SEP rating validating, conflicting information

[mcdonnst]

Hi all,
I have looked through the posts here and searched online but I am having trouble finding the answer.

My SEP rating expires on Friday (only found out last night).
I have not done any flying in the last 2 years (waiting 7 months to join a club but still havent gone up).

Now I have a CAA licence which I got from flying in San Diego and Im from Ireland.

The Irish Avaition Authority says I need to do a full flight test (€409), the same as the one I did for my ppl. But looking through these posts in the UK all you need to do to keep your rating valid is do a proficentcy skill test.

I know I need to do some traing to get back into the swing of things but I dont want to do a whole flight test again.

Can I just go over to england and do a skills test?
This would be cheaper would'nt it?

Any help?

Thanks

[tmmorris]

As I understand it, if you have a JAA license issued by the IAA, then the SEP revalidation rules are whatever the IAA say they are, because only they can revalidate the SEP rating.

Certainly the UK insists on the rating being revalidated by experience signed off within the three months preceding expiry, even though that's based on a misinterpretation of the JARs.

So if you are right about the IAA requirements then I'm afraid you're stuck with it. But check, because according to the JARs you should only need a Licensing Proficiency Check which is basically a PPL skills test without the navigation components.

Tim


edited to add: PS doesn't matter if you don't do it by Friday, because the requirement will be the same anyway.

[mcdonnst]

Thanks Tim,
I have a CAA issued JAA licence so dose this make a difference?

S

[tmmorris]

Yes, if it's UK issued then the UK revalidation rules apply. See LASORS (on the CAA website) for details, but basically if you don't qualify to revalidate by experience (you don't) you can revalidate by LPC before the deadline, or renew by skills test after it. I was wrong about them being the same - you need to do a test to appendices 1 and 3 of JAR 1.240 but I don't have that reference to hand, so I'm not sure what parts of the skills test are omitted (appendix 2, evidently!) As I recall, it's the nav parts.

See http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/LASORS_07.pdf page 242.

Tim

[jezbowman]

Appendix 1 specifies the conditions of the check-ride, acceptable test criteria, tollorances, etc.
Appendix 2 specfies the content of the test on a multi-pilot aircraft.
Appendix 3 specfies the content of the test on a single-pilot aircraft.
Navigation (section 3A of appendix 3) is not a mandatory test, hence examiner discresion.
http://www.jaa.nl/publications/jars/607069.pdf
Appendix 3 is on page 161.

Took me a while to find this as I'm renewing an expired (by two weeks) SEP rating on Monday!

[mcdonnst]

So the Nav is included in section 3.

How much would a skills test cost in the UK?

I have never flown in England, could I do that that skills test in Ireland it s says

Complete 1 and 3 of JAR 1.240 with an authorised JAR examiner.

I dont know where to find someone to do that here.

Thanks for your help

[jezbowman]

I've been told to expect between a 1:00 - 1:20 flight at standard aircraft hire rates and a £50 fee for the examiner. It really depends on what the examiner wishes to test. Yes he/she can include navigation but as you'll notice from the table in Appendix 3, this is not mandatory.

You might be better off asking the CAA if any JAA examiner can conduct the test according to Appendix 1 & 3, sign your SEP(L) rating and complete the paperwork that goes off to the CAA. Or if it must be CAA examiner.

Perhaps what the IAA tell you is correct, that you do a skills test to re-new (not re-validate) your expired (by < 5yrs) rating. This is the same as the UK. Sure the examiner can make you fly an entire test if he/she wants to but it's at his/her discression. I would expect him/her to adjust the extent of the testing to reflect your recent flying experience, but always incude the mandatory items (of course).

[mcdonnst]

Ill give the CAA a ring in a little while.

The information I got for the IAA is that I have to do a full test.
Which is €409 plus aircraft rental.

It dose say any Jaa exaimer can conduct the test, I just dont think they do it here. All tests are booked through the IAA and all they do is a full test.

[jezbowman]

When you said €409 I assumed that was including the aircraft hire! :eek:

[bean_ian]

Also you may be able to go up to the north and do the flight up there. I can recommend Enniskillen flying school. I did my exams there prior to going over to the states. Very friendly and accommodating.

Cheers,
Ian

[mcdonnst]

Ok, just spoke with the CAA, they recomended to do it up north.
I just do the skill test as already stated.

Yep €409 for skills test then €300 for an 1 1/2 rental.

Thanks for the recomendation, ill look into them.
Is it much different flying in UK airspace? Different radio proceedures or anything.

How many hours do you think it will take to get up and going again. I did it in the 45 minium with a few hours to spare. Pretty confident ill pick it up quickly. I'm thinking 5- 6 hours

[bean_ian]

I got my PPL in Feb and joined a club in EIDW. I just got back flying there about 2 weeks ago and have just over 3 hours in. Im expecting it to take between 5-8hrs as i have to get used to EIDW's procedures and also I have flown solely cessna's up till now and the club fly PA28's.
If you brush up on your maneuvers(slow flight,stalls etc) and get familiar with Irish R/T it will help speed things along!

Cheers
Ian

[IRISHPILOT]

hello there!
have you renewed / revalidated yet?
friend of mine from Limerick (and myself) did it here:

www.bemoair.eu

that's near Prague and the examiner fee is the same as an instructor (10 Euro) plus a bottle of Ballentines. Aircraft rental is 110 Euro per hour, they tried to do it really quick with minimum hours, so we ended up paying 250 Euro each incl. all training. We were not at all current and both ratings were expired.

IAA accepted it in my case and CAA in his.
cheers, IP

[Whopity]

Lot of confusion! According to JAR-FCL

Revalidate = Proficiency Check

Renew = Skill Test

The Skill Test for a renewal has the same content as a Proficiency check but it is not the same content as an initial Licence Issue Skill Test.

So just because you need a Skill Test to renew a rating don't assume its the initial test again.