Flight Training Europe -v- OAT

[dizzy izzy]

I'm considering undertaking the intergrated CPL/IR at Jerez, but just wondered if anyone had any positive/negative comments on the course structure, instructors, etc... Oxford is the alternative and, again, any feed back would be greatly appreciated.

:)

[Hookerbot 5000]

Omg not this again, mods get out your buckshot! :}

[dizzy izzy]

Oh no! Sorry I asked!

:*

[Hookerbot 5000]

Dude the best thing you can do is to search for the OAT & FTE threads and read them. Also visit the schools.

Trust me! this is a debate you don't want to start again :ugh::uhoh:;)

I am personally starting @ Jerez as part of the Tfly/FTE scheme soon :}

[EZYramper]

Im not condoning this non-searching behaviour, but as I too am currently pondering this question I'll just give you my thoughts.

Some pro's and con's of both:

+ IR done in the UK at Oxford
+ MCC+JOC done in a 737classic sim at oxford
- Oxford costs about £10k more then FTE
-/+ OATs recently purchased by another company, this could cause some changes, not sure whether this is positive or negative tho
+ at FTE you get to spend a year in Spain! and it is cheap and easy to come bk to the UK for a weekend or so when you are feelin a bit pressured by everything, costs a bit more to pop bk from pheonix for the weekend!!
+ FTE is linked with GAPAN, the only flight school that is.
+ FTE is where BA used to conduct their sponsorship scheme and I believe still conduct MCC training.
- OATs grads come out with the "oxford complex".....
+ At FTE you will be flying the same fleet at the same airport for the whole time, no getting used to different aerodromes and different fleets

I have many more, and some may disagree with the points I've listed, but I'm cooking my lunch...and as others will tell you...do your own research!!

[Hookerbot 5000]

+I believe FTE are also in the process of installing a 737 NG sim for the MCC :)

[dizzy izzy]

Thanks.

I'm planning a trip down to Jerez within the next few weeks and I'll see how it goes.

Good luck!

[EZYramper]

I sooo hope that is true!

Personally I'd rather go to FTE, it just seems like it has a better vibe to it.

Actually I'd rather go to CTC, but failing that FTE is my first choice for flight schools. I'm still waiting on an assessment date, must be a very popular place!

[Hookerbot 5000]

Actually I'd rather go to CTC,


Fair comment, each to his own but i would prefer FTE over CTC anyday! (don't want to start a debate :uhoh::}:p)

[EZYramper]

FYI

If anyone is going to Jerez soon, you can get FREE flight on Ryanair at the moment from STN.

I wish they would tell me the dates so I could book it grrr!

[Blinkz]

A lot of those negatives against OAT just aren't true in my opinion.
Visit each school and see what you think. I think the main bonus of OAT is that you get all of the groundschool finished before you start flight training. This is a big plus in my book. I wanted to actually enjoy my flying and not have to be worrying about exams.
I see spending a year in Spain as a negative for FTE, but that is just an opinion because I don't like the country. I would far rather spend 5 months in Arizona and enjoy the US (have some amazing memories of this, especially road-trips with all your mates to LA, Vegas and the Grand Canyon)
OAT was also used by BA for their sponsorship schemes when it was running so that isn't just a plus for FTE. I also don't think that everyone who comes out of Oxford has a complex about them. Nearly everyone on my course has a job and its 3 months after graduating!

The problem is that no one was been to both schools and so they can't comment! However, I have a number of friends who went to OAT and then went to Jerex for the BA JOC and they all agreed that OAT was the better establishment.

[Yahweh]

What the heck is the "oxford complex" :confused:

Sounds like a new Jason Bourne Movie :}

[bananaman2]

Hi there

I agree with some of the stuff from Blinkz and EZYramper. Personally I would go to FTE, spend less money and have the same job prospects at the end - I also have some friends at Oxford and they stated that a lot of the job success stories are from people who made the effort in gaining employment for themselves (rather than benefitting from a job introduction). With regards to another comment - people getting into BA and doing the JOC at Jerez say Oxford is better, they would say that and is only fair to way this up against those from FTE getting into BA, who would probably say FTE is better (or maybe not so, but have 10 grand or so less debt).

Also if you go to Oxford it is more than likely the class sizes will approach 24, where as at FTE the equivalent is 12. This impacts the resources available, planes etc.

You can only make your mind up for yourself but it would also be useful to do some research on some old threads.

[dizzy izzy]

Thanks for the info!

I think I'm leaning towards Jerez, but I'll visit them both and see how I feel once I've had time to digest it all.

I just hope it's all worth it and I get a job at the end of it. :confused:

[Blinkz]

bananaman, the point of my comment about the OAT BA people wasn't to do with the fact that they were happy that they had got BA. Like you said FTE also have an excellent reputation with BA. My point was that these are the few people that have experienced both the FTE and OAT schools. And having experienced both they said they preferred OAT.

It all comes down to preference. Yes you do save money at FTE, however also remember that you get another 20hrs in a 737 at OAT, which isn't cheap. I found the JOC extremely useful and has prepared me well for sim checks.
If you want to spend a year in spain, but mix exams and flying then FTE is your place. If you want to get all of the groundschool out of the way (and trust me thats a good thing!!) and then have an amazing time flying in the US then OAT is your school.

Either way its a gamble, don't go to either schools expecting to walk into a job as 9/10 that isn't going to happen. Good luck with your career :ok:

[Hookerbot 5000]

One thing the starter of this thread must take note off is that you are not going to get an unbiased opinion here.

Do your own research, find out the good the bad, hype, spin, marketing etc and form your own opinion. Prune is a good place to start and the search function is good! :cool:

If you want to spend a year in spain, but mix exams and flying then FTE is your place.

Originally integrated was meant to be like this (mixing flying with gs) but then OAT changed things so really OAT is modular :p

Thread Closed right mod? :p

[dizzy izzy]

It's closed!!

[veetwo]

I believe that a flying school can actually do bugger all to land you a job, its all down to you. So any FTO that says that they can get you a job, or "enhance" your employment prospects by choosing them; Is clearly bullshi*ing.

Due respect, but you are mistaken here. Integrated schools these days do certainly play a role in providing (indirectly) jobs to their students. While no school will claim to guarantee you a position come graduation, most will (assuming you performed well on the course) get you an interview.

I graduated from an integrated school and within 2 weeks had an interview, passed and have now just signed a contract to fly A320's. 3 others on my course have done the same. Of the remaining 8, 4 have interviews lined up shortly thanks to the recommendation system in place at the school. At "the other" integrated school, I believe that the course who graduated at the same time as me has seen almost a 100% employment record.

Now, before you jump on me... the jobs come as a result of your success in the airline selection process the entry to which was secured by the school together with your performance. The school never promised me a job when I started my training. I do however have little doubt that I would not be in the position I am in now without their help. In fact I know I wouldn't. They opened the proverbial door and I managed to crawl through it.

At the same time I would caution all those starting their training now to guard against relying on the recommendations system - and part of me thinks that I was foolish to risk so much (a second mortgage on my parents house), and extremely lucky to have got away with it. It seems to me that a lot of the recommendations are down to how you got on with certain staff members... the general consensus being that if you keep your head down, don't cause any trouble and perform reasonably well you will probably get an interview or two. If you mess that up, then you are on your own.

V2

[Adios]

I have to agree with V2 on two counts. The school you go to plays a vital role first because you can't get a job without the training and all wannabes consider this when choosing the school best for them. I think even the most cynical ones on this thread would agree or else, they wouldn't put so much effort into finding the school that is right for them. They could just choose the cheapest or the one closest to their home or whatever. Don't tell me none of you ever ask what the graduate job success looks like when you visit FTOs! When wannabes quit asking this question, FTOs will quit publishing the results.

FTOs are are an easy place for an airline to find high quality low hour pilots. The fact that most airlines chose integrated schools when they did sponsorship programmes still carries weight today without airline scholarships as they still hire in large numbers from their previous training partners. BA sponsorship was provided by FTE and OAT and guess where BA get most of their low hour hires from today? BMI used OAT and have taken some 25 grads from them this year. Who did Aer Lingus go to when they started hiring again, their old sponsored training provider. The fact applies mostly to integrated schools as that is where most sponsorship was, but CTC has done well by adopting certain characteristics of integrated courses for their heretofore modular offering. Now even they appear to be going integrated. You can ignore this and still do well if you are a decent chap and get good results, but don't slag off others who notice this trend and decide to hedge their bets, as they have to make the int vs mod decision befor ethey ahve any results. It's horses for courses and this thread is about two integrated schools, not mod vs. int.

I also agree with his last paragraph, but would add that getting on in an organization by not rocking the boat too much is a skill needed as an employee, not just a student. I believe in using silver bullets sparingly and generally only when there is a werewolf around. In other words, don't whine over petty stuff, save your chits for safety related matters or serious ethical breaches and don't spend them complaining about the food in the canteen because no canteen ever has good food,

[captain p]

Just wanted to add to the pros of Oxford:

You remain in the UK for most of the course, so it is of course very easy to drive, get public transport home.

Phoenix is supposed to be fun. By that you should have made enough friends to enjoy yourself out there in the US. You probably wont have time to feel home sick! Plus the distance may force you to concentrate without the distractions of returning home at the weekend. My friends say they would love to visit Phoenix if I go with OAT.

Every aerodrome you go to, the locals will be speaking English Plus if you become a commercial pilot, be prepared to visit lots of different airports, you wont take off at LHR, circle and then land!

Its preety unfair to use the example of BA's sponsorship students training at FTE as a pro, as I believe they were also sent to Oxford and others. Furthermore in 2005/06 OAT's BA self sponsored students made up 56% of the F/Os ssps at BA. Also bear in mind that Willie Walsh (BA CEO visited Oxfords ball and trained there when he went to become a pilot with Willie Walsh). OAT also produced the youngest captain for GB, however FTE are used by GB for SSP.

OATs employment stats are open and very impressive. BA peaked in 2005, recruiting 35 grads. 27 in 06, and 20 so far this year.

There is skills protection with OAT and you dont start paying until 6 moths after.

You have to pay for OATs skill selection but not with Jerez, possibly because they wouldnt have anyone visiting them if you had to pay with free flights+taxes and charges, food costs and overnight accomodation??

There seems more self sponsorship schemes associated with FTE.

GAPAN have also sent students to a flying school in Europe!

Im not trying to put either flying school down. This is just my honest opinion of what i have researched, and have not started and flying school yet. I felt the Oxford environment to be a place I could really study. I have had dealings with FTE and I must say there courses too seemed very competitive, impressive and the campus seems really nice.

[dizzy izzy]

I've been asked to go down to Jerez for the Pilot Assessment Tests. Can anyone tell me what they consist of and what, if any, prep I should be doing?

Any info would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

:)

[Hookerbot 5000]

OMG izzy you are lucky you got me looking out for you ;) but really you should use the search function :hmm:

FTE thread:

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=215158

Make a cup of tea and get out those choccy hobnobs and have a good read.

[dizzy izzy]

I'm living up to my name!

Thanks

[Blinkz]

I'd just like to point out that you haven't been asked to go to FTE for selection, you have chosen to go! No matter what the schools tell you its not the other way around!

Good luck tho, and again make sure you check out OAT so you can have all the information before you choose between the two. Good luck.

[Hookerbot 5000]

the good thing is at least with FTE the slection is free and you only have to pay the price of the return ticket from Jerez...:)

Omg i have unwittingly entered this debate :hmm:....lol didn't mean too :}

good luck :ok:

[dizzy izzy]

One last thing...

I'm joking!

I appreciate your help.

[Adios]

Selection at FTE is not free. They simply pass the cost off to their students. Except only those who pass it and enrol pay and they are paying for those who fail it or don't join too! It's a bit more difficult and costly to get there, so they probably had to drop the up front fee to get enough people to come. In the end, they are still less expensive than Oat, so most people probably don't care if they are paying the cost of assessing those who failed, but don't kid yourself into thinking anything an FTO does is free!

[wbryce]

ahh the old pepsi vs cola arguement again! always worth a good read! visit both schools and go with the one you feel most comfortable with. Both have fantastic reputations and have successfully trained alot of pilots. :ok:

[Hookerbot 5000]

Lol Adios relax take a breath have some fun. Point taken.

I will simply state the fact that i pay close to £68K :eek: at FTE and others nearly £85k :eek: at OAT. Don't kid yourself of the cost! do the sums. You will probably come back and say otherwise but i know it's true (because allot of my friends (& pruners) graduated from there with a £80K ish debt)

Ah well like Wbryce says both are fine institutions and best of luck to whichever you choose. :D

:)

[Adios]

Hookerbot,

£85K at Oat? Either they had a lot of retakes, went on a grand shopping spree in Phoenix and included it in their numbers or they had one heck of a beer budget. If it was the latter that put them over £85K then they are probably a good bunch of mates to have, as who wants to fly with anti-social types!

Concerning loans though, please tell me which bank grants £80K worth. I don't argue with what your friends say they spent at Oat; but the loan limit through Oat's bank is £50K. FTE's bank loans more than that so their graduates are likely to have more debt. Obviously this point has little to do with where one should train, but I didn't want to let the misperception concerning debt go unanswered.

Perhaps your Oat mates borrowed more for a type rating, but then some FTE graduates have to pay for their own as well don't they? Again, Oat's bank will give a type rating loan, but £50K plus £20K is £70K not £80K.

Nobody should take the price differences lightly. Both are great schools and both get good results for their graduates. I don't think a person goes wrong with either, so it comes down to horses for courses if you can fund either or FTE if you can't.

[adwjenk]

Hey,
With regards to the £85k debt that could be true but only if you add on top a type rating, if you do the same to FTE then they come out dam close!!
OAT is a good school, we also have the same fleet as FTE, so do not know why that is a plus for FTE but not for OAT?? We start on the warrior then progress onto the Seneca!
So far Arizona has been the best time of my life, i have so many good memories and you do not have enough time to feel home sick!! You are flying or out and about taking in the sights! Be careful though of Scottsdale now that is where your debt could go up to 85K!!
I researched both and OAT was best for me and i do not look back one bit, if i had the choice id still come here, great instructors in both groundschool and the flying phase!!!
Also getting those exams nailed before you come out to fly is one huge advantage! What happens if you struggle with one exam in phase one or two yet you still carry on flying, gives you less time to study! Also what happens if you have hit the max re-take aloud before you have to resit the whole lot! You will have spent a lot more money then a OAT grad, since they will have not done any flying!! You get the flying bug then have to sit on the ground again to do exams! That was what put me off FTE the most the rest i liked! One downside with OAT if you are below 21, u can kiss goodbye to the nights out and beers with the guys, but then again self control and being responsible will do you good in time (well thats what i tell myself!!!)!
Also i think doing the I.R back in the UK will be not an advantage but give you more experience dealing with UK airspace and RT, since this is where most of us plan to end up flying for a career!!!
Also OAT is in England i can go home to see my family, and on free times not flying or my instructors days off i can head and visit friends at Uni and keep a social life outside of OAT which i can escape to without having to plan in advance my trip home, i can get in my car and go shopping or go away!
Just my views and what swayed me towards OAT compared to FTE!!
But each to their own and go visit both and make a decision just look beyound the sun and pool, you get that with OAT after groundschool :ok:
ADWJENK

[Wee Jimmy]

Dizzy Izzy!!!!!!

It sounds like your head is spinning like a top over all this stuff!!!!! :confused: :ugh:

The best thing for you to do is to take your time to make the right decision!!

Bear in mind that a friend of mine who went to Spain to study for a year got really homesick and ended up coming back early!!! :{

Anyway as you may have guessed with a name like ` Wee Jimmy` I`m from north of the border and I know of a couple of good schools up here! :ok:
I don`t know where you live but I could give you info if you want.

Take care

Wee Jimmy :)

[thirtysomething]

Just a quote note about FTE, im training in Fly in Spain next door. I have shared a house with a guy who is in FTE and hes very happy with them. The " campus " they have looks great. their fleet are in great nick and everything looks super professional. At the moment some people in FTE are being approached by airlines asking if they would be interested to fly for them before they have even finished the course. I am strongly considering " applying for a place " in FTE when i finish the PPL. I say applying as I believe they are fairly " booked " out for the next year and really are getting to pick and choose applicants.