N Registration Share - should I or shoudn't I?

[JTobias]

Folks,

I am considering buyng a share in an N registration syndicate aircraft. Firstly, I'm not sure of the general implications of an aircraft that is on the American register and secondly I know that there is talk of some changes regarding American registered aircraft.

Can anyone elaborate and offer their thoughts?

Thanks, Joel

[scooter boy]

Joel, do you have an FAA licence or CAA?

The changes which were mooted by the DfT last year are unlikely to ever happen - far too many vested interests involved in keeping the N-reg guys based in Europe.

SB

[stickandrudderman]

I've been there, done that. Won't do it again, but not because of the N reg, just the whole group thing.
It's no big deal though, as long as you speak to an aviation lawyer.
I used a guy called Austin Hall, who I can thoroughly recommend.

[On the Spot]

Check what you are buying a share of as N-Reg aircraft need to be owned by US citizens, trust, corporations etc. and that brings with it a potential minefield in liabilities etc.

Otherwise enjoy the flying, cheap medicals, attainable and useable IR and reasonable approach to maintenance from the land that broght aviation to the world.

[BackPacker]

This is written by a fellow PPRuNer... Might be very useful for understanding the legal issues.

http://www.peter2000.co.uk/aviation/faa-nreg/nreg.html

[JTobias]

Thanks all, I have a CAA license and it's just an aircraft based at my local airfield with a share up for sale. It just happens to be on the N registration and i wanted to know if I was letting myself in for any trouble.

Joel

[IO540]

It's no "trouble", but it's not very useful to you.

With a UK license you can fly it only in the UK. With say a German license you could fly it only in Germany. This is FAR 61.3 a 1.

If you got yourself an FAA PPL (either standalone or piggyback) then you could fly it VFR worldwide. (But you can fly a G-reg worldwide on your UK PPL already...)

If you got yourself an FAA IR then you could fly it IFR worldwide.

If the plane is something really good then it could well be worth doing.

Incidentally I did once run a sort of group around an N-reg, but found that few people bothered to obtain and maintain their FAA ratings. It needs a fair bit of motivation. A group around an N-reg might work if the plane is really nice, say a nice SR22 or TB20, and everybody already has all the bits of paper.

[Fuji Abound]

With a UK license you can fly it only in the UK. With say a German license you could fly it only in Germany. This is FAR 61.3 a 1.

I must look at the FAR again.

I wonder what it says about a JAR license or the forthcoming EASA license.

At what point is the license issued by the United States of Europe, a concept the nice folk at Independence Avenue should understand well?

Maybe we will have to wait unitl the G becomes an EU.

[IO540]

$61.3 (a) (1) says: "when operated within a foreign country, a current pilot license issued by the country in which the aircraft is operated may be used".

[my bold]

I know some people have taken the view that a JAA PPL is a European PPL and should thus cover you for an N-reg all over JAA-land, I don't think "JAA" is a "country". JAA works by automatic mutual validation. A UK issued JAA PPL is still issued by a country called UK.

If the FAA clarified this otherwise, that would be fine. But until then, 61.3 a 1, if read exactly as written, says "issued", not "issued or validated", and it uses the word "country".

[Fuji Abound]

Hmmm, but the UK consists of four countries doesnt it - England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland (would the Cornish like it to be five :)).

[IO540]

:)

It's down to the FAA. I wonder if anybody has had any clarification from them. The FARs were written without any lip service to the world outside the USA.

[Fuji Abound]

:)

Just as a bit of a fun debate I also wonder what the FAA think they mean by "operates".

It is in the nature of aircraft that they have an operations base - a place the aircraft is based, and operates from. Not surprisingly, in the nature of aircraft, they go from that place to some where else.

Do the FAA mean that if the aircraft is based in England and the pilot has a CAA license then that's fine since the place of operation corresponds with the pilot's place of license. If so, nothing changes if the pilot and aircraft fly to and from another country because the the base of operation of the aircraft has not chnaged.

However if the aircraft was based in was therefore operated from France, but the pilot had a CAA license, then under the FAR it would not be legal for him to pilot the aircraft.