Why are people so unkind to Jet*?

[VH-Cheer Up]

In Fairfax papers (The AGE, SMH) blogs section (http://blogs.smh.com.au/mashup/archives//014435.html?page=fullpage#comments)there's a bunch of whingeing Winnie's complaining they could get through to the website for their $1 around the world air fares.

I particularly enjoyed this comment:

I really like the Jetstar service, it suits me. But, then again, I enjoy using an electric cattle-prod on myself, poking my eyes out with a red-hot poker, and visiting the Nova cinema in Carlton.
Posted by: One-eyed Phil on July 11, 2007 3:39 PM

Why are people so unkind?

VH-CU

[roamingwolf]

yeah vh-cu for a buck ticket most people would even go to a kamahl concert.

as for onestar , it's a mystery to me too:E:E:E

[Skystar320]

Wish these people (customers) would shut up bitching about Jet*, you get what you paid for if you don’t like it pi** off

[lowerlobe]

Skystar320......."Wish these people (customers) would shut up bitching about Jet*, you get what you paid for if you don’t like it pi** off"...

With an attitude to customers like that it's no wonder people complain about J*.

[Jawz]

It is because the Australian Public is extremely unintelligent.

LCC's work in Europe because people are smart enough to now that they are paying for a bus service from A to B.

Australia had Full service airlines servicing the country from the beginnings of ANA/QF etc until the beginning of this millennium.

THE PUBLIC DO NOT UNDERSTAND THE CONCEPT OF LCC !! (and even some pilots)

Could be a good Idea for the Jet* :rolleyes:suits to maybe educate our uneducated antipodean convict friends ;)

[Skystar320]

Ultimate, you have choosen to fly Jet* because they are cheap? Right? Correct?

Just wait till Tiger comes in and wait for all the abuse

[lowerlobe]

Skystar320.....Who is ultimate?

Jawz....So the European public is more intelligent than the Australian public?

Looking back at the last 90 or so years of European history I beg to differ.

[VH-Cheer Up]

That's the greatest thing about having the lowest price. You're the price leader until... someone else comes in with a lower price...

Great marketing, but clearly there is a market for cheap flights.

Hey, perhaps THAT's the real reason behind strengthening the flight deck doors - so the chavs who love their LCC travel can't get in.

[aulglarse]

waiting for the election...we'll have another "recession we had to have" and watch as we fill these A320's with more suits and the like!
Running a business is about opportunities-just as Jawz put it about educating the bus traveller into an air passenger.
People are realising how simple it is to save money whether it be an 1 or 3 hr trip. Remember QF charging $1200 return SYD-PER? or one way to SYD-BNE for $350.00... those days are over.
As you put it VH-smart marketing=making it cheap and simple is very appealing to the most naieve traveller....

[VH-Cheer Up]

Yes, I hope I haven't been misunderstood. I don't have a problem wih LCCs, just because I don't want to travel on them doesn't mean I don't think they have a place in the market.

It's just that price as a sole differentiator is always a tenuous marketing platform. Hence the term "price spiral".

And yes, I remember the days of full pricing. I used to cross the Nullarbor every four weeks for five years at a four-figure ticket price. There was no other way. Until Compass 1, etc...

But LCC's also 'keep the bastards honest' - well, about pricing, at least. And their entry into the market ahs forced some economies into the supply chain, and created some new business opportunities along the way.

What seems funny to me though is that some punters front up for their super-deep discounted ticket trips and honestly expect the silver-platter service of the Clipper air travel days. They want to fly to the Gold Coast for the price of a couple of hours wages and expect the same service people used to work for six months to purchase.

These people urgently need to get a life.

"You pays yer money, and you takes yer choice". Live with it.

VH-CU

[ScottyDoo]

With an attitude to customers like that it's no wonder people complain about J*.

He can't afford a new attitude because he's still paying off his endorsement. What's your excuse??? :p

Just wait till Tiger comes in and wait for all the abuse

Yep, not sure which will be more fun: slagging off the Year 10 graduates at Jester or the guys working for the 'munchers' from up north...

Hey, it's a slow week..... :p

[lowerlobe]

He can't afford a new attitude because he's still paying off his endorsement. What's your excuse???

OH thats rich...(no pun intended)....so Scotty doo how much was this life threatening debt?

[Mud Skipper]

To say you make your choice is often not true and simplistic.

The travelling public did not have much choice when services to the Gold and Sunshine Coast, Hobart and Launceston were almost exclusively handed to Jetstar.
Many people still wanted the full service product but are forced on to the LCC if they wish to fly.
It's only natural then that they are not happy with an inferior product.

[lowerlobe]

Not to mention the business market who want and are willing to pay for something better than economy in those ports...

Hey but they are only customers in the world according to Darth

[Fliegenmong]

"Why are people so unkind to J*?"

........because it's fun :O

[resboy]

Contention: If so many people want the full service why do the QF 738s into HBA and OOL struggle to get a decent load for most of the year? Discuss.

The reality for these ports is, yes some people do want the QF trimmings (a cookie and IFE with Deborah Hutton) however never enough to sustain the service. The likes of JQ, and lets not forget DJ who until recently also championed themselves on price (until undergoing their "new world" revolution), have grown the market into places like OOL bringing all the first timers and bus travellers into the air, whether we like it or not. Furthermore all the once-every-two-years families are now jetting off annually for their holiday, if not more often with the lower fares. It is these folk, a vastly larger population than the people demanding full-service into "leisure" ports, who drive the market for JQ to a lesser extent DJ.

If there was money to be made offering full service into these ports you would have expected Tiger to enter the Aussie market offering exactly that. Yet we see TT going straight for the punters pocket. Whether we like it or not the most lucrative airline market in Oz at present is the domain of LCCs.

And before people take to Jetstar with an axe for the umpteenth time about the Qantas/Jetstar changover in port XYZ remember the key reason why this even happened in the first place. QANTAS wanted to make MORE money. So take it back a notch on the smartarse jibes, refrain from taking out your frustrations on the hardworking staff at JQ. Many are proud of the product we offer (it may not suit you personally, but what JQ offers is great for many people) and although our airline is young many of us are not johnny-come-latelies to the industry. We come from QF Mainline, Gulf, Ansett, Rex, Emirates, United, Kendell, BA, Qantaslink/Impulse (from which we were born) the list goes on. So you may believe it or not, but many of us understand the service you once got into OOL, HBA, HTI, heck some of us used to be the ones offering it to you!

But the landscape has changed by no less than a bit of marketing. Qantas
saw an opportunity for an LCC and if it wasn't QF to do it someone else would be flying a fleet of 24 narrow bodies (with 9+ to come) chockers around the country. As employees we have adapted to evolve with the industry. There was/is no choice. Some consumers it seems are still struggling to do so.

To perhaps expand on Skystar320s original and brief comment. Yes, you do get what you pay for. And that shouldn't be a bad thing! Don't come on Jetstar, Virgin or Tiger expecting all the trimmings that were once par for the course and you won't be dissappointed. You will be taken from A to B, safely. We will give you a smile, and you can buy a cookie to kill the hunger pains. Its not that bad!

End of rant. :ok:

PS - Ooops and sorry for wedging myself so seriously in the middle of too funny posts :}:}:p:p

[Kiwiconehead]

........because it's fun

It's the red (orange) haired fat kid with freckles in the playground that everyone likes to rag on - unfortunately that kid will probably grow up to be some super computer nerd and make a billion dollars, buy all our companies and sack us all.

Moral of the story - be nice to the weird kids.

[arkmark]

Here's the thing - you simply don't always get a cheaper fare with a low cost carrier.

Try walking up to a jet star counter in the morning and asking how much it will cost for a ticket in the afternoon. Chances are it will be dearer than the Qantas ticket.

In most cases the so called LCC tickets are similar prices to QF unless you want to book in advance and haggle over a few bucks.

So when for example a PAX is forced to pay for a real air fare and are treated like crap, then they are right to complain.

[UNOME]

Jawzy

You sound an awful lot like that "dashing and svelte" Brommy DFO from Tiger Singapore....:E

[The Kavorka]

Resboy,

Top post......

LCC are the way of the future in aus, all reasonably short sectors.

I believe people would much rather spend their money at their holiday destination rather than their airfare.

Lets face it, if you go on our full service airline you get :mad: all anyway (a stinkin packet of cheese things and a drink) BIG DEAL........

I believe there is a place for full service (trunk routes) and the rest will be LCC's, like it or not...

People in general will always vote with their pockets!!!!!!! and in this day and age with big mortages, high fuel prices and an ever increasing cost of living holidays are a luxury.

[VH-Cheer Up]

I believe people would much rather spend their money at their holiday destination rather than their airfare.

Yup, let's totally ignore the non-holiday destination traveller, after all, there's hardly anyone in the Qantas Club in Sydney on a Friday evening any more. Sometimes, I heard a guy say, you can even get a seat in there. For $400 a year or whatever it costs these days.

[peuce]

Well, I'll be different .... I just did a return to HNL on Jetstar ... admittedly in Star Class ... and I have no complaints.

Friendly staff. On time. Comfortable trip. Edible food. No frights.

I'd do it again, although with QF starting up Premium Economy, there will be some competition for my flying dollar now.

[Jawz]

UNOME

Thank you for such a flattering remark. UDONOME !!:O

[resboy]

Here's the thing - you simply don't always get a cheaper fare with a low cost carrier.

Try walking up to a jet star counter in the morning and asking how much it will cost for a ticket in the afternoon. Chances are it will be dearer than the Qantas ticket.

Possibly true, and it always pays to shop around, but I think you'll find thats a bit of a steep generalisation. Furthermore you will never see any LCC offering every seat at rock bottom discounts. It'd fall over in a week. The nature of airline economics is there needs to be the higher fares on board to compensate for the lower ones. This applies to an LCC as much as any full-service carrier.

And just as an example for this coming Monday at similar times:

MEL-HBA: JQ $79 @ 0645, QF $222 @ 0835
SYD-CNS: JQ $299 @ 0705, QF $332 @ 0805
OOL-SYD: JQ $159 @ 1200, QF $391 @ 1215
NTL-BNE: JQ $89 @ 1705, QF $189 @ 1615

At the end of the day its all marketing. By spinning off JQ, QF has been able to successfully increase its yield by pitching itself as the sole full service carrier in the country, and charging accordingly. For QF the cream, jam and whole bloody scone is the Cityflier operation. This leaves JQ to make a buck out of the rest, in markets that QF arguably didn't ever make a profit in.

And on the club ...
QF Club numbers shouldn't really change anyway. Members can still (and do, let me assure you) use it when flying JQ. Maybe it's standing room only over at T2 :} ... or even worse they're all in "The Lounge" :eek:

[arkmark]

I wanted to go to ADL tomorrow, so sitting in the cafe eating breakfast I just checked flights with Jet Star and Qantas tomorrow.
QF $186.00, Jet Star $279.00, and QF have NO BUSINESS SEATS, and most flights fully booked. As QF has more capacity to ADL than it's bastard son, what does this tell you about the market place ?
That's right - people do prefer quality, and are happy to pay for it.
I Booked Qantas.
Unkind to Jet Star - Yup I sure am I simply won't fly with them, or any other so called low cost carrier - especially at the price of a full safety :eek: airline ticket.

[peuce]

Maybe Jetstar had only dearer seats available because the cheaper ones were so popular that they sold out !

You can rant and rave about Jetstar , or any other LCC for that matter, as much as you like but the only determinant will be the flying public. If they are happy to buy the cheap seats, they will. When the cheap seats are gone and the price of the seats left is similar to QF's, they again have another choice to make. If they all rush to QF, then the LCC will have to change it's pricing/seating structure to counter that ... and so on and so forth ...

Let the market, including you, decide!

P.S. Have you ever thought that there may be other reasons (than price) that customers choose a LCC over QF?

[DTVOne]

In Fairfax papers (The AGE, SMH) blogs section (http://blogs.smh.com.au/mashup/archives//014435.html?page=fullpage#comments)there's a bunch of whingeing Winnie's complaining they could get through to the website for their $1 around the world air fares.

Surely these whingeing Winnie's should realise its competitive for these seats, its a dog eat dog, and most people will miss out.

[Bula]

A full safety airline ticket.......... you twit

[Tagneah]

Bula,
You just beat me to it!
Now... anyone for Golf in Bangkok?
Runway, Stopway, Clearway, Fairway?

[The Kavorka]

Nice One................:ok::ok::ok:

[max autobrakes]

Question,
what happens when the Legacy Carrier through extensive cost cutting gets it's operating costs down to what the LCC's have achieved?
Don't forget there is a floor to how much you can cut your costs!
A classic pincer move, what happens then?:ooh:

[blow.n.gasket]

Everyone then becomes as cynical as you?:ooh:

[pakeha-boy]

QUOTE JAWZ...It is because the Australian Public is extremely unintelligent


jawz...I like you:}:D:E

[roamingwolf]

yeah right mate just like the highly intelligent kiwi or pom....:yuk:

[arkmark]

Guys,

I am the travelling public - haven't touched an aircraft for any reason than to consume it's services for a long time now.
I choose not to fly LCC's because I don't like the product.
I particularly don't like Jet Star's product. I think it's cheap and mean.
Call me a twit for calling a low cost carrier less safe than a full cost carrier - I doubt it.
Q. What is the purpose of a LCC? A. To push new frontiers in cost reduction wherever possible with a view to generating more proffit from extreme levels of low yield turnover Q. Is one of the new frontiers maintenance? A. Every cost centre including staff, training, and maintenance Q. How far can the cost cutting go? A. As far as the safety regulator and it's legislation will allow it to go. Q. What happens if the regulator or it's reg's fail ??????????

I don't recall the last time that Qantas was investigated by CASA for having poor culture within it's maintenance department. I do recall the last time it happened to a low cost carrier.

Better safety on a more mature, full service, higher cost airline YOU BET!!
I will think of you guys from the Qantas club lounge today as I eat my can of sardines for breakfast.

[Dixondik]

I don't recall the last time that Qantas was investigated by CASA for having poor culture within it's maintenance department. I do recall the last time it happened to a low cost carrier.

Perhaps you may want to watch Today Tonight's rant on QF maintenance tomorrow night.

They serving old decrepid fish for breaky at the lounge?

[pakeha-boy]

wolf mate...just taking the piss,and getting a bite ...no malice involved...try not to take it personal....PB

[Bula]

Point still stands......

[blow.n.gasket]

What point would that be BULA.
JetStar is cheaper because?

[cunninglinguist]

Another well informed, well thought out post from SLF.
Hey, moderators, I thought this was Pprune, how bout you start asking for some proof of the second P in Pprune :suspect:

Yep, Ansett and Qf have never had CASA breathing down their necks.

[Condition lever]

arkmark -I am led to believe Garuda is a full service airline (at least according to EWL)
Perhaps you could fly with them (please!!!)

[arkmark]

I did fly Garuda last year - because the alternative was an LCC.

I was satisfied with Garuda business class as it offered a fair product at a more than fair price.

Of course I was nervous at the potential safety of the airline, but the price and availability were commensurate to that risk.

This is why people are so unkind to Jet Star - they clainm to be a low cost carrier, but for most products they aren't and indeed they are often more expensive than a full service airline.

So what is low cost about Jet Star? It's their expenidture, not their earnings.

Jetstar V Garuda rated for bang for buck -- I would fly Garuda with trepidation but I just won't fly Jet Star. How unkind...........

[Bula]

I think that some people on this forum just prove how much they want something for nothing. It proves how stubborn views with incorrect perceptions about reasonablity from the ill informed is the exact reason why J* does get a very hard time.

It is plainly all about choice. This will continue to change and evolve as time goes by and new carrier come onto the market. Unfortunatly while the capacity isn't there J* will suffer the same teething problems as VB did.

Aarkmark I'm completely confused about what point you are trying to make
"I'm happy with Garuda though I do have concerns about safety...."
"Of course I was nervous at the potential safety of the airline, but the price and availability were commensurate to that risk."

2 questions.. please if you will.

1. So you think a full fare carrier is safer? Even in light of the fact that Garuda have one of the poorest safety records in South East Asia.

2. So you feel that every seat and every ticket should be at fares that QANTAS, J* and VB offer when they are on sale to consitute a fair fare for a LCC?

[rammel]

I've flown Jetstar Intl to BKK in Starclass using staff travel, came back QF J cls also on staff travel. The flight had about 60-80 avail in ecy and about 25 avail in Starclass.

Starclass was ok, but nothing flash. It appears to be the same food and drink as ecy, just served differently (I could be wrong about this). I don't think that you can compare Starclass to be equivalent to Business Class, it is more a Premium Ecy.

Coming back on QF J cls the difference is noticable, this is not comparable to Premium Ecy like Starclass.

The service on both was good and couldn't complain about anything from QF or JQ.

I did look on the Jetstar website for prices, as I was curious about their fare costs. The fares I saw to BKK, were about the same as package deals you can get at Flight Centre and the packages include 3-4 nights accomodation. This is with Thai, where you don't need to add in costs of meals and the like.

In my opinion there is better value than Jetstar out there, and Starclass is not worth the extra cost (on a commercial fare). I have heard that sometimes you can purchase an upgrade on the day for an extra $200 or so. If you have bought the cheapest fare, this could be the cheapest way to get a Starclass seat.

[arkmark]

Hi Bulla,

As I wrote my last post I was trying not to be confusing. I will attempt to explain now.

I won't fly Jet star because I simply don't like it. It has taken airline customer service, and working conditions for it's staff to new lows in Australian aviation. It has cut safety by replacing qualified and experienced staff where ever it can with cheaper options. These cuts have been far more radical than those made by any other AUS airline. For these reasons I question the airline's true safety performance. I dislike their customer lack of service model, and so make the personal choice that I do not want to consume their product. Lastly, each time I compare (which isn't often) the equivalent Jet Star flights to other airlines, I find their prices the same or more expensive, so my point is WHY PAY MORE FOR LESS ?????

I chose to fly Garuda to Indonesia because it offered a true business class. As an added bonus the true business class was offered at a reasonable price. Further, no other airline at the time offered flights other than by Singapore to Bali on business class. My experience with Garuda business class was actually excellent and in my opinion, excellent value for money.

Whilst I have safety concerns for both Jet Star and Garuda, the latter offers superior customer service, at reasonable prices, and so who would I prefer to fly with - the answer is Garuda all day long.

[flyingins]

I often open the flight-deck door after arriving at the gate so that I can say goodbye to our customers as they disembark.

On one occasion recently, a passenger stopped to ask the most curious question;

"Why did you wait so long to put the wheels down?" He went on to explain that he'd played many, many flight simulator games and that experience granted him the right to demand from me the truth. So, in faux-disbelief, I told him;

"I put the gear down at 2000 feet, at around 7 miles from the runway, sir."

"Just as I thought!" he proudly exclaimed. "Expect to hear from your manager. I'll be reporting your reckless attitude towards flying to the authorities!"

The point I wish to make is this: arkmark - you, like my story's protagonist, are an idiot. You freely admit to not being technically qualified in any area of the aviation industry and yet you have no qualms rabbitting on about one of the field's most technically involved, scrutinised and monitored facets; Safety.

By all means, don't fly Jetstar if you don't like them. That's good enough reason without trying to parlay your impressions of commercial air travel (derived, no doubt, from the crash sequence in "Lost" - thanks Channel 7) into a coherent argument.

P.S - Luckily, arkmark, business class is at the front of those wonderful Garuda aeroplanes you wax-so-lyrically about. Their jets always fly backwards into hills, so you should be safe! :ugh:

[ratpoison]

"I put the gear down at 2000 feet, at around 7 miles from the runway, sir."
Maybe next time you should display some backbone and when your professional integrity is questioned, reply with "well I suggest you stick to your computer games F***wit."

[Keith Myath]

ratpoison

reply with " well I suggest you stick to your computer games F***WIT !!


Maybe you should display some professional integrity.

[arkmark]

Dear Fliggins,

I am afraid it is you my friend who is the idiot. You make gross assumptions and I certainly you don't do this when flying aircraft.

Actually by being one of the pilot types who likes to greet his humble passengers you sound very ego driven to me.

I, my friend, prior to starting my own very successful business that now employs a lot of people, was in fact an airline employed supervising LAME in charge of a team of people who were directly respoinsible for your safety in the air, every day. I ran the team with safety for everyone as a primary concern.

You are too ignorant to read between the lines, study my language and read my posts to realise that I have far more knowledge of your industry than you yourself have.

The odds are that I was there longer than you ever will be. Even better, I made myself the ability to move on.

Because of my industry experience, my personal observations during that time, and now as a PAX who hasn't touched an aeroplane for quite some time other than to consume it's services, who travells for business regularly, I feel I have quite a lot of insight to offer as to why myself and most people who I know in business choose not to fly Jet Star.

You are too emotional to not understand that there is often well thought out rationale behind consumers choices then either you don't apply that in your own life or you are simply not capable of intraspection.

Tell me - is Jet Star your first airline job ? It sure sounds like it !!!!!!

[Bula]

Sorry Aarmark,

to say jetstar is as unsafe as Garuda is just a shot of how ill informed you are about safety.

To say they hire the "cheaper crews" is a sign of ignorance as to how aviation works.

To quote Fare type and its comparison to safety shows that you have never dealt with the regulator, nor have you ever consulted an aviation related risk/hazard analysis. As someone with so much experience this is disconcerting. It sounds like a very old train of though. And if you have been around for so long you know better about how it all works.

Your comments are crude, presumptuous and ill informed.

You dont like the product.. thats fine as its not everyone cup of tea. Enjoy Garuda

[Feather #3]

Anyone gots the inside word on the DRW-CNS-CNS-BNE saga which took place recently [with a side trip to TVL for some]??:confused:
Not a bad days work for a direct DRW-BNE service.
AND they've just received an award in the UK for "operational management"!
G'day ;)

[arkmark]

Hi Bulla,

I sure don't like the product, as I have made clear, and yes I will enjoy Garuda, and Qantas, and Singapore, and Emirates, and any other carrier who I choose for myself and my staff.

Your assumptions are also incorrect, but at least your polite.

[The Kavorka]

Arkmark,

You are a :mad: head...........that's about all I need to say!!

[flyingins]

Excellent response, arkmark. Allow me to dissect your post (this'll be fun!);

"I, my friend, prior to starting my own very successful business that now employs a lot of people". Congratulations. Which one of us has the bigger ego?

"(I) was in fact an airline employed supervising LAME in charge of a team of people who were directly respoinsible for your safety in the air, every day. I ran the team with safety for everyone as a primary concern." Then you should know better, shouldn't you?

"The odds are that I was there longer than you ever will be. Even better, I made myself the ability to move on." To the first part of your sentence, I doubt it. To the second part of it - why is this relevant? I'm fully aware that there is a world full of opportunities outside of aviation. I'm quite happy in my chosen profession, however and have no desire to leave.


"You are too ignorant to read between the lines, study my language and read my posts to realise that I have far more knowledge of your industry than you yourself have." Ignorant is a name I've not often been called. The closest you have ever come to advertising your aviation credentials was when you stated; "(I)haven't touched an aircraft for any reason than to consume it's services for a long time now". Forgive me for not deducing that you were at one time a LAME. Perhaps you should work on your communication skills.

Tell me - is Jet Star your first airline job ? It sure sounds like it !!!!!! No. It's not.

Ratpoison;
My "backbone" was never in question. Actually, it was harder for me to resist the urge to call this particular gentleman names and instead display a modicum of restraint.

[cunninglinguist]

calling a passenger a fwit, now theres a good idea.

Arkmark, you mention ego, re-read your post, if thats not ego driven I dont know what is , Quote:

I, my friend, prior to starting my own very successful business that now employs a lot of people, was in fact an airline employed supervising LAME in charge of a team of people who were directly respoinsible for your safety in the air, every day. I ran the team with safety for everyone as a primary concern.

to realise that I have far more knowledge of your industry than you yourself have.

The odds are that I was there longer than you ever will be. Even better, I made myself the ability to move on.


You keep flying garuda, how many hull losses will be enough to sway you? they are at 10 and counting?

[mrpaxing]

also had the experience flying garuda business class. a very substandard product. the beer was warm, so was the champagne and the wine was comparable to aussie cask (some american label on it). as breakfast out of oz we had a half frozen sandwich. business class seating was like sitting on a couple of metal bars with a very basic ife with if i remember correctly had 3 movies. not worth the money. there is always a choice.:ok:

[Jawz]

Arkmark

Piss0ff

This is a pilots forum. Try http://www.pprune.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=22

[aulglarse]

Arkmark-suppose you don't know why some airlines(including Australian ones ) have a "stable" call? Hmmm , what does GARUDA mean???

[max autobrakes]

Good
Airline
Run
Under
Dutch
Administration

GARUDA

[swab]

I agree with you cunning!
Arkmark, to accuse others of having an Ego and in the next breath to be talking about "I have done this and I have done that". Hahahhahahaha. Maate, that's a crack up! I laughed till I was sick and vomited.

[Condition lever]

Fellas,

Don't get wrapped around the axles WRT Arkmark.
If he keeps flying Garuda we may not have the pleasure of his company much longer.
Perhaps the Aus g'ment will wake up to itself and ban them as per the Europeans.

[blow.n.gasket]

Airline of Choice all right. Last Choice!

[resboy]

Jump on staff travel and watch the loads on a MEL-HBA over a period of time ... not consistently chockers. Incidently I know people who regularly travel on these services subload with little drama. The remaining SYD-OOL flights are hit and miss as well. If Jetstar was so horrible these flights would be FULL day in and day out. The fact is for many people the wallet talks, and for an hour sector in the same seat with a free biscuit, the extra cost really doesn't cut it. Sad but true.

If the loads on the LST 737 (timed perfectly for the LST business market) were so fabulous then why was it replaced with a Dash?

What exactly is Tiger going to do differently the JQ doesn't? Am still keenly waiting for someone to spell this out for me. 15kg luggage allowance, similar fare rules, early check in close out, tighter seat pitch than both DJ and JQ, restrictions on bringing your own food on board doesn't seem like anything to necessarily blow JQ out of the water. Tiger is nothing innovative, it is simply another Loco template. Tiger ain't offering full service by any stretch of the imagination. Wait until Tiger turns passengers away from checkin after close out or charges for excess luggage. They won't be giving away freebies. An integral part of the low cost model is the extra revenue earnt for charging passengers to travel on the next flight after missing checkin, charging for excess baggage etc...

And after three years its finally time to move on. Jetstar never took flights from anyone and are certainly not the ones to blame. Qantas made a business decision to hand those flights over in creating Jetstar. Whether you call it proping JQ up or not the reality is the whole concept of Jetstar came from Qantas. And if it wasn't Qantas setting up Jetstar then it would have been someone else going in there with a Loco model blowing QF mainline out of the water on the very routes we have been talking about. How do you think mainline would have stacked up competing head-to-head against Tiger?

[lowerlobe]

Jetstar never took flights from anyone and are certainly not the ones to blame

So if J* did not take flights away then it was an airline with the same paint scheme and looked very similar.

How do you think mainline would have stacked up competing head-to-head against Tiger?

Perhaps if Tiger had not seen the public being treated to the J* model they might not have wanted to enter the market.Tiger obviously think they can do better than J* and that J* are not doing the job as well as they should or Tiger would not be doing this.

The idea for J* came from Darth and not QF.The staff are QF not Darth and as such you might understand why we are not all that happy with the J* idea.

There are a number of flights that darth handed over to J* giving the locals basically no choice and OOL is one of them.Well,when I say no choice they can always fly VB as I do when flying domestically rather than give my money to Darth.

If QF had spent the money on improving the legacy airline it would have been a different story.The business market has been treated woefully.

It would be interesting to see how J* would go if QF was not around to prop it up.

[roamingwolf]

"There are a number of flights that darth handed over to J* giving the locals basically no choice and OOL is one of them"

Lobey,the hnl trips are another.we used to have 747's and trying to get on with a staff ticket was not much fun and then they give them the flick and put on 767's and mate thats not enough so they give half of them to one star.how long will it be before only jokestar is flying to hnl and not us.

the punters are done over again