sometimes it can be a bit unerving judging height when approaching a strange airport or when doing a strange circuit at home.

[modelman]

I'm a low hours PPL and the OP's comments scare me somewhat.It would appear if what he is saying is true,his instructor is asking him to do something he can't manage himself very well-all very suspect.
I certainly couldn't have coped with this that early in my training ( not an authority on it now either).Perehaps he is alluding to the wing down xwind approach method (something else I haven't mastered yet)

Needs to clear this up before he flies again IMHO.

MM

[Gertrude the Wombat]

If the student does not have confidence in the instructor then that sounds like a problem to me, way beyond any issue with any particular individual thing you might want to do with the aircraft. And, an instructor telling the student to ignore something in the POH, whatever it is, doesn't sound too clever either.

(Too high on approach in a 172? In the ones I fly just point the nose straight down and hang it on the flaps, it won't speed up to beyond the flap limiting speed, no worries about out-of-balance flight near the ground. That's if you really want to play silly b****rs of course - a go-around is the more obvious first choice.)

[sycamore]

Just put the parking brake on ,guys and RTFQ!
If the POH says don`t, then Dont ! If you do and f%$£ -up your insurance will be invalid ; and this `lad` is about to go off on an early solo sortie.
If, and taken at face value, his instructor cannot demonstrate a manoeuvre adequately/competently,and says such things as `it`ll be alright,if a 150 can do it,this can`, then a change of instructor,and/or club should be considered.
Why does the POH SAY YOU CAN`T? Possibly , because at different CofG`s you may get a pitch-up, or a pitch-down,, you may be overstressing the fin, you may get fin stall,flick,spin, crash, burn, die...!
If he`s trolling, then the message is still the same. Do it in an a/c that is so cleared,and when it has been demonstated adequately........Syc

[Leezyjet]

I was always told never side slip a Cessna with the flaps down, as there is a possibility of one of the flaps being ripped off, and the a/c entering a spin due to the sudden change in lift between the wings - if that happens at low altitude.......:eek:

:\

[Phil73805]

Hi all, if I may add my two pence :)
To my mind, twisted though it may be, if I'm high all the way down the approach doesn't good airmanship dictate that I avail myself of the humble go-around? It may make you feel like a nonce but I'd rather feel like a nonce then have the good airfield maintenance boys n girls remove my remains from the runway with a spatula.

As for the instructor wanting you to try sideslipping on your first solo, I cannot begin to express how ludicrous this is! That he can't demonstrate it effectively is almost beside the point, your first solo is about demonstrating to yourself your hard earned competence while also leaving you with a sense that there is more to learn, it is not about experimenting with a technique that you haven't been able to do yet!

To me the sideslip is useful arrow in the quiver for glide approaches or practise (or not) forced landings to enable you to make the field in a last ditch situation. You should make the effort to learn it but there is ample time later in your training. Otherwise go-around and try again. The unique balance of wind, turbulence etc. will never again occur in exactly the same way. Going around gives you a chance to try again under different circumstances.

I hope this is of some help. The best of luck with your training.

Phil

[flybymike]

Sideslipping high wing cessnas with flaps deployed has always been a contentious issue. Some POH's prohibit it, some do not recommend it and some like my 206 POH do not mention the subject at all.There is no doubt at all that a 172 will snap/flick with no warning whatsoever if stalled whilst unbalanced with flaps set, particularly full flap. And elevator and fin blanking has always been an issue. However provided you watch the airspeed, in my view it is still a valid and useful tool no matter what the aircraft

[Final 3 Greens]

Is slipping in the PPL syllabus?

When I did mine, crossed controls were verboten IIRC.

[BeechNut]

My Sundowner has a 30 second slip restriction in the POH to avoid uporting the fuel tanks.

That said, a well-executed approach should not require a forward slip. However when executing a forced approach, it is necessary to come in a little high on final...better to hit the far fence at low speed than the near fence at high speed. Therefore coming in high, then dropping down in a forward slip once you are assured of making the field, is an acceptable technique.

Of course it is a manoeuver that should best be practised in controlled conditions. And any POH restrictions should be adhered to.

Forward slips were certainly part of my PPL syllabus and flight test many years ago.

Beech

[barit1]

In a 172 with full flaps down, I can't believe there's much practical necessity for slipping - even when practicing forced landings. But it's been a looooong time...

But if you have electric flaps, and the fuse blows at an inopportune moment, it's certainly good to have slips in your repertoire. A good confidence-building maneuvre might be to start at 3000', do a left slip for 10 sec., then roll into a right slip for 10 sec., then back to the left, ... Before long you'll be pretty comfortable at it, and develop some precision in holding heading and recovering at a desired altitude.

I've slipped a flapless taildragger down to about 10 feet when landing over an obstacle; once you're comfortable with the maneuver you are better able to handle unusual situations.

[dmjw01]

It never ceases to amaze me how much utter claptrap is spoken about this subject. Flaps being "ripped off"? Perlease....

There is only one correct answer to this: Look in the POH for your specific aircraft (not just any old 172's POH or one of the generic "pilot's guides"). Obey the limitations according to the actual words in there, not some rubbish that somebody once told you, or something you read on the internet somewhere. And don't exaggerate what it says in the POH.

Typically, the POH of some 172s specifies that you must not slip with full flaps (but check the wording in your specific POH).

This has, somehow, been twisted and distorted into:

Do not slip a 172 with any flap
Do not slip any 172 at all
Do not slip any high-wing Cessna
Just to be on the safe side, don't slip any aeroplane.
If you do, the flaps will fall off and your willy will turn green
etc...
etc...

[Final 3 Greens]

If you do, the flaps will fall off and your willy will turn green

You mean it isn't true?????? :eek::eek::eek::eek:

[SkyHawk-N]

This has, somehow, been twisted and distorted into:

Do not slip a 172 with any flap
Do not slip any 172 at all
Do not slip any high-wing Cessna
Just to be on the safe side, don't slip any aeroplane.
If you do, the flaps will fall off and your willy will turn green
etc...
etc...

I think the confusion is created by Cessna 172 POHs and placards stating things like "AVOID SLIPS WITH FLAPS EXTENDED". In other POHs I have seen it they state "AVOID SLIPS WITH FLAPS SETTINGS GREATER THAN 20 DEGREES", etc. People read "Avoid" as "don't", it's just Cessna playing safe as they were subject of a law suit years ago.

[SkyHawk-N]

Final 3 Greens Said:
If you do, the flaps will fall off and your willy will turn green
You mean it isn't true??????

Does this have something to do with your PPRuNe Id?

[Final 3 Greens]

Are you implying that I have 3 you know whats?

[SkyHawk-N]

Are you implying that I have 3 you know whats?
No, it's just you took an unhealthy interest in things turning green and I wondered why ;)

[Unusual Attitude]

I've also had this conversation with numerous instructors over the years and had very much different responses each time.

If I had an engine failure and needed to sideslip with 40 flap (would be dropping like a brick granted!) to make the only suitable field nearby then I'd do it regardless of what the POH says. I've tried this in my 172 with 40 flap at altitude and the only unusual effect I noticed was buffeting of the tailplane which could be confused with pre-stall buffet.
This was also what was explained to me by a very experienced instructor who said not to worry too much about it and that Cessna were just covering their backside, really cant see it flicking or flipping into a spin unless your being a real plonker on the controls however.
As for a normal approach, if you've got 40 flaps out and still need to sideslip then you really should be thinking about throwing it away and going around....

As for having problems sideslipping, I had a case years ago on my CPL course in a C172 where I just could not get the aircraft to sideslip properly. On the next pre-flight I paid particular attention to the rudder and sure enough I could waggle the rudder freely back and forth to nearly 1/3 deflection each way !