Define Cross Country

[Duchess_Driver]

Can't seem to lay my hands on the official definition of cross country in terms of "Nav".

Can some kind soul give me chapter and verse!

DD

[Curtis E Carr]

From ANO Sch 8:

“Cross-country flight” means any flight during the course of which the aircraft is more than 3 nautical miles from the aerodrome of departure.

[FlyingForFun]

What country's license is this in relations to?

Curtis is correct if you're talking about JAR. If you're talking about anywhere else in the world he's probably not. For example, I think the FAA define x-country as 50nm?

FFF
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[Duchess_Driver]

Thanks - somehow thought it was five!

JAA - and I was just about to ask about FAA...but that sort of ties in with the CPL resitriction on FAA if you don't hold an IR.

[timzsta]

We recently updated our Flying Order book at my club. We couldn't find where in the ANO the 3nm cross country stipulation was. My understanding is that it has been replaced by a vague turn " in the vicinity of the aerodrome" - which you could argue is inside the ATZ I suppose. Which would mean if student was extended downwind flight would be illegal.

All a tad of a grey area I think. Bit like supervision of FI(R). The ANO talks about AFI's which is different from FI(R).

[FlyingForFun]

We recently updated our Flying Order book at my club. We couldn't find where in the ANO the 3nm cross country stipulation wasTry the ANO, Schedule 8, Part B, Paragraph 3:For the purposes of this Schedule: ..... “Cross-country flight” means any flight during the course of which the aircraft is more than 3 nautical miles from the aerodrome of departure.
That's as per the latest version available on the CAA's website (http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP393.PDF), dated 30 March 2007.

FFF
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[Oktas8]

While the above answers refer to the UK...
Doesn't JAR-FCL say something about "cross country" being a flight from one place to another conducted according to recognisable navigation technique?

[BEagle]

I read somewhere recently that the UK CAA is wise to this. Where any licence application requirement refers to 'cross-country', time they now expect to see proper navigation exercise time, not just swanning about more than 3 nm from the aerodrome.

Not sure how that would stand up in a court of law if put to the test though......

[BillieBob]

The ANO definition of cross-country as being any flight where the aircraft is more than 3 miles from the aerodrome of departure is contained in Schedule 8 of the Order and is preceded by the words "For the purposes of this schedule" (i.e. the definition is not valid in any other context). In the context of JAA licensing requirements, the only definition of cross-country is contained in Amendment 7 to JAR-FCL 1.001 and reads "A flight between a point of departure and a point of arrival following a pre–planned route using standard navigation procedures."

Since the UK has yet to implement Amendment 6 to JAR-FCL 1, let alone amendment 7, it is questionable whether this definition may yet be used but it surely will in due course.

[timzsta]

Excellent thanks for that - amendment to FOB very shortly. Deputy CFI most pleased.

[Duchess_Driver]

So if the student has flown more than 3 miles from the aerodrome (at a prior school) then a FI(R) could send him further on further solo nav's?

Would seem to sum it up.

[athonite]

whether 5 or 3nm for some airfields/clubs this must surely include circuits!

[bfisk]

What, 3nm? Is this for laughs? Cool to log cross country time every time you're on a four mile final...

FAA defines cross country, for the purposes of aeronautical experience required for most certificates and ratings, to be flights more than 50nm straight-line, with a landing at an airport other than the departure airport.

[foxmoth]

IMHO that makes the FAA definition rubbish in the reverse sense - you fly four hours on a photographic trip visiting places up to 200 miles from base but if you do not land somewhere other than your starting field it is then NOT x country - almost as daft.:rolleyes:

[BillieBob]

What, 3nm? Is this for laughs?No, it just shows that you have not read the thread properly (or at all). The 3nm definition of 'cross-country' relates only to what a newly qualified instructor may authorise and has nothing at all to do with what a pilot enters in his logbook.

[Dysonsphere]

Intresting at WW we were allowed around the reporting points (all more than 3 miles out) and it was classed as local not cross country as it helped you learn the local area and how to rejoin the circuit and all on low hours solo.

[NH2390]

In FAA land, the cross country time requirements for the ATP certificate do not require a landing at a point other than the point of departure.

[C172-Heavy]

************************************
14 CFR 61.1:

3) Cross-country time means—

(i) Except as provided in paragraphs (b)(3)(ii) through (b)(3)(vi) of this section, time acquired during flight—
(A) Conducted by a person who holds a pilot certificate;
(B) Conducted in an aircraft;
(C) That includes a landing at a point other than the point of departure; and
(D) That involves the use of dead reckoning, pilotage, electronic navigation aids, radio aids, or other navigation systems to navigate to the landing point.

(ii) For the purpose of meeting the aeronautical experience requirements (except for a rotorcraft category rating), for a private pilot certificate (except for a powered parachute category rating), a commercial pilot certificate, or an instrument rating, or for the purpose of exercising recreational pilot privileges (except in a rotorcraft) under §61.101 (c), time acquired during a flight—
(A) Conducted in an appropriate aircraft;
(B) That includes a point of landing that was at least a straight-line distance of more than 50 nautical miles from the original point of departure; and
(C) That involves the use of dead reckoning, pilotage, electronic navigation aids, radio aids, or other navigation systems to navigate to the landing point.

(vi) For the purpose of meeting the aeronautical experience requirements for an airline transport pilot certificate (except with a rotorcraft category rating), time acquired during a flight—
(A) Conducted in an appropriate aircraft;
(B) That is at least a straight-line distance of more than 50 nautical miles from the original point of departure; and
(C) That involves the use of dead reckoning, pilotage, electronic navigation aids, radio aids, or other navigation systems.
******************************************8

So, you see it gets even more confusing. Some people have several X-country columns in their logbooks to fullfill different requirements!