Easyjet Strike?

[Dogma]

Whats with the Easyjet strike ballot?

Are the pilots prepared to take this one to the picket line?:ouch:

[PPRuNeUser0178]

yes:ugh::}

[outofsynch]

you bet! :D

[orangetree]

count on it :mad:

[Mooney12]

Easyjet strike - why?

[GM01]

didn't you all get a pay rise not so long ago and more days off?? do you all want to drive this company to the ground...........

[FliegerTiger]

Troll Troll Troll Troll Troll........:ugh:

[Oleo]

:\
No, we just want fair market rate compensation for our trade, given the very healthy state of the companies profits and the consequent obscenely huge bonuses for all the managers riding on the backs of the very high productivity of our crews.

As someone said, we didn't just come down the river riding on the latest bubble. :=

[IcePack]

GM01 No but until aviation starts to treat Pilots & Cabin Crew and Engineers like human beings Employees will fight for their terms & conditions.
IMHO there is a cartel within the UK that is trying to drive crews salaries down into the gutter.
Lets keep the pressure on until somebody wakes up.
Before anyone jumps down my neck about being human. Why is it that it is deemed OK for Pilots to land an aircraft after being up(awake) for20 hrs and then drive home,(stby + duty) whereas a lorry driver would be charged by the police. Or position somewhere then operate e.g. Position in the back economy seating to banjul then immediatly jump in the cockpit and operate back. Most crew have seen all of this and more.
We deserve proper pay and conditions just like everybody else. Oh & if I make a mistake I can't just tear it up and throw it in the bin and start again!

[Speevy]

From the outside it looks that we just had a rise so we should be quite, the reality is that the last 4% was worth nothing when the RBI as been close to 4.5% in the last 12 months.
Then all we wanted was to have an improved package with more benefits.
We are asking better pensions (probably the worse in the industry), LOL, life insurance, sick pay etc...
Are we asking too much?
If you want to fly 350 a/C around europe you don't thing we should get a very competitive package?
Our is only good on surface, if you go deep it's just not good enough!
The problem is that so far pilots consider U2 just a step for their carreer not a long term prospect (thats' why we have so ****ty benefits) do we want to change it?
The company says yeas! so what we have to improve?
Just read above and you get your answer!!!
Speevy

[Iva harden]

Hurrah.....at last, I am glad you guys on threatening a strike, if your T&C's improve then everybody else will have to follow suit. When Easy became the dominant force in the market all T&C's were dumbed down with cost cutting hence salaries have suffered. You will have huge support from all the pilot community, it is about time we were paid a fair salary to compensate us for working very hard at very unsociable times of the day and night. Beat the management into submission and do not listen to all the spin that flies around it is all B....s..t! It makes it worse that the management are freeloading and getting huge reward for pushing bits of paper around!! You must stick together and send a message in no uncertain terms. For all the low houred guys who are keen to get on...try not to be tempted to side with the company because in years to come you will regret it. It is about time the pilot profession was reinstated as such. Too much dumbing down in this country.:ok:

[rubik101]

Banjul? Easyjet fly to Banjul now?
You think easyJet is even close to being the worst in the industry? Dream on.

[bia botal]

power to you guys, i only wish that we on the other side of the irish sea could get that well organished. I totally agree with the right to strike, if complaints to managerment about terms and conditions are fulling on deaf ears in the hope that you will go away, then it is fair enough that a ballot to strike gets held, sure it is then down to the company is it not, whether the strike goes ahead.

[CamelhAir]

Best of luck lads and ladies. I salute your cojones and I can only hope that your stance might cause the apathetic muppets in ryanair to consider their position.

[toratoratora]

Nobody said it was the worst company- it isn't,by a long shot. But it is extremely profitable, and we seek a reasonable share of that bounty to reflect our part in that.The flying is the easy bit (no pun,etc.)-the hard bit is the turnrounds with minimal support from mgt to achieve OTP-loads of c*** on paper,but no faces on the ramp kicking butt.....sound familiar?

[Dogma]

Good luck - you Guys and Girls at easyJet really do work hard and get "its legal" from the company too often.

"More respect and better T+C's":ok:

[Iva harden]

I wonder if a majority of airline company councils ( BALPA/IPA ) could join forces in a common assault on general T&C's within the industry and perhaps go for a mass walkout/ threat of strike action. As we all know, we are working a lot harder for less money, law of diminishing returns!! The situation is unlikely to improve unless we do something a little more extreme?:ok: It is time to stand up to be counted.

[Sphinx]

Monarch pilots are very close to a strike for similar reasons to those described above. We are trying to get our pay and conditions UP to the level of easyJet's current condiditons!!

Not saying you easy people shouldn't fight for a decent pay and lifestyle package, just reinforcing the view that nost UK companies have been making money and expanding on the basis of stiffling pilot pay and conditions over the last few years. In fact Monarch's Managing Director said precisely that to the Company Council at the start of present negotiations - how to p*ss off a workforce in one easy step!

All pilot workforces should be prepared to face down management over the coming year as we've reached a pivotal point in this industry. Either we take some of the power back or we sign on for decreasing T's and C's for the rest of our careers. That means facing down management no matter how long it takes!

[Kraut]

I know from Europe, that once a year most airline chiefpilots (FBL) had a meeting at a nice, decent place. Talking about a lot of issues.
The same happened with tour operators.

Maybe there is a "combined acknowledgment" between some british airline managements to counter the attempt of pilots to improve their needs in a pilot shortage period?

Would not be surprised!

[Speevy]

Remember, if we don't stick together now and we will pay the conseguences in the future...

No lifestyle improvement, maybe the company will decide that to keep the cost low is better to go 5254 (this one is coming from somebody in LTN)..
Then we will forget any RBI for 2008 and so on...
Local contracts for every base (which means some European bases will be overcrewed and cheaper workforce will be used in UK)
Balpa will loose power and T&C will go down

Stick together now and when the next low in the industry will come we will be prepared!
Speevy

[Iva harden]

You must all stick together and when it comes to a ballot for those in favour of industrial action if required, you must vote for it in order to send a very positive message to management. Management are either very thick skinned or just very thick as they like to play hard ball to show everyone who is boss, however, bad publicity, due to possible industrial action could affect bookings and management are convinced that us pilots will cave in before. The threat of industrial action is usually enough to make them think. Never accept the first/second offer as there is always a bottom line that they set in desperation.:=

[babemagnet]

I am sure you guys don't have the guts to go on strike!

[electricdeathjet]

Strike in this British Summer????

Remember your brollies and wellies!!

[unablereqnavperf]

Clearly a well thought out strike this just as the summer starts to wind down!

[ICING AOA]

such a strike would have a terrible impact on easyJet expansion :ouch:

[felixthecat]

OMG....Give it another 5 years and you will be down to the Ryanair conditions!!...At least you guys and gals have the balls to stand up for yourselves and fight, good for you :) Our lot are so eager to climb the greasy pole that they tread on everyone beneath them much to Leo Hairy Camels amusment Im sure!

[MorningGlory]

I'm so glad i'm getting out of low cost. Having said that, if you get your way easy will be a great place to be.

Best of luck, and well done for having the balls!

MG :ok:

[whatdoesthisbuttondo]

I thought Easy's T and C's were well regarded by the pilots. They certainly have been improving and all pilots knew the score when they joined.What can they strike about it's not like things have been changing for the worse?


Is this thread just someone having a laugh?

[outofsynch]

What about just keeping up with inflation, and interest rate rises?

[Donnie Brascoe]

identify a working body or an airline or a public sector body that has had a payrise that keeps a salary up with RPI .. you will be hard prsseed

[UP and Down Operator]

I thought Easy's T and C's were well regarded by the pilots. They certainly have been improving and all pilots knew the score when they joined.What can they strike about it's not like things have been changing for the worse?

Is this thread just someone having a laugh?

You obviously don't know anything about EZY life. Things are changing to the better all the time on the outside, and mostly on the inside as well, but it doesn't help to get shiny new planes and better rosters if you don't have money to by food when you get home to the Miss's. Lifestyle-wise EZY is probably becoming one of the better places to be, but with the new salary proposal from the company versus inflation we are talking a salary reduction with likewise decrease in a pension that is already too low.

The argument that "it is better than many other places" is :mad::mad::mad:.

And pilots knew the score when they joined Well with that attitude you can join somewhere else than here pal :ugh:

It is about what is right for the future, not about who is best to work for, and how things "used to be"!!!

Anyway, there are some good brains in EZY management, so hopefully they will realise that it is cheeper to give us what is reasonable then having us all sit on the ground for a couple of days trying to score one of the sweet honeys from the galley :ok:

[orangedriver]

Common guys!

Our pay is only keeping up with other UK operators (Thomson, First Choice, GB, BMI etc) for the first 3-5 years. Then most outfits starts rewarding their crew for loyalty.

We have a pension that is nothing short of a joke.

At the moment its estimated that ezy has a cash reserve of around £1 billion. Over the past years we have delivered record profits. In the coming 18-24 months we are expected to deliver even higher profits.

Why should we not push to improve our T&Cs, to build a career airline giving us a share in the success of the company that WE have created?

Don´t forget that when times get tougher the company will turn around and push our T&Cs towards a record low. Now is the time to show that we are standing up together, united against the company!

If we fail to show unity now, we will soon be looking towards RYR T&Cs full of envy!:mad::uhoh:

[ICING AOA]

If we fail to show unity now, we will soon be looking towards RYR T&Cs full of envy!:mad::uhoh:

who knows ! MOL is expected to leave Ryanair in a year or 2, perhaps the management will improve T and Cs and RYR can become the very best place to be ! :hmm:
Remember, 5 years ago nobody wanted to work for easyJet, and look at how things have changed ! what about Ryanair in 2010 ?!...

[Bokkenrijder]

Remember, 5 years ago nobody wanted to work for easyJet, and look at how things have changed ! Really? Just look at the current pay talks and the contract/tax problems with the continental bases, and you wouldn't be able to spot the difference between whether a guy named Ray or a guy named Andy is in charge... :hmm:

[Iva harden]

T&C's for pilots generally are very poor for the work that we do. They have been eroded year on year down to the lowest common denominator. It is time that we ALL stood our ground and started making the powers that be listen. I understand there is unrest at Monarch as well as GB recently. Pay needs to increase and stay ahead of inflation. Maybe it is time to leave flying and look for something else.:D

[Skylion]

If you go looking for something else then you really will discover the facts of life...............................

[Iva harden]

skylion.... thanks for the lesson in life. I have a number of businesses outside of flying and was hinting that perhaps my time would be best spent elsewhere. I think I have discovered quite a few facts of life,but thanks for the concern.:ok:

[10002level]

Strangely the BALPA cc have decided to recommend an offer which is virtually identical to the one which was to be balloted upon for industrial action.

I am confused.

[Kraut]

Reading the Newsletter, observe the following, especially the first part. At least my "interpretation"!

"We have secured the best possible settlement without resort to industrial action /which would be damaging to both sides and put other important issues at risk. /

[springbok449]

Maybe your CC have been offered some back handers to push the deal through and recommend it to the workforce...after all it happened once before in 2001.

Good luck guys.

[Bokkenrijder]

Amazing that this is the best we can get in a red-hot pilot market... :confused:

Next on the agenda: local contracts for EU bases?

[High_Altitud]

this is the end of Balpa in Easyjet, the management showed a much stronger position and from now on everything will be harder...

About local contracts, this is the reason why the CC has pushed for collective bargain in any bases....
The future???

P.S. want to get an extra 1%???

[Yabaduu]

Well it looks that BALPA has not only lost the negotiation deal for the UK, but it appears that the have had to let MAD go to achieve what they got.:}
And all that with the full support of their members.:confused:
I thought we were going for a strike to achieve what we wanted.:ouch:

[Kraut]

Let´s wait for the ballot about this "offer". Then it will be clear where we are going!

The hint to gain 1% is one of cheapest hints which will lead to nothing at the end!

[chec tunset]

Crap deal but I sense there is more to this. Could the CC be claiming the moral high ground by balloting members with the reasonable degree of certainty that the result will be no? Would this not leave them in a stronger position after the ballot? Failing that they have either misjudged the feelings of their membership or realise that when the red letter day arrives maybe all the supermillitants will not actually have the bottle to strike. Who knows but stay tuned for another thrilling installment of notreallyeasyatallJet.com :ugh:

[albertoli]

I hear that the pay and conditions at ezy are good, I dream of a 5/3/5/4 and a stable roster.

Instead of striking if you really do not like the company then perhaps you should leave. From what I hear there would not be any shortage of replacements.

[hapzim]

Say NO to the latest offer, YES to IA and the cc will have to go back to management with a stronger mandate. Just because they put a recommend on it does not mean it's a done deal. Now is the time to bring T&C's towards what they should be after all the reductions in the past.

[albertoli]

Hapzim

what reductions in the past? Captains on what is it? Nearly £100 grand a year! Don't live in the past - look to the future.

Some battles are worth fighting but this one certainly is not.

[autobrake3]

albertoli, you're clearly clueless as to the reality of salaries in EZY. Do you work for the Daily Mail ?

[ChocksAwayUK]

Cor... interesting profile details. :suspect:

[ZBMAN]

Albertoli,

Even if it was 100 grand a year for a captain, what would be wrong with that?
EasyJet captains do a tremendous job of flying around one of the busiest airspace in the world, multiple sectors in all sorts of weather conditions, flying into well dodgy places, all this with a tremendous safety record. So yes in my opinion they would deserve at least 100 grand a year, and much more if you ask me. The bean counters in their office know nothing about what it is like to have 150 lives times 4 in their hands everytime they come in to work! Yet they seem to reep most of the company's success, even though it is us, the flight and cabin crew who make the whole thing work.

It is time we stand up for ourselves, and restore the consideration our profession deserves.

[ChocksAwayUK]

*polite applause*

One suspects that a new member whose only posts discourage Industrial Action might have an agenda of some sort. :confused:

[nuageblanc]

Even if it was 100 grand a year for a captain, what would be wrong with that?
EasyJet captains do a tremendous job of flying around one of the busiest airspace in the world, multiple sectors in all sorts of weather conditions, flying into well dodgy places, all this with a tremendous safety record. So yes in my opinion they would deserve at least 100 grand a year, and much more if you ask me. The bean counters in their office know nothing about what it is like to have 150 lives times 4 in their hands everytime they come in to work! Yet they seem to reep most of the company's success, even though it is us, the flight and cabin crew who make the whole thing work.


ZBMAN, stop it, you are making us crying :{
most of us here are flying in the same airspace with same weather. If you are not happy with easy, go to another company ...

[Kraut]

Nuageblanc & Albertoli,

leave this matter to the EZY pilots and take care about your own business/airline!:=

[albertoli]

Some people will never be happy regardless of how much they earn.

[ZBMAN]

most of us here are flying in the same airspace with same weather. If you are not happy with easy, go to another company ...

You are not talking about yourself are you? Because with 350hrs TT and NO commercial experience whatsoever I fail to grasp how you can understand the conditions in which we fly.

My suggestion: change your attitude. It is a small world and one day or another people will remember your ludicrous posts on pprune.

Just so that everyone knows who we are talking to, please refer to the topic "EZY future hiring". Very interesting.

I am a wanabee ATPL frozen pilot, but I have been flying as cabin crew for 3 years in a flag carrier airline, so I know about rosters ;)

Guillaume

:rolleyes:

[albertoli]

Now Now.

He may be inexperienced but his point is valid, I do not think that the Jet 2 guys get paid as much as the guys in easy but we all still fly in the same airspace and weather.

Difference is..... I do know what I am talking about.

[LeftHeadingNorth]

So instead of working to improve conditions in a profitable airline we should think about those who are paid less for doing the same job elsewhere? Here is one, most wannabes would kill to fly a jet without having to pay for it themselves... I rest my case....:ugh:

[albertoli]

No my point is that if you are not happy then don't strike just go somewhere else. This would leave some slots for the pilots at Thomas Cook and MYT who may have to leave their employment in the very near future.

It id ok to be happy with your lot.

[Kraut]

Again, ALBERTOLI,

leave it up to the pilots of EZY! It is quite normal, first you try to improve conditions in your present company and if that doesn´t work out, than it is time to look for a new emplyment!
And the pilots from Thomas Cook and MYT or JET2 could have joint at the last recruiting round. If they wanted to!?
There is a new recruiting round at EZY. If you like EZY´s working condition, come on and join the orange world!

[CliqClaq]

Kraut, Albertoni is a management clone. He and his type are responsible for the constant degradation in the pilot workforce terms and conditions. 20 + years ago we got reasonable recognition for our way of life, responsibilities, and hard work. This is the time to grasp the nettle, not wimp out and move somewhere else. Our moving on is what the bean counters prefer rather than paying the price (The price they pay is training costs, lack of continuity, and safety). 20 years of erosion has to be recompensed. They stamp on us when we are down. Lets stamp back. Done 2 years + LHS in easy by the way, before Albertoli starts.

[ZBMAN]

Difference is..... I do know what I am talking about.Shame that you don't seem to know how industrial relations work... Are you a Balpa member? Thought not!

And I reiterate, I do believe that we, easyJet crews, work in very trying conditions. I don't think there are many days in excess of 4 sectors in Jet 2. Do the Jet 2 crews fly 900hrs a year? Last time I spoke to of the Jet 2 guys I was surprised to learn that they flew much less than we did. Perhaps some fly more, but this is not the point. The point is it is our right to try and improve our package. It is thanks to the EZY Balpa CC and all their efforts through collective bargaining that we have the package that we now enjoy. Your reasoning of 'take it or leave it' is exactly what has lead our profession down the drain year by year, and is shockingly similar to the kind of reasoning our beloved ops dir, CV and his sidekicks seem to hold. If we don't stand up for ourselves when the company is doing really well, what's to become of us when things go wrong?

By all means, join the company, if you think the pakage is better, but remember it is thanks to the efforts of the members and the CC that you might be able to enjoy those terms and conditions.

[RAT 5]

This is not directly about EZY, but it really gets my goat when the standard response from Apathy Incorporated is if you don't like it then leave. Pathetic! Once again; the career minded people in an airline are generally the flight crews and engineers. They want the airline to succeed and strengthen. They want to be able to have a longterm rewarding career. They want to put down some roots for their family and invest time and effort in the company. They do not want to up sticks every 5 years. They do not want to be taken for granted and be screwed at every turn because they are vocational workers in a psecialised profession. They wnat to strengthen the financial base of the company. They wnat to make it attractive for new comers to join and the old lags to stay. They have every right to fight to achieve the ideal. It is the short-term thinking managers who don't give a toss. They are not in it for the duration. They are not specialised. They could operate their cut-throat antics in a chocolate factory if they wanted. As long as their bonuses and share options are coming on time they have no long-term ambitions at all. It doesn't matter what type of company it is, the workforce who are there for the long-term have a duty not to let the company be milked in the short term for the benefit of a few grabbing don't cares. Airlines have not gone bust due to greedy pilots!! It is useless greedy managers who have taken them down.

[MorningGlory]

Well said RAT, MOL and ryr should take note...

[Saabdriver]

Hi Studi

That's pretty much what it's about .......

[Ashling]

Well said RAT 5

[ZBMAN]

BEWARE!!! This is exactly what albertoli & Co. want, put one against each other: dividi et impera.
PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE whatever they are, trolls, managements or just idiots, just ignore them and continue to have a constructive discussion.


This is not the point I was trying to make. The point is that whatever the conditions in other airlines, it canot be a reason for us to be weak and just roll over with every threat our "management" makes, simply because other airlines have lesser T&Cs
Also, if we manage to improve our lot, it WILL increase the chances of the pilots in Jet2, Monarch, Flybe etc to imrove THEIR lot.

[nuageblanc]

ZBMAN, big shame on you and on your poor argument against myself because since then, I have joined a big french company which is part of Air France and I have now successfully passed my line check on CRJ :cool:
So once again, I can tell you that all of us are flying in the same airspace with the same weather conditions, and correct me if I am wrong but dont you operate CATIII landing at easy ?
You have good conditions and salary so stop your bull**** and change company if you are not happy with your current one !
Best regards !

[Kraut]

Congratulations on your linecheck! (amazing!?)

But, please grow up, get experience before you start to bother with EZY pilots!
Fly your CRJ, take care of your own airline, little white cloud!

[Joe_Bar]

Nuageblanc

Why don't you do the same, if you don't like the so called bull**** in this thread. Go somewhere else, because I don't think any serious poster is really interested in your views.

JB

[ZBMAN]

ZBMAN, big shame on you and on your poor argument against myself because since then, I have joined a big french company which is part of Air France and I have now successfully passed my line check on CRJ :cool:
So once again, I can tell you that all of us are flying in the same airspace with the same weather conditions, and correct me if I am wrong but dont you operate CATIII landing at easy ?
You have good conditions and salary so stop your bull**** and change company if you are not happy with your current one !

oh dear :rolleyes:

Great you've passed your line check... amazing! So now you must have about 450 hrs... You still have EVERYTHING to learn. You've been flying for a few months and you have the cheek to claim that you know the type of flying we do? Come back after 2000hrs. Maybe you'll understand then. In the meantime please start treating your colleagues with respect and do not try and talk about things you know nothing about.

And what has the fact that we do CATIIIb landings got to do with anything?:confused:

[superced]

et nuage blanc detents toi tu parles comme un puceau arrogant.

[Nubboy]

Always done so, so far:ugh:

[PENKO]

Incomming!!!!!!!!

[Right Way Up]

Little white cloud. I know you are just out of "nappies", but you might just have to get your met books out again. ZBMan said in all sorts of weather conditions
I don't want to p1ss on your parade but there is more bad weather than just fog.
But please don't go away, you are very entertaining....and I always think you need a village idiot to make the rest of us look good. Bon Chance!

[nuageblanc]

oh sorry it is not only lvp but also gust and xwinds and Ra !!:}

Poor ezy guys you are not lucky !! all of us are flying in CAVOK conditions, wind calm !
go on strike guys !!:ok:

[Saabdriver]

Nuageblanc

Why don´t you do all of us a favor here .....

Get the hell out of this forum, which is by the way a forum for professional pilots and not for kids like you that think since they can fly their MS Flight sim they know what it´s all about.

After all it´s people like you that are responsible for the pay conditions we are operating under.

All I can say is, that I hope that I never ever have to fly with people like you on the flight deck.

Cheers :yuk:

Saaby:yuk:

[flyhigh2fly]

All the best to the easy pilots!

Look at the guys at LTU going on strike at the summer holiday.

Its sad we have to go so far just to get a 4 or 5% salary increase while companies make millions of pounds without investing some in their personnel (such as pilots or CC).

All the best

[Thebaxfactor]

Pardon the ignorance here but isn't the same 'crew loving' CEO still in charge at easy? Apparently the guy even wears the uniform to work to show his respect and affinity. Not so long ago this forum was full of praise and admiration, so what has happened?:hmm:

[Kraut]

A dutch guy, well known in aviation industry entered the scene as COO.
And as it looks, he is getting his first victory in EASY. AH was not seen!
Lot of EZY pilots thinking about special tactical care this time, and believe the battle will be won next time.:confused:
If they have the chance for it!

[ZBMAN]

nuageblanc,

Qu'est-ce qu'on t'a fait quand t'étais petit pour que tu sois aussi puant? On se connait pour que t'en aie apres moi comme ça, et que tu saches comment je m'appelle?

I don't know what the hell's your problem, but you do seem in need of some psychological counseling! Oh and thanks for stating my real name, I'm sure our management knows nothing about pprune! You do realize that was a pretty stupid thing to do, don't you?

now back to the subject

But just to make things clear. I do not want to strike, no one does. BUT in a few days we'll be voting to accept or not the new "offer", which is the same as the previous one, which was rejected by the membership. If this one is also rejected then we will be automatically issued with a ballot for industrial action. That's the way the procedure goes, and it has nothing to do with "whining pilots wanting to teach management a lesson" as nuage blanc and his buddies seem to think.
I for one am extremely worried, and disappointed about the hard ball tactics of CV et al, as I and everyone else I know is totally commited to the company's success, and have no plan on leaving as nuageblanc suggests. We make huge efforts to keep the show going every day, and we'd like a bit more recognition, not just a 'thank you' from mangement, and a 0.5 percent pay rise.

[nuageblanc]

Zbman, your company is making money thanks to the nice managers ! not thanks to you ! there is a long queu for joining easyjet and everybody would love to have a 5453 roster and earning what you earn at easyjet !
thats it !:ok:

[Kraut]

Goddam it, foolish white cloud,
get out of this post and go back to kindergarten!:\

[ZBMAN]

Zbman, your company is making money thanks to the nice managers

Nice managers!! I love that one.

Maybe it's the sense of humor I don't get.

:ugh:

[ZeBedie]

I guess the Easy pilots would be happy to take a pay freeze, if they could have the bonus as the "nice" managers have had in recent years!

[PPRuNeUser0178]

Nice managers?

:D

Thats the best way of showing that you know **** all about aviation.

ED

[Kraut]

QUOTE]Look at the guys at LTU going on strike at the summer holiday.[/QUOTE]

91% of the LTU-pilots voted. 96% for a strike. They recognized the need to fight against the CEO A. Hunold, who fights the pilot union!

Let´s see what EZY pilots will achieve? I have my doubts!

[Mach trim]

What is the present pay for Easyjet Captains in Madrid and potential increase
and the other conditions exactly summarized ?

If you don't mind ?

Cheers

[High_Altitud]

91% of ltu pilots voterd, 58% of easyjet pilot did....
This is not very encouraging!
I think pilots should care a bit more of their T&C!
HA

[Kraut]

I think pilots should care a bit more of their T&C!
Oh, they do. They wait for the next time to fight the real battle! (whatever battle this might be?)
As I said, if they have the chance to!?

[zumzum]

your company is making money thanks to the nice managers !

Airlines are nothing without pilots that put their @ss everyday on aircrafts taking serious responsabilities of the safety of their flights.
managers and companies would be nothing if people like us wouldn't do the job of a safe, serious and professional operation.

You would be nothing without us! remember it...

[TartinTon]

All this "we're more important than you" bulls@it that happens on here is pathetic. An airline is a complicated business. A pilot is no more or less important than an engineer, a cleaner, a marketeer etc etc. The whole thing is a machine with lots of cogs of varying sizes that can knacker the whole system if a part of it doesn't work properly. Get over it. :ugh::ugh::ugh:

[sarah737]

From what I hear, it looks like the dutch guy is close to his first victory! I am afraid for the easy friends it won't be the last one...

[springbok449]

Nuageblanc,

Apres quelques jours de reflexions je me sens dans le besoin de repondre a tes postings plutot ignorants qu autre chose.

Bien que je ne travaille plus chez EZY, j'y ai travaille pendant presque 6 ans.
EZY est une superbe compagnie, qui en effet offre des roles 5/4/5/3 etc, le salaire est en general assez bon, pension etc sont de meme.

Ce qu il faut que tu comprennes, c est que si EZY est une "si boone compagnie" c est en partie/majorite grace a ses pilotes et personels de cabine, ces gens travails dans le plus grand professionalisme et sous pression constante pour que tout fonctionne comme une horloge suisse.

La seule chose que les employes (pas que les pilotes) souhaitent c est une reconnaissance, quand moi je travaillais la, apres 2 ans de service je recevais une fois par an 5% de mon salaire comme bonus si la compagnie montrait des benefices, apres 5 ans on recevait 10%, etc.

Toutes ces conditions sont terminees bien que la compagnie fassent de plus en plus de benefices.

Comme tout bon employe, les pilotes recherchent une reconaissance sous forme d augmentation.

Biensure, ils ne sont pas les seules pilotes a voler par toutes conditions meteorologiques dans des couloirs aeriens tres occupes etc, malgre tout comme tu decouvriras bientot dans ta nouvelle compagnie, le petit et moyen courrier de nos jours sont tres fatiguants.

Tu viens juste de commencer dans un compagnie regionale (subsidiaire D Air France) avec probablement l occase de passer chez Air France, j aimerais bien te voir discuter avec ton "futur Commandant" ex Baron de l' Atlantique d Air France qu il ne doit pas demander d augmentation de salaire parceque il touche deja assez de primes...crois moi, tu ne te feras pas beacoup d amis de cette maniere la.

Dans quelques annees, tu comprendras que de voler pour des cacahuettes ca ne paie pas les factures quand t' as une famille...ce n est pas parceque tu es bien paye qu il ne faut pas revoir les salaires ou conditions a la hausse, surtout quand tu participes activement a la reussite de ta boite.

Quand j ai commence a voler, mon premier chef pilote m'a dit: don't ever piss anybody off on the way up because you will meet them on the way down, et ca mon cher collegue c est le plus grand conseil que moi je puisse te donner en lisant des postings sur Pprune.

Si tu as des questions ou tu veux repondre a mon post n hesite pas a le faire sur mon private mail.

Bonne Chance.

[Toolongincruise]

Having worked for Easyjet I would have to say that lifestyle improvements would be more important than a big payrise.

None of the above posts have addressed this issue.

Working 5 earlies in a row and then the fatigue of 5 lates with long FDP's is just not sustainable in the long term.

It would be hard to argue that the pay is not reasonable.I am not arguing however that a fair pay rise is not also due.
The lifestyle however is a killer in the long term.

Whilst the economy is running hot and airlines worldwide are expanding it is a make or break time for the improvement of pilot conditions at EZY and many other airlines the world over.

Unity and support for your pilot association is the only way forward.Sadly pilot psyche is easily manipulated by management.A silly post from a French wannabee has already received heated replies rather than knowing when to ignore a trouble maker with no credibility.
Divide and conquer has worked well for many airlines around the world.

Best wishes to all the crews at EZY.Stick to your guns and back BALPA. All pilots stand to gain when you do.

[Kraut]

TOLONGINCRUISE

Just as info. Lifestyle is important, but it was not on the negotiations agenda this time.
A survey (for BALPA members) showed the mainpoint "money".

[albertoli]

Ah tis dissappointing that just because a few people do not agree with the likes of ZBMAN they are dammed to rot in hell. Please remember that this is a discussion forum and everyone is entitled to their say, even the young French chap who flies the CRJ. His point is still valid that we all fly in the same airspace and same weather, however many hours he has.

Now my mate, and yes I do have one, just the one mind (not including the wife) tells me that pay and conditions are pretty good at easy. So perhaps the more well informed can help me out here?

He is in the LHS and gets about 75 grand a year plus around 10 grand sector pay. Oh I nearly forgot, he also gets a bonus of 10% of basic this year as he has been with the company 5 years. So let us call that 93 grand a year.

Oh and I also very nearly forgot as well that he told me he got 2 weeks worth of salary last summer in shares, whats that about 2500 grand (around 2.5% on top of last year's pay rise)? Let us call the total 95 grand ish this year.

He also tells me that given the 5/3/5/4 roster pattern, he gets plenty of time off to spend it.

Now, can someone tell me if there is another low cost airline that pays the same or more AND gives such a good stable roster pattern?

Just wondering that was all.

[ZBMAN]

His point is still valid that we all fly in the same airspace and same weather, however many hours he has.

If you think his point is valid you have not understood what MY point was. I have flown with others airlines than easyJet, and although I do enjoy the 5354, and although I must admit that the pay isn't too bad, this was not the main reason I joined. Now compared to my previous job, I find working days in easyJet are much more challenging, for a huge number of reasons. have you done many 6 sectors days in the UK, all in LVP conditions trying to maintain a decent schedule with 25 mn turnarounds? That's a common thing in certain bases with easyJet. The work we do is much harder than most other jobs. Is this so hard to understand? You, nuageblanc and our management must be the only people in this industry not to understand this. :ugh:

[Doug the Head]

He is in the LHS and gets about 75 grand a year plus around 10 grand sector pay. Oh I nearly forgot, he also gets a bonus of 10% of basic this year as he has been with the company 5 years. So let us call that 93 grand a year.
Yeah, and he/she also gets a free heart attack by the age of 50 if one continues the 'healthy' lifestyle that we live.

Many psychologists agree that people get what they feel that they are worth. That's how a beggar is happy with £1,- and that's why many rich people (rightly or wrongly) feel they are worth the mega bucks that they earn.

This also explains why many people who win the lottery will again lose the money they won, simply because their mindset is not in sync with the sudden financial wealth.

I find it sad to see that some people in EZY obviously do not feel worthy of a good salary in return for the hard work we do every day, while management obviously do feel worthy of receiving huge bonuses/share option schemes for the mess they make. :{

[Airbrake]

Albertoli.
Your "friend" forgot to tell you the best bits.

7% pension.
No private health care.
850-900hrs a year.
3 months randon rostering each year.
Q1. How many shares did he get this summer...?
Answer, none (yet) we live in hope.
Q2. What will his pay be in 4 years time?
Answer, exactly the same, unless BALPA goes through pay negotiations each time.

Don't misunderstand me there are far worse employers but you need to ask your "friend" some more searching questions.

[chec tunset]

Don't you love it when they cherry-pick the best bits. Last time I checked EZY had one of the worst pensions in the industry,crap lol, crap sick pay and no health care. Take all that out of your supposed 93K and see where you end up. I don't know anybody who has recently lifted anywhere near that.

[no sponsor]

It's bloody well better than Jet2. We work 6 days on 2 off and nothing like the salary or benefits offered at EZY. 10 days sick at full salary in any 12 month period and then you are on you own.

Oh, and sometimes we get our roster 5 days before the present one runs out - and besides the roster constantly changes so I suppose it doesn't really matter.

[Johnny Hotspur]

Have to agree with toolonginthe cruise.... lifestyle is the issue for me. I'd be happy with a rpi salary increase if we could do less of the FDP's that we do! 5 lates of 10 hour plus duty days, 4 sectors with 25 minute turnarounds are no good for a long term career.... hopefully this is what the latest cc bulletin was hinting at today.

[old-timer]

Winco Harrison - lead your Sqn - a great time to show your mettle,
please don't disregard, this is IMPORTANT !

[F4F]

TartinTon
A pilot is no more or less important than an engineer, a cleaner, a marketeer etc etc.
Well, your remark is a tad superficial... You could ask me "what do you think does make a pilot soo "special"... and there we are, once more, having to defend ourselves... so here, just a couple of reasons I can think of right now that differentiate mr Pilot from others:
- Most of us are fully self funded professionals :ok:
- We bring a set of qualities, mental and physical :cool:
- We cannot work at less than 100% engagement :p
- We have to constantly demonstrate that our skills have not eroded (sim) :hmm:
- We have to make decisions in split decisions (no time to get into the books) :8
- We suffer from known discomforts related to flying :uhoh:
- Statistics show pilots don't age very well past pension age :(

no sponsor
Most of us know the feeling (maybe too well) of working for these kind of companies, well that's the reason most people will change company over the years, the grass is always greener...


live 2 fly 2 live

[Bealzebub]

Nevertheless he has a point.

Most of us are fully self funded professionals . But not all and indeed many other professionals are also self funded.


We bring a set of qualities, mental and physical . You think that is a difference ?

We cannot work at less than 100% engagement . Oh yes we can, and like others often do. Not sure how long you have been doing this, but just read about fatigue, CRM, errors etc and you will quickly realize how untrue that line is as a statement of fact.

We have to constantly demonstrate that our skills have not eroded . In fact we often demonstrate how "our skills" have eroded. That is why we have continuous training and refreshers in both the sim and on the ground. It is the awareness of such things that should be the first step in correcting and improving our performance.

We have to make decisions in split decisions (no time to get into the books). I am guessing you mean decisions in split seconds ? However that is often the case in other occupations as well. In fact many (most) decisions do not have to be made in split seconds, and it the ablity to recognise that point that often shows a higher degree of judgement.


We suffer from known discomforts related to flying . I am sure there are many jobs with discomforts related to their particular environment. Serving soldier rather springs to mind.


Statistics show pilots don't age very well past pension age .
Ah yes, statistics. Is that the statistics for those who retire at 55, or those who retire at 60 or those who retire at 65. Are the statitiscs relevant to any other particular occupation group that retire at those same age bands ?

It is rather unsafe to be deluded by a sense of your own self importance vis-a-vis other people in other occupations.

Pilots are not dissimilar to a variety of other occupations. We are subject to the vagaries of the laws of supply & demand and any distortions therein. Pilots have a trained skill that places them in a position that may make them irreplaceable in the short term. However that isn't much different from many other occupations.

[abfgh]

@ no sponsor So what's wrong with improving our T&C's, then maybe your's will follow or you might profit from our conditions once you join us!!

[Dutchjock]

Hang on, I can hear something....


I know what it is... it is the beautifull sound of a harp...


Ah I can see it now, it's an orange harp.. and there's a dutch bloke playing it..


But hang on, it's not strings he's using, he's playing stretched pilots...


He's got a big smile on his face and he's thinking:

Damn did I make a good entrance into this company! Record profits and those silly pilots settle for a 20 quid a month effective payrise for F/O's and 40 quid a month for Captains. And they didn't even vote against it, because I bullied the CC into recommending it


His smile gets even bigger and then he starts to sing:

This big fat bonus I'll get will make me a retirement fund, while those annoying pilots will work for Mcdonalds if they ever make it to retirement age...

(I know it doesn't rime but poetry is not generally the first thing people mention when they think of Holland:})


The sad vision is fading as his stretched strings brake and he throws away his harp to find another instrument to play for his own good...

[Kraut]

But the paydeal-
is real!
It rimes in a typical german way!:)

[jetrider757]

Certainly not a career airline Easy, too much like bloody hard work if you ask me. 30 years or so of that and you wont see retirement. You're now victims of your own success, which was inevitable. Low cost has damaged airline career pay and terms/conditions considerably.
If you continue to work such hours then be prepared to take it to down to the wire and strike. I'd fully support your actions as would any other sensibly - minded jet jock.

[Portside]

Well Zebedie!!! You have now raised your pinkies to hijack another thread relating to negotiations between management and the work force!!!

Have you got some kind of chip on your should, or are you a wannabe who likes to write the talk? Please don`t answer I`m not interested!!

Or maybe you can work for both Easy and Monarch at the same time on your flight SIM.

PS....

Easy guys / girls it will go the ACAS route regardless of hanging out any dirty washing on here.

Portside

[F4F]

he Bealzebub
No no, you really didn't get it, did you... mine is longer than yours, cheers :E

live 2 fly 2 live

[albertoli]

Ah Airbrake

I take your point but.....

He is in the LHS and gets about 75 grand a year plus around 10 grand sector pay. Oh I nearly forgot, he also gets a bonus of 10% of basic this year as he has been with the company 5 years. So let us call that 93 grand a year.

Oh and I also very nearly forgot as well that he told me he got 2 weeks worth of salary last summer in shares, whats that about 2500 grand (around 2.5% on top of last year's pay rise)? Let us call the total 95 grand ish this year.

He also tells me that given the 5/3/5/4 roster pattern, he gets plenty of time off to spend it.

Given what I have said above is there any other low cost airline that gives all of this and.....

More than 7% pension.
and
Private health care.
and
Less than 850-900hrs a year.(I believe very few are actually doing this!)
and
no randon rostering at all.
and
Share options Have the company not already given various share options throughout the years?
and
Can tell me what I will be paid in 4 years time, let alone still be employed.

If there is can you please let us all know!!!!!!

[Kraut]

ALBERTOLI,
you talk like management. Big words, not knowing the details!:=
More than 7% pension.
Only if you subtract it from your paydeal increase individual to the pension fund
Private health care.
Hello, where?????:confused:
Less than 850-900hrs a year.(:confused:
Your good friend is lucky, 850hrs is a common number
no random rostering at all.:\
B..s...it! Nearly 3 month reserve with random rostering, if bad luck loosing vacation days
various share options throughout the years?:confused:
This year reaching probably the performance targets, to execute the options, not at various years!!
ALBERTOLI, give up to make it looking gold, if it is just common bronze!

[Fifty Above]

I doubt very much that anybody wanting to work for easyJet has bothered to read this far, but if they have I can tell them that it's a good place to be.
In the last year I flew 760 hours, earned £98000, made £8000 profit on some share options and had nothing much to complain about.
The deal will almost certainly get accepted then we can all get back to enjoying our flying.

[zumzum]

yeah but nobody talks about staff travel...

Everyone is so concerned about earning maybe 20 stg more a month BUT NOBODY CARE about who is spending around 800 pounds a year for going home... (Not in holiday!!!)
EasyJet is becoming day after day an European company, like the main competitor RYR, but the difference is that they can commute and we don't!!!:ugh:

True, the company is not too bad but there is still a lot work to do in this direction...Even if nobody in BALPA seems to be too worried about it...:D

We are paying a not cheap subscription as well...

[Kraut]

I understand your desire for STAFF TRAVEL.
But it was not at the high ranking issue for this years negotiations (result of the survey).
I am just astonished (regarding a strike, maybe!) that a lot of people say. "we can not risk" this for 1%.
And the lovely COO says: "We are not returning to the table for negotiations, before you are really on strike!"

Never ever!!! I want so see this guy explaining to the members of the PLC board incl Stelios, that a strike is taking place just for 1%, not giving to the pilots??
The damage to EZY for 1%, financially and customer orientated, would be much higher! Management is gambling high!
This is not because of 1%, this is because of the future way of EZY negotiations. It is because, who is ruling the direction (power)
The next battle lots are waiting for (2years) BALPA members will be reduced due to local contracts.
And than a strike, I wonder! If the guys in UK try to strike, the "local contract bases" will still fly"
A "EZY Germany" on strike? HaHa! will be covered by all other bases!
Waiting for the next battle means for me: Battle lost already!

Good luck to us all!

My two cents!
I

[PGA]

With the latest offer on the table I`m personally not in favour of a strike anymore. I find it very interesting though, that our fellow colleagues in Ireland have announced a strike to help out the guys being based in Northern Ireland. Howcome they are so united with regards to contractual issues when we aren`t?

[Kraut]

PGA

When on local contracts,finally local laws will apply. This means, the local union will be taking over.

Although, there may be a "connection" between the unions, you will hardly be able to strike "together", i.e. VC and BALPA.
The long term strategy of EZY will be to split the pilot community!
You are happy with this deal, come back in two years and than I ask you again!
Most of you are still underestimating the new COO! He will lead the battle.
AH WILL STAY IN THE BACKGROUND1

[Joe_Bar]

How will people be forced to change to a local contract?

Cheers
Joe

[Bokkenrijder]

How will people be forced to change to a local contract?

They will find a way...just like they found a way to get away with a very very mediocre pay increase during a red hot pilot market whilst making profit after profit and close to 1 billion Pounds in cash.

Pilots (just like most other folks) are unfortunately very gullible and are easily scared into something.

It all comes down to what one believes that they are worth. Well...most cadets will "fly for food" and most older captains have a family to think about. That leaves senior FO's that are thinking/kissing ass about their command and junior captains that are new in the LHS.

Joe_bar, which ones of those people that I mentioned above do you think will refuse to sign a local contract? Or do you think that Balpa will come to the rescue? :{

[Speevy]

Local contract will soon be forced upon Easyjet, which will definetely abuse th situation!!
There are many politics involved and even If I am sure AH is pleased to see that he will able to put the union out for a while don't forget to look into the TNA scheme and the strong ties that there are between the ECA unions, European comission is also trying to change some rules making collective bargaining easier and more efficient!

Go and check on the web, you will find lots of usual info!

[CaptainProp]

PGA - You have answered that question yourself! Dont you see it?! You are not prepared to go to ind action over the latest "offer". Cant you see that this is potentially (probably??!!) the LAST chance we have to make a stand? This is not really about the pay "deal" at all any more. Its about sending a clear signal that we are united and stand strong as a group. With a strong "no" vote now we stand a much better chance to be taken seriously by the company, a greater chance to be consulted before they try to impose future local contracts, loss of T&Cs etc etc.

Good luck to all! Im afraid you'll need it......:(

/CP

[albertoli]

Kraut

You have completely missed my point!

I am not saying that easyjet give you all these options. I am asking if there is any other low cost airline that gives more (or even comes close)than the following:

75 grand a year plus around 10 grand sector pay. Oh I nearly forgot, a bonus of 10% of basic this year as he has been with the company 5 years. So let us call that 93 grand a year.

Oh and I also very nearly forgot as well that he told me he got 2 weeks worth of salary last summer in shares, whats that about 2500 grand (around 2.5% on top of last year's pay rise)? Let us call the total 95 grand ish this year.

He also tells me that given the 5/3/5/4 roster pattern, he gets plenty of time off to spend it.

Given what I have said above is there any other low cost airline that gives all of this and.....

More than 7% pension.
and
Private health care.
and
Less than 850-900hrs a year.(I believe very few are actually doing this!)
and
no randon rostering at all.
and
Share options Have the company not already given various share options throughout the years?
and
Can tell me what I will be paid in 4 years time, let alone still be employed.

And so far, no one has been able to give me an answer.

Are easyjet recruiting this year???????

Oh by the way, I believe that it is the European governments that are enforcing local contracts - and I am not surprised. Do foreign nationals who work with easyjet in the UK pay UK Tax?

If they do then why shouldn't crews on a UK contract working and living in Europe pay local governemnt tax and NI etc. If they live in a particular country and use that country's "services" then surely it is only right and proper that they contribute towards them?

[Wanabee,Gunnabee,Am]

I believe that in the UK sympathy strikes are not allowed. However as far as I am aware the union can insist that we do not cover routes in dispute. Therefore if for example the German bases go on strike we can hold out and not fly their routes. Maybe someone in the know can confirm this.

[HundredPercentPlease]

albertoli,

I have been at easy for 4+ years. Although I am waiting with a lot of others for a command course (maybe this year, maybe next), I write this as a SFO, for SFOs - the future of the company.

I sold my house to pay for the job. This has screwed me. Being taken out of the housing market is not good to say the least.

I earn £39,000. This month I took home £2,350. I have yet to find a comparable airline that pays a 4 year, 4,000 hour SFO this little.

My pension will mature at £11,000 pa. Maybe they'll throw in a cardboard box.

I have received bonuses over the last 4 years. They include (in no particular order): a book, a biro, some arse wipes (I am not joking) and a bottle of shampoo.

If I look on ppjn, I find my earnings at the very bottom of the list. Luckily, there are redeeming features - most notably the fact that the recruitment department, for all their failings, are good at filtering out the idiots.

[OPEN DES]

2350 per month!?

At a UK base I used to get a grand more than that as an SFO.

[CAT III DUAL]

@100%
I sold my house to pay for the job..[]
...[]...I have yet to find a comparable airline that pays a 4 year, 4,000 hour SFO this little.

Well, you knew what your future would probably look like when you sold, didn´t you ?
If your salary is too low, why did you

a) sell your house still ?
b) join easyJet, instead one of those airlines paying "more" ? (Not too many around, hm ?)

With 4 years and 4k hours you probably joined as a cadet with an empty logbook. No problem.

But before I sell my house I gather my facts and by the time you joined EZY
your salary was even 14% lower ! (payrise of 4% in 2004, another 5%+5% 2005/6).

So why the hell did you do it then ?? :hmm:

[apron]

£39,000 for a year 4 SFO is a lot lower than I expected to see. I work for a loco on the b737 and at year 1 was on £43,200 basic and then at year 3 it will be £45,000. With allowances and flying roughly 700hrs a year take over £3100 a month.

I know its your payslip but how can this be right?

[ChocksAwayUK]

I know its your payslip but how can this be right?
Either:
1) Hundrendpercentplease is on a TRSS contract. (£39k is basic TRSS SFO salary). Though unlikely for someone who joined as a low hours recruit.
2) Hundrendpercentplease is on a Cadet salary and paying off (approx £80K) Zero Hours-Type Rating training over the course of 7 years via a reduced salary.
3) Hundrendpercentplease is on a part time 75% deal (clue's in the user name).

[Doug the Head]

Apron, those numbers sound about right.

I'm also TRSS FO and I get about £3200/month, but you need to subtract about £420 for the TRSS repayment. That breaks down to roughly £2800/month, NETTO!

Multiply that by 12 and you get an idea how little we earn per year for the grueling hard work that we do... :{

It's really sad to see that people are naive enough to be 'happy' with this and do not have the stomach to fight for a better deal.

[HundredPercentPlease]

So why the hell did you do it then ??

The clue is in the username, I am not a cadet - I came from turboprops and am on the TRSS scheme. At the time, it was very difficult to get a job anywhere, and there was the perception that you could get "stuck" on a tp. So I felt I had done well to make the jump to a proper company, despite the financial madness. I realise now, with my salary and pension all reduced because of this, the huge cost of living whilst unpaid waiting for and doing the TR, the rise in the housing market and so on, that I would probably have been better waiting for a bit and getting a job with a carrier who didn't rob you blind.

My starting salary was £35k. The first 4% payrise exposed the fact that my salary was a "mistake" (ie too high) and so it didn't apply to me.

The salary now is indeed £39k. I have of course quoted a low month, but most see between £3150 and £2900. From this you have to deduct the £430 loan repayment, leaving £2700 to £2450. Last month I had leave, hence the £2350.

So albertoli, which comparable airline pays less than this - for a 4 year SFO?

[B727-200]

I get really irate reading some of the posts on here from people who DO NOT work for easy and feel we are greedy, spoilt kids!

Tell me, what is wrong with those who have a stake in a company and see their long term future within a company standing up for what they believe is fair? I don't care what others earn, so please don't come on here saying we earn more than you! If you don't work for this company then I'm seriously dubious as to why you've got such strong views on our plight. Why not concentrate on your own lot and let others get on with concentrating on theirs.

I don't comment on what Flybe, BA, Virgin, XL yadee yadee yadee earn, because I don't work for them, and frankly, it's none of my business.

[macky]

Easyjet cant afford to give the pilots a decent pay rise when the company keeps making record profits :=

Yet AH gets his £900,000 bonus :rolleyes:

I'm all for paying people for their efforts so it's time to start sharing the love guys before EJ manage to divide and conquer the pilot workforce.

I personnally don't want to strike. However I don't want to get shafted either.


Lets make a stand guys, probably last chance. :ok:

[Doug the Head]

Out of curiousity, what does a type-rated F/O start on at EasyJet with an unfrozen ATPL ? Don't be so bloody lazy! Have a look on their website at the bottom under "jobs." It only takes a few seconds! :hmm:

[albertoli]

Well well.

Hundredpercentplease,

sorry to hear you had to sell your house. However, is it not true that a lot of pilots join up as TRSS or on another type of contract and as soon as they get in they complain about the contract they have signed up for; happens in a lot of companies. I think you have to look towards your potential earnings in the near future.

As a 4000 hours SFO, and the fact that you have been in the company 4+ years, I am surprised you are not already well into the cammand process because my mate tells me you only need 3000 factored hours for command. You must have achieved that a while ago given what some have been saying about how many hours you guys in easyjet fly per year. If you joined another major airline you would still have some time to do before you are even looked at for command.

B737 200

I thought this was a discussion forum - don't matter who you work for free speech and all that.

[Doug the Head]

"My mate says this...my mate thinks that." Are you two lovers or something like that?

Why don't YOU join EZY yourself and find out first hand what life is like in EZY before you start posting about how 'wonderful' EZY is?

[B727-200]

Albertoli

Correct, this is a forum for all to contribute and I say it's all the better for it.

However, you are posting on something from the outside ... i.e. you are not so well informed, yet feel you can post with such certainty about things "because your mate works here". Well, my mates work in other airlines, but I don't join into their debates posting what are provocative comments in sensitive times. Sorry mate, but it shows a lack of professionalism and certainly a lack of manners.

You're free to post what you like on here, but just what do you wish to achieve by getting people's backs up?

I'm not against you posting reasoned comments for or against, as that's what healthy debate is about. But frankly, unless you work here and know the facts, I doubt you're really qualified to comment. Fortunately, we have a forum which filters out all the noise, it's called the BALPA forum ;)

Perhaps your mate should be posting on here with a counter arguement if things are so wonderful.

Now, please don't draw me into an arguement with you. I don't take kindly to wind-up merchants!

[albertoli]

Oh dear.

I do not think any of my comments have been unreasonable and I think that the facts I have posted are pretty much correct.

They are certainly not intended to wind people up.

[sarah737]

Alberto, I think you think too much!:bored:
A lot of lives have been lost in aviation because people were thinking instead of knowing!

[HundredPercentPlease]

Albertoli,

You said:I am surprised you are not already well into the cammand process

You might want to re-read the very first line of my post here:

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showpost.php?p=3480037&postcount=130

I spent time on turboprops, so I only reached the factored hours requirement last year. It takes months waiting for check flights and sim, and now I, with quite a few others, are waiting for the elusive command course.

I am not complaining about my rotten contract. I signed it, and it is my fault. It is also the fault of all the hundreds of others that signed it, and those who continue to sign it today.

I am simply responding to your opinion, clearly derived from your mates observations, that we are very well paid.

I am voting NO - because I earn less than any other similar pilot in any other comparable airline.

No amount of you telling me how well off I am will change my opinion, thanks anyway.

[Thebaxfactor]

It's a very difficult thread to read when you consider the pilots and cabin crew at easy gave their management team a record 80% satisfaction rating in a recent empoyee survey. Why would you even consider it strange that the company would take that result out for a spin....as an outsider it looks like a huge own goal. They knew they were in the driving seat, because you put them there. Well done! There was never going to be a negotiation, because when you had your chance you told them you were content/satisfied with your T&Cs, and they knew all that before the pay talks ended....because you told them!

next year = :oh:

[rubik101]

Having worked for several different airlines over many years I am somewhat surprised at the idea that easyjet pilots might be contemplating a strike. In my experience, in recent memory, strikes have rarely or never achieved their desired objectives.
In this industry, most strikes have occured just prior to a company going out of business. I do not see easyJet going out of business in the near future.
Why do people go on strike? Because all other avenues have failed to produce the desired result.
Why has the desired result failed to occur? Because the employees feel that their pay and conditions have slipped so far behind the industry standard that they feel strongly enough to make a fuss.
Believe me, pay and conditions in easyjet are a very long way from the worst in this industry, be it in UK or Europe.
The pilots will not strike because they have little to gain. Even if easyJet were to concede and pay them the best rates in the industry, they would not be so very far from where they are now.
They already get close to the best T&Cs in the LOCO market and only blinkered and naive newcomers to this job think otherwise.
Do some research and examine exactly what you are getting compared to others in the same situation.
Talk to your management and make a deal.
Whatever deal you make will be unsatisfactory to many who think that they deserve more. But that has always been the case in aviation.
I am worth far more than that!
I deserve more because someone else gets this much!
I want, I want, I want.
I don't want management making lots of money.
I want some of their bonuses.
I do the work and they get the money.
Me, me, me, me.
For goodness sake, stop whingeing and get on with the job.
Pathetic and sad, all of you who are advocating a strike.
Save it for something important.

[ZBMAN]

Ah the Pulse survey...

It's a very difficult thread to read when you consider the pilots and cabin crew at easy gave their management team a record 80% satisfaction rating in a recent empoyee survey. Why would you even consider it strange that the company would take that result out for a spin....as an outsider it looks like a huge own goal. They knew they were in the driving seat, because you put them there. Well done! There was never going to be a negotiation, because when you had your chance you told them you were content/satisfied with your T&Cs, and they knew all that before the pay talks ended....because you told them!

next year = :oh:

Sorry baxfactor, but I really can't remember having seen questions of the survey relating to our T&C's. Perhaps someone here can prove me wrong.

I'm not sure I can post what the questions actually were on a public forum, so to be sure I won't, but I can tell you they were along the lines of "Do you feel commited to the succes of the company, do you have friendly colleagues etc etc.

So what the survey reflects is simply that we are commited to the company's success, and that most of us a proud to work for easyJet. I, for one certainly feel this way. However, this doesn't mean we shouldn' seek to make easyJet the carreer airline it ought to be. A lot of issues remain to be dealt with, but this won't be possible if the hundreds of new joiners think like Albertoli et al.

[ZBMAN]

Rubik, what a load of rubbish!!

They already get close to the best T&Cs in the LOCO market and only blinkered and naive newcomers to this job think otherwise.
Do some research and examine exactly what you are getting compared to others in the same situation.

If I follow your somewhat confused reasoning, we should NOT try to improve our package because we are already at the top end of what other LOCO's offer!? What you are saying is that we should wait until what we have gained over the years gets chipped away, because we are the best paid in the LOCO market. This is crazy. How can we try to improve the general terms and conditions in the loco market if we don't try and increase the standard?

Talk to your management and make a deal.

We've been trying for the past few months, and what was "offered" by management was a pure insult on our intelligence. You do realize there is what we call a negociation process? We are now at the final offer, ie the company will NOT come back around the table. If the ballot result for the final offer is rejected then we will be issued with a ballot for industrial action. That's how things work, but you don't seem too familiar with that do you? Have you ever been in a union or are you just eager to sit on the sideline and reap the benefits of the efforts of others?

I deserve more because someone else gets this much!
I want, I want, I want.

:rolleyes::ugh:

I don't want management making lots of money

Nobody said that. We understand that management have a huge reponsibilty over the success or failure of the company. Therefore we accept that they are rewarded accordingly.

I want some of their bonuses.

For goodness sake you are unbelievable. We don't want their bonuses. We would like some form of recognition other than a pat on the back and a sub-inflation offe. Is this to much to ask, or to understand?

[Bokkenrijder]

Rubik101 is obviously one of those persons that are scared of everything in life and let others take control of their lives...

They had one bad experience (taxes or management) caused by their own bad judgment, and now they have a sudden urge to 'warn' everybody else for the impending disaster...

Those are exactly the kind of people that EZY wants: people scared sh!tless, easily manipulated into believing the latest orange propaganda...

A couple words of advice: get some balls and a spine then you'll find that life will be a hell of a lot easier!

[rubik101]

Is it a requirement to be angry and ignorant to post on here?
ZB, I have been on a company PLC and on a BALPA Committee for many years. I have negotiated through many hours with management and generally, over the years, acheived fairly good results. Thats how it's done. Some years you gain a lot, some you gain a little and in some years people mutter about strikes. Strikes achieve nothing in this bussiness. Wait and see what happens in BFS this week and then tell me I'm wrong.
As for bokkenwhatever's comments, well, just plain ignorant seems to suffice in your case.

[Bokkenrijder]

In life you have to know when it's time to stand up for yourself and when it's time to give in. You have to know which battles to pick and which battles you want to avoid.

IMHO this battle (not necessarily a strike though) we will have to fight. If we don't stand up now, there will be no more BALPA for that famous "next battle" that we always read about on the BALPA forum.

After this 'pay deal', what's the incentive of staying with BALPA? Six earlies in a row for "lifestyle" reasons? There will be no more members as the divide and conquer tactics of management have paid off. The gloves have come off, AH has turned out to be a bit of a wolf in sheep's clothing and with Dutchman CV it's a new ballgame. If we're not very careful, EZY will soon have to paint orange harps on the tail.

Wait and see what happens in BFS this week and then tell me I'm wrong. Give in now, wait a year or so and then tell me if I'm wrong...

[ZBMAN]

Is it a requirement to be angry and ignorant to post on here

First of all I am not angry, just a bit annoyed about some of the comments posted here by people who are obviously not easyJet employees, but who nevertheless think they know better, and who find it appropriate to lecture us on how lucky we are etc. Secondly, do you work for eJ? Are you aware of the whole issue in all its details? If not, then I am afraid the word "ignorant" might apply to you too...

Once again, I do not wish to strike, BUT if the ballot results are negative and we do vote for some form of Industrial Action, then I will support what the majority of the membership has decided.

[Kraut]

Back to the original topic:

The EZY pay deal offer gets more and more ridiculous! Just over the german news:

Cabin personal LTU gets 3% backdated beginning 2007 and 2% from july 2008.
Reflecting this on the German inflation rate and that LTU is not really making profits, so what is the EZY deal worth?:confused:

Yeah, I know, the next battle will be a tough one!

[Bokkenrijder]

NO vote in the mail! :mad:

[jetjockey737]

I flew with a captain the other day and asked him what he thought of the new deal, he said that he thought it was a poor deal but he voted yes because we weren't going to get a better offer!!!! I nearly gave up the will to live at that point......:ugh:

[albertoli]

Well well.

Sarah737

Please be assured that it is ok to think too much especially when sitting on the ground. I do not think many lives in aviation have been lost sitting thinking in front of a computer whilst reading PPRUNE.

Hundredpercentplease

My comments were based on the following:

If you flew props previously and have been with easy 4+ years then I would have expected you to have reached the 3000hrs factored before now. From what I have read in this forum the easy pilots are flying 850-900hrs per year therefore let me do the math. With this in mind, 4+ years with easy you should have at least 3600hrs FACTORED??? (then you have your prop hours to add on).

Now, you are not happy about your pay and conditions (even though you signed up to them) and have said that you are in the command process. I think you need to not be so blinkered in your approach and vote no. Vote how you like, I really do not care, but if you are successful in the command process and get your command let's say in the sprin of next year, you will be on a salary of say around £85000 (an educated guess). Now, which other airline will give you command with your experience level in 5 years of joining the company? I think if you joined another airline, given your experience level, it will take longer than 5 years to earn that amount of cash - don't you think?

[albertoli]

Rubik101

Well said that man.

ZBman

the pay deal may not be that great this year but was the last pay deal a good one? If it was I do not think you can exppect to get a very good pay deal every year. Some years you have some good ones and some years not so good. At the end of the day it is a pay rise and not a freeze.

If you are a BALPA member and the vote is for industrial action you will have to strike anyway - you will have to support the membership whether you like it or not.

Bokkenrijder

Balls and a spine eh? There are a lot of miner out there who thought the same as you 20 years a go. They have balls and a spine but no job?

Kraut

Please do not confuse the issue with cabin crew pay. This thread relates to pilot pay. Anyway, I do not know what your point is here. Are easy not offering something like 4.4%??? Is this not better than 3% and even 2%????

[Right Way Up]

Albertoli,
If it winds you up so much how much Easy pilots earn, don't read this thread.

I do not think many lives in aviation have been lost sitting thinking in front of a computer whilst reading PPRUNE.

To be honest getting wound up by other peoples business suggests a stress level that is not good for the health.

[Kraut]

ALBERTOLI

You wrote:.......Are easy not offering something like 4.4%??? Is this not better than 3% and even 2%????............


I mentioned the cabin crew pay increase only to show, how marginal the EZY pilot deal is! The LTU pilots got even a better deal. And we have also to look at the continent, as EZY claims to be a "paneuropean" airline!

And I said, please read carefully, "reflecting on inflation"!

UK inflation about 4% payraise 4,7% = real plus about 0.7%

German inflation 1,8% payrise 3% = real plus about 1,2%

Also, this is higher mathematics, I hope you discover my point now???

And the LTU deal is backdated beginning of the year, the EZY two year deal starts in october!!!!

[easyme]

Please correct me if I'm wrong Kraut but isn't it a good thing that Easy bases the payrise on UK inflation since it one of the highest in Europe?

On that premises you will get a 4,7-1.8+=2,9% payrise?

So, the european bases will actually be better of then the UK bases.

But I'm sure if you suggest to the company that you will get the same 1,2% plus that the LTU cabin crew get, they will be more then happy to give it to you!

[easyme]

also, the reason why the paydeal is not backdated to Jan is because the negotiations are for next year! If you remember, last time the negotiations took so long that I only got the backpay in July - backdated from October!

So this year they made an early start to negotiations to prevent this from happening!

[ZBMAN]

On that premises you will get a 4,7-1.8+=2,9% payrise?

So, the european bases will actually be better of then the UK bases.


True, but... we'll all be on "local" contracts within the next few months. I dare not imagine how future pay negotiations will go. This is why we must try and secure the best pay deal NOW. Once we're on local contracts it will be too late.

[easyme]

I agree, and that is a completely different matter.

What I'm trying to say is that the offer isn't all that bad, and certainly not bad enough to strike over.

Reading comments made by, for example, Kraut aren't helping our situation at all. I can understand why he is upset about his wage, he suddenly has to start paying tax! As much of of a shock that might be, the people based in germany could not expect this to last forever.
To then complain and say 'we' only have a 0.7% payrise and LTU in germany have a 1,2% payrise isn't fair according to me.
First of all, the inflation has dropped in the UK, so for UK based people the actual increase is slightly higher. Second of all, once more, the european bases get even more spendable income.

Do I think we should split the pilot community up? defenitely not. I think we should all be unionised and have one negotiating team for the whole community.
Pay increases shouldn't talk about RPI anymore, it doesn't reflect our european operation. Rather give us the number we get(what has happened) and then we can compare for ourselves whether it is worth it.
A majority vote would give the final vote, simple as that.

[HundredPercentPlease]

Albertoli,

I like your assumptions! You have a great talent to assume stuff about me and then argue to me that your assumptions are correct. Amazing stuff.

I wrote it before, and I'll write it again. I started the command assessment process last year, at 3004 factored hours. I have now passed it all. I worked for a long while at a base where you are limited by duty hours, not block hours - so my annual hours are around 700 to 750.

you will be on a salary of say around £85000 (an educated guess)

I wonder where you gained your education to make such a guess? My salary will be £61,913, rising to £68,792. Sorry to bore you with the facts.

Now, which other airline will give you command with your experience level in 5 years of joining the company? Well I can think of 5 in the UK.

Just because I accepted the job offer at easyJet, doesn't mean I'm not right to vote no if I think the deal is poor, compared to the rest of the market.

[Kraut]

I can understand why he is upset about his wage, he suddenly has to start paying tax! As much of of a shock that might be, the people based in germany could not expect this to last forever.

Sorry, EASYME, total Bull..t!

There are a lot of german pilots paying tax since years (as I do)! I mentioned this already that we pay now more tax than before.
Thinking of a bigger picture, compared to you, I am not concerned about the percentage ONLY. I fear future complications by making EZY management stronger NOW!
The example of the LTU paydeal should make it transparent, that EZY management is not reflecting the superb profit of this year to it´s pilots!

Ok with me, if you like that deal. I do not!


Take your pay raise and be happy! And observe the strategical change of employment at EZY!

[easyme]

Kraut,

First of all, I am sorry to forget about your 5% tax you paid - I stand corrected completely.

I still don't know why you are hanging on to the LTU deal. It only makes the deal look better for the german bases!

Like you, I am looking at the big picture and I am only suggesting you should keep your banners in the closet for a while, the bases aren't split up by this deal.
As soon as the company offers local RPI+0.7% I suggest you get them out. And it might suprise you, but I will get them out as well, even though the london bases will probably be better of through it. Things like this will hurt our position and not the pay increase offered.

And in terms of sharing in the profits of the company - We are employees and therefore paid for the job we do. If the company is making losses you would probably still demand your payrise because other companies are offering them and you had nothing to do with the losses the company has made.
Market conditions are probably the biggest factor in how large our payrise is going to be and with the offer for unpaid leave and Indigo I think you know yourself were we are.

So if your banners said - I want a fair deal! I suggest you change them to :I want my local contract and get the same payrise as everyone else!

Or if you want to look at the bigger picture put them away and vote yes.

[CaptainProp]

Easyme - Im sorry, but are you on one side saying that you think voting yes for this "deal" is the way to go, and then on the other hand you are saying "Do I think we should split the pilot community up? definitely not. I think we should all be unionized and have one negotiating team for the whole community." ?? Then you are also claiming that "and certainly not bad enough (the pay deal. my remark) to strike over".

I think, and its just a thought, a quite scary one too, that this way of looking at our situation is exactly what will eventually get us down on our knees and take away the last bit of respect that we, ourselves, and our industry leaders have left for us. This is NOT about the 4% or 5% or whatever would be negotiated at this stage. It is about the arrogance and total lack of respect that our company has showed towards us and BALPA in the past 6 months. Im talking about how the MAD base contracts has been dealt with, all the problems our colleagues are still facing in MXP and ORY, years after the bases have been opened. Im talking about the use, or should I say abuse of the recent crew survey?

I truly believe that now is the time to say no. Now is the battle a lot of people are referring to as "keep the powder dry for the real battle". If not now, then you can keep that powder dry for as long as you´d like, because there will be no more battles to fight.

Local contracts will follow, splitting up the union making it impossible to negotiate ANYTHING! Random rostering WILL follow. We have a CEO who have made statements along the line of "There must be other ways of doing this" ie other ways to roster us. Before someone says "Yea, but if that happens THEN my powder will be dry for a battle" - Sorry....then it will be too late. We will have local contracts and a weaker union. Once the "continent" is split into local bases it will be a piece of cake to push T&Cs down to lows never seen before in a British (ex British by then) company.
Based in The UK? Watch as they will start over-crewing continental bases and then operating the "extra" crew in to the UK bases, doing your job, for less money, less pension (no pension??), no sick pay, no loss of licence etc etc. Make people redundant on UK contracts? The other base/company can operate the routes instead. Each base/country will be a seperate company so the UK employment laws are worth zero for us and so will BALPA be. They can not negotiate for these new "companies".

Good luck to all of us.

[Bokkenrijder]

I followed the advice from somebody that posted on the BALPA site and that is to disregard the emotional issues like going on strike, but only looked at the deal on the table.

I simply think that that deal is a bad one, so I voted no.
For some continental bases it's ok if you purely look at inflation, but don't forget the extra bills facing us with regards to tax, social security and local contracts. For the UK bases it is also a lousy deal as taxes and social security stay the same, but inflation is going through the roof.

I truly believe that now is the time to say no. Now is the battle a lot of people are referring to as "keep the powder dry for the real battle". If not now, then you can keep that powder dry for as long as you´d like, because there will be no more battles to fight. Absolutely right!

Balls and a spine eh? There are a lot of miner out there who thought the same as you 20 years a go. They have balls and a spine but no job? If the company was making a loss and managers were not handing themselves a £900K bonus, the I agree with your statement. It's not my goal to bankrupt the company, it's my belief that we should be rewarded for the very hard work we do and should participate in the success of the company!

[albertoli]

Right Way Up

I do not know where you get the impression that I am wound up by easyjet pay - I can assure you I am not.

easyme

Well said!

Hundredpercentpleae

Ok which 5 airlines is it that you could have earned more than the easy captain's pay (68K as you say) and had a command in 4+ years of joining especially given your limited experience level?

Vote how you like, it is your choice. It is often the case that people accept a job with a company and once they are in they moan about their T&Cs.

Kraut

You may have been paying taxes in Germany but it was very little compared to the UK guys. Bottom line is that given the current tax situation, the German pilots got paid more than their UK counterparts for doing the same job.

[Kraut]

You may have been paying taxes in Germany but it was very little compared to the UK guys. Bottom line is that given the current tax situation, the German pilots got paid more than their UK counterparts for doing the same job.
I never said something different!
What do you think, the waiting list to Germany was that long?? Just because of Germany!?
Now, I guess, the waiting list to Germany is much shorter.
Which is ok, gives it the chance for guys to go to Germany for lifestyle only.

[Right Way Up]

Right Way Up

I do not know where you get the impression that I am wound up by easyjet pay - I can assure you I am not.

Possibly because of the amount of times you have posted on this thread about a company you don't work for.:rolleyes:

[ZBMAN]

It is often the case that people accept a job with a company and once they are in they moan about their T&Cs.


If this is what you think, then I am afraid you have not understood the problem we have. After all, you don't work for easyJet so everything you hear is second hand (your mate).

I think most of us are generally satisfied with the t&c's. After all this is partly why I joined. However I would say that your argument about knowing what we signed for is flawed, as one can only be certain of what it is like to work for a certain company by experiencing it first hand. Everything you hear from someone else, employee or company, is strongly biased. Now, I am not saying I am disatisfied to work for easyJet, before you jump to conclusions as you usually do. Indeed I enjoy my job, but this is not to say I also believe we deserve more recognition from management. Without the goodwill we show everyday not a single eJ aircraft would depart on time. If our current management continues to believe we only deserve a mere pat on the back, and a dismal pay rise, if our ops director thinks he can get away with being condescending and confrontational with our representatives, then one day the goodwill will be gone, and the network will grind to a screeching halt.

Your mate could also tell you that the current pay deal is only slightly better than the previous one which was strongly rejected. I am not going to vote yes to a deal which is essentially the same as the one I voted against a few months previously. And if this causes us to have ballot for IA so be it. I refuse to betray myself and what I think is right, sorry.

[Caudillo]

Without the goodwill we show everyday not a single eJ aircraft would depart on time

I could count on the fingers of somebody with no hands the number of times I've seen an ezy depart on time.

[ZBMAN]

I could count on the fingers of somebody with no hands the number of times I've seen an ezy depart on time.

67% departed within 15mn of etd this morning. Room for improvement perhaps, but cetainly not as bad as you seem to think.

[Caudillo]

This is only a guess, but even that (pisspoor) figure is more than likely sustained by a handful of bases, masking the fact that others are about as punctual as the trains.

I wonder how long I'd last if I used the same criteria to time my arrival to the crew room.

[ZBMAN]

Nope sorry to dissapoint you caudillo, this a network average, and it is not a guess. Can you tell why is this figure piss poor?

If you have nothing more meaningful to say on this topic other than that I suggest you stop waisting your time and mine.

[Santas Little Helper]

Whats all this rubbish about goodwill? You pilots ought to come down from the clouds sometimes and then you would realise that you are not doing the company a big favour by turning up for work. In fact you might like to read your contract of employment and find out what the company expects from you as part of your normal duties.
As someone else has already stated, salaries are generally dictated by market forces relating to in this case the employment of pilots. If I were voting I would take this into consideration before rejecting the offer out of hand

[Kraut]

Go and help Santa to prepare xmas!:zzz:

[Bokkenrijder]

Whats all this rubbish about goodwill? You pilots ought to come down from the clouds sometimes and then you would realise that you are not doing the company a big favour by turning up for work. Obviously you are not a pilot and you don't realize that most of us turn up at least 20 minutes early every day in order to have adequate time to do our pre-flight preparations such as getting all the paperwork (flight plans, weather, NOTAM's etc) and reviewing it. The reason that most airlines don't schedule this working time is because they would otherwise run into problems with maximum duty hours, something you (baggage loader/dispatcher/COO/SLF) don't have to worry about.

As someone else has already stated, salaries are generally dictated by market forces relating to in this case the employment of pilots. If I were voting I would take this into consideration before rejecting the offer out of hand Well...you are not voting, because you are not a pilot. :rolleyes: :p

[ZBMAN]

Whats all this rubbish about goodwill? You pilots ought to come down from the clouds sometimes and then you would realise that you are not doing the company a big favour by turning up for work. In fact you might like to read your contract of employment and find out what the company expects from you as part of your normal duties.
As someone else has already stated, salaries are generally dictated by market forces relating to in this case the employment of pilots. If I were voting I would take this into consideration before rejecting the offer out of hand

Obviously you don't have a clue what you're talking about.

I will be nice by trying to explain to you what we mean by goodwill. One simple example among others. We are required to report for duty one hour before ETD. Experience shows this simply not enough to check in, get the paperwork, check weather NOTAMS, NTC's, brief ourselves and CC, walk to the aircraft, battle through security, do all our preflight checks, and go. In fact if we all turned up at ETD-1, as the book says, not a single flight would depart on time. This is why I personnaly turn up at least at ETD-1hr15 or even -1hr20. Needless to say I am not paid for these extra minutes, nor will these minutes count towards my duty time. This is what I mean by "goodwill". We could also give up trying to improve slots, negotiate direct routings with ATC, or chase up a missing fuel truck or caterer. There are many examples of how our "goodwill" enables the company to maintain a decent-ish schedule.

So you see, our job involves slighly more than just turning up for work as you say. I wouldn't lecture you on how to do your job (whatever it is), so please refrain from lecturing us. Thanks.

[ZBMAN]

Bokkenrijder,

you are quicker than me!

cheers!:ok:

[Bokkenrijder]

Actually Kraut was the quickest and his reply is even better because: "never argue with a fool. They drag you down to their level then beat you with experience."

;)

[Santas Little Helper]

Still in the clouds then!!?

[CaptainProp]

.......AND there is ALWAYS something that is late, missing, expired (slots, flightplans) etc etc...Lets try this - Call NMC everytime this happens...ie 800+ calls a day, then see what the result will be. :ok: Or maybe when pilots are down in the hold trying to help find a bag or two that is on-board, that should not be there, to try to make the slot....yes - have seen it several times....
Yes, we are hired and paid to fly the routes and are expected to help out with getting the job done on time etc...But there is alot of goodwill going on that we could stop with without risking to breach our employment contracts. Most of us are still willing to do this, but for how long?

[Caudillo]

Zbman what I meant was that I was making a guess, rather than the figures being guesswork.

Being an average, the contribution of the constituent bases and rotations is impossible to discern from the figure. I believe that there are some bases that shore this figure up through consistent punctuality, whilst many others drag it down.

You ask why I think it's pisspoor?

Because the schedule is unrealistic, that's why. You can make on time departure 90%+ assuming nothing too out of the ordinary. Much in the same vein as performance figures, the timetabling simply has to reflect the realities of the operation rather than an idealised model.

[ZBMAN]

Because the schedule is unrealistic, that's why. You can make on time departure 90%+ assuming nothing too out of the ordinary. Much in the same vein as performance figures, the timetabling simply has to reflect the realities of the operation rather than an idealised model.

I agree with what you say. 25 mn for a turnaround in CIA, well, let me see...:hmm:. This is not to say we don't work damn hard to adhere as much as we can to the schedule, that's why I took the comment "pisspoor" a little personnaly.
We do our best you know...

[Kraut]

Besides LTU, DABA, now also LUFTHANSA goes on strike.

Could it be that there is a "historical mentality change" between the UK and Germany?

Long time ago, there were more strikes in the UK (before M. Thatcher) than in Germany.
Nowadays it looks totally different! Interesting times!:)


http://www.abcmoney.co.uk/news/282007125054.htm

[nuageblanc]

Well, well...
the thing is that if you go on strike, you will damage Easyjet's reputation :E
It's a low cost you know. Lufthansa is a totaly different structure than Easyjet, they can afford strikes... not Easyjet.



25 mn for a turnaround in CIA, well, let me see...:hmm:. This is not to say we don't work damn hard to adhere as much as we can to the schedule


Zbman, you are jocking ? Does it take you 25 minutes to prepare the FMS to go back to your next destination ? Normally it takes less than 10 minutes to get the aircraft completely ready (Atis, FMS, clearance, etc).
25 min turnaround is hard for a 319, but hard for cabin crew !!!... not for pilots :=

Guillaume.

[SmokeAndNoise]

hehe mate :D On behalf of the international ppruners I would like to take the opportunity to thank you for that piece of insight! Maybe now we can finally make those 25 min turnarounds. All we need to do is train our crew to program that FMS faster. Maybe one pilot could listen to the ATIS while the other one programs? ...are you on line yet? Good luck when you get there :ok: [Insert sarcasm as needed]

[nuageblanc]

yes honney, I am in line.

But I am not at Easyjet, so it means that I fly only in quiet airspaces, in sunny blue sky only, with no wind (se posts of zbman above :}) and I have less bits to do during my turnaround.
My god, you have so many things to do in order to get the a/c ready during your turnaround that you would need at least 1 hour to do it !! 25 minutes is not enough for you isnt it ?

------> go on strike then ! :ok:

[Bokkenrijder]

But I am not at Easyjet... Great! All those wannabee people who are not in EZY, but all know better how to vote regarding our pay deals and how to program the FM(G)S.

Lemme guess... Are you related to albertoli? :rolleyes:

[Caudillo]

My god, you have so many things to do in order to get the a/c ready during your turnaround that you would need at least 1 hour to do it !! 25 minutes is not enough for you isnt it ?

Nuageblanc, perhaps you noticed that Zbman picked CIA as an example of somewhere he thought 25 minutes is unrealisitic. That might suggest to you in one of your more lucid moments that certain airports bring certain difficulties.

25 min turnaround is hard for a 319, but hard for cabin crew !!!... not for pilots

As I'm sure you're aware, not everything depends on pilot performance. On turnarounds it's rarely if ever a limiting factor.

So you mention cabin crew, well you can't take off if they're not ready, neither can you land. By the same token, even if the fms is programmed to fly you where you're going upside down, if they're not ready, neither can you board passengers. Besides, cabin crew are also rarely if ever the source of delays. If anybody has a problem, be it the cabin crew, the fueller, the ramp staff, the dispatcher, the loaders, the disabled passenger, the people in ops, the ATC, the guy trying to push back behind you or even god forbid, the pilots - then that will eat into your turnaround time.

[PPRuNeUser0178]

Clearly naugeblanc or whatever the **** he is called needs to do the FMS set up so quick so so that the Captain who babysits him can change his nappy!

I sincerley hope that I never have the displeasure of sharing a flight deck with this little s***.

He clearly knows nothing and has no experience to draw in whatsoever, apart from being a whizz on the FMS of course!

Now for the last time if you are not in EasyJet, you are not in a position to comment, just as I cannot comment on your operation so carry on playing with your blocks and leave the Easy disscussion to the Easy people, or at least to those with a measure of experience in the industry - you should really try listening to some people on here you may actually learn something!

Now, must try this ignore function everyone is talking about!:ok:

[F4F]

yes honney, I am in line.
Love that sugar, yes, you're in line of sight alright :p

live 2 fly 2 live

[ZBMAN]

Zbman, you are jocking ? Does it take you 25 minutes to prepare the FMS to go back to your next destination ? Normally it takes less than 10 minutes to get the aircraft completely ready (Atis, FMS, clearance, etc).

Thanks nuage blanc, you have just shown everyone that the only place you fly a CRJ is in your head. Given your ignorance and total lack of knowledge of operational matters involved in aircraft operations, I'm not even sure you could fly one in flight simulator.

Please leave the discussion to professionals.

[nuageblanc]

Thanks nuage blanc, you have just shown everyone that the only place you fly a CRJ is in your head. Given your ignorance and total lack of knowledge of operational matters involved in aircraft operations, I'm not even sure you could fly one in flight simulator.

Please leave the discussion to professionals.


:} oh yes, zbman you are right (once again !) , 25' is not enough to prepare the aircraft. everybody is wanabee, everybody flies at flight simimualtor ..
around 200 Easyjet aircraft are doing 25 minutes turnaround every day anyway (you are not the only one to be superman, I am sorry to say ).

Just relax J.M. !! Andy Harrisson will laught at you ;)

[SmokeAndNoise]

I was about to write a reply explaining the process of a turnaround and the scheduled block times versus actual block times and assigned turnaround times in easyJet and airlines in general. Also I thought about summing up as many external factors affecting OTP as I could to make the picture more clear...

Then decided not too, because I have neither time nor patience to try and teach you what you what you will eventually learn on line, Nuageblanc.

Sorry for being condescending but these are the facts.

As for easyJet not being able to afford a strike, well: easyJet is making sh*tloads of money. LH, BA, and AF etc. still have the long haul to justify their existence (ok, I'm painting a dark picture here:8). Aviation is changing. What will happen when the LoCo "plague" spreads to long haul? ...you do the math!

From a pilots point of view I think it's a matter of getting what we can now, as the market is in our favor. It changes fast when it does!

[ZBMAN]

everybody is wanabee

Not everyone, you are right... but you definitely are. You seem to ignore facts that even a CPL student would consider self-evident.

You seem to think that the only thing affecting a turnaround is FMS loading.
You seem to ignore totally the fact that some airfields are more congested than others.
You seem to be oblivious to the fact that sometimes fuel or luggage doesn't turn up, that sometimes passengers go missing, that baggage belts break down etc...
Ever heard of slots? Ever been in BCN in summer? If you had you would understand that 25 mn, or 30 mn or even 45 mn on some occasions is not enough.

You have absolutely no clue whatsoever what an aircraft turnaround involves. I can't believe a serious airline would let you anywhere near one of it's aircraft.

everybody flies at flight simimualtor .. a simimualtor ?! Is this some kind of sex toy :confused:. Suit yourself mate! :}

Nuageblanc, I think you are a little confused. Very entertaining reading, please continue.

Why is it that you care so much about what's going on in easyJet, now that you fly for a "proper" albeit imaginary airline? Oh, and would you please refresh my memory, as you seem to know me, but I certainly can't remember someone called Guillaume pretending to fly for Britair.

SmokeAndNoise is right, I shouldn't waste my time with you but I must admit I find it quite entertaining to see how far you actually go in showing all of us that the likeliness of you being an airline pilot is about as remote as making a successful 25 min turnaround in BCN these days. ie, zero.

As for easyJet not being able to afford a strike, well: easyJet is making sh*tloads of money.

absolutely true. The company has huge cash reserves. Which makes me say that they could indeed "afford" a strike with no problem. Cor's bonus could take a blow though...

From a pilots point of view I think it's a matter of getting what we can now, as the market is in our favor. It changes fast when it does!My feeling exactly. Share price is back up, no more excuses.

[UP and Down Operator]

naugeblanc: Why don't you just **** off to somewhere else??

Create a forum for your own fantasy airline and get out of a forum for EZY people. You stated you don't work for EZY so you have nothing to do here, and you clearly knows nothing about what is going on anywhere, be it EZY, the cockpits or the industry in general.

You are waste of space !!!

[nuageblanc]

Zbman, there are not a lot of guys having flown for monarch and then easyjet and being never ever happy :{

Sorry, but because the refueling takes long sometimes, because there are 2 or 3 missing pax stuck in the airport security screening, because there is sometimes an ATC slot due to congestions, because we have to take the hold at some arrivals, beacuse of that you are claiming more monney, and threatening your managers of a strike ? :}:}
May I remind you that in all airlines we have the same problems at the airport (slots, missing fluel, slow loading, etc, etc). It is the same at Easyjet, at ryanair, at air france, at Lufthansa, at monarch, everywhere ! and I dont really see why the flight deck crew are claiming more monney for those reasons that we cant really do anything about as a pilot !

Instead of showing yourself egocentric, and pathetic you should at least recognise that the most challenging part of a 25 minutes turnaround is performed by your cabin crew who are disembarking your 150 pax ish, cleaning the disgusting cabin, and boarding another 150 pax with all safety measures.

[PPRuNeUser0178]

What a tw*t

[Bokkenrijder]

I would even go the other way and guess that a successful LoCo is in a better position to afford a strike than a traditional flag carrier. Most LoCo's make profit after profit, while the more established airlines struggle.

The fact is unfortunately that most pilots in those flag carrier actually have pride and self esteem and will therefore fight to improve their lives. Or at least they are willing to fight to stop the rot that is taking place in this industry.

On the other hand, most LoCo pilots are gullible sheep that are easily led to the slaughterhouse. Working harder, paying for their type rating, getting a ****ty pension, getting fed crappy crew meals, enduring the stressful turnarounds day after day while the companies are raking in the cash.

LoCo pilots are very good in procrastinating, "keeping their powder dry for the next battle," or instead prefer to complain about trivial things. Very few pilots for LoCo's come from established airlines that are willing to fight for a well balanced life with regards to fatigue, work, money and health.
Instead they are the blue collar workers of aviation: give em enough dough for a flat screen TV, feed them on fish and chips and they are fat, dumb and sort of happy.

Another reason for the rot in the LoCo industry is that many pilots come from small outfits that have gone bankrupt at one time or another, something which has left most of them traumatized and afraid to fight for good terms and conditions. They are so naive that they believe that by asking for a fair remuneration, they are going to bankrupt the company. :ugh:

The company knows this and is doing a very good job at dividing and conquering and hiring the right people. While in the mean time, the sweatshop managers are awarding themselves bonus after bonus, believing they are worth it and not the least bit concerned about bankrupting the company...

And BALPA? Their are just reacting (usually too late) to what they are observing. Be it the DDO's, the fatigue 'training,' the fatigue training compensation/sector pay, the reserve period, the current pay deal. Giant loopholes everywhere, just waiting for the company to exploit. A total lack of foresight... :{

[ZBMAN]

Zbman, there are not a lot of guys under the name of ... having flown for monarch and then easyjet and being never ever happy :{


I don't know you sir, but somehow you know me... However if you really knew who I am you never say I am never happy. In fact at the moment, I am quite satisfied. I've got the base I want, and I love my job, and the people I work with. I joined on the assumption that the new management was a bit more pilot-friendly than the previous one, and I must say I am terribly disappointed. I am worried that with their attitude, our conditions could change drasticaly for the worst once we get a new contract. The only thing they will have difficulty reducing is our pay. This is why we NEED to secure the best pay deal now. Contrary to your belief, I am not thinking just about me. I have a young family you see, and my guess is that with the new contracts we can all kiss goodbye to fixed pattern rostering. This is why we must show resolve NOW. Then we stand a better chance. If we wait we will be screwed. I want to still be able to plan my life and take care of my family. Maybe, just maybe, you'll grow up and then you'll understand.

beacuse of that you are claiming more monney, and threatening your managers of a strike ?No, you haven't understood a single word of all the different posts here. I'm getting worried about your IQ at this stage, and to imagine you might be flying my family somewhere in the future sends chills along my spine. Even though I think you have never flown a CRJ let alone a Cessna, I will try not to fly Britair just to be safe.:E

and I dont really see why the flight deck crew are claiming more monney for those reasons that we cant really do anything about as a pilot !see above. Struggling with the english language are we?

that the most challenging part of a 25 minutes turnaround is performed by your cabin crew who are disembarking your 150 pax ish, cleaning the disgusting cabin, and boarding another 150 pax with all safety measures.That's the only sensible words that have come out from your cheeky little mouth so far. I will add that I have never, ever been delayed due to our cabin crew not being ready. But if you think the cabin is the only limiting factor affecting a turnaround then you are seriously mistaken my friend.

I understand better your limited knowledge of our job, now. My guess is that you are now line checked... as Cabin Crew! Congratulations!

I will now stop replying to your nonsense.

[Santas Little Helper]

Well now Brokkenrider & ZBBoy, I am really puzzled by your latest posts which appear to defending easyjet while at the same time slagging them off. Although there may be some truth in what Brokkenrider says about LoCo and Balpa, anyone reading these posts cannot but fail to be impressed by the way any discussions by these "professional" pilots always seem to degenerate into childish slanging matches.
I wonder, are these guys are actually allowed to command passenger carrying jet airliners?

[Bokkenrijder]

...appear to defending easyjet while at the same time slagging them off...

Well, my point is that we are our own worst enemy by not sticking together, and EZY is using that in a very effective way against us.

I'm not defending EZY though...reread my post(s) please!

[ZBMAN]

Well now Brokkenrider & ZBBoy, I am really puzzled by your latest posts which appear to defending easyjet while at the same time slagging them off.

Sorry I just can't see the contradiction between the fact that I enjoy my job, and the fact that I believe pilots deserve a tad more recognition in the orange world. What we asked wasn't much. Don't worry this won't affect your bonus, Santa. I would never slag easyJet off, as you say. The company is much, much more than just it's management, which you seem to be part of.

If you can't understand this you need to get your head checked...

[albertoli]

ZBMAN

"Without the goodwill we show everyday not a single eJ aircraft would depart on time"

I agree with Santas Little Helper on this one, and I am sorry to differ! Is that not what you are paid to do??

I believe all other airlines report 1 hour before departure.

"We could also give up trying to improve slots, negotiate direct routings with ATC, or chase up a missing fuel truck or caterer. There are many examples of how our "goodwill" enables the company to maintain a decent-ish schedule"

Is this not called being a PROFESSIONAL pilot??

"I am quite satisfied. I've got the base I want, and I love my job, and the people I work with"

All this and a stable roster and you still moan.

As I said before some people will never be happy. I am sure if you got the unrealistic pay deal that you expect you will only find something else to maon about.

"This is why we NEED to secure the best pay deal now".

I consider that now will not satisfy you, and you will be moaning about your pay every year.

Bokkenrijder

I think it is about time you left LoCo flying. It is clearly not for you.

It is dissappointing to see some of the comments and abuse nuageblanc is getting. I think some people on this forum need to take a "chill Pill".

It also disappointing that anyone who disagrees with the few negative comments here are either accused of being management or that they need to get their head checked. Given that there are over 1500 pilots in easyjet (so my mate says), the percentage posting about this issue is extremely low. Maybe it is not such a big issue for others but I am sure time will tell.

I think strike action will pi** o** a lot of people not least your customers and you need their loyalty to survive this very competative industry. You will also not get any sympathy from the public because they consider that you are already paid enough for the job you do.

[Bokkenrijder]

Bokkenrijder

I think it is about time you left LoCo flying. It is clearly not for you. there are over 1500 pilots in easyjet (so my mate says)I think it's about time you join EZY! ;)

Anyway, since you have nothing useful to say on this subject I will put you on the ignore list. (Wonderful feature!)

Enjoy your current job, have lot's of interesting chats with your 'mate' about how great EZY is and good luck with your next attempts to pass the EZY selection! :ok:

[nuageblanc]

Zbman wrote:
If you think his point is valid you have not understood what MY point was. I have flown with others airlines than easyJet,



Zbman, ( my friend Jean -Marc C.), before Easyjet you were a CTC cadet at Monarch out of manchester (always complaining), and before that you were a wanabee somewhere in the East of France ! so please be honest with you, be honest with us !
I think you are a bit young, you need to learn what life is, and you will find out that Easyjet is not so bad, and if Easyjet is very bad, just leave it and you will be replaced by one of the thousands guys in the current deep holding pool :ok:

Guillaume.

[Office Pest]

I tell you what ZB MAN - if I were in your shoes I would be dying to give a very few of the posters on this site their "totties" as they say up my way. I trust you and the family are well.

Best regards,

Office Pest

[Toolongincruise]

Hello All,

Would someone mind private messaging me the current deal for U.K based EZY pilots.
I used to fly for EZY based at LTN and am now overseas however keen to return at some stage.
Good luck to all at EZY and BALPA!!

[Kraut]

Toolongincruise,

there is no "Deal for UK based pilots"?!
What do you mean exactly?

[gunka]

Nuageblanc you just crossed the line. No need to identify anyone, whole idea is to speak your mind without fearing repercussions. I'm no Inspector Cluseau but have identified the target of your misplaced, ill informed crock of sh*te. If you want to play that game tell us your name if not shut the :mad: up and go start an argument on a forum that actually applies to you

[superced]

Nuage blanc

Tes un bel enfoire!!

[rubik101]

If there ever is a ballot in this seemingly unending saga, I would be most surprised if the vote is any better than 30% in favour of a strike.
Some people, even some French people, seem to be born to strike. It is in their reactionary and revolutionary genes but most of the time they spout rhetoric which makes a lot of noise but means very little.
Get on with it, for heaven's sake.

[Bokkenrijder]

People don't vote in favour of a strike, people vote against a lousy pay offer. There's a fundamental difference in that...

[chec tunset]

Not this time they didn't :ugh:

[CaptainProp]

No, not this time either...:uhoh: Gotto be nice to be manager in ezy, you can pull just about any b****t because the pilot force will just roll over and accept it anyway!

[5150]

Members have accepted pay offer - 68% voted yes.

[Siggur]

I'm not surprised, same old story...
First offer strongly rejected, second marginally better offer (and I do mean marginally!) is then accepted....
Not sure there is going to be any powder left for future battles now, but if at least the CC wouldn't "recommend" offers in the future, thereby forcing the pilot community to use their brains!
How the company managed to blackmail the CC in accepting this offer, I will never know!
:ugh: :ouch:

[FunFlyin]

So,
Could someone possibly explain the offer that has just been accepted to someone currently floating in the hold pool?
:p

[5150]

FunFlyin:

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=285690

[superced]

Me too. Need to get some explanation about this deal?(not clear) and what is the main advantage to join Balpa. Iam Currently in the holding pool As Fo Direct entry.

thanks futur colleague really need information.

[Cleared ILS approach]

Hi all,
It's a 2 years deal.
We will get 4,7% payrise on the basic gross salary (as from 01/10/08) and the RPI (official increase in the cost of living) which is about 4% on the sector pay.
Next year it will be RPI +0,5% on basic gross and on RPI only on sector pay.
We get sick pay extension from 3 to 6 months.
Also slight increase on the pension.
All the rest remain the same as on the web site.
Hope this help.
Regards

[Sky Wave]

We will get 4,7% payrise on the basic gross salary (as from 01/10/08

01/10/2007?

[Cleared ILS approach]

Sorry,

4,7% as from 01/10/07

RPI + 0,5% as from 01/10/08

[rubik101]

I hate to say 'I told you so' but I will anyway.

If there ever is a ballot in this seemingly unending saga, I would be most surprised if the vote is any better than 30% in favour of a strike.

[Kraut]

rubik 101

just to make you not to "overconfident", but if all continent ballot papers would have been arrived, the percentage number probably could be a different one.
However, I admit, it still would have been a YES vote.
Still wondering, if comparing the airline union activities on the continent compared to EZY pilot community (see LH, DBA, LTU, AB).
Anyway: TILT - GAME OVER for the pilots.
For management: MORE BONUSES for sure.

End of story!:\

[Bokkenrijder]

Very good points Kraut.

Congrats to the likes of Rubik101! I hope you are happy that you avoided industrial action by chickening out and 'keeping your powder dry for the next battle.' This pay deal was not so much about numbers (nickel and dimeing about 0.5% here or there), it was more a show of strength (or rather weakness...) and now it's clear who the winner is.

The @sses of the pilot community have been presented on a golden plater to the management and the door is now wide open for: local EU contracts, random rostering, less leave, no loyalty bonus etc. The worldwide economy is slowing down, it only takes one big airline (Alitalia?) to go t!ts up and then management/Cor will be able to dictate the terms in 2008/2009 under the motto "take it or leave it."

As for local European contracts: don't underestimate the effect this will have on the BALPA membership numbers. Most in Italy, Germany, France and Spain will not see a reason to either join or stay with BALPA.

This in turn will further weaken BALPA, so I hope people are not so naive to think that random rostering in combination with some kind of bidding system will be a taboo subject in the near future.

Don't start crying when this whole lifestyle issue (or any further deterioration in terms and conditions) blows up in your face next year. Just try to remember the following: "we told you so!" :ouch:

[Fifty Above]

Bokkenrijder,

If you spent less time being angry and more time considering the implications of reduced Balpa membership then you'd realise that it is precisely this point that has resulted in you feeling soooo hard-done by.

Bob Crowe of the RMT is currently engaged in a "show of strength" with TfL over the Metronet issue. He came out with a priceless soundbite yesterday - he said: "We're goin' on strike 'coz they ain't givin' us wot we want!"

Presumably Bokka you'd prefer to have the RMT conducting your negotiations and instigating strike action - it might work once but in the process you'd alienate all your passengers and destroy whatever goodwill has been built up with the management, then easyJet would become just like Ryanair.

The only "show of strength" you want is 95-100% Balpa membership so maybe you'd be better off getting recruiting and venting your spleen at all those who don't pay Union subs rather than those that do!!

[Bokkenrijder]

then easyJet would become just like Ryanair. EZY already is hard on the way to becoming another Ryanair. The more it looks like Ryanair, the bigger the bonuses for management! That's the whole point!

Anyway, I hope I'm wrong, but I fear that Dutchjock was right when he was talking about orange harps (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?p=3465186&highlight=harp#post3465186) a couple of pages back in this same thread.

Let's agree to disagree. The future will tell who's right and who's wrong. :\

[macky]

Just wait for the announcement that Easy have made RECORD RECORD RECORD profits over the summer period.

How stupid are we gonna feel after accepting such a rubbish pay offer after the announcement on profits, and a two year deal as well !!!!

We are stuck with it now. So glad we kept our powder dry :ugh:

Maybe we should vote YES to random rostering and 1100 hrs a year. Well it will make the company more profitable and give the managers more bonuses so why not. :eek:

[jetjockey737]

To be honest Macky I have resigned myself to the fact that I will have a random roster ( with an alleviation to allow me to do 5 earlies in a row!), will do 1100 hours a year, will never see a pension contribution in double figures, will never see private medical/health insurance, will continue to eat crappy crew food etc etc etc for as long as I stay at EZY.

Then Andy Harrison and the rest will applaud each other when we announce £200+ million in profits this year ( his prediction of 193mill was conservative I believe). Give each other bonuses of 3 times their salaries, 900 grand in AH case, and pop off to claridges for a spot of lunch on the company credit card.

I have resigned myself to this because we have just allowed one hell of a s**t deal to be put through. I dont know when the rot is going to stop but I am now making a determined effort to get out.

Ezy could be a great company but it never will be....a great company recognises its employees worth.....I am worth a damn sight more than this!!

[Fifty Above]

Jetjockey - out of interest, where are you going to go that's so much better than easy?

[Kraut]

.................the future looKs terrible????????????????

Not really, but it doesn´t look bright either. Improvements will not easily (if at all!?) be achieved!
Our lovely dutch COO made his breakthrough (supported by the majority of pilots). I am sure, he will continue to prove how smart he is!
And the PLC board sure will love him!

[jetjockey737]

50 above- Dont know yet really. Trying to weigh up the options. Cathay, BA, EK,EY, Virgin.....Air wales!!!!! Really dont know. Not sure anywhere is ' so much better than ezy'....maybe I have had enough of the bulls**t having an orange tinge to it!!......do you know what I mean?

I would never say that EZY is the worst company out there, its not. I really do hope that it carries on in its success because alot of F/D and C/C have worked damned hard to make it achieve that success. But I cant stay here any longer, I am oranged out!!!

Where will I go? Who knows.......just hoping that someone will have me!!!

[rubik101]

Why don't you join Ryanair where you get random rostering, even though they say its 5/3 or 5/4 when you join, pay for your own rating and sim ride, don't get any mileage to get to the sim, no hotel if you need an overnight, pay for your own medical, pay for your own uniform, pay for you car park pass, do five earlies (IAA rules), get all leave applications rejected, lose 12 days of stolen leave each year, leaving you wih just 16 of your own choice, ignored queries to management, no mechanism to negotiate with said so-called management and DOL sits on 190 million pounds or euros or whatever. Come on over to the green side!
You really need to do some research before you bitch quite as much about your T&Cs and just where does it say that management don't deserve the bonuses thay are paid?

[jetjockey737]

If you care to read my thread rubik you will see that I did not mention ryan on my list of possible employers. Definitely not for me for all the reasons you have mentioned. Why do these forums degenerate into a 'my lot is worse than your lot' style debate?

I dont know what It is going to take but I really do hope that there is a huge change in T+Cs generally across the board...will it happen? I doubt it...

[rubik101]

JET737, my post wasn't aimed at you, just readers in general who might be considering RYR as an alternative.

[Bokkenrijder]

Rubik, the whole point is to stop EZY from becoming another Ryanair... :hmm:

JJ737, I see things the same way as you do. Wait till the Dec. share options (if we get them) and make a contingency plan for 2008.

[jetjockey737]

AH says something about us getting our options in his summer update today....pinch of salt until the dollar is in my bank.

bokrider- sounds like a plan. Think I am just fed up with all the crap!!!

[casper63]

Hey Easy Jet guys, can anyone please confirm the latest rumour floating around in India that around 20 A320 pilots from Easy Jet are going to India next month to fly with one of the new airlines there for a period of six months.:confused:

[5150]

That rumour is a fact Casper ;)

[Kraut]

They found some guys for questionable T&C´s!!:confused:
Again, our management will shake their hands and laugh about those smart pilots. And THEY make money on that contract!
Another battle lost! But, I am told, we have our powder dry for the next one!:eek:
Ha, ha!

[CaptainProp]

Yea, makes me wonder a bit. BALPA CLEARLY pointed out some quite big issues and "holes" in the so called contract for India. Still people signed up. :confused: They did not even have to read the through the contract, it was all laid out to the members by BALPA. "Life style opportunity" my a**! :eek:

[albertoli]

Well well.

68% yes vote, pretty conclusive.

[Kraut]

Albertoli,
as usual, you are not following the thread closely. If you quote the 68% as a fix number, you obviously did not read my posting, that lot of overseas votes did not get to the BALPA HQ.
I am sure, if all european votes received, the figure 68% would not be valid! For sure less!
But doesn´t matter anymore.

[Gary Lager]

albertoli

Gloat if you like, all the result shows is that a majority of EZY pilots (though perhaps a smaller majority than 68%, as Kraut has explained) agree with the idea that they ought to be satisfied with their terms and conditions.

Since we've now demonstrated that you are right, can you now please STFU, go away, and let grownups who actually give a f*** about EZY have their own discussion.

[CaptainProp]

....and (but) it was 68% out of the 67% who voted...
"68% yes vote, pretty conclusive. " -..not sure how conclusive that is...:ugh:

[albertoli]

I am not gloating at all at the result at all.

Gary Lager

There is absolutely no need to be rude, even though I do not agree with some of the threads here I have not been rude to anyone about what they have said. You may be a grown up but you do not appear to be very mature in what you say.

Given that you insinuate that you care you have only posted once on this thread. Perhaps it is you that needs to grow up and learn to listen to other people's points of view whether you agree with them or not! When you do it will be nice to hear from you - in a few years time.

[theloser1]

The fact of the matter is.

1. The " union " pushed for this deal.

2. There is a period of economic uncertainty around the corner.

3. Gone are the good old days ( I certainly havent experienced them )


I earn £ 77 000 per annum + sector pay + poor pension contribution + whatever other benefits. S*it life is not bad. Can we all get a reality caption.

For all you millitants out there I worked for the military for 14 years and easyjet for 8 years if you are unhappy do yourselves a favour and get a job that you enjoy.

Lets not pretend management give a f**k. I certainly dont give a £110000 f**k but I have a grand home life and have a laugh at work.

Jesus there a some really awful jobs out there.

Incoming

[Bokkenrijder]

Apparently the Dutchman is going around some crew rooms (MXP) saying that he wants to stop 5-3-5-4.

Has anyone heard the same, or are the heads still firmly stuck in the sand?

[Kraut]

.There is a period of economic uncertainty around the corner.

The guys opposing the deal were asking to have a participation of the the present "healthy financial year"

3. Gone are the good old days ( I certainly havent experienced them )

Where did you experience them? At EZY???

but I have a grand home life and have a laugh at work.

You are probably a 737 pilot? If you are on the Airbus, maybe the future will show, that you will not be that often at home!?

Jesus there a some really awful jobs out there.

I totally agree!! But why should I orientate myself at "awful jobs"??
Why not trying to improve my present job??

Anyway, I said it already, our dutch guy got strong due to this paydeal. We will hear more of his "thoughts"!