SIA Cargo: Divorced and Improved??

[portquartercv67]

Over the past 3-4 months, I have heard the following comment made by fellow expat captains to make me actually take notice: "things really have gotten better" since we have separated from mainline. I should have asked then and there what they think has gotten better but didn't. So I am asking now?

There have been some changes for sure since SIAC has started to go it alone, but I am not really sure that all are for the better. Let's see, a quick calculation of my average monthly hours 6/06-12/06 was 44 and from 1/07-6/07 42. So no real change there. COP disruptions about the same.

On the plus side, standby duty on layovers has gone away and the office is very accomodating to requests to leave slip stations. Communication from the office has leapt by leaps and bounds, even if what we are hearing may not be to our liking. At least we are hearing something. There has been a lot of communication from both management and the pilot scheduling committee about new "soft scheduling rules". All well intentioned and I really do appreciate the hard work of these fellow pilots. However, I as the end user have seen my COP quality decrease. How? More minimum rest layovers, more double sector duty days. The concept of getting rest with an added captain looks good on paper but the actuality is we are working harder and longer and I am more tired on average than I was before.

Added to the stress level of the fatigue factor induced by the back to back short rest layovers and back side of the clock flying etc... is the added stress of flying now with absolutely green FOs. Now that we are separate from mainline, we don't get the same level of experience in the right seat as we used to with the mainline first officers. My last three COPs were with FOs who had just completed line training with maybe 300-400 hours total in their log books. Never been to any of the stations on the COP etc...Reminds me of my military single seat pilot days. I'm basically on my own.

Would be interested to hear how others feel. Am I missing some of these improvements? Oh, almost forgot. The huge profit sharing check just deposited last week. Somehow doesn't make me any less tired or my job any easier. But airline managements the world over know that pilots are basically all whores. Give us enough spending money and we will overlook the quality of life/quality of work issues.

PQ

[BANANASBANANAS]

Fair comment I think PQ.

I have just come back from a 20 day COP and must say that I don't feel as tired as I expected I would. Seventy hours flying in 20 days away, and 12 OFF days now that I am back are quite nice too. I acknowledge that the idea of 20 days away will not suit everyone.

We had 5 multi time zone change, back of the clock, sectors in the first 5 days and, provided you just flew, ate and slept for 5 days, it worked out surprisingly well from a fatigue management viewpoint - and saved me a fortune in bar bills!

Green F/Os I don't mind at all. They are generally keen, have studied hard, keep me on my game by asking questions, and you can't blame them for a lack of experience.

I can live with most of the day to day operation now but I would like to see a significant per diem increase, at least $1000 pcm increase in housing allowance, 42 days Annual Leave and concessionary (free) travel for self + spouse on the freighter.

[portquartercv67]

BB

I am happy to hear that the COP changes have not affected you negatively. Perhaps you have not had the pleasure yet of being DC on the Osaka turnaround followed by min rest in SIN before departing on another two sector day start of a COP.

Yes, the very low experience FOs that we fly with now are not responsible for their lack of experience and the position the company puts them in. The system is and the system is flawed. If safety were paramount to the company, they would crew us with experienced First Officers. And they could easily attract them by a simple change in policy: institute an upgrade program.

Perhaps some enjoy regaling the young eager FO with tales of their vast experience. Perhaps others like imparting flying tips and techniques. I am not trained as an instructor. I don’t want to be an instructor. I am not being paid the S$1000/month override that the instructors get. All I really want is a crewmember sitting to my right that has competent handling skills, air sense and one that will have the experience to recognize when something is not right and most importantly not hesitate to say so.

Not receiving the $7,000/mo PPA as advertised stings even more now.

PQ

[BANANASBANANAS]

No KIX Double Crew turnarounds follwed by min rest yet so I can't really comment on that other than to say it doesn't look very nice.

Most of our experienced First Officers are SAS guys and they will start to leave in droves from early 2008 when their contracts are up and there are no command courses for them. I have yet to fly with one that isn't ready for a command course and I think your point is well made.

Green F/Os? - Agreed; it's not our place or obligation to teach any F/O anything - thats for the LIP's - but my last F/O who was fresh out out of training sure taught me a few things.:ok:

[BlunderBus]

70 hours in 20 days away 'not feeling tired as you expected'...i'm just back from hkg-lax-hkg-lax-hkg in 7 days with 60 hours....how do you think that feels??...:rolleyes:

[BANANASBANANAS]

Was that rostered or due to delay/disruption? Sounds awful!

[ArkPilot]

A year ago you couldn't find a positive post about Singapore Cargo due to lack of flying. Now everyone wants to play "I can top that!"

"Be careful what you wish for..." comes to mind.

Or more appropriately, "What kind of cheese would you like with that w(h)ine?"

[BANANASBANANAS]

No complaints from me about the increase in flying hours. A few other issues remain to be be addressed but the hours are just fine.:ok::ok:

[ArkPilot]

Concur!:}

(now I think it's ten characters):ugh:

[newfreighter]

PQ 67,

ARE YOU SAYING THE F/Os IN SINCARGO ARE INCOMPETENT AND YOU ARE THE ONE MAN PILOT ALL THE WAY.

I SURE WOULD LIKE TO FLY WITH YOU ONE DAY TO SEE HOW GOOD YOU ARE.

TO MY KNOWELEDGE MOST OF THE F/Os HAVE VAST KNOWLEDGE OF THE AIRCRAFT WITH MORE FLYING HOURS ON THE 744 COMPARING TO SOME NON-TYPE RATED DECs AS THESE F/Os HAVE HAD LONGER PERIOD OF TYPE RATING SIM TRAINING,LINE TRAINING(LT1/LT2) AND MORE BASE/LINE CHECKS.

IS NOT FAIR TO BRAND THEM 'GREEN F/O', GRADE THEM INCOMPETENT AND MENTIONED YOU ARE ON YOUR OWN WHEN FLYING WITH THEM.YOU ARE ACTUALLY ACCUSING THE WHOLE SIA TRAINING SYSTEM AND THE CAAS TESTING SYSTEM THAT HAD TRAINED AND TESTED THEM, THE SAME ORGANISATIONS THAT HAD TRAINED YOU AND TESTED YOU.

IF THEY ARE NOT QUALIFIED AND CAPABLE, I DONT THINK YOU ARE.

Easy, Tiger........ he wasn't saying that. Squid

[skiesfull]

Newfreighter,
Having read the original posting by portquartercv67, I do not see any mention of incompetent F/O's, merely inexperienced ones. Do not turn this thread into another Captain Vs Co-pilots - it is not warranted. I have found the ex-ab initio co-pilots to be keen,knowledgable and respectful. However, SIA is the only airline in the world to put such pilots directly onto B744's and B777's. The simulator and line training is designed to bring the trainee up to the minimum standard required by the CAAS and implemented by SIA. It is not designed to turn out experienced F/0's to line flying. Experience can only come with time and assistance from the Captains and other F/O's that the new co-pilots are crewed with. I have nothing but scorn for those line pilots who feel that it is not their 'job' to help the development of junior pilots and it is best left to instructors who are paid extra. Every Captain has a duty to help improve the competence and experience of their co-pilots and every co-pilot should be prepared to give every assistance to his/her Captain in order to achieve a safe flight.
It is good to hear that the Cargo guys feel that their 'lot' is improving, albeit little-by-little. Perhaps there is light at the end of the tunnel yet?

[Left Coaster]

Thank you "skies"
A little judicious reminder that we are supposed to encourage and explain, not treat with disdain. Experience is only gathered by...well...experiencing! (Sort of makes sense to me) If we treat these new pilots with respect and make an effort to treat them as a big part of the crew, they'll learn to sort out the good from the bad, and learn the techniques of daily line flying. To those who would not want to have a smart and efficient crewmember with them in the flight deck...back to charm school with you!;) Seems like a lonely job with no one to talk to on those long crossings...
Cheers
LC

[BANANASBANANAS]

Lest Skiesfull's eloquent posting was aimed in my direction may I kindly draw the distinction between teaching (a specialist qualification which I do not hold in SIA Cargo) and the more general responsibility of the commander to develop the skills and experience of his crew iaw page 2.24 of the FAM which I faithfully observe.

But teaching? No Sir! Haven't done the course!:ok::ok:

[skiesfull]

DoubleBANANAS,
No it wasn't aimed specifically at you. The development of F/O's doesn't require a Captain to be 'trained', some if not most of the official training is more form filling than training. However, a Captain that takes an interest in his/her F/O's development, will impart more useful information and experience, than 4 hours of simulator time in which both trainees know exactly what is about to happen, before the instructor presses the appropriate button! I learnt more from line crews, about safe and efficient flying, than I did from any instructor-pilot. All I am saying is give these inexperienced pilots the best advice that you can to improve their experience levels, after all, they may be flying the aircraft you are 'paxing in' and you may want to feel comfortable that you have helped further their skills!!

[BANANASBANANAS]

Thanks,

I think most of us prefer just to develop the skills and experience of our new F/Os by leading by example - such as doing the walkround in the rain when the F/O is PF, making it clear that, as PM, it is my job to fill in the CFP, VR, complete the ACARS, make the tea etc etc - I understand there are still cases of "You can have the sector provided you also do all the paperwork and take the radios." :ugh:

An informal, friendly chat in the bar post flight also helps more than some might think.

I am not sure whether it is a result of ab initio training or culture but I spent a goodly part of my last (very long) COP trying to get my (very capable, very keen and very inexperienced) F/O's to refrain from addressing me as "Sir" - all very polite and respectful but not conducive to producing a Flight Deck atmosphere in which I can reassure the F/O of his value to the operation and mildly amusing when I am buying him a pint.:)

I will refrain from commenting on the appropriateness or otherwise of putting 300 hour pilots in the RHS of a B744, but it is a very big step for pilots of limited experience to take and they deserve a lot of credit for getting their second stripe. However, whilst I will render all possible assistance to our new F/O's, I do feel the company needs to keep a close eye on experience levels in the RHS. The uncertainty regarding command courses as a significant number of our more experienced F/Os enter the last few months of their contracts could cause an experience vacuum in the RHS.:ok::ok:

[richie-rich]

very interesting post. i am happy to see the professionalism that is maintained by the Captains and FO that guys like me, the new ones, are likely to be flying with.

A captain is there to help you through your experience building, thats how I see myself in few months from now. Hours would come automatically.

Richie

[Mink]

Any truth to the rumor of SIA Cargo and Cargo 360 merging? I guess the fact that it's a rumor answers my own question about "truth", but you get my drift. Just curious...

[ArkPilot]

I think you have your rumor airlines names transposed. The rumored partner for Cargo 360 is SAI (Southern Air) NOT SIA.

Sorry to burst your bubble.

[Mink]

Ahhh, that explains it...

Thx.

[Sand Pilot]

I must say it is refreshing to read a thread where all participants conduct themselves with the utmost professionalism. Most of the threads on PPRuNe disintegrate into childish mud slinging. If this is how you all conduct yourselves here it must be a pleasure to fly with you on the line. You all have a good point!

My question: Is my experience enough for RHS at SIAC? TT2405, 630 >20ton jet & 2005 multi-crew jet. If you are flying with pilots with only TT400, surely I must have a good chance!

:ok:

[portquartercv67]

NEWFREIGHTER

I am sorry that you took my posts as a personal affront. It was not my intention. Perhaps I should clarify. The issue is not how good a stick one is. It is about having a baseline of competence with flying skills and seat of the pants airsense that can only be acquired through experience. Knowing how many static wicks are on the airplane wil not prevent hard landings, over-rotations on takeoff, over-rotation flare after touchdown, poor line up control on takeoff/landing, inability to fly a stabilized visual approach with just VASI, poor crosswind landing control and non-standard radio comm; all issues I witness on a regular basis now. I don't think anyone can dispute the fact that experience in both seats make for a safer operation.

I look forward to flying with you. Just don't expect me to do the walk-around when it's raining!!

PQ

[newfreighter]

PQ,

likewise,i have seen people on the left seat doing what you have mentioned above and couple of times tried to kill the rest of the people onboard if me/other crew have not stopped what there were doing.

what say you let's forget it and move on?

cheers!

[BANANASBANANAS]

Now that we are all friends again, does anyone know if an increase in housing allowance is likely in the near future?

I have heard a couple of rumours and understand that something might be announced fairly soon.:ok:

[ULH Extreme]

Bananass, Pls read your contract. If there is any increase [ highly unlikely] that`s all you`ll get, which is not enough to cover the % increase in rents and remember it`s taxed. You still don`t understand them. By the way, heard all 747 overseas bases closing down end sep, goodbye guys, you had it good.
Extreme

[ArkPilot]

Uh? Excuse me, last time I checked cargo did not have overseas bases.

Perhaps you should do your homework before you try to stir up controversy with your second post.

Better yet, why didn't you do your homework before you posted the first time.

Perhaps you would like to explain your reference to a "contract position"?

[BANANASBANANAS]

Ok, Lets try that one more time shall we?

Now that we are all friends again, does anyone know if an increase in housing allowance is likely in the near future?

I have heard a couple of rumours and understand that something might be announced fairly soon.

[CargoBoy]

Yes, rent and house prices have increased in the past 1 year.
Rental allowance should be adjusted but only if the local guys get a corresponding pay increase too. Afterall, local pilots need a roof over our heads too.

Alot of the expats live in luxury condos where rent has increased beyond their reach. Perhaps they ought to consider staying in HDB flats.

I believe 3000SGD is enough to rent any HDB flat with cash to spare.

Company doesn't owe expats a lifestyle of the rich and famous.

CargoBoy

[Left Coaster]

I really hope you're kidding! Do you actually think that your statement makes sense? When I get your CPF and other goodies that the expat boys don't get, and when you can tell me that 900 sq feet of condo housing four family memnbers, at $6000 per month is luxury, and when you can tell me where my income tax money goes, we'll be on even ground! Incidentally, if you read the paper, you will find the the greed level of 90 percent of the landlords here. Places are increasing up to 100% overnight! Luxury? I call it thievery!
Back over to you brother...:oh:

[BANANASBANANAS]

Expatriate Summary Terms and Conditions states:

Housing Allowance: Subject to revision if there are significant changes in market rentals.

What does your contract state Cargo Boy?

[CargoBoy]

BANANASBANANAS.

My contract does not give me any rental allowance.

Housing Allowance: Subject to revision if there are significant changes in market rentals.

The above statement in your contract is quite subjective. Is the revision pegged to any indices? If not, you just signed a contract that has very little legal binding as to how much increase in rental allowance the company owes to you.

If otherwise, why not start legal preceedings and make SIA Cargo pay up?

900 sqare feet condo for SGD6000? Its a free market. If you owned a condo and everyone is charging that rent, wouldn't u?

Why not consider a HDB 5-rooom flat 1150 square feet for 2000 dollars? Bigger and 1/3 the cost.

I know some individuals who are ranting about rent increase even though they have purchased property and renting it out at similar high prices. Ring a bell?


CargoBoy

[Left Coaster]

Sorry, the buy and rent deal doesn't ring any bells, not with me anyway. You say that expats live in luxury and you don't, and you are right it might be choice. Tell me then, where ARE the good places to rent at lower than market rates? In the place we live now we are treated as a minority (and rents are doubling over night) and THAT really makes it fun! Would that be the same behaviour we can expect at an HDB flat? You tell me...
My other statement was simple...how about the CPF? You get it when you retire...I don't. It's worth WAY more to you at the end of your career with SIA than a legislated allowance for expats. It something that the company has to pay...
So where is the level field? You get to keep your money at the end of your career, I have to save what I can for the end of mine, I prefer not to leave all of mine here cause rents are too high...
Cheers

[BANANASBANANAS]

Cargo Boy,

If some business minded individuals are prepared to put their money where their mouths are and speculate then please don't begrudge them a good result in the good times because you would sure as hell be laughing your head off if the property market had gone the other way - whilst no doubt demanding that housing allowance be cut as they are stuck with high repayments. That is the risk some people chose to take.

I thought Singapore was supposed to be the epitome of the free business world - or do you think that should not apply to expats?

As LC quite rightly says, we get no CPF and have to provide for our futures when our work here is done.

Your last post smacks a little of the green eyed monster. If you reread it carefully, you appear to agree that "if market rate for a 900 sq ft unit is $6000 and everyone else is charging it wouldn't u?" yet you then appear to try to exclude expats from the "everyone" part of your sentence.

As you also quite rightly say..."it's a free market."

Perhaps you might consider devoting your energies towards improving your own situation in that free market rather than casting envious glances at your perception of other people's situations.

And no, "Buy to rent out" does not apply to me either - though I applaud the business acumen of those to whom it does - local and expat!

Cheers.

[CargoBoy]

Not attempting to begrudge anyone from making wise business decisions and making a pile from their investments. I just feel these individuals shouldn't then be complaining about rental when they don't even rent in the first place.

Did you purchase any property in Singapore?

My main point is to lower ones expectation of the property they can now afford. Rental prices a few years ago was rock bottom. The price increase though high are just beginning to match 1996 levels.

Why not move further away from the city? Why not rent HDB?

Why not take legal recourse if you feel cheated?

Do you honestly feel the CPF scheme is superior? If so, why not apply for PR and go on local terms? I have a feeling the company will gladly accept that proposal.

CargoBoy

[BANANASBANANAS]

If our retirement planning was based on living in Singapore then that is exactly what we would do. But we have to plan our finances based on retiring elsewhere so it is not relevant to our situation. That is one of the reasons the company provides a housing allowance.

1996 levels? Now I may be wrong here (and I am sure someone will tell me if I am) but in 1996 I understand that housing allowance was $5000 a month.

So..............what do you think housing allowance should be then.....1996 levels?

[CargoBoy]

I don't know what the rent amount should be. It all depends on the demand and supply of pilots. Its actually quite a simple formula. If the company requires X number of pilots, they will pay as much as needed to attract that number. If people leave, they will adjust it upwards to attract new comers and prevent more from leaving.

Of course I am not an advocate of that method of renumeration but thats the painful truth.

Time to wake up and smell the prata.

CargoBoy

[BANANASBANANAS]

And then we bring the discussion full circle and reply that "that is not what the Terms and Conditions state."

I am reminded of the adage that goes;

"If you think it is expensive to pay a pilot what he is worth....try paying him less than he is worth!"

[152wiseguy]

What does HDB actually mean it sounds like Cargoboy owns such a thing and is trying to rent it out :}

[parabellum]

In 1996 the rent allowance was 80% of rent up to a maximum rent of S$4000.00, so a maximum of $3,200.00 from the company and it had to be rent, no house purchase allowed with rental allowance, ALPA(S) made sure of that. There was a tax advantage to having SIA sign the rental agreement, making you the sub-tenant.

Cargo Boy - ask yourself this, you are accepted as a LHR based direct entry B744 captain by BA on a three to five year contract, renewable but only if you are still needed, otherwise off you go. Would you expect the usual and internationally accepted expatriate terms and conditions or would you accept local terms? No? - thought not.

[CargoBoy]

parabellum, locals can be invited to go if we are not needed. Its happened before. There is no such thing as Iron rice bowl in this day and age.

I would accept the best terms I can get. If I was not careful enough to go through the terms of the contract carefully and things don't turn in my favour, its my fault isn't it?

I have heard too many people whinge that they were promised this and that. If its not clearly stated in their contract, then its just that..talk.

The salary and benefits has increased at SIA Cargo over the pass 3 years.

The company has extended this increase in pay to expats that signed up for a lesser package 4 years ago. Legally, they are not binded to do so.

CargoBoy

[CargoBoy]

WiseGuy,

HDB stand for Housing Development Board. Its public housing and more than 80 percent of singaporeans live in them. The larger units are about 1200 Square feet and have 3 bed rooms.

It is almost unheard of for expats at SIA Cargo to rent these flats. I think they feel its beneath them to stay with the common folk.

CargoBoy

[BANANASBANANAS]

Question for Cargo Boy,

Expats are not entitled to rent HDB flats direct from HDB. They can only rent, after very specific criteria have been met, from an HDB flat owner - who is then not allowed to live in another HDB flat himself. Correct?

Personally, I think the whole housing allowance situation is an unnecessary emotive issue. I would suggest the allowance be replaced by a straightforward and identical increase to salary (not MVC, but salary) - which would still leave the expat Capt package comparable with a local Capt package and remove a "divide and rule" opportunity for management to exploit.

Or would that be too sensible?:ok:

[CargoBoy]

BANANASBANANAS,

Yes, HDB owners cannot own 2 flats. I am all for an attractive common package. I do however, think thats wishful thinking.

One Egg One Kosong,
CargoBoy

[parabellum]

"I would accept the best terms I can get. If I was not careful enough to go through the terms of the contract carefully and things don't turn in my favour, its my fault isn't it?"

Be honest, when was the last time you tried to 'negotiate', from an expat position, with SIA?

When I signed my initial contract, I had a very clear picture of what I thought was on the table, only when any matter came to a dispute did I realise that SIA have a very novel way of interpretating my contract. You are a bit of a Troll, CargoBoy, (**** stirrer is another phrase that comes to mind).

I spent over ten years as an expat B744 DEC with SIA and I know that some highly educated and very intelligent locals go out of their way to try and mis-represent the expatriate situation, are you just another one of those very boring people CargoBoy? All hung up because your national airline employs expats.? You and I both know that the day SIA can do without expats they will let them all go, without a second thought.

[BANANASBANANAS]

Well, I was trying to give him the benefit of the doubt but what you say is certainly very true. Whether it applies to Cargo Boy or not I don't know and don't really care.

[CargoBoy]

Oooh..**** stirrer? Troll? Name calling now are we?

I don't want to stoop to such immature levels. Can we debate objectively?

I never said we don't need expats. My point is if things are really so bad, why isn't there a mass exodus of expats?

You mentioned you flew 10 years for SIA, if things were so bad, why not leave after the first contract?

How is it that SIA still manages to attract so many expat pilots with such "rotten" terms?

I just find it hypocritical that so many give SIA a bad name but when its time for contract renewal, they sign their names on the dotted line.

CargoBoy

[millerscourt]

parabellum Although I am splitting hairs the maximum that SIA would pay towards rental was 80% of $4350 making them paying a maximum of $3480 per month.
My first rental on the East Coast was just that at $4350 per month with $870 being deducted from my salary. As you say there were favourable tax considerations with very little tax being paid as we sublet from SIA. Now the current $3000 rental is fully taxable being worth just $2400 per month approx. Mainline pilots on the old system have to move to the new system when contract is renewed
Interestingly the previous tenant that I took over from was paying $5500 per month back in '97 and about two/three years later as rents came down that same apartment would probably have cost only $2500/3000 per month whilst now probably nearer $6000 per month which clearly illustrates the problem facing those whose rental agreements are coming to an end.
Cargoboy There will always be some for whom joining SIA is still better than what is on offer in their own country. That does not make it a good deal necessarily. Constructions workers from Bangladesh and China still come here not because it is so great a deal but just better than the even worse conditions they face at home.
Also most Pilots here in SIA have burnt their bridges back home due to seniority considerations so can only consider DEC positions in other expat airlines and I would suggest for the majority it is not worth the hassle of another move with all that that entails. Those still under Bondage have no real choice but to stay.

[BANANASBANANAS]

I just find it hypocritical that so many give SIA a bad name but when its time for contract renewal, they sign their names on the dotted line.


If I might play devils advocate for 1 minute here. If "so many" give SIA such a bad name, why are "so many" offered a contract renewal?

Does that not involve major loss of face?

[portquartercv67]

Lots of banter about the housing allowance here and in the yahoo groups forum. The reference to housing allowance increase in my contract is extremely vauge, so I can't complain too much about the paltry increase. I knew going in that they held the cards on that issue. HOWEVER, I was told at my interview by RL and the advertisement in Flight International did say I would receive approximately S$7,000/month in flightpay/perdiem. Been here 20 months and have seen that only 1 time.

On a slightly unrelated note, can someone please explain to this simple expat mind why SIA employs expat captains in the first place? I mean every time I go to the STC for a sim, I see tons of guys walking around in blue pants, white shirts without insignia who I assume are all cadets. It seems as if SIA turns out pilots like a manhatten bagel shop. Where do these guys all go? Can the system not keep up with local pilot retirements and expansion? Do all these pilots not eventually end up as captains?

PQ

[CargoBoy]

If I might play devils advocate for 1 minute here. If "so many" give SIA such a bad name, why are "so many" offered a contract renewal?

Does that not involve major loss of face?


Because management do not know the characters that are bad mouthing them in places like this forum.

[CargoBoy]

Portquarter,

The number of pilotss that Singapore Flying College churns out cannot meet the growth figures of the airline. It recently has undergone expansion though.

One reason could be there are not enough aspiring pilots out there to fill the numbers.

One more reason is that the minimum age a Singaporean must be before he can join the airline is 26. Many people would have already embarked on some other career before 26 and thus would be resistant to change.

CargoBoy

[ArkPilot]

The bonuses must have been spent. I see we have returned to a pilot's favorite past time, complaining on website forums.

FYI, the predicted "exodus" from Singapore Cargo consisted of TWO pilots, one of which left to take a Chief Pilot's position at another airline.

- Can we all agree to get over the "$7,000 flight pay and allowances" ad.? I was never promised that amount in an interview nor was it included in my contract.

- The disappointing numbers I am hearing for the housing allowance increase won't cause me to look elsewhere. I like it here.

- Question for "Cargo Boy", I assume you are a citizen or PR of Singapore and a voting member of ALPA-S. What is the ALPA-S position on the housing allowance increase? Since the overwhelming majority (all but two) voting members of ALPA-S are F/O's, it would appear that any increased benefit for expat's would slow career progression. Not trying to cause an "us v. them" type discussion, I would sincerely appreciate your perspective of the issue.

- IMO, one reason Singapore cargo was created, if not the primary reason, was to exert downward pressure on main fleet pay and work rules. I don't see that ending any time soon.

For those who may be considering applying to Singapore Air Cargo when hiring resumes (second quarter 2008 is my bet, depending on movement from the main fleet), I would highly recommend it. However, it is NOT a commuting position. Don't try to make it such, you won't be happy. Otherwise, it is a great place to live and the people you work with are top notch. It is not perfect, but beauty is in the eye of the beholder, IMHO.

[BANANASBANANAS]

With one or two reservations I would have to agree with Ark.:ok:

[CargoBoy]

ArkPilot,

I do not know the Alpa-S position on Expat rental allowance. I also do not believe any increase in expats will slow local FO progression. SIA Cargo does not practice a seniority system. When we get our required hours and sectors, we will be begin command training (same for mainline). I believe if the situation then is an excess of expat captains, those that leave due to retirement will not be replaced by new expat captains. I don't forsee any expat "blocking" our upgrade path.

With the exception of a few foreign FO's on local contract, even the most senior local guy will be looking at 9-11 years before being eligible for command.

CargoBoy

[ArkPilot]

Cargo Boy,

Good point! I believe you are spot on concerning the local contract/cadet's progression to command.

Your comments also provide insight into the silence of ALPA-S regarding this and other matters. It's not that important to the voting members.:hmm:

[portquartercv67]

Kool-Aid is consumed and enjoyed most everywhere, even here in Singapore.

PQ

[ArkPilot]

PQ wrote,

"Kool-Aid is consumed and enjoyed most everywhere, even here in Singapore."

Could you please explain what comment prompted that response?
Enquiring minds and such.:confused:

[parabellum]

Millers Court said:
"parabellum Although I am splitting hairs the maximum that SIA would pay towards rental was 80% of $4350 making them paying a maximum of $3480 per month"

Either I was unlucky or you were lucky. My first rental in Singapore was S$4,300.00pm and I had to pay 100% of the extra $300.00, (1992).