The big merged L1011 thread

[OldCessna]

Anyone heard anything about a new cargo outfit operating out of Cyprus utilising a L1011 freighter?

[CR2]

Send a PM to 411A and ask....

[OldCessna]

Not expecting 411A being backward in coming forward I was awaiting his infinite wisdom!

Come on 411A where are you?

[Engineer]

May be he is trying to set up a new cargo outfit in Cyprus so could be a little busy at present :=

[JW411]

One of my old F/Es flew the L1011F for a few years. He said it was a nice but an overcomplicated aircraft compared to the DC-10.

The biggest drawback was that it ran out of fuel after 5½ hours with a full payload.

[411A]

Hmmm, Cyprus.

Not heard of that one, however as the market for L10 freighters is cornered by one certain individual, and that specific individual is well known for their rather shady dealings (one of their last aeroplanes was seized in RAK by the police and the crew arrested, as I recall), I would be extremely cautious about this 'new' outfit, whatever its name is.

A very extended barge pole approach might be advised.

In addition, the supply of the particular model of engine used on these airplanes is getting rather thin...you can't put a -500 engine on it without major modification to the number two mount, an engine intermix is limited to 30 calendar days, and fitting -22B's all 'round, while possible, limits ops to a rather significant extent.

Having said this, it might be pulled off on a limited basis, provided the engine AD's are complied with.

There has been significant L1011 interest in the past sixty days for some reason, perhaps it has to do with the lack of supply of other new(er) more fuel efficient types.
The 'ole TriStar, if operated in a reasonable manner, by folks who positively know how, can still provide success in a niche market.
We are developing one now, and with the assistance of the head of marketing from the old Laker group, reasonable success is expected.

[CR2]

Genuine Q from me...

What can a -F L1011 carry? Bit more than a DC8? Based on MZFW...

[barry lloyd]

I assume that the company would be based in Cyprus, rather than the aircraft?
I mean, what does Cyprus export? lemons/other citrus fruits - not expensive enough items for airfreight methinks.
Could there be a Russian connection? They love Cyprus.

[Sleeping Freight Dog]

There is a certain L1011F sitting at MIA that was damaged in Hurricane
Wilma a couple of years ago. Rumor is an old ATA L1011 was brought in
to provide spare parts for it to make it flyable again. Seeing as how MIA
is well known to be a maintenance repair facility for dodgy airlines all over
the third world, Could this be the aircraft in question?

[411A]

The L10 freighters (all but one) were converted by Marshal's and can carry 23 pallets on the main deck plus under floor bulk loaded cargo, the total of which cannot exceed 125,000 pounds.
JW411 got it right...max 5.5 hours with a full (weight) load.

[CR2]

125K LBS; so lets say 55T without getting the calculator out. Is that all???

[GotTheTshirt]

411
While not doubting your superior knowledge:} there is no difference in the engine mount for the number 2 engine with either B2 ( the original -200) engine and the B4 ( -500 engine):):)

The difference is the S duct adapter which is different lentgh for the B4.
The S duct in the aircraft is identical, the difference is the length of the S duct adapter that joins the S duct to the front flange of the engine.
The adapter (about 5 inches long) from a -500 ( and there are a few being broken!:)) bolts onto the S duct in place of the original adapter and viola ! install a B4.
You also need a few Lockheed SB's for legality:=

I believe that a company called Flightspares are handling the Miami Freighter together with the Ex ATA aircraft which would be used to replace parts on the freighter damaged by the hurricane.:ok:

[CR2]

Just for me...

ATA American Trans Air?

Thanks

[411A]

Afirm...American Trans Air.

[CargoOne]

CR2

L1011-200F is typically ~56t gross payload, however it is quite good on volume: main deck + belly works out at ~470 cbm, which makes it good for volumetric cargo, ratio is better than DC10-30F or A300F. Still it is not really a loghaul machine but can work all right on a certain routes.

But as it was mentioned above the biggest L1011F issue is doesn't matter what the company name, it is all about one certain individual who controlling most of L1011F (LCD model) fleet. Most people trying to stay away from him.

[OldCessna]

Thanks for the info 411A

There's now about 4 or 5 L1011 freighters available that the "individual" doesn't control.

I heard he's getting out of the market.

Anyway the Cyprus operations are apparently looking for 3 crews and all the other support people.

Stay tuned.

[AAL]

Must be Duane Egli's with new Kyrgyzstan papers and paperwork overhaul.

[Earl]

The last engine A/D on these L-1011's was quite expensive.
I know it grounded 3 of them in Thailand with Thaisky.
2 pax and 1 freighter.
Company could not afford to do them.
Last I heard the aircraft are still sitting on the ramp in BKK.

[AAL]

Earl, they still standing and Thai Sky AOC has been revoked. Their 1011F is a -10 model only 43 tons payload. Everyday passing looks less likely they will fly again. Nobody sees chance to pay the engine AD's - too expensive.

[OldCessna]

Whats the biggest AD & Mod that needs to be done?

Can the 22B's be replaced by 524B's by some modification?

The Cyprus airplane apparently has had all the Ad's done. Spar & Engines.

[Earl]

This engine A/D was due around the end of August last year on the 522.
From what I read it is due on the 524 by August of this year.
I understand from the old Maint. folks at Thaisky that this was at a cost of 230,000. USD per airplane.
This only ordered the kit from RR and was to give them a 1 year extension for the work to be accomplished.
This may not be good or current information since almost 1 year has passed since they were dealing with this problem.
Perhaps some ground engineers can expand further on this.
I will try to look up the A/D number.

[Earl]

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=233419
Here is a link to this that was discussed almost 1 year ago.
Should provide all the needed A/D info, unless RR or the FAA has changed this.
Hope this helps.
It is good to see the old Tristar making a comeback.
I guess with the shortage of wide body aircraft is the reason.

[ogounn]

No, Duane still based in RAK

[AAL]

Not wanting to hi-jack thread but as uncertainty about possible aircraft for any ops in Cyprus, might as well ask.

Does anybody know what has become of Duane Egli's outfit?

Last heard standing/grounded at RAK but then he took onboard another L1011-200 ex-Tradewinds (S/N -1201) also backyard conversion to bulkloader belonging to a Russian guy. Think its white with blue and red lines down window line. Last heard this machine was also at RAK but could possibly have positioned to Turkey? - Any info?

Not being able to fly anymore on any decent reg's believe they have all been re-registered In Kyrgyz or Kazak.

If a look on the flytristar website (active aircraft/owners/operators) - it is very unlikely that other or available L1011 freighters still exist that can be used for such a new intended operation out of Cyprus.

[TRITAR500]

Egly is looking for a Tcahd AOC, he move to Fujirah and he lost all his qualify crews. apparently he is buying the L-1011 from Thai Sky.
Still waiting to see his next move:ugh::ugh:

[411A]

'Tis a pity Duane hasn't contacted the L10 experts (shameless plug for our company here) as we have had a convenient AOC in hand for a couple of months and are about to put a pax model to work shortly...to Europe no less.

[skyline15]

Maybe completely unrelated, but enthusiast magazine Scramble reports that registration PH-RST has been reserved for L-1011 c/n 193W-1189 ex N753DA. Quoted owner is "World International Airways."

skyline

[skyline15]

Further to me earlier post re "PH-RST" see

http://www.eucomairlines.de/prodlist/msn189.html

skyline

[The AvgasDinosaur]

From Tristar 500
Egly is looking for a Tcahd AOC
TT-DWE is on a Tristar at Ras Al Khaimah, so it looks like he got one.
Be lucky
David

[glhcarl]

AAL,

According to Lockheed's records, L-1011 s/n 1201 was "attrited" (scraped) sometime in second half of 2006. This may or may not be true as Lockheed records are only as good as the reporting by the owner/operators. However, the majority of the current L-1011 owner/operators do not have a good track record on reporting things like hours and cycles and aircraft status, to Lockheed.

[TRITAR500]

Do you know any L-1011 freighter for sale or dry lease?

[Engineer]

Could try looking here (http://www.speednews.com/listings/jetindex.html) just click on the "search the listings" link :ok:

[AAL]

Tritar500, only freighter aware of is Thai Sky International -10. Its been standing now for about one year and like most requires some urgent AD upgrades and importantly engine turbine shaft inspections.

The company however is very indecisive about their and aircraft's future one minute wanting lease other to sell - but at unrealistic price.

You can see more about aircraft s/n 193C-1097 on Thai Sky website www.thaiskyairlines.com/main.html (http://www.thaiskyairlines.com/main.html) or obviously on airliners.net or on the flytristar web pages.

This -10 freighter was flown by now (2006) late Captain Ken Conde and as rumour goes quite a few are interested to lease or buy but concerned about period now on ground and future of such older machine. This was allegedly only dedicated freighter ever manufactured in Lockheed factory before production was halted. (stand 2 be corrected).

[GotTheTshirt]

AAL
1097 is a Pax aircraft
The old -1 freighter that is with Sky is 1012
The -200 F that was in BKK was 1212. Shown by Lockheed as operated by Skeyeyes but now in UAE grounded:)
1198 is a 200F shown by Lockheed as operated by Freedom Air, whoever they are !!:confused:
Still some freighters in Roswell and California:}

[OldCessna]

411 I am impressed!

A European L1011 AOC and a EASA registered L1011 !
That is really something from what I have heard lately.

As a matter of sincere interest, can you enlighten us as to how you complied with the axial motion AD which will be applicable to all L1011's by next month.

We are still trying to figure that one out?

[AAL]

Sorry all! - GotTheTShirt is quite correct. Only wanted to point Tritar500 in the direction of the only known for sale/lease L1011 freighter that I am aware of.

Indeed correct - it is s/n 1012 HS-AXF of Thai Sky Airlines formerly Tradewinds International.

[TRITAR500]

My contact told me Duane is trying to make a deal on this aircraft, with a pseudo C-check in Indonesia and flying without the differnt S.B.

[AAL]

Tritar500, those backyard converted bulkloaders all have dubious pseudo C-Checks, are all time-ex, and when purchased originally were out of calender.

Reason why enquired about status and whereabouts of s/n 1201. It was also a pax configured aircraft with backyard conversion to so-called bulkloader without Lockheed STC. It had been parked (stored) at Greensboro way out of calender and simply "returned to service" and now almost 6 years after last C-Check is maquarading as a clean "fresh" aircraft. It was for short periods registered as 9Q-CVN and 5X-AAL but could not even comply with regulatory compliance requirements of DR Congo or Uganda - says much!

When last heard Duane had also taken it on his "books", and this aircraft and Duane's two, was leased to Reem Air of Sharjah but this was probably only another measure of convenience to get cheap unregulated registration from Kyrgyz register - who are not even type-rated to oversee and regulate. No decent respectable AMO is prepared to touch these machines, neither was Gamco in Abu Dhabi - so leaves further serious questions about the authority that was prepared to register and issue C of A's to aircraft with no maintenance contract and support.

What is troublesome about these specific three aircraft (Duane's 2 and sn/1201) is that the otherwise very efficient and first-class authorities of the UAE tolerates and allows them to freely operate in and out of the UAE. These machines, apart from their tech condition, they are a nightmare to operate requiring in excess of 8 - 10 hours to load and as long to off load. Cant see any half respectable airport authority allowing such a turn around time.

[The AvgasDinosaur]

Quote from AAL
What is troublesome about these specific three aircraft (Duane's 2 and sn/1201) Which are the other 2 please?
Just how many of these old girls are still earning their jet A1 either legitimately or otherwise, can't be more than 30 still flying I would have thought. Plus others stored in U.S. deserts.
Thanks in anticipation
Be lucky
Dave T.

[AAL]

Egli's two "bulkloaders" -100's, former British Caledonian, were registered on many previous reg's but last on Liberian register A8-AAA (s/n 1101) and A8-AAB (s/n 1093) before going to Kyrgyz register for convenience and to operate under Reem Air, after the EU ban on Ducor World Airways (Liberia).

[Earl]

So has any known Tristar company complied with this engine A/D, or will they all be finished by the drop dead date next month?

[GotTheTshirt]

RR has supplied 7-8 kits to date.
Current delivery for kits ( Different for B2 and B4) is 6 to 12 months

RR will give an LTS ( Letter of Technical Support) if kits are ordered ( And paid:))

I dont think and 22 B have been modified but not sure. In fact I am not sure if there is any 22B shop available aprt from RR.

Although this Axial Motion AD 2003-14-2 has all the publicity there are a couple more hookers on the HPC3 disc and the IP5 disc

On 1 Dec 2008 the life of the IP5 Disc ( Certain p/n's) drops from 22,500 cycles to 9,400 cycles. So on Nov 30 a disc with 22,490 cycles is legal on Dec 1 it aint :confused: Figure that out:mad: !

[5Y744]

Hmmm,

Piece of junk that even Delta couldn't keep in the air....

Now add fuel costs....

[OldCessna]

Err I think a few airlines ran these for quite sometime. In fact they ran longer than most airplanes!

Please clarify your fuel cost comment?

[Earl]

Fuel burn was not that heavy, ran one of these -500 from South America to Madrid.
On a average 10-10.5 hour leg mach .84 fuel burn was between 84-85 tons.
Any one know how this compares to the others types?
We also carried full loads of 304 pax, always at max weight.

[Broomstick Flier]

Hi Earl

Had the pleasure to work with the L1011-500 during the mid-90's, routing South America-Lisbon. All in all nice birds, but rather temperature sensitive (payload restrictions kicked in heavily after 25/26°C, minded, we were on at 2500ft elevation).

I also remember that when we upgraded(?) to the A343, and comparing both types, the fuel burn of the -500 was more or less the block fuel for the A343, with the latter loading more SLF and cargo.

BF

[OldCessna]

Hi Earl
Was that GlobeJet?
I heard they were grounded in Bolivia with aircraft impounded & crew stuck there for non payment of fuel, landing charges etc

[Earl]

Sent you a PM old cessna.
Not true.
Globejet pays its crews and bills , problem is with the Bolivian company.
GJ is still going strong, with good maintained aircraft.
They treat everyone as family at GJ, small company, great place to work.

[411A]

Piece of junk that even Delta couldn't keep in the air....


Strange comment, considering Delta had, at one time, 69 TriStars (as I recall) and were the largest operator of the type, and...according to a DAL senior VP I had a conversation with, just after they retired the last one, (his words directly), 'the TriStar made us more money than any other airplane we have operated, to date.'

Guess it wasn't so 'bad' after all....:rolleyes:

[OldCessna]

I agree with 411A there..heard many positives on this type.

ATA has opted to keep their L1011's while integrating the DC10's which apparently are not anywhere near as reliable!

Lot of L1011's coming out of mothballs lately. (ok the desert)

[glhcarl]

L-1011-200F s/n 1158 previously operated by Fine Air and Millon Air is currently stored in Roswell NM. Pictures take in the last two weeks, show engines have been removed and not in the best shape. s/n 1158 was the last EA Tristar delivered and spent time with LTU, freighter conversion was by Marshall.

[411A]

A European L1011 AOC and a EASA registered L1011 !


Ah...no, just flying to Europe, very limited destinations.
Traffic rights now approved, approval for advance ticket sales are next, AOC in the respective country already issued, aircraft selected, maintenance underway shortly.

Oddly enough, I was just informed today that a -500 may also be required, for Caribbean/Central America flights.

All this is possible through the direct efforts of an ex-Laker guy, the marketing manager, whom I have known for many years.

[The AvgasDinosaur]

Quote from Skyline15
Maybe completely unrelated, but enthusiast magazine Scramble reports that registration PH-RST has been reserved for L-1011 c/n 193W-1189 ex N753DA. Quoted owner is "World International Airways."

skyline
Quote from 411A
Quote:
A European L1011 AOC and a EASA registered L1011 !
Ah...no, just flying to Europe, very limited destinations.
Traffic rights now approved, approval for advance ticket sales are next, AOC in the respective country already issued, aircraft selected, maintenance underway shortly.

Oddly enough, I was just informed today that a -500 may also be required, for Caribbean/Central America flights.

All this is possible through the direct efforts of an ex-Laker guy, the marketing manager, whom I have known for many years.

So these are not the same operation, ergo we have two new Tristar operations coming to Europe !:ok: Good news indeed.
Thanks contributors for your time and trouble.
Be lucky
David

[OldCessna]

411A

So have you done the mod that Earl & GTTS talk about for your project?

Thanks

[411A]

Could be in progress shortly, all in good time.
Then again, we may get a waiver from the respective countries regulatory authority...working on this now.
Time will tell.

[polzin]

I will be polite as I can be about your post. You are an idiot.
411A is right on.
ATA bought, as I remember, 6 of them from Boeing which had taken them in trade and one year later Delta offered to buy them back at 1 $million more than ATA paid for them. Hardy sounds like they were trying to dump them.
I flew the -500 from Stockholm to Pheuket, full pax load, 10 hours 15 minutes many times.
Kenny Polzin
Sorry....... that would be $1million each, more.
George could have sold them and retired at that point.

[glhcarl]

polzin,

Addtionally to your responce to 5y744

When Delta could not buy the ATA TriStar's they picked up 10 ex-Eastern L-1011's. The majority of these were in "rough" shape and Delta still thought that they were worth the extra maintenance costs. Remember, it was not until Delta had removed the TriStar's from service that they started to have revenue problems, that ultimately lead to their bankruptcy.

A couple of other airliners Air Transat and LTU have both publicly stated they owe their existance to the proffits they generated while operating the TriStar.

[Kitoro Kid]

I was on my way from Freetown to Nairobi yesterday on Kenya Airways and the flight was via Accra , and in Accra I saw on the ramp a Tristar 500, with LX registration , and being cleaned undernieth the fuselage , maybe to get rid of oil and dirt , also they had taken off the airlines name from the fuselage , looked like it had been written "Star" maybe this one was going to a better home? Its was a pax aircraft , not cargo , maybe it was one of those that were cargo with no cargo door , and no 9g net?
Anyone have any details on this one? certainly alot of activity around it.
Aircraft had a blue tail , the rest was white

Stay lucky

[OldCessna]

CS-TMR left Amsterdam-Schiphol today after a 3 year stay at the
airport.

Enroute to Lisbon.

Some small and dark weather pics of her departure can be seen here

http://www.scramble .nl/forum/ viewtopic. php?t=34010

[Earl]

Should see another -500 operarating in and out of Warsaw beginning tomorrow.
These aircraft may be a bit old, but reliable,with the shortage of widebody aircraft they are making a come back.
Last ones I have seen are in better shape and maintained than some 747's I have operated in the past with previous company.
So have a nice day 5y744!
Saudia has some 16 or 17 of these -200's parked in Taif.
2 or 3 of them have had the rear spar mod completed.
Never understood why they could not be sold, except the maint records were never kept correctly and previous buyers attempts to rectify this problem was met with great difficulty and abandoned.
But then, it is the majik kingdom, nothing is easy there.
Ali babba still rules!

[411A]

Actually, Kitaro Kid, the airplane you noticed was a -100 series, and the old registration was EX-, not LX-...and yes we know all about this.
Pax operation, not cargo.
The 9G registration goes on shortly. It is a old TWA airplane, and quite a nice one, at that.
New charter airline that appears to be rather well funded, considering some of the previous efforts.

[Earl]

Without having to do a search 411, excactly what country is this?
9G? for the AOC

[411A]

9G is Ghana.

[AAL]

9G - was recently downgraded to a class 2 registry - but still at this stage hardly a registry of convenience. Cant see how a combination of 9G registry and ancient L1011 probably with lacking maintenance records and dubious AMO is going to fly freely and unhindered into the EU. Think again.

It seems if Ghana is fast becoming the new African registry of convenience (EU take note!) after all the others have been banned. With their recent downgrading they must take care not to land up completely banned by the EU before long.

[Nippon1]

Earl

Saudia can never sell their aircraft.....as they never bought them....they were a gift from Allah.

[411A]

9G - was recently downgraded to a class 2 registry - but still at this stage hardly a registry of convenience. Cant see how a combination of 9G registry and ancient L1011 probably with lacking maintenance records and dubious AMO is going to fly freely and unhindered into the EU. Think again.


Doesn't make any difference with this particular operator as it will not be flying to the EU.

Oddly enough, one might be surprised at the profits to be made by avoiding the EU altogether.:rolleyes:

[The AvgasDinosaur]

Quote from 411A
Actually, Kitaro Kid, the airplane you noticed was a -100 series, and the old registration was EX-, not LX-...

Could this be S/N 1201 seen at Istanbul - Sabiha Gokcen (SAW / LTFJ) in March 2007. It was re-registered EX-102 ; all white ; 2 red stripes no titles. The Aircraft was operating for Reem Air. 1201 was also seen in May 2007 stored at Ras al-Khaimah. This is the former 5X-AAL of Almidon Aviation.

However AAL,
According to Lockheed's records, L-1011 s/n 1201 was "attrited" (scraped) sometime in second half of 2006. This may or may not be true as Lockheed records are only as good as the reporting by the owner/operators. However, the majority of the current L-1011 owner/operators do not have a good track record on reporting things like hours and cycles and aircraft status, to Lockheed.
Scrapped in 2nd half of 2006 and extant at Ras al-Khaimah in May 2007. The thick plottens somewhat :uhoh:
Your comments and observations much appreciated.
Be lucky
David

[GotTheTshirt]

Earl,
The complete Saudi fleet has been sold ( Yes they finally found the right guy to "facilate" the deal.:}
According to LAC the new owner is Regency Projects

I heard they have already broken a couple up for spares but are getting at least 4 ready to fly:D

Any idea who the Warsaw operator is?

[AAL]

Could this be S/N 1201 seen at Istanbul - Sabiha Gokcen (SAW / LTFJ) in March 2007. It was re-registered EX-102 ; all white ; 2 red stripes no titles. The Aircraft was operating for Reem Air. 1201 was also seen in May 2007 stored at Ras al-Khaimah. This is the former 5X-AAL of Almidon Aviation.

However
Quote:
AAL,
According to Lockheed's records, L-1011 s/n 1201 was "attrited" (scraped) sometime in second half of 2006. This may or may not be true as Lockheed records are only as good as the reporting by the owner/operators. However, the majority of the current L-1011 owner/operators do not have a good track record on reporting things like hours and cycles and aircraft status, to Lockheed.
Scrapped in 2nd half of 2006 and extant at Ras al-Khaimah in May 2007. The thick plottens somewhat :uhoh:
Your comments and observations much appreciated.
Be lucky
David

This machine s/n 1201 certainly justifies closer scrutiny and attention if records indicate that it was scrapped during the latter half of 2006, while in reality it was brought to life with a "paperwork" return-to-service at Greensboro and now masquarading as an aircraft with a fresh C-Check notwithstanding last C-Check almost 6/7 years ago.

It was bastardised into a so-called bulkloader at a backwater airport in Mafekeng South Africa by unqualified Russian Antonov-26 engineers, no STC for work and conversion, and has no 9-G bulkhead or net.

How does the first class CAA of the UAE, or even that of Turkey (if its there) allow such to fly?

[Earl]

The one in Warsaw is GJ doing ACMI contract for the locals.

[411A]

Could this be S/N 1201 seen at Istanbul - Sabiha Gokcen (SAW / LTFJ) in March 2007. It was re-registered EX-102 ; all white ; 2 red stripes no titles. The Aircraft was operating for Reem Air. 1201 was also seen in May 2007 stored at Ras al-Khaimah. This is the former 5X-AAL of Almidon Aviation.


No, Avgas Dinosaur, not the same airplane...1201 was originally delivered to GF, not TWA.

[AAL]

AvgasDinosaur and 411A:

Exactly the same one described by AvgasDinosaur.

1201 is all white ex Tradewinds with blue and red window lines. It was indeed registered EX-102 and taken on books of Reem Air who are also incidently on EU banned airlines list. Last news this aircraft had blown its no 3 (RB-524) engine and looking for investor to replace. Standing at either Ras Al Khaimah or in Turkey.

Interesting also that Duane Egli's machines were also moved from Liberian registry to Kyrgyz under name of Reem Air.

[TRITAR500]

EX-102 ( REEM AIR) had a compressor stall in istambul and the crew blew 8 tires and sealed 2 engines, they brig this one from US and they modify it ( to Duane conversion) in RSA . The aircraft saw in Ghana is owned by Basem Mishal it is an ex Star Air.

[fergineer]

and the years have passed since I last flew the L1011 Fr8ers, took me time to get over just how bad a condition that they were in then, I shudder to think what they are like now. What nationality are the crews that are flying them now we were replaced by Jordanians when the costs got too much as we would not fly the aircraft in the state they were in.
Would be interesting to see who is behind them flying again and how your airline is going 411A glad to se someone keeping the old gals in the air, hope the servicing is being done.
Fly safe and keep the blue side up, if they ever need crew down in this neck of the world give me a call.

[TRITAR500]

The L-1011 flying out of Middle-east and Africa have crew from Jordan, Russia, USA, few from EEC and now from Thailand. Some gote fake licence or type rating:ugh:

[The AvgasDinosaur]

Here is a picture of 5X-AAL s/n 1201.
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/0761525/M/
If A8-AAB is now TT-DWE via EX-072 reregistration, could the one at Accra be the former A8-AAA c/n 1101 reregistered to EX-???. Doubtful from the description and looking at these photos
Other Duane Egli L1011s http://www.airliners.net/open.file/0667693/M/
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/1189705/M/
Your comments and observations appreciated.
Be lucky
David
P.S. AAL please check your PMs

[TRITAR500]

The other aircraft registration is TT-DAE, both Duane aircrafts are regitred in Tchad under a new company name: AMW tchad ( aircraft machinery works). He owe 500.000,0$US to a company in UAE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! so he better in N'Djamena

[GotTheTshirt]

AAL,
Got the right digits but wrong order:)
The Ex Tradewinds was s/n 1012 one of the first aircraft delivered to Eastern.

Converted initially by Monarch Engineering in Miami but finished by Pemco in Dothan.
Only freighter not converted by Marshalls
Eventually went to Tradewinds in Greensboro.
Operated for many years very well then sold a feww years ago to Skyeyes.
Registered in Thailand it operated a while including the Bahrain-Bagdad operation.
Now grounded by Thai's due to engine axial motion AD.
Has 22B engines:O

[TRITAR500]

The 22B was with Thai sky cargo :XS AXF, Sky eyes has 524B engines

[411A]

Many times the problem is, fergineer, the complete lack of experience with the TriStar by many of the new(er) pilots and ground engineers.
Many of these folks have not been properly trained, and as we all know, the TriStar is rather unforgiving of inappropriate operation and duff servicing.
The small company I worked for during the last Hajj for example operated three airplanes, all -1's.
The airplane I flew (along with one other Captain) had no 'issues' during the entire Hajj operation, with the exception of high vibration on the #2 engine, which was fixed straight away by one of our on-board ground engineers (we carried three at all times) by trim balancing the number two fan. This one particular guy was straight out of the engine shop in AMM on loan and was very experienced on RR engines.
Due to the excellent record of these ground engineers, I recommended they be paid an extra bonus...and they were, they smiled all the way to the bank.
It is getting harder and harder to find properly experienced folks on type, those that operated the TriStar many years ago, for large carriers....carriers that provided proper training, not just a quick look-in-the-books, and then signed off.
The TriStar is a fine aircraft, and can indeed make profits provided it is operated and maintained properly.

[GotTheTshirt]

TRITAR

There are 2 dedicated freighters that were on Thai reg.
The first is the one above s/n1012.
That went to Skyeyes in 2003
Skeyes is a Thai freight forwarder and te original aircraft used the name
The freight company then took it own freighter s/n 1212 in 2004 which was a MA conversion ex GF with B2 engines
The original company then changed name to Thai Sky and also took some of the ex Delta -1 pax aircraft
As far as I know they had exensions on the Thai sky aircraft for the AD but that has expired.
The Skyeyes freighter 1212 has the AD complied with but is stuck in th UAE ? RAK in the usual wrangling !!:}

[AAL]

GotTheTShirt: 1201 as a pax aircraft was also for some time in possession of Tradewinds. 1201 and 1012 were "purchased" at about the same time and "returned-to-service" at Greensboro simultanously. 1012 departed first to Thailand. You are correct she is a freighter and have also heard she is standing now.

S/n 1201 was flown to South Africa where converted to "backyard bulkloader" after which it was attempted to place on Swazi-, then DR Congo Civil Registers. After no joy it was registered by Uganda CAA for about one year but when could not comply was deregistered and again registered in Kyrgyz as EX-102. This machine had plenty troubles and now allegedly standing at Istanbul with blown engine.

RECENT HISTORY OF s/n 1201:

06/2004 bought West Air16.11.2004 bought AeroLift ; flew JNB-CGK-Philippines in Tradewinds colours ; no titles ; re-registered 9Q-CVN18.11.2004 had an inflight engine shutdown ; hence the landing at Cairns ; no titles ; named "Natali"20.11.2004 ferried to Sydney for further work04/2005 bought Vadim Lahktin ; leased Almiron Aviation ; re-registered 5X-AAL11.05.2005 seen at Johannesburg ; no titel ; Tradewinds colours13.07.2005 5X-AAL overran runway at Lagos - runway closed 2 days02.10.2005 seen parked Ras al-Khaimah23.04.2006 seen Dhaka - Zia International (DAC / VGZR)05/2006 seen parked Ras al-Khaimah21.03.2007 seen Istanbul - Sabiha Gokcen (SAW / LTFJ) ; re-registered EX-102 ; all white ; 2 red stripes no titels ; operating for Reem Air12.05.2007 again stored Ras al-Khaimah

This is s/n 1201, exactly as reported by Avgasdinosaur :

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/0761525/M/

TRITAR500: Very possible that Duane has moved to Chad (Ndjemena) as it is impossible for those two old machines to fly any longer in decent areas. Even based and flying out of Ras Al Khaimah his only destinations were Dhaka in Bangladesh and Ndjemena in Chad, flying for rediculously low rates.

Prior to this though Duane most definately also tried to team up with Reem Air together with L1011 sn/1201. Reem are Russian IL-76 operators and can imagine that they must have viewed the acquisition of these three L1011's as their breakthrough into western aircraft, perhaps unsuspecting but little realising that these machines were finnished and with nowhere to go.

Would be interesting to know if Duane owes Reem Air the alleged substantial amount of money. Having moved to Chad will however not help Duane much as the flying to Ndjemena is primarily from the UAE and prospects are slim that those two old machines will be allowed into UAE again, or for much longer.

[GotTheTshirt]

AAL,

Yes I remember now that was one of the 3 ex GF that Phillip Coleman and his merry men bought:\
It was put on to Tradewinds AOC and when it all went it usual way (non payment:*) It just sat a GSO for a long time.:)

[Earl]

That Thaisky L-1011 freighter from what I just was told has no extension paperwork on it for the engine A/D that expired in August of last year.
Was there had to buy my own ticket home.
The Thai female owner at Thaisky could care less about the crews.
She just looked at us in the face and said not her problem with a translater.
There were a few trying to buy or lease the aircraft but the owners were trying to ask too much to release the airplane.
This L-1011 has the small 522 engines.
I have to agree with 411, if this airplane is maintained by quaility trained ground engineers then it is a good aircraft.
The Jordanian ground engineers are some of the best, all ex RJ.
It can be an avionics nightmare for the ones that are not experinenced in such and cost the in-experienced company quite a bit in replacing parts that are fully servicable.
As far as the engine vibs problem, when this starts to get close to the limit of 2.5 on both channels, just have the N-1 blades checked.
These things slide, a common RR problem, once trapped with dirt crud etc it will give a vibration indication, this is easily corrected.
Same problem on the 747 with the rollers, not just a Tristar related issue.
The only negative thing that I can say about this aircraft pax or freight is that the brakes are very critical.
They overheat very easy.
Long Taxi, short runways, heavy weight aborted takeoffs are not user friendly.
Dont be a big foot on the brakes, if slightly overheated order an air cart to cool them once parked, chocked and brakes released and this aircraft will make you money and take you where you need to go.
And when maintained by qualified ground engineers and operated by experienced crews this aircraft is better than most.
To include the 747.

[GotTheTshirt]

EARL,
If that is s/n 1212 then it has the AD has been complied with:)
It has the 524-B2 engines and the AD was due within 3 months of the AD which was Aug 2003.
1012 has not been done:\

[Earl]

Not sure of the registration number GTTS.
But this aircraft had the small 522 engines.
This A/D shut this company down.
When this ended August of last year only 1 passenger aircraft was flying, the other was being canned for spare parts.
A maint ground engineer commented to me that they needed around 100,000. usd to get the other pax aircraft back in the air, not to mention the 230,000 usd per aircraft needed for the engine A/D for all three.
I am sure of this as the freighter was the only aircraft that any outside buyers or operators was interested in, but none had the funds to buy the kit and program from RR.
Even while operating this freighter was being operated by a third party other than Thaisky even though on their own registration.

[The AvgasDinosaur]

From information I have been able to check
s/n 1012 has -22B engines and is stored at Bangkok its registration HS-AXF was canceled 5/10/2006.
s/n 1212 has-524B402 engines and is stored curiously at Ras al Khaymah last noted there 12.05.2007 seen stored as HS-SEC.
I have checked Ras al Khaymah on Google Earth at 55° 56’ 20” E,25° 36’ 49” N but can not see any Tristars there. I am unsure how to date google earth images.
What is the affinity of Ras al Khaymah for Tristars ? with 1093, 1101,1201,1212, 1237 and 1245 all stored there in July 07.
Hope it helps
Be lucky
David

[AAL]

Think many are drawn to RAK in desperation and in the belief that "old-man" Daune can somehow offer them last-ditch chance to do some flying while at the same time drawing on his experience and engineers to keep them flying in what they may perceive to be a less stringent and less regulated environment.

Other important of course is that RAK is relatively cheap, much cheaper than rest of UAE.

Secondary operators are also under impression that all the world's cargo is available in UAE - till they get there and then discover that only non-viable routes freely available to places such as Eldorette in Kenya, Ndjamena in Chad, Bangui in CAR, Lagos - Nigeria, and to North West Africa, all destinations offered at rediculous rates with no chance of return cargo.

[411A]

...that this would have gone on for five pages.
Imagine.
All this verbal activity about a thirty five year old aeroplane, that is operated in very small numbers....:}:E

TriStar, fondly remembered, never equaled.:D

[CR2]

I've been following this thread with interest, mainly for my own education. The one thing that bugs me (as 411A has indirectly indicated) is that it's becoming something of an aircraft spotter's thread.
Let's keep it on a pro- level.

[AAL]

Dear Mr Mod,

Think this began to speculate possibilities about a new cargo outfit starting up out of Cyprus intending to use L1011 freighters and grew from there. The debate centred about the possibilities that this might entail seeings that L1011 freighters have become as scarce as hen's teeth.

The "spotting" bit was merely to identify which machines are standing around and might be available for such an intention, and what some's intentions under such circumstances (and opportunity) might be.

The history of the L1011 and the fate of the few last few remaining one's will allways interst enthusiasts. Thank you for tolerating us.

[The AvgasDinosaur]

Quote from GotTheTShirt
The complete Saudi fleet has been sold ( Yes they finally found the right guy to "facilate" the deal.
According to LAC the new owner is Regency Projects

All the remaining Saudia aircraft have undergone two changes of ownership since they entered storage.
01/1999 stored Taif
01.04.2004 bought Al Thuraya Marine Services
01.03.2006 bought Regency Projects Ltd
The two exceptions are HZ-AHP s/n 1190 which is used for anti terror training and HZ-AHQ s/n 1192 which is with the Saudi Royal Flight Museum.
Mr Mod look at the depth of knowledge displayed by many of the contributors to this thread, predominantly former Tristar people ! Who wish to share their knowledge.:D :ok:
Quote from 411A
TriStar, fondly remembered, never equaled. :D

Be lucky
David
P.S. Anyone got any news from Cyprus yet?

[fergineer]

Yes would be interesting to see who is actually going to operate these aircraft and who is going to crew them. It would appear that there could be numerous operators starting up again so where are the crews coming from. Me I have retired unless a real operator came to light with proper papers and servicing.

[AAL]

Fergineer, The Jordanian crews and maintenance personnel are good, as for the rest of the other who have still not progressed to newer machines and better operations - believe me - you are really scraping the bottom of the barrel.

Dont know which is the bigger liability, the machine or the pirate crews who "eat you up" from the inside.

[mutt]

All the remaining Saudia aircraft have undergone two changes of ownership since they entered storage.
01/1999 stored Taif
01.04.2004 bought Al Thuraya Marine Services
01.03.2006 bought Regency Projects Ltd

My understanding is that deposits were paid but ownership never changed hands.

Mutt

[OldCessna]

Quote:
All the remaining Saudia aircraft have undergone two changes of ownership since they entered storage.
01/1999 stored Taif
01.04.2004 bought Al Thuraya Marine Services
01.03.2006 bought Regency Projects Ltd

My understanding is that deposits were paid but ownership never changed hands.

It's a Pakistani shipping company. One in the same.

Looks like they are bring 4 aircraft (L1011) back into service initially. In fact the first is starting "C Check" at Joramco next month.

[fergineer]

So with all the information that people have out there does anyone have accurate information on which aircraft is with who and where. It would be nice to see where the remaining aircraft are. Ryo Suki's website appears to have closed down as this is where I used to get the up to date info from. If there is an alternative site please let me know.
Regards
Fergi

[The AvgasDinosaur]

You can try these two
http://www.l1011.de/
http://trijets.net/tristar/
Though I have found the second one a bit fragile and very slow to load at times.
Correspondents have made reference to Lockheeds data on this thread but alas I know not the web address.
Quote from GotTheTShirt
1097 is a Pax aircraft
The old -1 freighter that is with Sky is 1012
The -200 F that was in BKK was 1212. Shown by Lockheed as operated by Skeyeyes but now in UAE grounded
1198 is a 200F shown by Lockheed as operated by Freedom Air, whoever they are !!
Still some freighters in Roswell and California
Quote from glhcarl
According to Lockheed's records, L-1011 s/n 1201 was "attrited" (scraped) sometime in second half of 2006. This may or may not be true as Lockheed records are only as good as the reporting by the owner/operators. However, the majority of the current L-1011 owner/operators do not have a good track record on reporting things like hours and cycles and aircraft status, to Lockheed.

Hope it helps
Be lucky
David

[Saturn]

Some really cool add-ons to flight sim 4 on that first site. L1011/DC10/DC8 and 727.
Anyhoo thought I'd start a location guide for the L1011.
Globejet.......5-500's Jordan
Luzair..........2-500's EU
EuroAtlantic..1-500 EU
ATA (US)......4-500's I think
Don't know of any more currently flying (Oh yeah-British Air Force). I'd like a chance to fly the Tri-Star some day.

[fergineer]

Yes Saturn I can confirm the Luzair ones, they were the ones I flew with Air Luxor, believe the one that was damaged in Amsterdam is now getting repaired and the one with Euro Atlantique also from Portugal, the crews there flew with me when Caribjet were operating a -200 freighter. Tried to get a job with Globejet but they never answered my emails.
Avgas dinasaur, thanks for the info have not got onto the http://trijets.net/tristar/ site for weeks now which is a pity as the site was well run and updated on a fairly regular basis.
Interesting to hear that Duane is still going after he wrecked the ex Cale aircraft which I flew for years.
I had heard that there was going to be movement in Russia but not how and when. As has been said they are making a comeback for how long is anyones guess just wish all the crews safe flying.

[dionysius]

Was in Ndjamena yesterday and there is a tristrar parked up, it is still in Bcal colours , didnt get the reg but it looks like one of DE's a/c, and no activity around it.

[OldCessna]

Looks like the new cargo outfit is headed up by Karabatis in Cyprus.

Anyone have knowledge of him or this outfit?

[Bigt]

Mr Karabatis appears to attract the same publicity as Mr Eglis..............

[TRITAR500]

The aircraft in NDJ is Duane, she should go to work in Kyrgystan. Fo Cyprus I remember, 2 years ago, a friend of mine did ferry a Lanta L-1011F from Aman to Cyprus ; they had to land in Greece to make some inspection and maintenance. The crew went back to Dubai. I think it was for this guy; they never recieved any money for their job!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[The AvgasDinosaur]

Quote from OldCessna
Looks like the new cargo outfit is headed up by Karabatis in Cyprus.

Is this the same guy that ran/runs Venus Airways in Greece?
Be lucky
David

[fergineer]

So we have 105 posts and still no real information on what is happening. We wait with baited breath for any happenings, all the talk about tristars flying again is it all hype or will it actually happen.

[AAL]

Fergineeer, think you are closest to the truth here. We all know the odds and possibilities, and what freighters around and which flying. Think the polar ice caps gonna melt first before this happens.

[fergineer]

3 weeks on and still no more news.........time to put the manuals away for good me thinks!!!!!

[OldCessna]

The last thing I heard was that they are having problems locating crews!

Plenty of equipment but a shortage of crews?

The Venetian project snagged a few drivers & maintenance guys.

A new outfit in Europe has been looking for crews also.

Whats cooking with your Euro venture 411A?

[The AvgasDinosaur]

Quote by skyline15
Maybe completely unrelated, but enthusiast magazine Scramble reports that registration PH-RST has been reserved for L-1011 c/n 193W-1189 ex N753DA. Quoted owner is "World International Airways."

Any news from the Dutch angle on these gracious ladies?
I understand that the one which has recently escaped from Amsterdam has gone on to Victorville for a "D" check.
Be lucky
David

[411A]

Whats cooking with your Euro venture 411A?

Funding completed , but the startup might be delayed just a few months due to...yes, it is true, shortage of qualified crew.
With the Hajj fast approaching, many are already spoken for...besides, with myself and the CEO (a very good friend, ex-Laker number two guy, marketing director) getting somewhat long in the tooth, we don't move as fast as in years gone by....:}

Still, I just received my printed business cards, so it must be a go.:rolleyes:

[MaxBlow]

Still, I just received my printed business cards, so it must be a go.


Sure thing!:}

Best of luck!

[Earl]

There is a shortage of crews starting to happen.
It seems now that if you are current and qualified more jobs than you can shake a stick at, all positions.
Problem is there are a few companies that are not paying the crew salaries or positioning tickets.
Think all the Tristar guys know of these companies and are avoiding them like the plauge.
One in particular out of Jordan that has changed his company name many times.

[fergineer]

Thats right Earl, no pay and above all pay that does not cover costs has kept me at bay, I will not put myself in a position that I have to pay for things, not even to keep flying. I would rather stay at home semi retired knowing where and when I will be tomorrow.

[411A]

I would rather stay at home semi retired knowing where and when I will be tomorrow.

Ain't that the truth.
I recall a few years ago, the Wife and I were returning from a short ocean cruise, and the very minute I turned on my mobile phone, there was a call from the Chief Pilot of a small company in the mid-east wanting myself post-haste.
I seemed one Captain had done a runner and they needed a replacement, pronto.
The natural question would be...why did the original guy do a runner?
In this particular case, he demanded (and received) a months pay in advance, then never showed.
I went on over and few for six weeks, and was promptly paid, as agreed....then signed on for an additional year (with days off/ticket home at my convenience) for an adhoc charter/sub-service contract.

The operators that don't pay are certainly now well known...although some will always say it's the crew members fault, for a variety of...reasons:rolleyes:

[Saturn]

Do you mean a shortage of L1011 quaified crew??? Because there are a few of us who have heavy jet/international time, 9000+ hours and would come fly the L1011 tomorrow. Who is advertising for Hadj crew and whom is the new L1011 op in Europe? Thanks.

[OldCessna]

The Dutch side appears to be Interstate Airlines with Nico Hemmer & Roberto Stinga.
Dont see any experience operating heavy iron such as the L1011, go figure?

[Earl]

Quote:oldcessna:
The Dutch side appears to be Interstate Airlines with Nico Hemmer & Roberto Stinga.
Earl: Sounds like a law firm.

[OldCessna]

Just heard that ex ATA L1011 -100 N194AT is being prepared for blast off out of Miami.

Going to Air Orange - Jordan.

Anyone know anything of who is behind them?

That leaves the L1011F sitting in MIA with damage by Wilma!

[The AvgasDinosaur]

That leaves the L1011F sitting in MIA with damage by Wilma!
Which one is that then. Is it a real "STC" freighter or a paper wonder plane?
Be lucky
David

[OldCessna]

That one is N306GB S/N: 1138 which is ex Arrow Air. STC cargo conversion.

Got banged up quite a bit in MIA by Hurricane Wilma.

[Earl]

The company is linejet.Not Orange jet.

[The AvgasDinosaur]

http://www.roswell-record.com/main.asp?SectionID=49&SubSectionID=112&ArticleID=15385
:{ Sad to report.
Be lucky
David

[OldCessna]

Hey Earl!

As its Friday could it be Lime Jet instead of Orange Jet?:ok:

[Earl]

Lemon Jet may be more in order as this ferry has been delayed several times.
:)

[OldCessna]

Are they taking the freighter in the package?

[Earl]

Have not heard anything about the freighter, just the one old ATA aircraft, scheduled to move next Tuesday if all goes well.

[411A]

LineJet should be viewed with some suspicion.
Although the specific airplane is in reasonable shape, the owners of the company have, apparently in the past, stiffed crew members at the end of the contract.
This is an old ploy to get the crew member to complete the flights then the company claims 'poverty' and refuses to pay.
The usual way around this problem is for the specific crew members to insist on the last months pay in advance.
LineJet has, at least with one individual I personally know, recently refused to do this...a bad omen.

In addition, the owners of the airplane have indicated that it will remain on the US register for a prolonged period.
There is nothing wrong with this of course, however for the airplane to be used in commercial service, a detailed lease agreement needs to be entered into with a foreign AOC holder, and so far as I know, this has not been done.
The old days of operating under FAR91D (as it was then known) are long gone.
One can expect that the FAA will watch this airplane quite closely, at least initially.

[Earl]

One good question if anyone knows, since this aircraft is N registered and will remain so for a while, then only FAA license will be allowed?
Also how does this affect the over 60 pilots?
Not really a concern for me but for some it may be.
That sure would cut it down to slim pickens!
Not many of us left and with no initial ground schools left, the only sim in the UK, if you are not a requal then there is no way for anyone to get initial training done.
I have heard that Delta no longer does this and Pan Am in Miami also has stopped.

[411A]

Also how does this affect the over 60 pilots?


Not a particular problem as the airplane will not be operated under 14CFR121.
There are quite a few pilots over age sixty operating large turbine-powered US registered aircraft not on a 121 certificate.
If the airplane is leased to a third party, and that party has an AOC allowing over age sixty pilots...'tis OK.

[OldCessna]

If its operating under FAA regs isn't there a very expensive Engine AD that needs to be completed?

[411A]

If its operating under FAA regs isn't there a very expensive Engine AD that needs to be completed?

If it retains US registration, then yes, shaft axial motion AD, due now...unless already terminated, of course.
This is why I suspect that the airplane, once it reaches its overseas destination, will revert to a non-US registration.
And, going just slightly further, I also suspect the reason the present owner only wants pilots/engineers with FAA licenses, is simply the fact that many others know the company/individual, and the suspect renumeration issues, whereas US pilots might not.

[OldCessna]

OK the plot doth thicken!

Orange air was a previous start up. It was being run by Mohsen Mughrabi ex- Star Air Ltd

The new outfit he's started is Line Jet.

As 411A says, it maybe best to get your money upfront.

[The AvgasDinosaur]

Quote from oldcessna
Just heard that ex ATA L1011 -100 N194AT is being prepared for blast off out of Miami.

Quote from another group posted yesterday
N194AT has just filed a flight plan. It is scheduled to
depart KMIA (Miami Intl) at 19:00 EDT heading for LPPT (Lisboa) for an
arrival at 07:14 GMT.

Expected route: VALLY1 VALLY PERMT A699 SUMRS R514 DRIBL A647 KWLTY 3800N 05000W 3900N 04500W 4000N 04000W 4000N 03000W 4000N 02000W ERPES UZ22 BUSEN UN870 LIS
Things are begining to move it would seem.
Be lucky
David

[ifonly]

Was due in Amman from Portugal this afternoon.

[Earl]

Maybe I am out of the loop here,
Just spoke with the guy a few minutes ago, everything is on hold.
The plane is still in MIA awaiting TSA clearance for the crew etc, whatever that involves.
It wont depart today, crew is not even in place yet.
Where are all of you getting this info from?
Sure is a lot of interest in this one, is there something we should know?

[ifonly]

There was a f/p in the system for it to fly from LPPT to OJAM today. Somebody must have forgotten to take it out if it's not in Portugal yet.

[GotTheTshirt]

FWIW
Luzair L1011 CS-TMP went from LIS to AMM a couple of days ago.
It went for A check and engine AD accomplishment.
Should have gone back yesterday.

[OldCessna]

Be interesting to see what Joramco are going to do with N194AT.
No engine AD's, several LLP's expired, missing or non funtional avionics...mmmm

[Earl]

FWIW
Luzair L1011 CS-TMP went from LIS to AMM a couple of days ago.
It went for A check and engine AD accomplishment.
Should have gone back yesterday.

Earl:
Anyone know the length of time involved to do these engine A/D's?
Understood it was a lengthy procedure.

[GotTheTshirt]

Earl,
To take the engine in the shop and do the mod takes about 8-10 days including test.
However the mod only affects the 02 module so you can put a spare 02 module in the shop and do the AD on the module.
Then you just swop the modified 02 module and they can so in 2-3 days.

I just talked to a buddy in Amman and he says that the Luzair L1011 is still there clearing some snags.

How is your ATA thing going ? My buddy in Amman did not know about it going there.

GTTS

[The AvgasDinosaur]

Quote from OldCessna
No engine AD's, several LLP's expired, missing or non funtional avionics...mmmm
I would have thought that was why they had sent her to one of the worlds centres of excellence on Tristar rejuvenation.:rolleyes:
Be lucky
David

[411A]

Air Universal, when they were operating TriStars, were straight forward.
Big bucks for those that kept up with the flow, and the salary was never late, ever.
Orient Air is another, nice folks, paid on time, with a large bonus.
EuroAtlantic is OK as well, so far as I know, always paid on time.
Luzair is the same, so I have been told.
Basem can be a problem, owes lots of folks back salary, which is why he can't find crew at the moment.
The TriStar 'world' is a small one, folks compare notes with regularity, no doubt about it.
Now, we are starting a new operation, funding complete, marketing guy in charge (ex-Laker number two) and I have every reason to believe it will absolutely succeed...especially with the folks I personally know, in charge.
The Tristar has a future in todays market, provided it is marketed correctly, in a niche market, and costs are kept in check.
Lets hope so, anyway.

After all, Lockheed made a superb aeroplane, provided it is maintained correctly.

[Angel`s Playmate]

Saw L1011 TT-DAE c/n 193N-1101 last week in TSN. ( Tianjin/Northern China). Still wearing basic Bcal . Idle on the cargo ramp.
Reg does not leave any room for speculations who is running it !:ok:

[AAL]

TT-DAE is definately same as one earlier reported sighted standing at Ndjamena (Chad) where it seems it is now registered after a short experiment on the Kyrgyzstan registry.

Also recently sighted in Estonia.

TT-DAE, yes there can be no confusion whi its registered to.

[Saturn]

Are there any left looking for work? Globejet never responds to e-mails! Can't really be many current and qualifed and if there are they'll be doing the Hadj for the money. I would love to fly L1011 so pm me won't you!

[The AvgasDinosaur]

Dear All,
N194AT has filed a flight plan. It is scheduled to depart KMIA (Miami Intl) at 19:00 EDT heading for LPPT (Lisboa) for an arrival at 06:29 GMT.

Expected route: VALLY1 VALLY NUCAR A699 SUMRS R514 FLORI R514 BDA NUMBR 3300N
06000W 3300N 05500W 3400N 05000W 3500N 04500W 3600N 04000W 3700N 03500W 3800N
03000W 3900N 02000W GUNTI UZ21 BUSEN BUSE7A.

What time GMT is 1900 EDT please, (I never was good at hard sums and adding up )
Hope it helps,
Be lucky
David

[The AvgasDinosaur]

Quote from 411A
Actually, Kitaro Kid, the airplane you noticed was a -100 series, and the old registration was EX-, not LX-...and yes we know all about this.
Pax operation, not cargo.
The 9G registration goes on shortly. It is a old TWA airplane, and quite a nice one, at that.
New charter airline that appears to be rather well funded, considering some of the previous efforts.
Is this the one from Accra?
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/1271973/L/
Some details on here http://cargoplusuae.com/
Hope it helps.
Be lucky
David

[Earl]

Actually Avgas it will be closer to 0300 GMT for N194AT
On another note:
Was told the old freighter in Miami is scheduled to be scrapped soon.
Looks in bad shape.

[CS-TMX]

N194AT is not showing anymore in Flight Aware :sad:

[CS-TMX]

It seems it took off, climbed to 33000' but returned back to KMIA:confused:

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N194AT
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N194AT/history/20070922/0506Z/KMIA/KMIA/tracklog

Any clue?

[The AvgasDinosaur]

N194AT has just taken off from KMIA (Miami Intl) en route
to LPPT (Lisboa) for an arrival at 12:38 GMT.


N194AT en route from KMIA (Miami Intl) has diverted to
KMIA (Miami Intl) for an arrival at 08:38 EDT.

Looks like they found a snag.
Here's wishing dry wings and soft landings for all involved.
Be lucky
David

[411A]

Is this the one from Accra?


That would be the one, yes.
It looks like it has found some work, so it might depart Accra, for Abuja shortly, providing all goes according to plan...and, the crews are paid on a weekly basis...weekly, due to the past problems with the owner.

[ferrydude]

"After all, Lockheed made a superb aeroplane, provided it is maintained correctly."

Agreed, but then it is hard to maintain correctly without adequate OEM support:rolleyes:

[The AvgasDinosaur]

Is N194AT the aircraft destined for Cyprus that started this thread?
Quote from OldCessna
Anyone heard anything about a new cargo outfit operating out of Cyprus utilising a L1011 freighter?
I thought that was supposed to be a freight operation. N194AT C/N 1230 is not as far as I am aware a freighter?
Please help me, its been a great journey through this thread I don't want to get lost now.
Thanks in anticipation.
Be lucky
David

[glhcarl]

ferrydude,

In responce to you comment on OEM support:

I spent over twenty years in L-1011 Product Support, retiring just five years ago. Lockheed still maintaines the L-1011 Customer Support Center where any TriStar operator can obtain technical assistance, spare parts support, service bulletins, ect. Since all the current L-1011 operators have obtained there aircraft used Lockheed charges for these services, first tier operators got technical support and service bulletins free, but the support is there if the operator chooses to partake of it. The real problem is that the majority of the current L-1011 operators are grossly underfunded and would rather not go to Lockheed for their support because of the costs involved.

To show that Lockheed was serious about L-1011 support they are currently in the process of moving the L-1011 Support Center to Marietta, Georgia along with all the support personnel.

[ferrydude]

Hmm, trying to understand how moving from Greenville, SC to Georgia is indicative of product support seriousness. Me thinks it has more to do with consolidation and cost cutting. Any idea what the number of staff dedicated to L10 product support is?

[OldCessna]

Lockheed subbed out the spares support off to an outfit in Ohio called Hi-Tech.

They basically have not got a clue about this aircraft. They have about $60m (list price) in L1011 spares but never seem to have the bits currently needed.

As for SB kits etc they are a total waste of time!

There's a few independent spares support companies out there that keep the right bits you need together with wheels, brakes and other "no go" items.

That small group supply the RAF (MOD) and the others with parts and work together to help operators out in a pinch!

I should mention there are a few operators who are CIA (Cash In Advance) due to non payment for AOG parts.

It's a small world and everyone knows who they are!

[OldCessna]

Avgas
N194AT was purchased from ATA and ferried to MIA. It was taken there to be stripped to repair the L1011F that got damaged by Hurricane Wilma.
That freighter was to be be part of the Cyprus freighter operation.
It now seems that N194AT got sold to someone in Jordan (previously mentioned) who intends to do the HAAJ with it.
The freighter at MIA is still in limbo.
The "Belgian" was involved with the Cyprus thing so its probably got complicated as it usually does with his deals. (I'm sure 411A can enlighten the readers) as to the Belgian outfit!


I thought that was supposed to be a freight operation. N194AT C/N 1230 is not as far as I am aware a freighter?
Please help me, its been a great journey through this thread I don't want to get lost now.
Thanks in anticipation.
Be lucky
David

[CS-TMX]

The "Belgian" was involved with the Cyprus thing so its probably got complicated as it usually does with his deals. (I'm sure 411A can enlighten the readers) as to the Belgian outfit!

Is it Lanta Aviation? I think they also have a TriStar 200F stored at Kavala. A friend of mine made part of the team who made some reactivation works on that aircraft a couple of years ago, but I think they gave up.

[The AvgasDinosaur]

Quote OldCessna
The "Belgian" was involved with the Cyprus thing so its probably got complicated as it usually does with his deals. (I'm sure 411A can enlighten the readers) as to the Belgian outfit!

I thought Mr Egli had a Liberian passport, but was born in Kinshasa. I am however always willing to learn.
Be lucky
David

[ferrydude]

Oldcessna, your description more closely matches what I have experienced and what I have been hearing from other operators. Most don't mind paying as long as there is some value to be obtained. The OEM support leaves a lot to be desired. Just ask any Jetstar operator!

[GotTheTshirt]

Old Cessna,
Just to correct you the Miami freighter N306GB is owned by Avtech (ex Arrow - ex Gulf) was going to the Guy who left MNG cargo to start another cargo airline in Turkey. As you say the ATA aircraft was bought to fix the damage caused by the hurricane.
N194 was a good aircraft but 22B's will getum everytime:uhoh:
I guess Earl will tell us what happened to that in th fullness of time!

Avgas. The Belgian was Lanta who had freighters ( ex Kitty Hawk) - Duane Egli was another operator who had pax aircraft pretending to be freighters:8.

I have to agree with Old Cessna - Lockheed take a week to answer Emails and they have NO structure support in house.
Sorry Carl but it went downhill after you left !:}
As for Hi Tech they sure have the wrong name there:)

The only saving grace is that the RAF need support for at least 5 more years!

[CS-TMX]

Again, scheduled to LIS:}

23-Sep-2007 L101/Q Miami Intl (KMIA) Lisboa (LPPT) 05:00AM GMT 12:35PM GMT Scheduled

[411A]

Latest news...acft returned to MIA with an oil pressure bypass light.
It is very bad news that an L1011 airplane is dispatched for a long overwater flight, out of storage, without the oil/fuel filters being changed, yet that is just exactly what transpired...silly fools.
One has to ask...when will folks learn?:rolleyes:

[CS-TMX]

411A thanks for the info;)

It seems N194AT did not take-off again!

[Earl]

Never was scheduled for today.
Trying for Monday afternoon if all goes well.
Except for the problem that caused the RTB the airplane is in really good shape.
Better than expected after sitting for many months.
Really a lot of people watching this,
Maybe someone can find us a coffee pot then!

[fergineer]

Earl, Good luck with all of this, hope the aircraft gets to its desired place of work and that the pay due will be waiting for you.....unless of course you got paid in advance!!!!!! I find it hard to believe that the aircraft was poorly serviced before its planned takeoff and is going to somewhere where a paper check will be carried out and the aircraft will be out there earning money.....I base that last remark on the last aircraft we got from there what a mess, the airline may have got up and running but for the problems with the aircraft. I think it is time for me to bid a pleasant farewell to all this hard work and retire here in NZ driving my boat and saving people at sea. Good luck to you and all fellow L1011 aircrew especially that FE sitting behind you, the times I wish I were there are getting less as I get older!!!!!
Cheers
Fergi

[CS-TMX]

I'm hoping to see N194AT @ LIS! I'm a TriStar freak :O That's why work in them, although not in the cockpit:ok:

[The AvgasDinosaur]

Curiously about Duane A. Egli. He is still shown as the registered owner of N3710G the A-26 that crashed at Biggen Hill 21st September 1980 killing Don Bullock and six others, didn't know about his warbird connection. I have never found a report on this no trace US NTSB no trace UK AAIB. Really odd considering the changes to display rules that followed from it I.E. Crew only on board (Sorry if this is a bit too far off topic. I will delete it if requested to do so.)
Be lucky
David

[The AvgasDinosaur]

N194AT has taken off from KMIA (Miami Intl) en route
to LPPT (Lisboa) for an arrival at 10:02 GMT.
Wishing her crew dry wings and soft landings.
Be lucky
David

P.S. CS-TMX hope you have your camera ready :ok:

[CS-TMX]

Hi!
I just saw it taking off at LIS to AMM at 13:38 local time (1238Z)! Excelent start-up sound and nice take-off performance. I saw it from where I leave (yes I live near the airport ;)) but I don't have powerfull camera and lenses as most spotters do. As soon as I see photos from other spotters I will post the links here:) N194AT was without logos and titles.

BTW, I work with this baby:

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/1257226/L/

:}

[CS-TMX]

First photos:

here (http://www.linhadafrente.net/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=101631#101631)

and here (http://www.linhadafrente.net/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=101633#101633).

[OldCessna]

Hi All
Earl is famous now he's on You Tube!
Landing & leaving Lisbon....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8drrSwRKeQ

[muh]

:ok::ouch::8 aircraft in QAIA ,just look at your L-1011 when they make it out of taba hope you not taking the yellow sub marine:sad:

[OldCessna]

Hi Muh (m.mughrabi)

Aren't you the new operator of the L1011 just ferried?

Didn't you used to fly with Star Air?

[snarfel]

David,
If you are lucky, you might reach Egli by phone on +32/69/648550. Normally you will get a French-speaking lady, telling "Mr. Egli est parti à l'étranger".
His address: rue Pont d'Eau, 9, B-7502 Esplechin/Tournai (Belgium).

[Flightwatch]

Saw N194AT sitting on bay 23 of the north apron at AMM this morning. All locked up and looking folorn and already gathering a fine coat of red dust.

[Flightwatch]

For those of you interested who have mailed me, as of 5am this morning N194AT was still sitting on the north pax apron miles from the hangers with no signs of activity. On the Joramco apron were the old Skygate machine and a pristine white -500 with no registration visible and there were the two scrappers in the dump, a Rich International aircraft and a white -500 with blue tail - this still has the wing engines on it.

Hope this helps you, Joramco seem to be busy on airbus aircraft with Kuwaiti and Ar India examples sitting outside and several others in the hanger that I couldn't make out in the twilight.

Flightwatch

[The AvgasDinosaur]

Quote from flightwatch
and a pristine white -500 with no registration visible
The white one is almost certainly N753DA c/n 1189 (PH-RST to be)
http://www.eucomairlines.de/prodlist/n753da_1.jpg
the old Skygate machine
Is probably JY-SGI c/n 1234
http://www.planepictures.net/netshow.php?id=276661
Any serious offers on the others?
Many many thanks to flightwatch for finding time to include us in his busy schedule, much appreciated sir.
Be lucky
David

[411A]

Unfortunately, SkyGate (now known as Sky Pearl) is in a pickle, due in large part to the CEO's inability to come to (what many would call) reasonable terms, with some entities.
Therefore, their aircraft (except possibly one) might remain idle for quite some time.

[Need to Know Basis]

Thanks for the heads up on Skygate. I received a quote from Skygate for Hajj flying based on 2 x L1011`s being made available. I had asked them if they are still under Kyrgyzstan / EX reg but no answer yet ? Do please tell me more before the ensuing faux pas.

[411A]

I had asked them if they are still under Kyrgyzstan / EX reg but no answer yet ? Do please tell me more before the ensuing faux pas.

Unfortunately, the are not in the best position to do the required flying, which is very unfortunate.
Look to the head shed for the answers...provided there are any forthcoming.

[GotTheTshirt]

Passing through AMM I saw the AT aircraft on th ramp.
I dont think that that is the low rent area:}

The White L1011 next to the Rich is the Globe Jet -500 ex Air Transat:)
Talking Globe Jet does anyone know if they started the Polish operation ??

The Skygate -250 is still sporting the Ex but who nows what it really is :E

Yes the 2 hangers ( including the NEW:ooh: one) looked pretty full.

There you go David :)

[CR2]

I can't claim any knowledge of the subject, but follow this thread with great interest.
2B2S: The post you deleted could be important to folks here. PM/email me if you want guidance.

[411A]

Word is out, crews have been screwed for salary, more to come soon.
Not the least bit surprised.
The folks in charge are rather well known and the TriStar world is quite a small one indeed.

[OldCessna]

I believe "Earl" was one of the crew! Hopefully he got some payment!

The owner of the aircraft is "MUH" (m.mughrabi)

This isn't the first time this guy has pulled this!

He made one post to which I sent below message then he disappeared!

Hi Muh (m.mughrabi)
Aren't you the new operator of the L1011 just ferried?

Didn't you used to fly with Star Air?

[nuisance value]

2Bad2Sad; Sorry to hear about you guys' bad experiences with the cheating Munsen

I was one of those 747 crewmembers mentioned that were stiffed 2 years ago but it was for a different company called Orange Air Services. They had bought an old PIA 7472 under Mughrabis direction, effectively, "sold as seen" by PIA (I did see the bill of sale in the end after much sifting through paperwork) and were hoping to operate the hajj with it. An aggreement had been made on the remuneration that had exactly the same trap sprung in the end as with you. It was clearly 100USD per day per diem for every day away from our own homes and not from Amman as was later claimed. This was clarified by all. We were driven about from one place to another with some time spent in Tel Aviv with the real boss of Orange Air, an Israeli. The airline was set up as Jordanian based rather than Israeli (for the amusing obvious hajj reasons) with a seirra leonne registration. The boss was in fact honest but had found himself compromised by Mughrabi. He had trusted Mughrabi to deal with sourcing an aircraft for his contracts and to worry about the maintenance, airworthyness and staff hiring etc. Mughrabi had promised him all sorts of wonders with this queen of the sky, an old 7472(I seem to remember 1974) which was out of date on a number of AD's etc. Before my time it had been sent to Ryiad for a C service I believe but returned having only been painted!!! This was before my time and is only what we found out by digging. What we do know for 100% is that it had not had the work done on the AD's (engine mounting bolts among them) and also that it had serious corrosion in the wings and around the bulk hold as marked out in red all over the upper surface of the wings by the guys in Ryiad. I found welded skin underneath the flaked up resin channel on the forward upper surfaces of the wing. I seriously doubt whether is is approved maintenance procedure to do this however, even if it were, as a TIG welder, I would have condemned the welds as poor work and so it certainly didn't roll out of seattle like that! There was also a hole approx a square foot in the upper surface of the wing tip that had been fixed with speed tape and sprayed!!! I believe from talking to other people that the guys in Ryiad only quoted to put right this mess and didn't actually touch the aircraft and I am in no way implicating them in any of this.

Mughrabi however was trying to persuade the crew that the aircraft was completely airworthy and that all the mandatories were in compliance. It's true state was found out later. On contacting Boeing, it was discovered that the AD's were not in compliance or had not been reported to them as so. Heated exchanges were had with Mughrabi regarding where the paperwork for the AD's was if it was true they really had been done. All he would provide us with was an A4 Orangeair letter headed word document unsigned with some new expirey dates. It seemed as if after leaving PIA on its sold as seen flight it magically became a clean aircraft without anyone signing to say they'd done any work. When asked who had completed the mounting bolts and where their paperwork was he would just change the subject and get angry. To top things off the virginal tech log was for a tristar and so the poor number 4 didn't seem to exist.

I did feel rather sorry for the owner of Orangeair who had been conned by Mughrabi into buying a heap of junk with the promise of easily getting it going for the hajj and beyond. Mughrabi claimed to be the head of ground maintenance and also a flight engineer and a First Officer. I suspect like everything else his documents would have been a lie. This man is a serious liar and a danger to aviation full stop. Crews should be vigilent of all the maintenace records this man has ever been involved with. If he had succeded in conning a team into flying an aircraft that was seriously unairworthy we all know the potential consequences. He even attempted to tell us how he could get round the serious avionics work that was required to be done and signed for by using unlicenced mechanics signing for dailys. He claimed we were unaware of how a JAR tech log worked etc. He talks a load of half truths mixed in with a lie to try to baffle one into accepting things. On a good note for the Seirra Leonne CAA, I also saw the emails from the guys there which were effectivly calling him a liar over the maintenance records. They were talking of suspending the AOC if he did not come up with proper evidence of the work done. We all bailed around this point so I don't know what else happened.

All this took a long time to discover with a lot of hanging around in the meantime. Even before we had found out that he was lying about the condition of the aircraft he was back tracking on the pay. Suffice to say we got less than what had been agreed with him. Of major concern is that we might actually have been conned by him into operating an aircraft illegally and unnaware of its very poor condition.

I am dismayed to hear that he has managed to get himself involved in any way whatsoever with aviation again. His name should most definately be on the EU ban list. Given all the talk here about the required mods and maintenace to these old tristars, I would advise anyone considering any involvement with this man to look very carefully at the records to be sure.

[Earl]

We were cheated severely on the pay by Muhsen Mughrabi.
Per diem and much more.
We were lucky to grab part of our salary and a ticket home.
But is this not the way they do things?
They claim a loss and expect you the cockpit crew to share in this loss for their stupid mistakes!
Who else would fly an empty Tristar to Nigeria without funds up front?
You go back home and when they call you back you insist on the back money they owe you, then when they pay they set you up for the next fall.
Told Mushen I would not be coming back, I hope he has problems finding crews and the FAA shuts him down!
We should have known, payment in advance and a round trip ticket home.
I have been burnt before and should have known better so I can only blame myself.
I had a very severe argument with him in the hotel about his lies and deceit.
The lobby was full of children and I would not even want my own daughter to see two adults acting in this manner so I thought it best to end the argument.
He is really trash, Basem Mitchel's partner in crime!
As far as the failed 747 adventure he stated to me that it was the Jewish friends that stole from them and caused the reduced salary as promised.
This one Moshen Mughrabi and the Riad guy is trouble, lying cheating ali baba thieves.
His down fall is that this airplane is registered in the USA, lets see what happens next!
But am happy to be back home and not having to buy my own ticket back.
What goes around comes back around, his day is coming very soon.
You don't get to cheat lie and deceive forever.
With the N registration rules have to be followed, these people think they can shister USA too, wont happen this time.
No kiss kiss on the cheek here for not following the regs its comply or goodbye!

[The AvgasDinosaur]

This sad tale keeps being repeated. Has an underpaid ripped off crew ever seized the aircraft in lieu of payment? Flown to somewhere friendly and started legal proceedings, or am I being naive ? Surely a multi million pound aircraft and tanks of fuel missing should get his attention, and focus his mind on why.
Be lucky
David

[The AvgasDinosaur]

I just noticed we got sticky status
Quote from 411A 23rd July
Who would have thought...
...that this would have gone on for five pages.
Imagine.
All this verbal activity about a thirty five year old aeroplane, that is operated in very small numbers....
TriStar, fondly remembered, never equaled.
Quote from CR2 23rd July
I've been following this thread with interest, mainly for my own education. The one thing that bugs me (as 411A has indirectly indicated) is that it's becoming something of an aircraft spotter's thread.
Let's keep it on a pro- level.
Quote from AAL
Dear Mr Mod,
Think this began to speculate possibilities about a new cargo outfit starting up out of Cyprus intending to use L1011 freighters and grew from there. The debate centred about the possibilities that this might entail seeings that L1011 freighters have become as scarce as hen's teeth.
The "spotting" bit was merely to identify which machines are standing around and might be available for such an intention, and what some's intentions under such circumstances (and opportunity) might be.
The history of the L1011 and the fate of the few last few remaining one's will allways interst enthusiasts. Thank you for tolerating us.
So a huge thank you to all the TRISTAR artisans who have provided input to this thread. It has been a huge learning curve for me and a fascinating insight. Thanks too to the moderators that have let it run, all 193 posts so far.:D:D::D I really do appreciate all your time and trouble. I just wish I owned a book publishers then I could (by way of commission) persuade some of you to write your autobiography, for the benefit of future generations.
Long may this thread continue, please. :ok::ok:
Thanks everybody, dry wings and soft landings to you all,
Be lucky
David

[CR2]

David,
I stickied this thread to serve as a warning to all. 411A's comment proved prophetic.

[AAL]

Thanks Mr Mod for tolerating my rantings too, and possibly for a slip here and there.

I too have learned a lot and certainly obtained some answers to some eluding questions and concerns. Sorry for dropping a name here and there.

Thank you also for some friends made in the process. Irony is - we still dont know who the new Cargo Outfit Out Of Cyprus is/will be - if ever anyway.

The L1011 remains one of the most remarkable and best aircraft ever built!

Be Lucky and Fly Safe! :ok:

[411A]

The L1011 remains one of the most remarkable and best aircraft ever built!

According to some yes, but.... it must be remembered that the Lockheed L1011 however superb in systems redundancy (certainly a fact, not disputed, nothing finer) it must be maintained properly, otherwise all is not good.
IF you have experienced ground engineers and knowledgeable pilots, it has no equal, with regard to superbly safe air transportation.
The devil is certainly in the details.

One has to actually fly the aeroplane for awhile to appreciate the careful thought that went into the design...a true gentlemens airplane.:ok:

[Earl]

Quote 411A:
According to some yes, but.... it must be remembered that the Lockheed L1011 however superb in systems redundancy (certainly a fact, not disputed, nothing finer) it must be maintained properly, otherwise all is not good.
IF you have experienced ground engineers and knowledgeable pilots, it has no equal, with regard to superbly safe air transportation.
The devil is certainly in the details.
Earl:
Yes you are correct in this 411A.
There is not many ground engineers left that can do this.
Current and qualified Tristar front end crews are becoming hard to find.
The biggest problem with these people is that they have to pay the crews and ground engineers correctly.
Pilots and ground engineers can do many things to help a company succeed.
But when the owners/managers decide they don't have to pay the very individuals that are the life line of the operation then the whole operation goes down.
If you promise a Captain 266 usd a day and a F/O and F/E 200 usd a day then pay it.
Everyone looked the other way on many issues that should not have happened, still they did not pay us correctly.
Take care of the crews and ground engineers, the company will go far.
Cheat and lie to us ,the company will fail.
Now there are 2 companies in Jordan to avoid, every time one of us works for these 2 it hurts everyone else in collecting the pay and drags the industry to a lower level!
Good companies that pay don't get contracts because these 2 still stay in operation.
Think sometimes we are our own worst enemy!

[Earl]

After doing some research on this aircraft from a very reliable source it is due a D check and the very expensive engine A/D due August 2006 has not been accomplished.
If they get caught it could spell some trouble.
Its starting to appear as the same snow job he did with the 747.

[Earl]

New Ad on climb to 350 looking for FAA licensed crew, 3 month contract.
Company name is Omarwings out of Amman Jordan.
No address or phone numbers.
Is this the same guy, just changed his name again?

[fergineer]

Earl,
Well done for keeping us updated in the happenings there in Jordan......If you have saved crew from going through the problems of no pay bad accomodation or just bad management then you have done your bit for today and for that I salute you sir......Together the L1011 fraternity will keep these thugs away from ruining our lives, I took one lot through a solicitor and won, not all they owed me but some but at least they realised not to mess with crew....That lot did not employ UK or FAA licenced guys any more as we kept the guys we knew in the loop, just as you are doing now. Lets just hope that anyone qualified to fly the L1011 reads these pages or if they dont and any of you guys out there hear that they may be tempted give them this thread to look at.
Once again well done.....
Fergi

[AAL]

Hi guy's, 17 001 hits and 199 posts and still no idea who the new L1011 cargo operator out of Cyprus is going to be.

Must be some kind of prune record! :D

[The AvgasDinosaur]

Just be patient, := you cant rush these start ups you know.
Be lucky
David.
P.S. A big :D:D:D thank you to all who have contributed to this fascinating thread.

[AAL]

AvgasDinosaur, perhaps the lesson herein is that we need a sticky permanent thread dedicated to spotting, discussing and learning more about one of the most magnificent aircraft ever built, their colorful history, some of those equaly colourful personalities behind them, and some of the colourful activities they have been involved in.

You are right, any new selfrespecting cargo outfit planning to fly out of Cyprus cant do so overnight!

Please bear with us Mr Mod, we will get there.:)

[CR2]

I'm also following with interest. Not because I'm 1011 crazy (lousy -F in my biased 747 is best opinion ;) ) but because all should learn/beware of what happened to some of the contributors to this thread (2B2S, Earl..)

Having followed this forum for around 10 years now (CR2 is my 2nd handle), I can say that this isn't the first time. 411A (amongst some others) has, over the years, advised caution with such "deals". I will say, that what he wrote here some weeks ago, was prophetic. Use the advanced search function...

AAL: Moderating is a fingertip feeling thingy. No hard and fast rules in terms of what is/isn't relevant. EG: Flight Engineer. They for all intents and purposes don't exist anymore - except on an older -Fs. So, Terms & Endearment or Freight Dogs?

[Techman]

...Flight Engineer. They for all intents and purposes don't exist anymore...
Thank you for that. I shall inform all of my colleagues that they don't exist.

It is always good to be told how things really are by people who don't know.:rolleyes:

[fergineer]

CR2 wash your mouth out with soap or the FE Mafiosa will be out looking for you....We still exist on all the classic 747 fr8ers, the L1011 DC10 DC8'sand others hidden by such wonderful Russian names so its certainly here in fr8 dogs thank you.

[CR2]

Guys, you know exactly what I mean. :)

[OldCessna]

Aircraft was moved from Amman down to Aqaba!
Aqaba - King Hussein Int´l Airport (AQJ/OJAQ)

[Eagle45]

Among others, N163AT & EX(?)102
http://www.staffhirecarib.com/default.asp?id=39

[Earl]

Actually the aircraft was flown from Kano to AQJ a few weeks ago, reason given was there was no room for parking in Amman.
The crew bused back to Amman.
The number given on the web for this Omar wings is +96265679047.
Which is a different number than what Orange air was using.
Still think since they are advertising for FAA crews that this may be connected to them some how.

[Earl]

Crews were sent mails today that the Lebanese CAA has pulled the rights to operate for Globejet Airlines located in Beruit Lebanon.
The three remaining aircraft -500's in the process of being sold as we speak.
All the crews have been offered positions with the new owners and company.
This is some bad news for Tristar crews as Globejet was known for paying the crews and also treating each and ever one of us like family.
Even after suffering a 4 million USD loss in South America flying for LAB they still payed the crews.
What is really amazing about this part of the world is that Globejet followed the rules, paid the crews and is faced with this problem by the Lebanese CAA.
But then again you rarely ever find honesty in the middle east, since the westerners handed control of the CAA to the locals all is corrupt there as in most middle eastern operations.
There aircraft were in much better shape and maintained than this last ferry I did to Amman with another company.
Which claims a Lebanese AOC.
Most of us have other jobs now as the market is really strong for 747 and some L-1011 crews.
Really a bad thing when we see a good honest company go down like this.
Many thanks to Globejet as this company will truly be missed.

[fergineer]

Sorry to hear that Globejet have now gone.....as you say that does not leave many good companies left in the market place for L1011 crews. Dunno how Luzair are going in Portugal, they took over the 2 Air Luxor aircraft doing ad hoc charter but they were only using Portuguese crews and the pay was in a downward spiral......Good luck to those still looking for work on the L1011

[TheChitterneFlyer]

Fergineer you old salt... what are you doing in NZ??? I did my lot with the two-sixteen lot, then BA, then KT, then onto Classics with BA and KA. Now back at Boscombe but shortly going to Qatar on a ground job with Steve P. Hope you're well mate...

JB

[Mr Grim reaper]

Hi there are 3 tristars that have been converted in victorville USA. Contact a company called SCA they may know who owns them

[OldCessna]

They are owned by the "Belgian" they are just parked at VCV

The "Belgian" collects them as memorabilia!

[The AvgasDinosaur]

As far as I can ascertain there are 3 genuine (i.e. STC) -200 Freighter conversions at Victorville c/n 1182, 1193 and 1211 all ex Connie Kallita and British Airways. N number enquiries reveal Wells Fargo Bank of Salt Lake City Utah as the owners.
Hope it helps
Be lucky
David
P.S. Just as a curious enquiry what is a full STC -200F worth these days? Anyone any idea, please

[411A]

As far as I can ascertain there are 3 genuine (i.e. STC) -200 Freighter conversions at Victorville c/n 1182, 1193 and 1211 all ex Connie Kallita and British Airways. N number enquiries reveal Wells Fargo Bank of Salt Lake City Utah as the owners.

Equipment trust, for the non US owner...Lanta Aviation/Trilan One Corp, Monaco.
Just as a curious enquiry what is a full STC -200F worth these days? Anyone any idea, please

Very little...Lanta/Trilan took a bath with their purchase. Only one in service now, or rather, about to be in service.



Serves the CEO right, the silly fool.

[MersonFreekicks]

Sorry if this one has already been mentioned, I tried to follow the thread from the begining but got lost...:ugh:

http://www.eucomairlines.de/prodlist/msn198.html

Cheers

[T J Johansen]

Curiously about Duane A. Egli. He is still shown as the registered owner of N3710G the A-26 that crashed at Biggen Hill 21st September 1980 killing Don Bullock and six others, didn't know about his warbird connection. I have never found a report on this no trace US NTSB no trace UK AAIB. Really odd considering the changes to display rules that followed from it I.E. Crew only on board (Sorry if this is a bit too far off topic. I will delete it if requested to do so.)
Be lucky
David

Egli used to be involved with the Confederate Air Force back in the old days. He did rebuild P-51 Mustang wings from scratch, ferried a DH Mosquito from the UK to the US in 1971 (and an Anson I understand), and in 1972 recovered a Hurricane from swamp waters near Gander, Canada. He was also instrumental in getting the CAF their B-29. Add to that the fact that he was the late John Hawke's co- pilot on the B-25 camera ship for the movie "Battle of Britain". As for the A-26, I haven't found out the exact story of ownership. Could be that he was just the "registred owner" in order to maintain N# on the a/c.

T J

[PH-SCP]

Two of the former GlobeJet TriStar's found a new home. Credits go to Skyliner....

http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/7065/01xtbrkwn8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[SWBKCB]

From the Skyliner website -

"Kallat Elsaker Air has taken over already two Lockheed TriStar 500 of Libanese GlobeJet which recently decided to finish its business"

Two Tristars with XT- regs pictured at Burkina Faso Ouagadougou (OUA) on 03.12.07 - presumably Hajj-ing??

[Eagle45]

Link to photo
http://www.skyliner-aviation.de/viewphoto.main?LC=nav2&picid=4265

[Sleeping Freight Dog]

http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=1301485&size=L&TopOfYest=yes
Lets see if these photos work.
Here are the aircraft in question.

[SWBKCB]

Skyliner now has a shot of N194AT (forward fues only visible) at Jeddah with the following caption:

"Bourtuqalieh Air operates this former American Trans Air TriStar, having been ferried in September to Amman, during the Hajj on behalf of Nigerian Med-View Airline. "

[The AvgasDinosaur]

Here it is
http://www.skyliner-aviation.de/viewphoto.main?LC=nav2&picid=4273
Hope it helps.
Be lucky
David

[OldCessna]

Quote:
"Bourtuqalieh Air operates this former American Trans Air TriStar, having been ferried in September to Amman, during the Hajj on behalf of Nigerian Med-View Airline. "

Wonder when they did the "D Check", Engine AD, Landing Gear overhaul, RAT S/B and all the other stuff it needed?

Cant imagine any FAA pilots touching it!

[Earl]

There are few retired major airline types that are doing it.
Claim that if they don't know about the overdue D check and engine A/D then its not their problem.
Bet they did not operate like this in the USA!
:ugh:

[411A]

Word on the grapevine is that another TriStar has a slight problem in Douala, specifically 9G-BSM with high vibs on number two and another unspecified problem with number one.
Strangely enough (or maybe not) many of these operators do not embody any type of long term storage program when these airplanes are between 'assignments' and of course on the first couple of flights (or in this case, one) severe problems develop.
High vibes on number two is usually cured with a fan clapper lube and/or trim balance of the fan, but some don't know how to do this either.
What a shame.

[Earl]

This is all too common with these RR engines.
Vibrations over 2.5 both channels and everyone just wants to pull the throttle back when the procedure is to shut it down
Even a caution written in the emergency procedures saying not to reduce the throttle in attempt to reduce vibration when over 2.5.
194 is a perfect example of this.
Even when many sparks were reported coming from the front of number 3 along with high vibs over 2.5 Mughrabi and ground engineers claimed just an indication, no need for the crew to shut it down.
The inner cowl at the attrition lining looked like a ring of fire at night.
The lube had been tried twice already, it needed balancing, but no time for this according to him.
What a winner this one is!
He wont be in business long with thinking like this.
Just goes to show that not only does he cheat the crews on salary, he also cheats the system on operations, D checks engine AD's etc.
The FAA only gave him a ferry permit to operate MIA AMM, no pax.
He tries to use this and say the FAA certified the aircraft.
For some 3rd world countries this might be believable because of the N registration.
Now he thinks no one is watching him and can do as he pleases.
He pulled the same tricks on the 747.
With the Tristar simulator in the UK out of service now due to a fire several weeks ago, just wonder how many of his crews are current, maybe just on paper, like his aircraft.
Hope the Saudi PCA is on his backside soon.

[fergineer]

Remember once being asked whilst at the sim if I would mind sitting in as the eng for a foreign company to get all their crews up to date. 5 crews one two hour sim slot......I declined the offer did not want anything to do with it.
Who are the crews that are flying these aircraft, as Earl says where are they getting their checks done. Regard to the other checks, they will be given a paper check and sent on their way. Sad end to a very well loved aircraft.

[rewfly]

Earl, have you thought about letting the FAA know about this, sounds to me that this guy is getting out of hand.

[GotTheTshirt]

Rewfly
Probably too to late now he has moved it onto the Nigerian register :*

What amazes me is the Saudi PCA going round the Jeddah ramp ramp nit picking minor non airworthy defects on some aircraft and letting this cowboy in with major maintenance descepancies !!
Money talks I guess:ugh:

[OldCessna]

Hopefully I'm not out of order, but you would think with all the "journo's" that troll this website one of them would pick this story up as a very hot story!

I know life is cheap in Africa but this is really amazing in this day & age!

[AAL]

As an African, who has had my run in with the burocracy in Nigeria before, it is difficult to believe that Nigerian CAA which is under international scrutiny after all the spate of crashes in Nigeria not long ago, will allow this timex machine (overdue for D-Check?) to be registered in Nigeria.

This situation is worth following up. If anyone knows, as Got The T Shirt (GTTS) professes, then surely someone or GTTS can provide the registration number.

I am somehow not convinced the Nigerians will register, or has registered this aircraft. Heard early in the week that the guy was desperately shopping around for an AOC and Registration of convenience.

Where's Zazoo and the other Nigerian guy's? Surely they can shed some light. Otherwise please post details of reg change.

Fly safe!

[411A]

Yours truly was personally told by a senior Nigerian CAA official last year that no L1011 would ever be allowed on the Nigerian civil register.

Of course, money talks, BS walks...:rolleyes:

[Earl]

This is the first I heard of the registration change.
But I do know when we flew this aircraft from MIA that it was overdue a D check and the engine A/D's were not accomplished and a FAA ferry permit was issued.
Mughrabi claimed that he would get all this accomplished in Amman with Joramco.
There was no supporting paperwork when we operated a few days later to Kano and back, this guy is the biggest B/S artist I have ever met.
He again claimed that the D check was accomplished.
When asked about the paperwork he claimed it was not the operating crews concern and all was accomplished.
He stated the FAA and ATA made a mistake in their calculations of the time the D check was due.
Sorry but everyone knows this is 15 months and the engine A/D;s is a very expensive task on these 522;s, thats why they are so cheap now.
I also confirmed this with the ATA maint. and these items had not been accomplished, D checks, engine A/D etc when they parked the aircraft in MIA.
This was after the non payment issue in the hotel.
If he would have paid correctly people would not be questioning this operation.
Still never the less this aircraft should not be in operation unless all is complied with.
Will be in Jeddah in a few days and will provide the registration number if I see the aircraft, will also be pursing past salary issues and talking with the saudi PCA.
But we all know that money talks in Nigeria, not hard to think it is registered there now.
If this can be proved then the Bank of Utah needs to be notified next as they are the registered owners of the aircraft along with the insurance agency.
This guy need s to be shut down permanently.

[AAL]

Earl, dont have to be a prophet to predict that after a few good paying Hajj flights this season will dump the plane somewhere, probably crew also, and the party who will have to carry the cost/loss is going to be the Bank of Utah.

The alleged situation and condition of this aircraft raises serious concerns, irregularities, and probably in conflict with criminal let alone aviation law:

1. Sure Bank of Utah would not have financed if they were aware that the machine was going to be operated outside manufacturers and international aviation laws and requirements. Improbable that the specific bank would have financed an aircraft if it is not going to be operated on the N register in compliance FAA requirements, let alone some dodgy registry of convenience.

2. Does it carry bona fide insurance policies and coverage. No insurance company in the world will insure an expired aircraft that is going to be paraded and operated as an airworthy machine, due to increased risk - in all probability if misled in the process any possible claim will be declined. Effectively it then has no legitimate insurance.

3. Every declaration and application for clearances and overflight permissions are done fraudulently as paperwork is "cooked" and not in order.

Earl, if you should encounter her, advise reg and even post photo. Can imagine that some folks in Nigeria will be very interested.

[411A]

1. Sure Bank of Utah would not have financed if they were aware that the machine was going to be operated outside manufacturers and international aviation laws and requirements. Improbable that the specific bank would have financed an aircraft if it is not going to be operated on the N register in compliance FAA requirements, let alone some dodgy registry of convenience.


Ah, sorry, AAL, you are misinformed.

The Utah bank concerned did not finance the airplane.
It was purchased with cash.
What they provided is an Equipment Trust.
With this arrangement, a foreign national (IE: not a US citizen) can own a US registered civil aircraft, which would otherwise not be possible.

[OldCessna]

AAL "Can imagine that some folks in Nigeria will be very interested"

I would doubt it! Somebody probably got paid there!

The only way this thing will get tripped up is at the Saudi end with a ramp check and the Saudi's having some info as to what to look for!

411A is right about the bank thing!

[fergineer]

Old Cessna,
Doubt that there are remotely interested. As long as someone is bringing in the Pilgrims that is all they are worried about. Remember in 2001 we blew an engine as we turned onto the runway, spat bits out the back which broke a couple of runway lights. We shut the engine down and taxied back in. There was hell to play, interviews etc we were kept on the aircraft with all the pax till the initial paperwork was done. They then let us get off and we took the pax and another aircraft to the destination.....all in a crew duty day....not.....The aircraft was then 2 engine ferried under the noses of the Saudis without their permission infact they had said we were not to do it.It was not me that was for sure. We still had to operate into Saudi but there were no problems with the authorities. If they were that concerned they would have done something!!!!!! They will not do any thing that will screw up the Pilgrims end of story,

[Earl]

Did not see Boutuqalieh here in JED tonight.
We operated the last inbound haj flight from Manila, now its outbound starting in a few days.
Only Tristar I seen at the Haj terminal was one of the ex Globejet ones.
Hopefully he is shut down already.

[camilo1]

Hi

The user by the name of flytristar in Youtube has posted a video taken from the inside of the Luzair Tristar, in that video you can see the ex-ATA machine parked in Jeddah.

Regards

Camilo

[CS-TMX]

Hi

That's me. The date of the movie is 12/12/2007.

I saw that TriStar two or three times at Jeddah.

[CS-TMX]

You can see more photos of JED in:
nauticalmiles (dot) ******** (dot) com

[camilo1]

Hi CS-TMX

Didn`t know it was you, thanks for the great Tristar videos, I see that you are one of the lucky few who can still fly the beautiful machine.
By the way, great blog, very informative and great pictures.

Regards

Camilo

[glhcarl]

CS-TMX,

Could you please verify that the active controls was inoperative during the takeoff video?

[CS-TMX]

No, they were working.
In the original file one can see that the outboard ailerons were set upwards even during taxi.
http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/6321/hajj2007180pf4.jpg
Best regards:ok:

[glhcarl]

CS-TMX,

Thanks. Thought I saw something, but after looking at the video a second time it cleared up.

Carl

[OldCessna]

Is apparently grounded at JED after his tires were discovered to be showing canvas, worn through etc!

Hope they start looking harder at the aircraft!

[411A]

Sooner or later Capt Berenji finds out....:}

[Earl]

Tires were showing canvas months ago in Amman.
A very detailed closer look is needed here.
Operating an aircraft overdue D checks and A/D's is just an accident waiting on a place to happen.
They must have parked this over by the hangers as I did not see it at the Haj parking or the normal Saudia ramp.
We start outbound haj on the 22nd, will look for it then.

[Earl]

Seen the old Globejet Tristar at the haj parking for more than 10 days.
has not moved, anyone know what is going on with this new company?
Have not seen the old 194AT here at all, outbound haj started on the 22nd.
Hope he is finished!