Great Captain

[memyself]

Flew down from Glasgow to London on the BA huttle on Friday (as a Pax).
Flight delayed 1.5 hours with everyone on-board due to missed allocation.

However, was really suprised and happy to see the captain standing at the front of the cabin next to the wardrobe and outside the cockpit, addressing the whole passenger cabin over the PA.

This is the first time I've ever seen this and I take my hat off to this guy, it really gave a face to the voice and everyone listened. A great example of leading from the front and a great way to get engagement with the people who pay to keep the airline flying.

If only more captains did this. Operations allowing I'm gonna try this myself.

[one four sick]

Disagree!

I always thought captains doing PAs from the cabin are WEIRD!
I have had longer delays than that, but never felt the urge to display my sorry face to the crowds (even though I've been branded good looking enough times!!!).:D
No, we belong in the cockpit and PAs from there are more than sufficient.
Any captain with the need to stand up and "perform" needs their heads examined.


one four sick

[top jock]

I have seen a Jetblue Captain do this and everybody around thought it was a nice touch. My wife is not the best of flyers and it really put her at ease to see the Captain standing there. When we landed the Captain was at the door saying goodbye and the FO was standing on the jetbridge saying goodbye. I thought it was great to see.

[unwiseowl]

When we landed the Captain was at the door saying goodbye and the FO was standing on the jetbridge saying goodbye. I thought it was great to see.

I think I'm going to vomit.

[Fool's Hole]

I have never heard so mush c*&p in my life.
What's this the "Captain's Show"?
Some kind of b&*£^y ocean cruise?
Get a life, back to the cockpit, quick!:mad: :mad: :mad:

[FWOF]

AS a nervous passenger I always appreciate the 'human' touch of the Captains pre-flight talk and also the update during the flight. So to see the Captain in the flesh, so to speak, would please me :ok:

[Wycombe]

But it can work, providing you have a penchant for witty public speaking.

Believe this clip is fairly recent....http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=iqKIYLXXkQM

[Mentaleena]

FWOF


Not sure what your name stands for, but please don't come closer to me with your pleased state! :=

[Basil]

IMHO well, OK, IMO ;)
There are times when a personal appearance by the old man, telling the truth will get the pax onside and take some of the strain off the CC.
OTTOMH only done it twice, once at the gate in Mombassa when a succession of crew illness & injuries (not social :}) led to a delay and once in the aircraft on the ground - can't rmember why; another delay I guess.

Usually only done the "Goodbye" when flt deck shutdown wrapped up, inadvertently leap out & still disembarking - oops! OK, smile to the nice people who pay my salary.

[Farty Flaps]

Well the ones i know that do it are also the same ones who seem to get the most dramas everytime they go to work and the most (alledged)plattitudes from the company all the time for what is essentially their job discription.
Narcissicts at best. total walters at worst.
EG Scene Down route after a diversion Really happend. Young CC looking adoringly at new captain " oh that captain that has justsaved out lives is so good he called on his own phone and told crewing what for and got us a hotel, he always sticks up for us" translated for the rest of us " that captain that has diverted for a monor fault due to inexperience is on his company phone and is just getting the hotel details from crewing" Some people just have the ability to turn everyday admin into an heroic act that has saved his crew from total disater.:ugh:
The aviation version of a lounge lizard. As for making the cc brews on the turnaround...dont make me vomit, ingratiating insecure and cheesy. I can get laid without all that bollox and as for crm ....rant rant rant rant....:ok:
The rest of us just go to work and get the job done. The only time i stand at the flight deck door is when i'm busting for a wee and the cc's arse is wider than the door and I cant get past:E

[smudgethecat]

For gods sake , would you expect the driver of the train you have just travelled on, or the bus driver who has safely negotiated his way across central London to stand there wishing you farewell ?,..no of course not, so why should the flightdeck do it? get a life.

[Skylion]

Actually in the days of steam trains, the Driver would often lean out of his cab on arrival at a terminus and exchange greetings with the passengers. Like it or not, the passengers do appreciate seeing the operating crew and their presence outside the flight deck is almost always seen as a plus. Pilots are part of the public face of the company and the job is not just about flying the aeroplane.

[Firestorm]

To all the detracters: talking to the passengers called customer service, and making a brew for the crew is being a nice bloke, as is helping the cabin crew to tidy the cabin during a turn around, so get down off your high horses: you might enjoy it!

No I wouldn't expect a train driver to do it: that's one of the things that sets US apart from THEM.

[Max Angle]

Jesus, I have never done it and if I am going to end up on YouTube I never will. Nightmare.

[Astrocaryum vulgare]

I think Basil got it just right.

In case of an issue a tech issue delaying departure that might be causing concern to nervous pax, a quick face to face by the Capt is an excellent idea. In fact, depending on circumstances, other types of delay might merit an appearance from the Capt, after all anyone familiar with CRM, something I doubt a number of posters on this thread are, will be aware of the importance of the visual element of communication.

As for standing on parade as the pax disembark, this isn't something I do as I'm usually still busy running the shutdown checklist or filling in the ever increasing amount of paperwork. If I do happen to be out of my seat, customer service and basic politeness dictates a quick goodbye is in order.

[smudgethecat]

Can you explain why seeing the guy who flew the a/c is a plus ? all im interested in (and i suspect most other normal people )is getting off the bloody thing ASAP, whether of not i catch a fleeting glimpse of the flight crew on my off is of no consequence whatsoever.

[Farty Flaps]

Firestorm,
Bt of thread creep re cc and a little tongue in cheek but...
Thats the problem its not being a nice bloke , it manifests itself as you ingratiating yourself in the possibly misguided belief that its team building and good for crm and that theyll like you more and well all be mates.
Its a nice gesture but totally unnecessary and its appreciated about as long as you remain their mate and not have to pull them up on anything(see below), nothing about high horses.
All it does is confuse people into identyfying "good crm" with the fiendly bloke in the cabin, not an effective approachable leader. Making brews , doing seat pockets and being a cheesy bugger doesnt make a good skipper. Try (if you have too)asserting your authority after doing seat pockets and your good blokeyness will evaporate faster than you can say " why does she think Im a posh git Im really nice to them". Or they say " hes such a tw@t typical flight deck why does he get two meals etc etc"
Been there done that ate hosty and read the pie. You see Im married to a colleague so its not my cynicism ( well not all) its genuine feedback from genuine cc.
Now as for the Pilot on the PA thing well as I said in my first paragraph first post , its an alarming coincidence that the ones that need to do this are the same ones who tend to have so much drama at work and always finish the day a hero.
You can lead your team effectively without compromising your position and you can address the pax without the theatrics.
Now if you want to get laid youd stand more chance not turning up in chinos and a sweater for the crew meal on layover and get em pissed enough to like you:E

[Ianj]

As a number one in my previous airline, I often flew with a captain who would address the passengers using the PA system standing in the forward cabin. Ok the odd joke was made about the crew - but this gave the passengers a sense of reassurance and took some strain off the crew. The passengers loved it as well did the crew.

Providing safety procedures are followed and time permitting, I think this should be a standard procedure - a nice touch.

[FWOF]

No, I wouldn't expect a train driver or a bus driver to do it, but then how many trains and buses travel at the speeds and the altitude of a plane.

I did SAY I was talking as a nervous passenger, and mostly I find this forum a good source of information. However, I am somewhat alarmed at the amount of petty bickering etc. from a group of professionals that I didn't expect it come from!

And my username, FWOF, I stole from the Flying Without Fear information I have recently taken delivery of, and which has enabled to get on a plane every Monday and Friday ... so be nice to a nervous lady please! :(

[Empty Cruise]

Do you think that I do seatpockets to be a nice bloke???

Jeeeezz, you guys sure must have more than a 25 min. turnaround - if I and the FO have a spare minute, we will help with the seat pockets, to expedite the turnaround! This has nothing to do with CRM, it's all about dispatching my flight on time :mad:

As for making coffee - dream on! The only time I do it is if we're the first ones out of the crew room, but never during t/r.

And yes, I also give PAs from the front whenever a serious delay is encountered or the pax might have felt that the safety of the flight might have been compromised, e.g. return to stand for minor tech problem. They have very low opinions of us in the first place :} without having lack of social skills and LMF added to the list by hiding in the cockpit.

What the cc, other captains and FOs think about this - I couldn't give a f#@$ing toss - I do it for the pax. If the rest of the crew have a problem with it, they can approach me. If not - get on with it!

And no - no drama, and I don't divert for any minor problems due to my inexperience. When you get your own command, you can choose for yourself - until then, simply decide if the captain displays behavioural patterns that are worth emulating or best left alone.

[Astrocaryum vulgare]

FWOF, don't be under misapprehensions, despite the name of this bulletin board, many of the posters aren't professional pilots.

[pulse1]

On a BA flight which was delayed in Munich because of strong winds at LHR, the captain made himself available at the gate to answer any questions from the passengers.

I thought that this was a nice touch and seemed to help nervous passengers as we eventually approached LHR to land on 23. Somehow, we felt involved.

[Dogma]

Great to hear that this Captain had the Brass Balls to get out in front of the Pax:D

Personally, I would not do a PA in front of the Pax unless the delay is or has been over one hour. That said, if you are less than comfortable with public speaking, try to do a stand-up PA when the issue is not a serious one. This provides the skills/experience for delivering bad news to a hostile crowd in the terminal or onboard.

Tea on turn around...occasionally, saying good bye to the Pax almost never.

One of the best hands on Skippers address to his pax was in Singapore on British Airways - tech delay news went down very well as a result.

[Ambulance 'Charlie Alpha']

Hello All

Never had go out to chat to the pax in my current job but did it many, many times in my last job for a regional turbo-operator. When you spend your whole 6 sector day, all week, running late, tech, no bags, poor weather, catering etc, etc, going out and speaking to the people that keep you in a job actually takes a hell of a strain off the single cabin crew onboard..... and yes, as a team/crm/just getting on together thing, they really did appreciate it. If things were running really late for whatever reason, actually going into the gate and explaining the problem to them face-to-face used to work wonders. Also helps prevent your cabin crew taking nothing but crap for 8-10 hours. Firestorm will back me up on that, I'm sure! Making a cuppa for your crew and helping with the tidy on quick turnarounds is almost essential in that job. If nothing else it guaranteed that your cabin crew got a brief sit down and a drink before working balls-out, without rest for the next few sectors. I still take hot drink orders in my current job if time permits during the hour turn-around. Just good manners really because I do bugger all else once the new route's been executed! Despite comments on here, it actually is appreciated by the people you work with on a daily basis.

Just my two-penneth.

Cheers

ACA

[Farty Flaps]

Utter tosh. There is a varying scale of pointlessness on doing the above .

Small face to face company...useful
Loco... essential as youve sold your soul
Charter mostly pointless as they dont really like you as a social group and no individuality will change that.
Ba type company...out and out dislike and disdain....utterly pointless

Now as for the Captain thinng. Ive done it once in my career on a big jet, up in the terminal on the mike expalining the problem. Did it assauge the passengers fury and complaints ...not one bit.

All it really does is massage the egos or insecurities of people that need to be liked or assume they have the skills of Henry Kissenger:ugh:

[Fil]

Often helps gets people onside when they see the Capt explaining the situation, it feels it has come from the top. Another plus is when Capt then walks the cabin answering any questions from passengers. Obviously only when delay is large.

[Dogma]

arty Flaps

"Small face to face company...useful
Loco... essential as you’ve sold your soul
Charter mostly pointless as they don’t really like you as a social group and no individuality will change that.
Ba type company...out and out dislike and disdain....utterly pointless"

You appear to have an extremely jaded view of airline life! Are you referring to making a cup of tea, etc?

With regards to standing in front of the Pax, etc, I have had good feed back from Pax and crew alike. They are often left for hours getting little or no information from the handling agents. If our Capt's did not take this initiative, we would see blood shed in places like Sharm, Al Ain, Spain, etc.

All power to the Captains that are all around pilots, ambassadors, scholars, judge, jury and executioners!

[Curious Pax]

Only seen it once (I'm SLF) when in the middle of a 90 minute slot delay on stand on a MAN-AMS a number of years ago. It was BA, and the corresponding KLM flight had just trundled past us going out on time. There were a number of pax chuntering loudly about this, which was obviously fed back to the captain. He appeared in the cabin, apologised for the delay, and walked round answering questions, which totally defused things. Probably also helped him by allowing a leg-stretch rather than spending the time strapped in his seat.

As others have said - used correctly, and when operational circumstances permit, it can be a very powerful tool in a captain's armour.

[lexxity]

From a ground point of view, during massive delays if somone with stripes can come and do a call at the gate or onboard it does us all well. Takes the pressure off the gate staff and cabin crew. So thanks to those of you who can talkto the pax.:ok:

[Firestorm]

Farty Flaps. I appreciate your point of view, and you are quite right. That said, if your crew know that you are a leader (be it Captain or Co-pilot) who will do a bit extra to help the rest of the team out a bit, either by picking up some gash, or making a brew, in my experience they will make a little bit extra effort to do a good job, and avoid getting into a situation that will need them to be dressed down. I don't have a problem with pulling someone up just because I made a brew for them, or with someone who made a brew for me. As much as anything else helping in the cabin is the only opportunity at a low cost airline to get to know anything about the crew members, and sometimes the only opportunity to see their faces during an 11 hour duty. Don't get me wrong: I have lots of other things that I am required to do before I start brewing up, and I make sure that they are all attended to, and that the Captain has had any help he needs from me first; any spare capacity that I have I will help the rest of the crew.

[Mike Read]

It used to be considered good PR for the captain to go through the cabin and talk to the pax. Story goes of the rather pompous chap who anounced his intention to his first officer, said "you have control", put on his cap and left the flight deck. After a few minutes F/O get on cabin address. "Ladies and gentlemen, most of you will have seen the TV programme "Jim'll Fixit". We have on board a lucky winner so would you all give a big hand to the gentleman dressed as our captain who is walking through the cabin now."

[Firestorm]

As for talking directly to the passengers. If the day is gone to a ball of chalk it really helps the situation if they can see a bit of sincerity on your face. Wasn't there a debate (nationally, and probably on Proone) started by a certain Mr Straw about not covering one's face during a conversation! I accept that some people may not like public speaking and all these things, and I am the last one to espouse anything that is liberal and luvvy, but if as the Captain of an airliner you can't deliver a few lines to the passengers without hiding behind an armoured door I think you are a bit wet, and if you can't be bothered to roll your sleeves up to help the rest of the team to achieve your 25 minute turn around, then, like wise you will have trouble winning my total respect.

I'm a bit confused by your how to pull a hostie advice, but as that is not something I'm trying to achieve, it's not important. We don't nightstop anyway, and I was well able to pull an intelligent woman without resorting to wearing chinos.

ACA: those were the days!

[Bomber Harris]

"When we landed the Captain was at the door saying goodbye and the FO was standing on the jetbridge saying goodbye."

I don't think it actually says it anywhere in my ops manual, but I was always under the impression that one of us has to be in the seat with a radio 'available' to call fire crews or ambulances if necessary. Also, be there in case the APU fire bell goes off...somebody has to pull the handle if you don't have auto discharge option fitted!!

Surely it's inherently a bad idea for BOTH crew to leave the flight deck with pax onboard. Sorry, a little off thread, but responding to the third post in this thread.

[Dogma]

The other day I was followed into LGW by an Excel aircraft, the Pilot on the RT sounded like he was taking the P1SS. This annunciation would have been more at home on the deck of a repainted GPO van. Anyone from XL know?

Or perhaps we are at the end of the Officers and Gentlemen time line of the profession or is this just the spread of TV inspired regional accents? Innit!

!Thread creep warning!

[Rainboe]

Farty, my experience backs your opinions! We once offloaded all the pax from a 747 when the fan blades were discovered bent at the ends and home base were being consulted. I went into the lounge to speak personally and 'take the flak'! Flak there was- everybody just had to phone home NOW, we had the lawyer who became the self appointed 'spokesman' threatening divine retribution in court, the many bizarre accusations of 'you're lying to us!' and 'there is more you're not telling us', the tearful woman who just had to get home within an hour of original schedule because her mother had to leave on her own holiday immediately and there was nobody to look after the kids.......every case a sob story, all had to call home immediately. I don't feel it helped having someone physically to 'punish' and vent spleen on. Did I take it? No. I insisted 'I was not paid enough to lie to anybody thank you very much!'. To 'I'll take you to Court'- 'good, see you there then!' and 'how dare you accuse me of lying! Why on earth would I lie to anybody?'

Got an extra night in Antigua though.

[JW411]

I think this is an age issue. I am now an old fart but, when I started my professional aviation career, going through the cabin with your hat on your head and talking to the passengers was the thing to do.

I was never totally convinced that this was really necessary but, on the other hand, I got to meet a lot of very interesting people.

Then, along came aeroplanes that flew at F350 and above so leaving the flightdeck for long periods of time became a bit problematic because of the loss of cabin pressure problem.

The other loss of contact with the folks that help to pay our salaries has been the ban on flightdeck visits. I would always allow flightdeck visits when it was appropriate and ALWAYS with the agreement of the rest of the crew. It could be a pain in the bum sometimes but watching the wide-eyed kids soaking it all up and realising that that was exactly how you yourself got started many years ago was worth the effort.

We now have young pilots who don't know what a flightdeck visitor is. They struggle through pointless security checks and seek final refuge behind their reinforced flightdeck doors. All command is conducted from that environment and contact with the punters is to be avoided at all times.

Now then, if you really are a captain then I think you should have the balls to get out there when something is going seriously wrong on the ground and tell it like it is.

In 50 years of flying, I only had to do that on half a dozen occasions but I was happy to do so for at least you can hopefully allay the fears of the nervous and give good information to the rest. It also takes a lot of pressure off the cabin crew.

As for standing there at the front whilst the passengers are disembarking???? I have seen this done on BA quite a few times and I personally find it just a bit nauseating. What are you trying to say? It almost looks like you are looking for a tip.

It seems to me that we a have a new breed of captain. "I shall rule behind my locked door but don't expect me to appear in front of you to give any explanations. We employ other people to do that".

It's a bit like the politicians in today's blameless society who can never understand why they should consider resigning when they make an imperial boll*cks of something.

[Dogma]

Good post JW411!

We need the advise on these and other issues from Skippers that have had a careers worth of experience.:ok:

[omnidirectional737]

Oncewent tech on turnaround in Egypt and Captain went over to terminal and spoke to the punters and told them the reasons and we would all be night stopping and when we would be going etc. I thought this was a real nice touch and next day passengers said as much to the crew.

Dogma does it matter about the accent if you say the right things? isn't that what std r/t is for?

[Farty Flaps]

Firestorm...Dear oh dear. I said DONT wear chinos.
Anyway. Its only the straight captains that feel the need to help the hosties and act like some Alpha male "I'll take care of things".MMM I wonder why. :ooh:
Lots of commendable reasons have been put forward but they all mask the real reasons for such behaviour. Ingratiation is a form of compensation for a lack of confidence in your leadership skills. We in the gay community wouldnt dream of it and quite frankly dont need to do it. :ok: I dont need or crave approval to exercise real leadership and the habits discussed here are neither leadership or good CRM.:E.
As for standards well if you consider having to help out to achieve your turnaround in a loco, isnt that a manifestation of selling the industry down the river by prostituting yourself in order to get that magical 3000 hr command and perpetuating such monstrosities as RYR et al:rolleyes:

[Empty Cruise]

JW411,
Good post, sums it up nicely! But have to pull you up on one thing: age has nothing to do with it :E Now, a bit of tact and a pair of big brass ones might make all the difference, but age? No way, Jose! :p It's part of the tool-kit, and if it seems expeditious, will use it to our advantage.

Have never heard anybody whinge & moan over it like Farty, but there must be some insecurities-thingy going on there, me thinks. Ok, you tried it once, and it blew up in your face - believe me, that's happened to me too, but only 1 out of maybe 20 times. Now, just because you've become unstabilised on one NDB-approach doesn't mean that you'll never attempt another one, or start calling people who fly them all sorts of names := would you???

So once you're done ranting about ingratiating and approval-seeking, try looking up projection - it might lead you to the reason why you feel the need to display your anger towards people who don't hide behind their reinforced F/D door :O

Bottom line, the punters generally appreciate it! That's good enough for me - I'm not too impressed about this trend that drives our proffession down among bus drivers et al - if you think you have the leadership skills to drive a train, then by all means go do that - but don't point fingers at the people who take their job seriously and know what it involves. You're not just a bunch of button-punching pillocks who might as well have become bakers instead - you're professionals, nomatter what O'Leary tells you. Either live up to it or find another job :mad: Until such time, stop calling those who do their job propperly all names under the sun :rolleyes:

None of the above intended as disrespect to traindrivers, busdrivers or bakers :ok: - and not even to those "pilots" who've yet to grasp the extent of their commercial duties. But shame on you...

[unablereqnavperf]

Its people like Farty flaps that are bringing this proffesion down to gutter level.I have often done Pa's from the front of the cabin when a long delay is likely and when there is a technical issue with the aircraft. it has always been well recieved by the paying public, and they after all are the ones that contribute to our wages! Farty must be a ryanair pilot!

[Sobelena]

These discussions are pointless. There's an argument for and against everything. It all comes down to individual personalities. Just do what you feel comfortable with. It doesn't matter what it is because you'll NEVER please everyone!

[Firestorm]

Farty Flaps: you and I are never going to agree on anything. If you're too 'proud' (or wet) to get your hands dirty helping the rest of your crew, well, as I say, don't expect me to be your co-pilot.

I bet you'd have grasped a command with both your sweaty paws at 3000 hours if you'd had the opportunity. I will take the low cost airline opportunities for all they are worth as a stepping stone for greater things.

Quite how you had to turn this into hetrosexual versus homosexual discussion confounds me, but only manages to re-affirm my distrust of homosexuals.

[fmgc]

I am too ugly to do a PA in front of the Pax! :{

[FlyMD]

jw411, good post!

Good point also about the pilots standing there during deplaning :)

My take on it was that it was polite for the captain to greet his pax, so as far as practicable, i would stand in the cockpit door during boarding.

In case of major delays, or problems, standing in front of the pax and "look em in the eye" would work well.. then again, it was an MD80, where everybody could see me.. i guess it wouldn't work so well on a 747 :8

As far as the end of the flight: i always left that to the cabin crew, so people could thank them for the inflight service.. it was their show after all.. as for the flight deck, we would "take our leave" during the last PA before landing... If you stay seated during deplaning and fill out your logs and stuff, you can actually go in the back and help the hosties afterwards, if and when that is appropriate. After all, we all shared the same crew-bus going back to Ops-center, and were all interested in reaching beer-time asap, no?

Nowadays, in corporate and VIP aviation, not greeting the customer at the stairs in full uniform can get you fired... after the flight you accompany the pax to the terminal and ensure their asses safely reach the limousine seat... different world :p

[Iva harden]

Its all about attention seeking and massaging ego's, most passengers do not listen to the PA's in the first place or watch the safety demos. Look at the burk on youtube......should be on the stage in the comedy club or something similar....not very professional is it, makes a laughing stock of us. :ugh:

[gatbusdriver]

JW411, can't say I agree with all your posts. But this one is spot on. There are a few people who post on here (if they are flight crew) need to retire, or buck up their ideas.

Been on A330 to BGI. Got called out to make us 3 crew for hours. Turns out pax had been turfed off twice already for technical reasons. Just about to run out of hours, had to board pax with cowling open on no1 with engineers underneath (not ideal). In the flight deck could hear crew being given a lot of grief (usual ringleader causing trouble). Decided to come out to deflect questions from cc who were boarding, and trying to get pax sat down. Can't say I enjoyed it. But poor cc trying to answer questions they can't answer (am happily engaged, not trying to get any!).

Now a capt. Have no desire to be on public view. But have seen captains do it, and have seen the positive effects it has when it is done.

[Off Stand]

When I was an SCCM at EZY, whenever we had a substantial delay on the ground (tech or ATC), many a Captain would come out of the flight deck and address the pax on the PA and then answer any questions that they had to answer as the FO was more than capable to deal with the engineers and ground staff.
A) It took the heat off the cabin crew
B) It showed a human face of authourity that pax look for beyond the cabin crew.
I remember one time that we found an unclaimed bag on board on turn around and the bomb squade were called and we had to disembark. The Captain was more than happy to accompany me to the holding lounge to explain the situationto pax and answer any questions that they may have. It works wonders and I would welcome it if a similar situation arose in the future.
Sure, some of you flight crew may not want to take this approach and fair enough, but it does make a huge difference.

[bomarc]

when circumstance permits, I go face to face down the aisle explaining the problem/delay etc...this on 737 type.


I can imagine on a 747, your feet might hurt though.

[wobble2plank]

I know the bloke involved personally. Really nice guy, doesn't have any hang up's its just that he feels that talking face to face with the pax is ok when time permits. e.g Delayed.

It's all you weirdos who have to pull it apart, analyse it, hang stereotypes on it etc...

There are far more important things in life, get on with them.

It's his choice, not yours.

[calypso]

Stand up comedy in front of the pax - whatever rocks your boat but quite cheesy no doubt. I would be no good in any case so is a non starter.

PA in front of the pax to explain a serious delay- why not if it keeps the customers happy(ier) and they come back and keep flying with us. Surely a good use of all resources (CRM).

Make a round of tea - if I have time and I feek like it why not but quite unusual.

Helping clean the cabin - no way because is not my job but it will soon be if we all start doing it.

[swish266]

1. In my 20 yrs of flying, especially the second half (the first half did not do that much deadheading) when most of the time I was in first/biz never saw a Captain do this. BA, LH, AF, SQ CX etc. Don't know about lesser outfits.
2. After 9/11 to me a theater like this is a bit of a security breach.
3. If the SLF knew that the normal cockpit prep consists of a few hundred actions on the average wide body that the average crew are expected to do more or less in sequence, I doubt it they will be happy that the Guy is nice, but getting virtually out of the loop at the most crucial time...
Amen!
:ugh:

[gatbusdriver]

Dear swish

My god how lucky are you. In 20 years of flying!

If you care to understand the thread, we are talking about delays and explaining them to the public. Now i feel as though i should have underlined the word delays.

When you are delayed, you have time to carry out your 1,000,000 things you have to do b4 departure, then explain to the pax what is going on. I'm sure there is no security threat as we are generally on the ground with the air bridge attached.

It's not about being nice, it's about doing your job, and taking some of the heat from the cc.

[Iva harden]

Oh gatbusdriver, what a great chap/chapess you are !!:D

[javelin]

I used to fly with a Captain who always stood at the front, introduced himself, the crew and did the welcome on board - his name was Jumbo Jempson - a true gentleman and scholar.

I took note of the fact that on his flights, things tended to go really well, the crew were happy, the punters enjoyed themselves and I thought - perhaps it was partly due to the fact that the Captain said his piece to the pax directly, perhaps that we flew charter, I don't know.

Time goes on and I shift seats, now those who know me will already appreciate that I am somewhat shy and retiring so it was natural that I would adopt the technique applied by Captain Jempson.

11 years later I can report thus.

Being honest and truthful about delays, greeting the pax face to face and having a smile and a happy demeanour has helped plenty of times on both the Friday night IBZ's and the stack 'em high, sell 'em cheap Dom Rep flights.

Don't knock this chap, it works and after all, a bit of basic good customer service has never gone amiss in any walk of life :ok:

[Atishoo]

What a miserable bunch of gits you lot are.... (im sure you are all Rainboe)

If only you knew what it did to us nervous passengers when you come out and show us your human...... If only one pilot did that every so often, and made scared flyers a little happier surely thats gotta be a gr8 human thing to do hasnt it?

God knows theres enough hate, upset, and turmoil in the world, at least give us a break and dont treat your wage payers as stupid A*******. cuz were scared of the unknown. (dont forget your all taught the scary bits) were not :)

thank yauuuuuuuuu

:D

[Max Angle]

What a miserable bunch of gits you lot are....I think it just that nowadays most people who have been doing the job for a while are pretty unenthusiastic about it and would stop tomorrow if they could afford to. That GB airways guy is an exception and good luck to him.

[sideslyp]

Just as an observation, I have noticed that while flying budget airlines such as easyjet or ryans, it seems that the FO or captain announcement of any kind is pretty hard to come by. This is also prominent in situation where flights are delayed and yet the cockpit microphone is just silent. Then again, every time I step on with Virgin, BA, AA or Qantas, the flight deck is more then happy to at least address the passangers, give them an update whether that be on the delay or flight plan.

Whether we like it or not, budget airlines are not known for their levels of service, however a simple, professional announcement (no need for standing in front of PAX) does go a long way towards forming of an airline image. One budget airline that is doing something about that image seems to be Wizzair - and no, I don't work for them.

[Avman]

Just as an observation, I have noticed that while flying budget airlines such as easyjet or ryans, it seems that the FO or captain announcement of any kind is pretty hard to come by.

That's because many of them originate from other countries and struggle to speak conversational English, let alone ATC English! :}

[JJflyer]

Unfortunately for me the type of aircraft I fly I am still pretty far up front in the galley, visible but sort of away. Really no reason to go to the back. Do remember flying a smaller type earlier that allowed me to stand tall before tha crowd. I made a big effort to tell the people how sorry I was only be thrown a half full beer can at me by an irate pax resulting in a further delay as we proceeded to offload the dushbag and his belongings from the hold. No more PA's from the cabin:}
And I am not all that ugly really guys I am not :E

[the heavy heavy]

i have to say that every time i've seen this done the skipper's in question shared the same personality traits and 'crm' techniques. whilst not as rabid as flaps in his hate of these guys i have to say that they loved the attention.

also whilst half a dozen punters tell you how wonderful it was to see the capt (the same one's who gush at how brave you are at dinner parties) most of the cabin looks at the tool with the microphone with at best annoyance and a worst violent intent!

for me it's a non-starter, not to mention impossible, but i've no doubt there are guys/girls out there that carry it off wonderfully.

as for the crm issue's that have been mentioned on this thread. isn't it all about comunication between crews to remove ambiguity and doubt from decision making and task assingment whilst monitoring each other in an open and honest enviroment? making tea, cleaning seats, standing on the jetty etc etc etc isn't that really just a bunch of salad dressing on the side dish of the main issue?

i for one am fed up listening to 'crm' being quoted everytime somebody dosen't get his/her own way. i'm fed up with it being dragged into debates like this which are mearly matters of style. i'm most of all fed up with people who have poor leadership skills and no command authority confusing being nice with being compliant. i'm amazed that occasionally, but becoming more frequent, i fly with other pilots whose priority is keeping all the little darlings, in and out of unifrom, down the back happy whilst taking little notice of the operational enviroment that we find ourselves in and for whIch 'crm' training was designed to enhance.

like most of us i attempt to use the nasa team skills and the rest of the 'guf' to make my crews life easier by trying to modify those behaviours i have that can p*ss people off, which if un-checked only makes getting the job done more difficult and less safe. my alarm starts ringing when the guys/girls i'm with tell me how good their crm is( it happen's!), especially if they are crm instructors, or customer first or cc instructors etc etc or that they do something different from everybody else because they know better. i find within minutes the agenda's come out. it's almost never about flying more safely but it is all about them.

[boredcounter]

A) It took the heat off the cabin crew
B) It showed a human face of authourity that pax look for beyond the cabin crew.
A) The Cabin Crew should have the ability and understanding of the delay to explain it to the general public, once briefed.
B) The SCCM, Purser, CSDM whatever the name concerned, should have that authourity and does, simple. Perhaps, stripes need to be worn in the Cabin Crew world too. The Purser of a ship, is indeed an Officer and dressed as such.
If you need the Captain of the 'ship' to explain things, the Crew ain't doing it right.
Bored
Aviation for 20 years and 1800+ pax short-haul ships for 18 months as 'Cabin Crew'. Never seen the Captain of a ship back up what the Crew have been briefed. He never had to.

[xrba]

In the good old days of charter flying some 25 years ago, one of our captains had a novel form of keeping the pax amused during the inevitable delays down in Spain. The 1/11s' entertainment system was non-existent, so he used to while away the hours for them by, from the flight deck, playing his mouth organ to them over the PA! This opens whole realms of possibilities these days for those so inclined!!!

[Off Stand]

Boredcounter,

You seem to misunderstand me. Yes, the cabin crew should (and do) have the ability and understanding to explain the pax the nature of the delay, I couldn't agree more. When a Captain has come to address them over the PA in the cabin, he would virtually repeat what the senior had already said, but some pax seem happier when they have heard for the person in charge of the a/c. Also, sometimes seeing a different face helps too. Perhaps it was the nature of the pax that we sometimes carried, who knows!?!
I am not for one minute suggesting that the Captain should come out of the flight deck on every delay to speak the punters, that's just daft. And I would never insist on it either, but if he/she wants to, be my guest.

[gatbusdriver]

Here's how I see it (charter captain).

If i'm doing my job, the crew is well informed, and has the ability to explain the problem to the pax.

The problem is (and if you ask your crew,I think they will agree), pax don't like to believe cc. In my experience, a PA from the cabin works wonders (I'm not suggesting this has to be done, just speaking from my experience). CC have told me that it seems to calm down irate pax. Do I enjoy it?....NO. Can't stand making PA's from the flight deck, let alone cabin. Should you do this for every PA/minor delay?...ABSOLUTELY NOT, I have better things to do.

In general I make 3 PA's (if i'm PF).

Welcome on board/listen to safety brief
This is how we are getting there
The weather is/have a nice holiday

Do I make tea?.....yes, if i'm on the jumpseat, and not doing anything. Our crew are generally very busy.

Do I do seat pockets?........not now. Generally quite busy on turn around. Used to do them as a smoking FO. As I didn't have the cheek to start smoking whilst the crew were busy.

To sum up, I have no desire to perform in front of pax. I have no desire to be liked by crew. When I go to work, I have every desire to get the best out of people (be it ground handling/fo/cc/ops), and most of all have a relaxed and safe day out.

[Dream Land]

As an FO I have flown with the type of captain that likes to be everyones best friend, hello, welcome aboard bla bla, problem I have now is that there is just not enough time to do all this PR, I fly short haul and usually arrive at the aircraft 40 minutes prior to push, there isn't any time for all this back slapping behavior, preflight, crew briefing, cockpit prep and brief, load sheet prep and push back. I have on two occasions made a PA from the Purser station during very extenuating circumstances but prefer to stay at my appointed station. :}

[Hookerbot 5000]

The cap in question sounds like a rather nice chap ;):p

[DownIn3Green]

Hey JJ, What are you up to nowadays????

That wasn't in the Point of No Return with the beer thing was it?

PA's from the cabin serve their purpose in the right time and place, but not as a general routine...

On the other hand, I understand JJ's reluctance to stand up because as he says, he's not ugly....

If the truth be known, he can't come out of the cockpit or he'd get no sleep on the layover...:ok::ok::ok:

[V1]

As a Captain I've done this for years when faced with a particularly frustrating delay (when you most want to hide!)
I think it shows great leadership. As the Captain you are in charge of the airplane and crew, and responsible for the passengers and it shows that you are happy to shoulder that responsibility and take the wrap when things are going wrong.
It also demonstrates that you are taking an interest in the people who are paying your salary and even if you can't actually do anything to fix the aeroplane or alter the slot time, it shows that you recognise the delay must be as frustrating for them as it is for you.
So stop hiding in the cockpit, lead from the front and face the music!

[Farty Flaps]

V1. Thats where the problem lies. YOU think its great leadership. A minority may agree but the vast majority of cabin crew are happy to let you take the heat with no increase in respect or team spirit.They just think old tim nice but dim is sorting it and carry on gossiping. Passengers, well they are too p1ssed of to care . Ask them later 90% of them wont remember you as the captain . in fact they wont be able to recall if your a capt, f/o,cadet or a psr with stripes. You wont gain respect, just tolerance and crocodile smiles.
Therin lies the achilles heel for the Supporters. 80% dont know and dont care who you are, the other twenty are completely inconsolable so you are doing nothing but massaging your own ego.
After a face to face with an irate pax I was reported. the complainant couldnt recall which pilot it was. Im 6 feet and blonde. The f/o is 5'7 and bald with ginger side walls and not a little chubby. You see thats the public.

[puddle-jumper2]

There's no write or wrong in all this, it's simply a matter of choice.

Been flying for over 25 years and can only remember a few time's I have done this. Once in the cabin and once got off the a/c and addressed pax. in lounge. I'm more than happy to talk to someone whilst sitting in the cockpit on the ground, whether that is because they are not happy with something, are a nervous passenger or simply are being sociable. To be honest I don't like leaving the cockpit when we have passengers on board and the APU is running, no disrespect to the F/O but if the APU fire bell went off I would prefer to be involved in managing the situation and not looking like an idiot standing in the cabin whilst he calls an evacuation :eek:

To me the most important thing is to always keep the passengers informed, whether you do that from the flight deck or (if you have the skills like this Capt.) from the cabin makes know difference.

[POLICE]

All this "People who are paying your salaries" rubbish.
They only do becaue wer'e cheaper than next door.
They wouldn't, if we weren't.:ugh:
Face the truth.
As far as standing up in front, I find it sickening, a form of attention deficit syndrome!
This business has become a ridiculous, rushed, snag carrying excercise, with wild boars for passengers, rubbish throwing, drunken, stag party trips.
I feel that my profession has sunk with the times. I would be happier driving a bloo£y coal train, except it wouldn't pay the bills. Oh yes and we've run out of the stuff!
So any announcements from the cockpit only. There's a curtain and all between us and an open door, remember security??? :ugh:
Just get on with flying the darn thang, land and go home, that's where life hides!
If you want some glory, why not come in on your days off and parade up and down the terminals in your glorious uniform? And... what's a hat for?
I for one will be gone in 7 years, hahahahahahaha!!! :D

[FlyMD]

The important things are what you say and how you say it: if you can look the pax in the eye, tell them the facts and nothing but, without any show or attempts at humor, and NEVER EVER lie or patronize them, you're way ahead.

On the other hand, if your general contempt for SLF and fellow crew drips through your every word, like with our friend Farty, you may be better off leaving any sort of human interaction to your colleagues...

[Mr A Tis]

From my experience, PA announcements are generally pretty appalling in sound quality. Either squelching, mumbling or shouting & from the flightdeck usually almost always inaudible.

[Wessex Boy]

Having flown as SLF from LHR -CDG return last week, I had 2 excellent experiences with the FD crew, on the way out my kids and I were allowed up into the office for a chat and look around whilst the rest of the pax were loading, gives them some perspective against the Warrior cockpit they usually see!

On the way back the Captain was standing there as we boarded so I joked with him about how long it would take us to get a stand at LHR. Upon arrival we had to wait for 15 mins to have guidance switched on, the Captain was there to return the banter as I left:)

As ex-mil and current PPL it is nice to have some contact with the front in these uber-secure times!

[Few Cloudy]

I am amazed to read how many so called professionals are agin the old man informing the passengers. I also note that these are the contributors using gutter language, which perhaps gives the lie to the "professional".
These passengers are the people who pay our wages and if you have time (and you do have time if there is a big delay) you are the one person with all the facts, who can
a. Inform people what is going on
b. In this way show that it is not the fault of your airline
c. Give the cabin crew a break from incessant queries and worse
A previous company encouraged this behaviour and also saying cheerio personally to the folks after flight - in the days when that was possible. Passengers sit in a tube with no control over what happens, having to follow someone else's procedures and it is nice for them to see that there is someone in charge who is prepared to show himself.
I have also personally been down to the gate, when our passengers had to wait there for ages, borrowed the mike and let them know the score. Of course, I could have sat back on board and read the paper but that was not my idea of doing a good job.
As for it being an ego trip for the captain, it never felt like that to me - more of a chore - but a neccessary one - and by the way I never changed my mind about this when I flew for the LOCO later.
So, to those real professionals amongst you, keep it up - and to the ignorant ranters, maybe it is time to disembark this PPRuNe...
FC.

[ScottyDoo]

You know, I just don't get it. I can maybe see why F.Flaps hates his job in a miserable LoCo airline (or is it her job - you can never be certain with that kind of thing)

but why should anyone have such a beef with anyone else who actually enjoys their career??

If the Capt "just gets off on it", a quick search shows no shortage of oratory clubs around the world so it looks like lots of normal people out there also "get off" on speaking in front of people.

[Empty Cruise]

Funny thing is that - apart from Farty - many of the people advocating in-cabin-PAs are LoCO operators :O Maybe because we don't have that much else to offer our punters in the way of service, let alone the kind with a bit of personal touch to it. Seems like my outfit (Blue Ward, so to speak :ugh: ) actively discourage it, maybe along the lines that if you don't show people that there are absoluetly no frills, they'll think that they are paying too much. OTOH, treat them like cattle and they'll realise that they're only paying cattle fare...

:yuk:

[grimmrad]

It is interesting to see how different obviously the perception of the job seems to be form the passengers side of view (nice to see him) and his colleagues (going to vomit, get a life, weird). Very revealing isn't it...?

[Yossarian]

As far as ideas go, I think it is a bad one. But that is just my opinion. I will do a PA from the flightdeck explaining the delay to the pax as best as I can. If you are the captain and want to do a PA from the cabin, so be it. You are the captain, and it is your decision to make.

[westie]

For my part, if the Captain sees it fit to talk from the cabin then absolutely fine. I have never heard of passengers complaining when this happens but I quite often get negative feedback when I have hid behind my door doing PA's. Now, I assess every situation on it's merits.

[llondel]

I have to agree with Mr Tis, half the time I can't hear what's being said over the PA from the flight deck anyway. It's marginally better if you're plugged in with headphones on flights that have this facility, but I think it's either a case that the feed from the cabin microphones is better set up, or the pilots tend to speak more softly (I know I do the same a lot of the time) than the cabin crew.

[ChristiaanJ]

Few Cloudy,
Thanks. We agree.
When SLF, I do appreciate seeing the captain showing his face during a delay or similar problem, if for no other reasons than:
- he's not at panic stations up front,
- he is civilised enough to realise he's got a hundred + guests at the back, while he's the m/c. So talking to them a moment face to face is simply being polite and competent (even if half your guests don't understand what you're saying, ... either because of language, or PA sound quality -over to CC then.).

[SLFguy]

"It is interesting to see how different obviously the perception of the job seems to be form the passengers side of view (nice to see him) and his colleagues (going to vomit, get a life, weird). Very revealing isn't it...?"


:D:D:D:D:D

[Wingswinger]

"It is interesting to see how different obviously the perception of the job seems to be form the passengers side of view (nice to see him) and his colleagues (going to vomit, get a life, weird). Very revealing isn't it...?"



It is only a FEW of his colleagues who are making such posts here. The attitude of such people contributes to the decline in status of the professional pilot and it allows others who may have an axe to grind to portray us as mere drivers.

[Ashling]

As a Captain your in a leadership role and at certain times your crew and passengers look to you, how you choose to behave at that point is significant.

In my experience crew have always appreciated me taking the time to talk directly to the passengers. They already get a-lot of grief and do a remarkable job with great patience and humour most of the time so if I can help them out by coming out of my HQ and facing the passengers then I am happy to do so. Many crew look at a Captains refusal to do so as moral cowardice which in some cases it undoubtably is.

When I'm a passenger the single most frustrating thing about any delay/problem is not knowing what on earth is going on. When I do know its easier to deal with. Why is it that so many operators treat people like imbeciles and deny them info or tell half truths and then wonder why they are frustrated and angry. Treat people with respect and honesty and you will get that respect mirrored back. Yes you can provide this info effectively from the flight deck via PA, and on a wide body or split class cabin there is no other practical way, but on some occasions on narrowbodies the human touch is nice and in my experience is appreciated by most of the passengers.

Prior to joining the airlines I was a pax on an EZY to GVA that diverted due to fog. On the ground at the div the Capt took the time to explain what was happening and passed through the cabin chatting to people, he also got some of the kids old and young on the flightdeck. Did people think he was a good Captain ? No they thought he was a great Captain. Its the vote of the passengers that counts here, they pay their money to fly with us and by default pay my salary so if I can keep them happy and coming back then I'd be a fool not to do it.

As for some of the comments implying people who do this are somehow massaging a needy ego or looking for a shag. Well if you are professional pilots, in this respect at least, you are a disgrace to yourselves and your profession.

[Wingswinger]

Well said, Ashling. I didn't have time to elaborate on my previous post but what you've just popped on here would have been the gist of it.

In my time I've (a) used the cabin PA (b) wandered through the cabin to draw the flak (c) gone up to the departure lounge with the whole crew to speak to disgruntled, delayed passengers and (d) invited people to the flight deck (I still do on the ground). It is the right and proper thing to do for our customers when the occasion demands it.

What that BA captain did was not extraordinary. It should be the norm.

[boredcounter]

Sorry, hope you do not think I was having a pop at you, I think we may indeed have crossed. The point I was trying to make, any member of the Crew is equally qualified to address the travelling public with the truth. The Grey haired, 4 ring gentleman may have a calming influence, but his (or sorry, her) job is to manage the aircraft, the cabin belonging to the Cabin Crew, by deligation/default. If the numpty in 4C wants to hear it from the Captain, fine. (Touching wood honestly) Should it all go Pete Tong big style and you invite 4C to leave by the nearest slide, will he look to the FD for confirmation, or go with your shove.
The problem is the perception of the bums on seats, worsened by the airlines themself. I know you back end guys and girls are highly trained and tested pros who do know what is going on. As the airlines sell service, service and more service, your primary role of safety appears diluted with your additional tasks.
Keep up the good work, fore and aft of the door, as you all see fit. Works as I see it.
Never saw the Master leave the Bridge, my pax never thought he could, in port or under steam..........................................

[Dogma]

boredcounter

The Pilots are in charge of the flight deck and the Crew are in charge of the cabin????!!!:confused:

99% of the time our Cabin Managers / Crew do a stunning job and handle difficult situations all the time. However, the Captain is "in charge" of the whole aircraft. Lock, stock and barrell!

If Skippers do not have the tallent/balls to lead from the front, then head back to the RHS!:ok:

[Clarence Oveur]

If Skippers do not have the talent/balls to lead from the front, then head back to the RHS!Perhaps that is the answer. Some need to show they have talent, or balls, or both.

[smith]

Bit of thread creep here but I was flying from Osaka to LHR as SLF on Japanese Airlines and after pushback all the groung crew lined up in a regimented, military style line and waved in a syncronised way as the a/c taxied by, gave me a chuckle.

[the heavy heavy]

:O

seem's all the guy's who do theese front of the cabin pa's are now becoming desperate to tell us just how good their leadership and people skills are, how very interesting.

just for the record i have wandered round the cabin speaking to the punters after the few 'incidents' i've had. i've even been up to the gate to quell a riot during the gate gourmet fiasco (without my hat or jacket i may add, :=) and i've even went and re-assured a very nervous pax after an eng surge on t/o. amazing crm or leadership? don't think so just a bit of common sense and in all cases actions prompted by the problems being faced by other members of my team who accepted the offer of help. we all know that every situation has various solutions. my point is, and i think flaps and a few others agree, that there are some who at any given chance will leap to the front galley, hat medals and gloves on and act like total tools whilst convinced they are showing the rest of us how it should be done! like i've said already it's all the guys/girls who tell me how good their crm is that tend to be the hardest work and the least effective.

b4 you know it you'll be doing pa's in the ga instead of the gear!

this kenneth branagh thing is impossible on my jet, would look at bit silly doing it on the upper deck stairs! i would think 95% of long haul csd's would consider it a major crm failing if the pilots started engaging the pax in the cabins with face to face pa's unless they had requested the help. are we suggesting that our people skills are so wondeful that the cc require our intervention to keep the pax calm?

isn't the point of the comunication element of crm traning to ensure that information can be passed thru the crew structure effectivley enough to allow all members of the crew to perform at an optimum? in suggesting that the capt should be making some of his pa's from the cabin are we suggesting that our cc colleagues are incapable of dealing with our customers needs without our direct physical intervention? if they request it then in a short haul enviroment i would almost always comply with a request to aid the cc if they felt they required it. isn't any other intervention a display of poor crm and dare i say it narcacism? i always thought that leadership was about giving those under our care the backing, support and encouragement to do their job better whilst letting them get on with the task that they had been given, in this case dealing with the pax!

an old sqn ldr once said to me as i was running to a has, "don't run son, it worries the troops'. having seen a fear of flying course at first hand i seem to remeber that one of the triggers for nervous flyers is anything out of the their percieved ordinary. i would suggest that the capt in the front galley with a mic is probably not what they were expecting! your great idea to calm them may be the thing that puts them over the edge, ever thought of that?

or maybee it's a little jet thing?:ok:

[Gipsy Queen]

Well, it's an interesting thread. Being another old fart, I'm in agreement with JW411 (Post 36). Sadly, in my view, things are very different now.

All the variations of the two ways of looking at it - face the music or hide - seem to have been covered. But I would make one (irrelevant) point. Of all the countless trips made, only one is outstanding in my memory - well, there is another one but that involved Big Airways in the days when they served that godawful Arc de Triomphe so-called wine and is not printable here - and that was when I was dead heading back to Dusseldorf.

We were down to altitude when the "shortly landing in Dusseldorf" bit came over the Tannoy. "Our associate hotels are the blah, blah, blah" and then she came to the tricky bit. " . . . holding a wine festival featuring the local Ingenheimer Kloster Liebfraunenbeg halb brocken, no trocken, splutter, splutter, giggle . . " bang, click. She then tried again but, due to a fit of the giggles, did even less well than the first time. Much mirth and merriment among PAX.

A little while later, click "Captain speaking. Cabin staff; doors to manual please - if you can find them . . ". Even more mirth and merriment among SLF and you can't have too much of either when a passenger in that horrid one-eleven.

I remember this because it was a simple display of humanity absent from all the other flights now long forgotten.

PS How nice of all you Ppruners to remember my birthday! Ta ever so. :)

[Few Cloudy]

Actually Smith, this is done at all Japanese airports for all passenger flights and is a very nice tradition (though I am sure there are those here who will find it pointless showmanship...) as compared to the sight of your tugman / chockman scratching his backside and chewing gum.

Back to PA. - you have a captive audience there and it is quite possible to overdo it. You have people going to weddings, going to funerals, visiting friends and going to/coming from difficult business sessions.

Just because you are in a good mood, doesn't mean it will be universally infectious, so the humour which amuses some passengers will annoy others. The passengers have to listen to a lot of standard stuff (often in several languages) and all they want is some honest info from the horses mouth.

Best way is an honest, matter of fact human style. Try to imagine one passenger back there (easier of course if you are looking... and it's true that only works on a smaller ship) and talk to him. That way you stand the best chance to get the point across.

Don't underestimate the value of good cockpit PA though - and ask for reports from the CC on the sound quality.

FC.

[Basil]

SLFguy,
Don't assume that all those claiming to be major airline captains here are genuine.
As I'm sure you are already aware they could be anything from a kid to the pilot in command of an air taxi.
Which brings me to another point. The captain is not 'in charge' of the flight deck. As pilot in command the captain is in COMMAND of the aircraft and the authority of the cabin chief to be in CHARGE derives from the captain's authority as stated in the Air Navigation Order.
The captain's right to conduct the flight as wished within the law is absolute and, thankfully, nothing published in this or any other forum will alter that.


boredcounter,
Never saw the Master leave the Bridge, my pax never thought he could, in port or under steam
Really? You astonish me but I must bow to your experience as a steamship officer.

[everynowandthen]

Having been a frequent member of the SLF contingent over the last 35 years I'm pretty astonished by the attitude of the mob who consider it beneath themselves to make an appearance under specific circumstances to calm/placate us. If there was some crisis occurring in your company, who would you rather explained it to you? Your chairman or a "spokesman". Would you look up to him for having an attitude that his job is to run the company & he feels no need to involve himself with the minions beneath him & the customers?
A Captain making a personal effort to explain an unpleasant situation has 2 effects. Firstly, he carries far more credibility as cc are obviously not perceived as having anything like his technical abilities & so his announcements carry far, far more weight. Who would you rather explain to you why your car isn't working - the mechanic or the receptionist? A tinny voice over the pa is something we're very used to whereas a physical appearance hugely improves the impact of what he is saying. Secondly, surely it has to take a lot of weight off the shoulders of the crew? Under these circumstances I've seen them being pestered incessantly with (sometimes incredibly stupid) questions from passengers who, I can assure you, generally shut up when they are told what's what by the man in charge. I reckon that 99.9% of the time, we don't know who senior cabin crew members are.
I think this is all about a perception of what your job is. I think the majority of passengers do not just see you as just a driver. You are seen as being in charge of the whole aircraft - passengers & crew. I have a couple of friends who are Captains & they both see their job as not just flying the aircraft but managing it too, with all the responsibilities it entails.
Personally, I reckon those of you who are prepared to make an appearance are doing their jobs correctly & showing some initiative - you are greatly appreciated by the majority of us. Perhaps there is an element of cowardice to those who won't show their face - let the cabin crew take the sh*t?.
However, I can do without the ones who feel the need to pass on life stories, Tommy Cooper impersonations etc etc

[virga67]

At my airline the Captain is almost required to welcome all pax and say goodby at the end of the flight. And I must say it is very nice to still hqave some contact with my pax. Before 9-11 we always flew with the cockpit door open and I really miss the moments of interaction with the SLF. Glad to see that more crews go for the personal touch

[GreatCircle]

I have found in certain circumstances making a personal appearance, workload notwithstanding at shut-down, or during delays can help placate those who after all help pay our stipend every 2 or 4 weeks...I wouldn't do it personally as a matter of course, and it would very much depend on the precise situation, but it can be a nice touch, provided it doesn't turn into a song and dance act with crass humour.

Secondly, this thread was started by someone who appreciated the effort of the skipper on the service in question - and I don't think the toxic responses of those jaded with their lot are that helpful to be honest. Given the public at large use this site as a reference tome in some instances, how do you think some of the more negative responses are construed by those out in the wide world ?

[Two's in]

Clearly "Business Acumen" has not been instated for the ATPL yet if some of these posts are an indicator. Since pilots became the plaything of accountants, it makes sense to understand and play by those rules, one of which is being able to extrapolate the connection between cheerful smiley faces, full load factors, and improved pay and conditions for the crew. If you can understand fluid dynamics, a simple linear relationship should be relatively easy.

[Donnie Brascoe]

Some do and some dont. Agreed on delays longer than an hour that you know are going to be longer than an hour there is no excuse not to go out and tell the passengers.
Personally in all the situations that i have gone out and faced the pax on the PA it has brought them "on board" with the problem rather than just screaming at the cabin crew. Answering all questions from them face to face totally disarms them they then have not a lot to complain about, if they dont like the answer they can find their bags and "off load".

It says professional on my licence and part of the modern day skill set of a professional is passenger management as well as aircraft and crew management, how we all choose to do that is up to us. Whether we sit behind the flight deck door and tell "porky pies" and the usual "it will all be ready in half an hour" and then again in half an hour "it will just be another half an hour" is surely going to inflame a situation.

When we go and see our Dr (yet another professional ) we expect to be able to ask questions directly to his/her face and we dont appreciate being fobbed off with half truths. Well the travelling public are knowledtgable nowadays so the truth delivered face to face on a long delay i have found goes a long way to raising a few smiles and showing consideration that we as a company understand the inconvenience being caused. Makes them want to come back which keeps me in a job, which means my mortgage gets paid .. which keeps my Mrs from bending my ear. So actually its a selfish act from the flight deck for an easy life at home..

[Few Cloudy]

A few years back there was a great cartoon in - I think the Herald Tribune, in which the CC is shown on the PA saying "Ladies and Gentlemen, in your seat pocket you will find a card with our fifteen most common excuses for being late...
Your captain suggests that you spend the next forty minutes familiarising yourself with them."
Well, the fact that so many people laughed at that showed just how out of line it really was.
Corporate identity doesn't stop at the cockpit door - in either direction!
FC.

[kowloon]

Well unfortunately I know the U tube comedian involved and whilst he has the best of intentions I am most surprised. An ex Naval flying standards instructor well known for his self appreciation I am amazed by his misjudgement. He happens to be a very experienced, decorated and capable pilot. However I expect his F/O is glad to be alone on the flight deck for a breather since CRM is not this mans strong point. := That said I find a regular display of leadership and public PA's where the opportunity exists usually goes down very well and rarely get negative feed back from crew or pax. I just regret this man is obviously still flattering his own ego to the detriment of his cringing colleges.
Trying too hard I think.:ugh:

[FWOF]

The bottom line is, that as SLF (and a nervous one), my 'safety and comfort' is paramount. And I want to hear the pilot, maybe even see him. I may be in a minority, maybe the other drunken louts on board don't give a monkeys but I do. When the Captain or Crew have something to say, I want to listen.

So, for those amongst you who think it's cringe worthy or something to do with internal and comapny politics, then spare a thought for those of us who really DO appreciate the work you put in. And speaking entirely for myself, it makes MY experience less stressful and more enjoyable. Do please keep it up :D

[Farty Flaps]

heavy heavy has it right. All these spouting what great leadership it is are just spouting self fullfilling sh1te. It might be great leadership in their opinion or the mess after high jinks but not to your average crew member or punter. It would be interesting to correalate the opinions of leadership with peoples flying background. IE Mil or civvy.
Kowloon refers to the u tube chap as having bad crm skills. So does this great leadership and bonding exercise suddenly change that. Not a bit . I feel that this sort of thing on a regular basis demonstrates just how narcisism like this is inversely related to good crm and leadership.
PS Im not gay

[gatbusdriver]

Do not listen to farty

I have worked him/her out for what he is (he=he/she, him=him/her).

Complete bull:mad:er. If you read his previous posts (all of them) a lot of what he says does not add up.

Obviously on this site to wind people up.

Lies about his sexuality/flying experience (cabin or flight deck).

Just ignore him, he is a little sad, but fortunately in the minority.

Looking forward to pprune starting a site that isn't anonymous, to prevent people like farty posting.

[GreatCircle]

Interesting stuff this. What started out as a simple comment about how one particular skipper handled a specific situation in his/her opinion as the best way - by simply talking to the pax outside of the office door has turned into some sort of free for all rant about the merits of CRM (how the hell it got there I have no clue), and excessive paper-work when pulled up on stand...or some sort of rant about airline economics with a comparison to aerodynamics...

As I said before, it is up to the individual to decide how best to handle specific situations and how best to explain to the pax what is going on. Keeping them in the dark using the mushroom philosophy is a recipe for disaster IMHO, and telling them all you can, clearly and efficiently and what you EXPECT the next steps and timelines to be I have found works wonders

Simple enough. Right ?

[llanfairpg]

I remember saying CHEERIO as the pax disembarked at Glasgow one evening.

They were all Rangers supporters on a charter who had a three hour delay and had lost the match.

Quite a few of them offered to inserts various parts of the aircraft and other miscellania in my anal passage as they went down the steps. I still managed to thank them all for flying with us but it did take the edge off it!

As for Captains showing their faces quite, a few I have flown with would be better never saying anything to anyone, anwhere in any situation. In fact when i was a FO I used to wish some Captains would just stay in the cabin.

[k3lvc]

Had been watching this thread but never seen it in action until a return from BCN-LHR (BA487) tonight. Slight delay on departure but very capable Captain made himself visible and explained the situation. Good to see and, IMHO, should be done more often.

[SLFguy]

"I remember saying CHEERIO as the pax disembarked at Glasgow one evening.
They were all Rangers supporters on a charter who had a three hour delay and had lost the match."
Now THAT's what I call poor judgement...:uhoh:

Edit: I don't mean that in a lighthearted banter stylie by the way.

[Farty Flaps]

Come on gatbus , wind up or not it illicited some good responses . Ive dropped the gay thing, now the issues amongst aircrew (not punters ) are now a debate on whether this is blatent narcism or does it have any real value vis a vis crm, leadership and the different interpretations of both. As for the pax perspective ..well thats another issue. Personnaly I have addressed in the lounge after a horrendous delay. It did nothing to help.
The MAJORITY of punters these days cant distinguish between the flight deck members and have little interest in them. The only real justification for such behaviour is self indulgence, with the agreement of the minority of like minded punters.
Just as I have no interest in whos birthday it is when Im a pax on easy jet. I paid for Ato B and not a bonding exercise with the crew or pax.
Its all abit out of touch with the majority of the public who can afford to fly and more in keeping with a particular brand of management favoured by the commissioned types and in the civilian world corporate bonding excercises.:zzz:
The U tube clip says it all. :ok:

[Yacov]

Nice touch from the Captain- I am all for 'people power' and my wife and 'kids' would agree.
Appreciate someone going the extra mile and seeing it as an ego trip is laughable.
Yrs,
Yacov

[nugpot]

This thread just proves how many pilots are egotistical control freaks, trying to enforce their narrow view of life on others.

Fact is, as long as another captain stays within SOP and company rules, it has stuff all to do with you whether he speaks to pax from the cockpit or cabin, makes tea for the cabin crew or greets pax on their way out.

It is his flight to conduct as he wishes.

I can only assume that most of the critics are FO's. They do have the advantage of a mind uncluttered by command experience.....

[one four sick]

Some people still don't get it.

I don't want my profession and it's currently still "reasonable image" dragged down by some narcissistic to$$er at the front!
I have seen enough idiots that think just because they made it into the left hand seat, they now have a licence to become representatives or entertainers!
They are more often than not an embarrassment at best and a huge pain in the a:mad:e otherwise.
If the reason is for "calming" and "feeling sorry for your delay" then how about doing the same in the middle of an emergency descent! That's when the SLF need your touchy/feely c:mad:p most!
Get back in that cockpit and enough of the theatrics, fly the plane, do your PAs, just don't get up!

[nugpot]

one four sick,
Why, pray tell, do you need a "reasonable image", or any image for that matter? Your job is to carry paying passengers as safely and pleasantly as possible from point A to B.
Or did you become a pilot for the uniform and adoring hero-worship from those without pilot's licences?

[corsair]

Some of you guys should seriously consider transferring to a cargo airline.

Maybe it's time to do away with the old Captain, First Officer, naval tradition type ranks and rename the crew as say, flight management technicians with a team leader and an operator. Uniforms could be polo shirts and baseball caps in airline's colour scheme. That would remove any chance of people getting an ego trip just because they're pilots, sorry FMT's.

No need for a 'reasonable image' or status for the profession. Leave all that status nonsense to the real professionals, Doctors, Architects, Lawyers et al.:rolleyes:

[nugpot]

No need for a 'reasonable image' or status for the profession. Leave all that status nonsense to the real professionals, Doctors, Architects, Lawyers et al.

Having worked as an engineer for a few years, and having golf buddies who are doctors and lawyers, I can safely say that no other professional industry has the same pathetic need for status and image (except maybe TV evangelists and politicians, but then again, I don't count them as professionals). Being a professional has everything to do with work and nothing to do with image.

[Sobelena]

This is senseless. Here is what I posted back on page 3:

These discussions are pointless. There's an argument for and against everything. It all comes down to individual personalities. Just do what you feel comfortable with. It doesn't matter what it is because you'll NEVER please everyone!

I really would like to see this thread locked. It's an embarassment to the profession. :mad:

[cheesycol]

I agree whole heartedly with Sobelena. Dry up, this thread is cringe worthy.

If you feel it's appropriate, do. If you don't, don't.

I've just lost 10 minutes of my life reading this claptrap.

[boredcounter]

10 mins to make your mind up?:)

[Agent Oringe]

"Professional"

Simply put, means you are paid to do the job, as opposed to;

"Amateur"

Which also simply put, means you are not paid to do the job.

End of.


PLEASE LOCK THIS THREAD.:ugh:

[Few Cloudy]

Anyone who calls passengers Self Loading Freight (and yes I know it started years ago in Roger Bacon) displays a disarming lack of what the profession is about. This is a people business, whether you like it or not.

In my experience, the big difference between the left and the right seat was not to do with flying - if you can't fly you will be out of either of them pretty fast - it had to do with management.Corporate identity has nothing to do with hand and eye coordination, which can be learned on any computer these days.

People calling themselves "...sick" and using the censored tab a lot are not really in the business. The Captain is running a little branch of the company as long as it is entrusted to him. That is what the company wants from its commanders and that is why they make such a big thing of upgrading. This means he should get on with and get to know his crew, the ground reps and do his best for the passengers.

The style each Captain uses is his personal choice - I have known some great ones and some less great ones. The great ones weren't neccessarily the showman type - just sincere and thoughtful. It means putting a bit more into it than just flying: if you don't like the heat, stay out of the left seat.
For those who don't "cringe" at the thought of being helpful, it is one of the satisfactions of the job and if you do it right, involves the whole crew.

FC.

[ChristiaanJ]

FC,
Well-reasoned post, and I agree.
But... Anyone who calls passengers Self Loading Freight (and yes I know it started years ago in Roger Bacon)....I think you're over-reacting....
It's part of the lingo now, here on the forum and elsewhere. I don't mind being called SLF, when I'm part of cattle class.
We can always get our own back about "the button-pushers at the pointy end being fast asleep when a landing goes "boing.... uh .... BOING ..... uh .... SCREECH".

[Few Cloudy]

Hi ChristiaanJ,

I know you don't mind - any more than I mind being called Driver / Airframe!
What is it in French anyway? Les Embarquemats?

I guess though, that it is symptomatic of a general diminishing respect that people have for each other these days. Referring to passengers as passengers or customers as some airlines do, reinforces that respect and leads to better service ultimately.

FC.

[Animalclub]

I'm pleased I've retired from the airline business after reading part of this crap... sorry "thread".
In the 70's we took a Captain with each of us lowly Sales Reps on sales calls... and Travel Agents appreciated it. Some TAs asked if the Captain would speak to some of their commercial accounts. All the Captains enjoyed the experience... mind you, all the Captains enjoyed their jobs - which doesn't appear to be the case nowadays. I should say that the Captain was paid for his time.
Let's face it - those passengers help pay your wages and they feel good when the Captain speaks to them on his walk through the aircraft!

[roll_over]

I recently had a flight with a Captain Davis on the BA 777 fleet. It was my second time flying with him. Why do I remember that? Because I thought he was a really good captain, gave the passengers a lot of information , saw him out and about and generally seemed enthusiastic.

I can't name any other Captains that I have flown with, but when I heard his name again it made me smile. To me, he was a great Captain.

[Chris777]

Provided the captain does not make a fool of himself (ie in the youtube clip posted earlier, or this one too http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wl5A2j1mGXc), then why not? One of the consequences of quick turnarounds seems to be that the flight crew no longer make an appearance. No need to hide behind the controls! Passengers are really interested to see who you are, and it can be frustrating when pilots are heard but never seen. I'm in favour.

[airbus-commander]

As a captain, I have always believed that you should make a physical appearance when in command. This is because the passengers onboard are placing their lives in my hands, and that they should be able to trust in my decision making!!!

[El Rey Leon]

airbus-commander (http://www.pprune.org/forums/member.php?u=181399)

Dude How long have you been a commander???

I hope you will never make it to My PCE otherwise we will be doing catwalks infront of the passengers!:=

I Strongly disagreee with you! Our job in inside Alcatraz! We stay in there as much as we can when there are passegers onboard

[ChristiaanJ]

http://www.pets-on-the-net.com/forums/images/smilies/lol2.gif

[airbus-commander]

I have been a commander for quite a few years 10+.

Secondly i disgaree with your statement about the flight deck being alcatraz. I try to get as many passengers enthusiastic about flying but at the same time confident in my abilities!

Are you a commander or a commanders bitch?

[Few Cloudy]

Three or four sensible posts and back to the jungle - pride of simba indeed!

[malagamike]

everyone is moaning that a captain should not be stood in the front cabin doing a pa. you captains should take a moment and listen to the quality (or lack of) of the pa´s that are done from the flight deck. often they can not be heard or understood which makes them doing them pointless. dont you ever test the volume before a flight?
obviously not.

[FWOF]

I've followed this thread from the start and have made my posts. I'm therefore somewhat perplexed and startled by the continued amount of 'girly' and 'school playground' b1tching that continues.

SURELY the point made was from a passengers perspective, as well as CC. Speaking, once again, as a passenger (therefore a customer), I appreciate the courtesy of the Captains talk, all be it on a short trip made every week. I even remember the name of a Captain in particular, who's delivery was cheerful, clear to hear and understand, with the air of comfortable authority ... all things us paying passengers would like to hear.

The rest of the 'in industry' arguing and b1tching doesn't paint you in the most favourable of lights.

Just my opinion of course.

[Striker]

OMG!

The clip of the guitar playing captain is utterly cringeworthy. I almost threw up.

He just looked like David Brent in the office.

[Dream Land]

In the states, many SWA crews do a good job at entertaining the passengers, don't really feel that they are less professional whatsoever, I don't operate in this type of culture but have nothing against it.

[speaker]

SLF point of view...

Flying EIDW to EGLL in March this year on Aer Lingus. We were on the tarmac at Dublin waiting to close the doors and suddenly all the power went off, que a few nervous people saying god whats going on, captain came straight on and told us power would be back momentarily and it was. Apparantly someone disconnected the ground power. Then we were delayed 30 minutes waiting for a tech to come on board and clear some warning off the system. Again captain came on and explained. Finally he announced we'd missed our slot so we'd be taking on fuel to save time the other end. Again no problem, we were kept up to date and eventually took off.

Nearing london then because of high winds and heavy traffic he announced we had to hold for at least 20 mins and spoke for a good while about how taking on fuel saved us from having to divert. He spoke again during the approach and after what felt like a tricky crosswind final, perfectly touched down. After shutdown, cockpit door pops open and he stood there apologising and speaking to everyone. As the last person got off, he came up the airbridge to speak to the passangers waiting to load. All in all a great Aer Lingus captain andby keeping everyone informed im sure avoided a lot of agro.

[MrBunker]

But oh my goodness, the guitar playing skipper. Ouch.

[ChristiaanJ]

But oh my goodness, the guitar playing skipper. Ouch.But the passengers applauded it. Says a lot about the pax too, I admit, but maybe with THAT kind of pax it WAS good PR ?
Imagine that on a RyanAir flight, with the skipper playing "God Save The Queen" (or near equivalent).
He'd probably be brained with his own guitar.

[creamegg]

When I flew to lapland with first choice at christmas (from Manchester) the pilot and co pilot were fab, they really seemed to take an interest in their passengers and they explained the different things that were happening to the aircraft and reassured passengers about the unexpected things etc...

then at the end of the flight they came out and spoke to us all and made a real effort to answer any questions anyone had and were just really really nice guys.

Well done them :D

[Perwazee]

I agree. Definitely a nice touch. Others who don't, I feel a hint of 'arrogance'!

[Dream Land]

All in all a great Aer Lingus captain andby keeping everyone informed im sure avoided a lot of agro. So the captain does his job and now he's great, give me a break. :mad:

[Final 3 Greens]

be concise but not short, relaxed but never be flippant

Spot on view :ok:

One hint for FD - please don't try and justify why the flight is late, since there is no excuse that can change history, what's more important is to advise on the revised ETA and any anciliary info (e.g. special provisions.)

FTG (frequent traveller in business class 100-110 sectors per year)

[ithinkso]

you got it in three.

nothing worse than listening to a self important tosser. what time are we leaving and what time are we getting there. not really interested in the scintillating setting sun, the placid poolike pacific etc.

self important tosser.

[ftallarico]

First,
I have a great respect for the cabin crew and flight deck crew that are doing their jobs. We as passengers basically give up much of our freedom when we step onto the aircraft and put our lives in the hands of these crew.
As I leave an aircraft, I'm sure to thank the crew that I pass on my way out. If the flight deck crew is standing outside of the flight deck, I am sure to make eye contact and to thank them and wish them a good day.
It shows the respect that I have for the profession and for them getting me safely to my destination. When a crew member can show me the same respect by addressing me face to face, I appreciate that. I'm not saying I want a guitar medley or a stand up comic routine, but I would certainly appreciate the effort and respect shown by anyone that can get out of the front seat and address me personally.
I'm amazed that anyone in your profession would pass judgment or show animosity towards another professional that is trying to provide outstanding customer service.
On the other topic - anyone that makes a comment like this really should not even be in a position that requires responsibility for the lives of the general public, hopefully this person is not in such a position:
"....but only manages to re-affirm my distrust of homosexuals."

[Ignition Override]

FewCloudy:

The expression "self-loading freight" is how some airlines' so-called 'leadership', to use the term very loosely, view their passengers.

Partly due to the perishable commodity concept, some US companies view their passengers as a commodity.
Therefore, "self-loading freight", from their viewpoint, is quite valid and accurate.

If some of these companies were operated under the actual leadership of aviation professionals (and some are not) this would not be the situation.
Pocketing an extra $20,000,000 worth of free corporate stock :Edoes not equate to leadership by example or 'people skills'. There are often no connections between these two areas.
It still surprises me that many elements of the general media are often not nearly bright enough to figure this out by themselves, or simply lack the motivation without a plausible 'story'.

[expediteoff]

Nice to see the flight deck comparing their role to "train and bus drivers" - an acknowledgement perhaps to the job in the twenty first century?

[Dogma]

expediteoff - you wind up merchant!;)

I find the job a real challenge, wrestling the "Sky Pig" onto various Greek and Turkish airports. We are the "hardest working Pilots in Showbiz":{

[Banzai Eagle]

Cpt Pablo Mason MYT
PA Legend - He is that great Captain

[Desk-pilot]

I too travelled on a delayed flight out of GLA a couple of weeks ago and as a Flybe pilot was bowled over by the utter excellence and professionalism displayed by the BA Flight Deck crew that evening. The schedule had gone to hell because of the wx and the First Officer came out to the gate before boarding to explain that we had an awful slot time but he would like to get us all on board anyway in order to take advantage of any slot improvement, then the Captain did a superb welcome on baord/apologies PA and throughout the flight they went the extra mile to keep us appraised of our progress including informing us that we were being further delayed arriving on stand due to the absence of ground staff at LHR.

As a fellow pilot for a rival airline I take my hat off to the BA crew that night - you couldn't have given a better service - it was superb and I have to say further reinforced my view that there are airlines and there is BA and they represent everything that the rest of us should be aspiring to. If there's a finer airline I haven't flown it...

To Fly To Serve at its very best gentlemen.

Desk-pilot

[alfaman]

Just a little hint from ATCO SLF: spending lots of time airborne this year, variety of opertors all struggling to cope with LHR, but on a BA fllight earlier in the year, lots of bitchy pops at ATC, BAA & T4 from the flightdeck - some or all of which may be truth or fiction, whichever. As said above, excuses don't change history, but they may p!55 off the people in the back who may know more about it than you think...if you slag my company & colleagues off in public, don't be surprised if you don't get a warm smile as I pass you on the way out...your lot ain't perfect...

[Matrix2055]

Sticking to the topic, I think it’s a great idea for a captain or F/O to address passengers when there is a delay. I do not see anything wrong with that. If I pay money for the trip and I’m getting disservice (delay in this case), I would prefer at least knowing the reason why. And who is better to do that than somebody directly involved. Flight attendants just don’t cramp it.
If everything goes on schedule, nobody from the flight deck would have time to show up, and nobody expects them to do so. They got check lists to go through, ATIS, clearances and so on (hands full).
Upon arriving to the destination, if time permits, it’s nice to see who flew the airplane. And knowing that most pilots are getting underpaid, all you can do as a passenger is thank them for the good job that they do.
Also on that note, I like the way United has there radio working. Any passenger can tune in and hear the frequency that pilots tuned in to. For me personally that option settles down many questions. I’m not sure if any other airlines have that.

[Slats One]

If this post carries on it won't just be certain -over chatty captains who'll be needing cognitve behavioural therapy to get over the forensic analysis, will it?

Can't we all just agree that everyone does it differently, and some just do it there own sweet way?

[Basil]

Yes, and one can try too hard. Company policy was multi lingual cabin address from flight deck.
Party of japanese tourists on board.

Basil: "おはよう (Ohio gozaimas - good morning) etc etc."
Stewardess: "Party leader would like to visit flight deck."
Basil: "OK." (Thinks 'prob to congratulate Bas on spoken Jap')
PL: "We not fry tree hunred kirometer hour?"
Basil: "No, we'd fall out of sky - speed about 1000 kph."
PL: "Ah goot, becausa you say 'tree hunred kirometer hour'."
Basil: "Oh." (Thinks 'wonder what else I said' - no reports of panic from cabin so must have been reasonably OK)
FO: Thinks 'Silly old codger - knew he'd stuff up!'
Basil: :O

[scruggs]

This guy seems like a great fella too:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB118826634834410559.html?mod=travel_left_column_hs

S.

[JustAnothrWindScreen]

I would usually stand at the door and make a PA when the flight was going to be canceled due to a mechanical and explain the reason. I did this because I was there anyway talking with the mechanics and the agents really were not that up to speed on the precise reason and the technical explanation of why we could not go.

If we were going to be delayed for quite some time, I would also walk back to first class and explain to the customers that we were going to be late, what the reason was, and what I expected to be our new departure time. I would then make a PA to the aircraft. Simply customer service.

[one four sick]

JustAnothrWindScreen

So what???
If you think that's your job then do it. I don't remotely think like you.
I disagree with you, but you're the one that seems to need the therapy!
You have a seat in the house designated FO or Captain. That's where you belong, that's where you "perform" your duties and that's where you speak to the passengers from.
Any deviation from there is beyond your training!

[Ancient Mariner]

Seen from my SLF point of view JustAnothrWindScreen would be The Captain. One four sick? Just another driver.
Per

[lexxie747]

my wife thinks i am a great captain, does that count?

[one four sick]

Ancient Mariner

If that's your criteria for The Captain, then good luck to you.
We hope you get there safely as he probably looks good, clean, nice hat and very super-manly!
The fact that he ponces around in a shiny sexy uniform is also a good reason to believe he's The Captain.
I say The Captain is the one that can talk to his passengers (all of them at once and not to just a few at the time), from his assigned and 'trained for' position on the aircraft. He tells it like it is and that's the end of his show!
Any other sad theatrics are not part of the job or the training we get. I believe I can do a PA as good as anyone and I don't feel the need to hug my passengers!
Yuk.

[JustAnothrWindScreen]

One four sick bleated:
If that's your criteria for The Captain, then good luck to you.
We hope you get there safely as he probably looks good, clean, nice hat and very super-manly!
The fact that he ponces around in a shiny sexy uniform is also a good reason to believe he's The Captain.
Yuk.


Super-manly huh. I am really laughing at this. Actually I earned MY bones in the skies of North Viet Nam in single seat single engine fighters. I have been retired quite a few years now. For me the job was always about the job, not the uniform, not in "your terms" super-manly, and "ponces around." I suppose if "you" were only trained to hide in the cockpit and do what "you" were trained to do then you are at your limit. So be it. I always looked at the job as flying customers not in flying airplanes. Going from point A to point B is really to my point of view boring. If going from point A to point B is all you have ever done or been "trained to do" I feel sorry for you.

I suppose I am a dinosaur in how I look at things, but if you are any indication of the "New Breed" of airline pilot, why not just go drive a bus. But only if you were "trained" to just sit in that bus seat.

[Planter]

Hey Windscreen,
What's your point?
One Four Sick's sarcasm got you straight in the belly.
You're responding to sarcasm???
Back to your cheesy little war.
I'm with One Four Sick on this.
P :ugh:

[corsair]

Wow it's amazing how a perfectly reasonable description by Windscreen of what he did when he was a Captain should provoke a way over the top attack by onefoursick and then planter. You guys really need to calm down. The venom you display is astonishing considering the subject matter.

It's quite easy to see, who really needs therapy:)

[Ashling]

Well said corsair