More Overseas Maintenance ! ! !

[The Mr Fixit]

Is it tru that the mighty roo is to go offshore once more ?

Was there not a sound lesson learned last time ?

What does it cost you in real terms ?

Is there any truth to this rumour ?

[blueloo]

Can you elaborate a bit? Which planes, where? etc etc?

[Going Boeing]

VH-OJE leaves Sydney about lunchtime on Mon 30 July for a "D" Check at SIAEC (where have I heard that name before). There are more supervisors going along than the number of LAME's required to do the "D" check in sydney. :ugh:

[Managers Perspective]

Is it tru that the mighty roo is to go offshore once more ?

Sounds like it.


Was there not a sound lesson learned last time ?

Not sure, certainly a lot of rumour and innuendo but nothing the respective regulators seemed to care much about.


What does it cost you in real terms ?

Cost who? Seems that it saves QANTAS a bucket load.


Is there any truth to this rumour ?

Sounds like it.


Note: "tru" has an "e" in it and there is no space before a question mark.

M.P.

[RedTBar]

MP say's.. "but nothing the respective regulators seemed to care much about"....NOW why would that be I wonder?

[The Mr Fixit]

Aww that sucks, can we do anything to prevent the staple gun coming out again ?

[blueloo]

Just wondering if a group could form together get to the corporations laws or other laws as appropriate so that in the event of an accident directly (or even partially) attributable to cheap cost cutting maintenance practices locally or overseas, can have the involved managers, directors and CEO held accountable in the criminal court as opposed to the civil court.

AT the moment If an accident occurs all that would happen is the company as a hole would be facing a class action, but that really is pointless unless the people responsible for the decisions are facing potential jail time.

[blackhander]

MP if you want to be pedantic re. punctuation manager's has an apostrophe before the s to denote ownership
eg. manager's car
manager's overblown salary
manager's inability to make a sound decision

[Balthazar_777]

Is it the fact that the work is going overseas, and therefore jobs in Australia being lost, that is the problem, or the quality of the work.

What would people think if a competitive MRO in Australia started attracting overseas work. ( I believe that there could be a chance of this in Melbourne).

If we are just becoming perocial, anti global and frustrated, then i think the argument was lost almost a generation ago. It was just that Qantas, being a relic of a government owned airline that never made a profit, was one of the last bastions to fall.

There seems to be many opportunities in this current climate for people who can think outside the box. I believe that the scope of the argument about outsourcing is so huge, so much so that it is outside the scope of any individual industry to fight it, that any rear guard action by Qantas employees will be in vain.

My suggestion is to anticipate cost cutting and take control of the agenda. In my company there are often more appropriate ways to cut costs that will satisfy both the shareholder and employee, but sometimes management misses the point. Engage management and manipulate things in the direction you want.

By the way, i am not suggesting that this is a better world, just being realistic and trying to make things work better.

[mrpaxing]

however what approach do you take when management is obsessed with short term shareholder returns? and of course the independant consultant recommends a very incentive based salary and bonuses.
i like SQ approach. i believe recently everyone got a four (4) month bonus, whatever rank they may have. that's called sharing the good and not so good times.:D

[Angle of Attack]

I agree while heaps of us bag the Singaporeans they come in 4-6 month bonuses and now 245k Captain salary on Tiger, haha its quite smart if you think about it! While we argue they poach, because all of us piss fart around but still dont achieve any results hmm

[DrPepz]

The four months bonus was last year. This year they got 6.07 months bonus. This excludes the 13th month of pay that most Singaporean employees get.

(How the 13th month works is, long long long long time ago, employees were paid every week. There are 52 weeks a year. Then one day in the seventies most companies in Singapore converted to a monthly pay scale. However, this meant that they got paid 12 months a year. But 12 months = 48 weeks. So that "loss" of 4 weeks was paid as a 13th month in December and the practice continues till today)

So yeah, SQ employees got paid 19.07 months this year. No, I don't work for them. Yes, I'm jeaous :cool:. Though do bear in mind that the SQ base pay is very low. Grads start at SGD2800 a month with good honours, though I think they raised it recently to $3000. However, I wouldn't complain if it were 19 months of pay!

[domo]

Qantas was run by pilots,
pilots love safe aircraft,
pilots love engineers,
qantas enginners maintained aircraft so well boeing asked qantas how to modify aircraft.
bookeepers took over qantas wanted to make money
to many qualified engineers(lames)
lets replace them with less skilled workers
no,lets save more money lets sack our skills base
lets run engineering into the ground and outsourse everything save more money.
the founders of qantas would be p***** off what you did to this once great company

[Nepotisim]

Nice words Domo.

Balthazar 777, it is probably more about the quality of work rather than who is doing it.

Qf heavy maint in Syd put out a high quality product, they weren't overly concerned about the cost or the time that it spent on the ground, they just punched out a good safe product that would last until the next D check.

Unfortunately bean counters have intervened and its all about time spent out of service and cost. If and when an accident occurs, the media and the public will be up in arms saying how could they let this happen, why didn't anyone speak up, why are we cutting costs on maintenance? The flying public will be equally to blame, all they want is the cheapest ticket they can buy and who can supply them that? The airline that spends the least amount of money on inflight service, pilots, engineers and maintenance!

Beancounter's thoughts are causing silly things to happen. When aircraft are going to major checks, be it in AVV BNE or SIN they will not attempt or schedule any extra work unless it was planned or budgeted for 10 weeks out. Instead it is planned to be fixed or attempted to be fixed in the minimal ground time outside of the major checks. Syd heavy used to take on anything and usually fixed it, but was over budget and over time, but QF got a good reliable aircraft.

Ahh well no more reminiscing, I will be accused of living in pity city (Bean counters wank word).

N

[RedTBar]

Nepotisim said.. "Unfortunately bean counters have intervened and its all about time spent out of service and cost. If and when an accident occurs, the media and the public will be up in arms saying how could they let this happen, why didn't anyone speak up, why are we cutting costs on maintenance?"

If the worst case happens and this is the result watch the "cover my back" routine from upper management.The blame will be put squarely on someone else..never those who made the decision.We put in place checks and layers to make sure this did not happen "

[The Bungeyed Bandit]

The QF1 departed late again yesterday after E & I guys found more dodgy repairs to EEL Lighting on VH-OJQ during maintenance checks. You guessed it - ex SIN D check A/C. More staples along with lockwire used to repair the strips in an attempt to maintain an electrical circuit. Not only that but the protective cover strips were incorrect material. The correct protective covers specified by the manufacturer are specifically designed to prevent damage and maintain the integrity of the system during service. What the geniuses in SIN used instead (probably due to a lack of correct parts) were decorative strips of fibreglass used to fill the gaps on cabin sidewalls.
The EEL lighting was replaced to the correct standard by QF personnel yesterday but an EA had to be sought from Tech Services for the continued use of incorrect cover strips until the correct material can be fitted at a later date. Yet again another example where our guys on the floor and Tech Services have to fix up the sub standard workmanship of overseas MROs all in the name of cost cutting.
If we were found to be performing maintenance on ATLAS A/C to this standard and were found out during an FAA audit QF would have their Workstation Authority pulled before you could say Singapore Sling.

[RedTBar]

Ok so now over to Managers Perspective to give us the company side of the story and how safety is not being compromised by cost cutting.

But MP said ""but nothing the respective regulators seemed to care much about"...

We are waiting MP ...:oh:

[Romulus]

Some spin going on, what's the goss?

This in from Crikey.com

---------------

4. Home truths about those Qantas staples
Ben Sandilands writes:

Qantas knows that the illegal stapling of electrical cabling in a 747-400 was done by one of its own employees and not in maintenance performed while the jet was being overhauled in Singapore last year.
What was a cause celebre for the Australian Licensed Aircraft Engineers Association in its campaign against offshore contracting and for alarmed Qantas pilots last week is now their worst nightmare.
It was shoddy work by an Australian worker in a Qantas hangar where management failed to apply the high standards once taken for granted by the public.
Qantas is running an intensive investigation which may identify the employee responsible for the disgrace, as well as those who then used it knowingly or unknowingly in a campaign to discredit the use of offshore companies, in this case, the Singapore International Airlines Engineering Company (SIAC) which had been the subject of an earlier adverse audit by the airline.
A Qantas spokesperson confirmed the investigation and has defended David Cox, the executive general manager engineering, who sent a confusing signal over the responsibility for the stapling incident by telling Seven’s Today Tonight he would have words with SIAC over the incident.
The spokesman said Cox’s comment were made three days before they went to air, well after the inquiry was launched and the false premises of the union campaign were exposed. Since then the union has been in retreat, claiming that it was not casting aspersions on the training or capability of foreign maintenance workers nor the quality of their work.
SIAC was furious over the report.

[Romulus]

Remainder of article from Crikey (for some reason it doesn't like it as one post)

Cox’s response to that fury is detailed in this note to staff on July 20.
However the situation is bad for Qantas as well as the union, because in failing to detect improper repairs in at least one of its jets, it recognises inadequate exercise of its responsibility for the professionalism and capabilities of its in-house engineering and the record keeping supposed to catalogue the service history of this and every jet in its fleet.
But as far as its argument against sending more maintenance work abroad is concerned the engineering union has kicked an ‘own goal’ and lost the match.
If neither Qantas or the unions can be trusted to get it right, isn’t the offshore solution more attractive than ever?

[blackhander]

more spin perhaps romulus?
seems strange that dodgy eel repairs keep turning up on aircraft en SIN heavy maint.
anyway hope the lockwire used in the previous post was 32 though IAW the AMM:)

[Redstone]

Interesting article Romulus, but I can assure you that the only spin doctors at work here are Qantas' and I would assume let off the leash by G.D. to cover the @rse of his Exec General Manager Engineering D.Cox.

The facts are that during a maintenance visit to SIAEC a Qantas 747-400 had wiring stapled. Qantas have admitted this in an internal audit of the check. David Cox himself admitted that it had occured on another a/c at the same MRO prior to this occurence. He said that SIAEC had been told to "cease this practice". Anecdotal evidence points to SIAEC also, and I can assure you that Mr Crikey this time is way off beam. The only time the entire aircrafts floor mounted emergency exit lighting strips are required to be "pulled up" and then re-layed back on the floor is during a D check, the check undertaken at SIAEC.

[Long Bay Mauler]

Why are we not asking for engineers of other operators that have their aircraft maintained in Singapore,if they are having the same dodgy defect happening.

If its happening to QF aircraft,then its happening to others as well.

Surely there must be an Aussie LAME working for other carriers,particularly Asian airlines,that if this is happening on their aircraft ex-SIAEC, then surely they must have a comment to add to the debate.Don't CX and other airlines have their overflow work done at SIAEC?

If its only happening to QF aircraft then maybe it is one of our own.And if it is,then he/she should be given the boot.:=

[Magoodotcom]

The facts are that during a maintenance visit to SIAEC a Qantas 747-400 had wiring stapled. Qantas have admitted this in an internal audit of the check.

Are they???

Home truths about those Qantas staples

Ben Sandilands writes:

Qantas knows that the illegal stapling of electrical cabling in a 747-400was done by one of its own employees and not in maintenance performed while the jet was being overhauled in Singapore last year.

What was a cause celebre for the Australian Licensed Aircraft Engineers Association in its campaign against offshore contracting and for alarmed Qantas pilots last week is now their worst nightmare.
It was shoddy work by an Australian worker in a Qantas hangar where management failed to apply the high standards once taken for granted by the public.

Qantas is running an intensive investigation which may identify the employee responsible for the disgrace, as well as those who then used it knowingly or unknowingly in a campaign to discredit the use of offshore companies, in this case, the Singapore International Airlines Engineering Company (SIAC) which had been the subject of an earlier adverse audit by the airline.

A Qantas spokesperson confirmed the investigation and has defended David Cox, the executive general manager engineering, who sent a confusing signal over the responsibility for the stapling incident by telling Seven’s Today Tonight he would have words with SIAC over the incident.

The spokesman said Cox’s comment were made three days before they went to air, well after the inquiry was launched and the false premises of the union campaign were exposed. Since then the union has been in retreat, claiming that it was not casting aspersions on the training or capability of foreign maintenance workers nor the quality of their work.
SIAC was furious over the report. Cox’s response to that fury is detailed in this Note to Staff on July 20.

However the situation is bad for Qantas as well as the union, because in failing to detect improper repairs in at least one of its jets, it recognises inadequate exercise of its responsibility for the professionalism and capabilities of its in-house engineering and the record keeping supposed to catalogue the service history of this and every jet in its fleet.

But as far as its argument against sending more maintenance work abroad is concerned the engineering union has kicked an ‘own goal’ and lost the match.

If neither Qantas or the unions can be trusted to get it right, isn’t the offshore solution more attractive than ever?

If its only happening to QF aircraft then maybe it is one of our own.And if it is,then he/she should be given the boot.
Hmmm :suspect::suspect::suspect:

[Redstone]

Quote:
The facts are that during a maintenance visit to SIAEC a Qantas 747-400 had wiring stapled. Qantas have admitted this in an internal audit of the check.
Are they???
Magoo don't you mean "have they"? And yes they have. David Cox admitted as much on the John Laws radio programme (which incidentally featured on media watch last week) thus the need for spin doctoring. Strike two David.
Ben Sandilands is a travel writer. His knowledge of aircraft maintenance and regulatory systems would probably extend to the Moet served in A zone whilst writing another puff piece on behalf of Qantas.
This article is pure bunk.

The spokesman said Cox’s comment were made three days before they went to air, well after the inquiry was launched and the false premises of the union campaign were exposed. Since then the union has been in retreat, claiming that it was not casting aspersions on the training or capability of foreign maintenance workers nor the quality of their work.
SIAC was furious over the report. Cox’s response to that fury is detailed in this Note to Staff on July 20.

So we are led to believe that at the time Cox was interviewed an enquiry was well under way as to the identity of the Qantas employee who perpetrated this abomination and the acusations of the union had been refuted and disproved? Right..... that explains his performance and shock when confronted with proof it happened, proof that it was reported through propper channels and proof that he failed to act.

[DrPepz]

Shouldn't QF contact airlines who had their aircraft maintained by SIAEC in the past to get clarification? Also, can't CASA ask to inspect SIA aircraft that arrive in Australia? There are 90 flights to choose from every week??

If the allegations are THAT serious, they threaten the lives of not only pax who take QF aircraft, but also pax who take SQ aircraft and the over 80 airlines who have/had aircraft maintained by SIAEC. I'm not sure how SIAEC could get away with dodgy maintenance for 80 airlines, but if they did, surely something would have been done about it by now? Or are these experiences unique only to QF aircraft?

[No SAR No Details]

I'm confused. Cox said they discovered the stapling at SIAEC in October last year and they were told to stop. SIAEC came back and said that it didn't happen and they were disapointed that Qantas inferred they were to blame, they also said they didnt do any work in "that" area and the paperwork proves it.
Ben Sandilands now writes that a "QANTAS spokesman" tells him that they have proof that the stapling was done in a hangar in Australia.
Why then have Qantas not issued a maintenance memo or recall inspections to inspect the eel power feeders on ALL aircraft that were worked on in an AUSTRALIAN hangar? I certainly haven't seen one.
In more than 20 years in an Australian Heavy Maintenance hangar I have never seen or heard of stapling used to repair eel feeders or lockwire used as a replacement male pin on a feeder plug.
QANTAS have only asked us to look at the aircraft that have come from SIAEC for EEL feeder problems.
Another scenario I have heard is that SIAEC said they found the staples and assumed that that was an approved Qantas repair and thus refitted the eel feeders with staples after the floorboards were refitted.
If they were doing their job properly they would have investigated this as should have been obvious to a skilled avionics ame/lame that this was not normal.
But if you put the whole thing in perspective, 50 hrs of inspections carried out in one shift, more than 20 flight control cables defective but not snagged, no seat track defects found on the entire aircraft despite there being cracked and corroded seat tracks found by a suspicious Qantas LAME, Steel knifes used to remove sealant on the aircraft exterior causing damage to the aluminium attach flanges, these clowns are not capable of finding a defect if it jumped up and bit them on the arse.
A quality outfit for sure. Sh!thouse quality.

[squawk6969]

Looks like a Duck...

Sounds like a Duck...

Probably a DUCK!!

SQ:uhoh:

[No SAR No Details]

Put it in water and see if it floats.

[Jabawocky]

No SAR

I think we both know it floats and Quacks!

How is it some regulatory folk are not good Duck Hunters?:ugh:

But they will bust and fine some poor GA fellow for having his AD done a couple of days late or some similar stupid thing....:ugh::ugh: (no not me, so its not a gripe)

J

[No SAR No Details]

Evidently its not duck hunting season any more. It must be rabbit season, thats why they are going after the bunnies in GA.

[Mobi LAME]

Everything Ben Sandilands said was correct and Mick Keelty's team of investigators did a very thorough job!

[chockchucker]

The QF spin-doctoring continues, and it appears CASA is happy to keep their head in the sand, for now.


Qantas rues more crude repairsBy Steve Creedy

July 31, 2007 06:00am


QANTAS has been forced to again defend its maintenance practices after two more sections of emergency lighting wiring in one of its jumbo jets were found to be crudely repaired using staples.

The airline's engineering union contacted the Civil Aviation Safety Authority yesterday and reported that the additional staples and another wiring irregularity had been found over the weekend.

The airline discovered more than two weeks ago that wiring in two of five sections of emergency lighting on the same plane had been repaired by stapling them together. The emergency lighting is an essential safety feature meant to guide passengers out of the aircraft in the event of a crash at night or if the cabin fills with smoke.

The staples have now been found in four of the five sections but it is unclear who did the stapling.

The Australian Licensed Aircraft Engineers Association believes the staples were used to repair the plane while it underwent heavy maintenance in Singapore, but the Singapore Airlines Engineering Company, which carried out the maintenance, angrily denies this. ALAEA is equally as forceful in its denials that the repair work was done in Australia.

Qantas initially indicated that it had addressed the issue with the Singaporeans but last night said the investigation was still in progress. Qantas head of engineering David Cox said the airline had shortened the frequency of functional tests on the emergency lighting system from the manufacturer's recommended six weeks to two days.

He said the airline was continuing to inspect its aircraft so it could be sure it got everything.

"We're dealing with this as a quality issue, not a safety issue," he said. "So we're working through a rigorous and aggressive program of inspections and follow-up checks so we can be sure."

CASA was also unable to shed any light on who was responsible for the staples but said yesterday it was "comfortable" with the airline's handling of the issue.

CASA spokesman Peter Gibson said the authority had allowed Qantas to continue flying the aircraft with some of the wiring still stapled after the airline agreed to regular checks to ensure the emergency lighting was still working.

Mr Gibson said the stapled wiring was in a 12-volt system and it was not considered a safety of flight issue.

"Qantas has its quality assurance systems in place to check that everything's running properly and when mistakes are made, to identify those and rectify them," he said. "Basically we're satisfied that Qantas is doing that successfully. In other words, there's no reason for us to step in."

[chockchucker]

Looks like these problems may soon no longer be confined to planes but, to trains also......





Ex-Qantas manager to review Sydney rail services

Posted July 30, 2007 14:00:00

A former Qantas manager has been appointed to review maintenance procedures within RailCorp.

The management of RailCorp and unions are continuing to work through a series of issues in a bid to resolve a dispute over rail maintenance.

The New South Wales Transport Minister, John Watkins, says the appointment of Keith Clark will bring experience in maintenance procedures from the world's safest airline.

"[He] recently retired [as] general manager of heavy maintenance at Qantas has been appointed by the government to look at a number of matters over the next three months," he said.

"[They include] the maintenance procedures, the management, the performance outcomes [and] work force capability. [They have been asked to] come forward with a blueprint to really improve the output from those public sector maintenance yards."



Good luck to all in Sydney Rail!

[No Idea Either]

"We're dealing with this as a quality issue, not a safety issue" quote DC (I think), and,


"CASA spokesman Peter Gibson said the authority had allowed Qantas to continue flying the aircraft with some of the wiring still stapled after the airline agreed to regular checks to ensure the emergency lighting was still working.
Mr Gibson said the stapled wiring was in a 12-volt system and it was not considered a safety of flight issue."


400 odd people in a smoke filled cabin, stapled EEL, not a safety issue or a safety of flight (egress) issue. Are theses people for real.:=:=:=:=

[neville_nobody]

Why is there such a vast inconsistency between the regulation of Low Capacity RPT and Qantas? If this was a GA RPT operation they would come down on them like a tonne of bricks.

If I was a low capacity RPT operator I would be calling my local FOI and asking for an explanation, after some of the stuff I have seen CASA take action over; to do nothing about what is basically non approved modifications to aircraft is unbelievable.

Are CASA here to play politics or to regulate?

[NAS1801]

Shouldn't QF contact airlines who had their aircraft maintained by SIAEC in the past to get clarification? Also, can't CASA ask to inspect SIA aircraft that arrive in Australia? There are 90 flights to choose from every week?? ....Different emergency escape path lighting system to QF. Most airlines use a low voltage system with normal wires which would be near impossible to staple. The QF system is not used by many operators. It is 115v (Despite what Mr Gibson says, see below). The "wires" on Qantas aircraft consist of a 10mm wide flexible plastic strip with 2 copper conductors embedded inside. Mr Gibson said the stapled wiring was in a 12-volt system and it was not considered a safety of flight issue. ... even CASA is buggering up the story! As I said, a 115v system, not 12v.

[NAS1801]

The New South Wales Transport Minister, John Watkins, says the appointment of Keith Clark will bring experience in maintenance procedures from the world's safest airline. Hmmmm looks like railcorp are about to shut down a top quality and highly experienced facility and move it to one out the back of nowhere, staffed by imported labour. (Thanks Keith)

[Section28- BE]

This one caught my eye back in February of this year, and have pondered since if the work was done on or offshore???, I don’t think it got any coverage at the time.

Apart from the initial occurrence:

“A duplicate inspection of the elevator control cable run was subsequently carried out by two licensed aircraft maintenance engineers (LAMEs). Both engineers had concerns about the ‘heavy’ feel of the elevators. A noise was heard near the vicinity of the incorrectly routed cable, however, the LAMEs believed the noise was the result of a cable seal rub. They did not initiate a thorough inspection to positively determine the source……”

The Structural aspect and Ultimate Time in Service with the defect- intrigued me, would be interested in any thoughts or knowledge about the incident, of those assembled here??

ATSB Aviation Safety Investigation Report – Final
Release Date: 05 February 2007

Flight control system event; Boeing Company 737-X00, VH-#@^

“...a Boeing Company 737-X00 aircraft, registered VH-#%^, completed a scheduled flight from Melbourne, Victoria to Sydney, NSW. The pilot then reported that the aircraft had ‘heavy’ flight controls. An inspection by maintenance engineers revealed that the left lower rear elevator cable was incorrectly routed around a stiffener and that the stiffener and cable section had been damaged as a result of contact between them.”…..

“In the last week of July 2005, a contract maintenance organisation had replaced eight elevator control cable sections during a scheduled heavy aircraft maintenance check.”

“The aircraft was released to the aircraft operator on 1 August 2005 and remained in service until the pilot in command reported the ‘heavy’ flight controls on 9 August 2005.”…..

Link to Full Report below (trusting that it is functional??):

ATSB Report: 05Feb07- Cable B73-X (http://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/investigation_reports/2005/AAIR/aair200503971.aspx)

Go easy now- new at this……

[company_spy]

This one caught my eye back in February of this year, and have pondered since if the work was done on or offshore???, I don’t think it got any coverage at the time

VB get their a/c heavy maint done in Aukland I think. Or perhaps in Brisbane by contractors????

[Torqueman]

FYI

I'm pretty sure that was a Virgin Aircraft that not long before had gone to NZ for Heavy Maintenance.

[No SAR No Details]

Maybe it's time that Virgin were brought out into the open for rebirthing parts and their outsourcing practices.

[Torqueman]

Here is the latest installment in the Qantas overseas maintenance saga

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZNSH8JQ4yQ

DC really doesn't interview well does he? The arrogance he displays is quite inappropriate for a person his level. He is only the head of Maintenance I suppose.