When will Instructors get paid properly?

[TINTIN25]

Does everyone acctually believe with the pilot shortage instructors will start to get to paid reasonably? I am not meaning excessive pay (like tradesman) but enough to attract people to learn to fly and remain in G.A. When I looked at the award the other day and found out the starting wage is 31k or something around that figure. I was shocked! So the industry expects after forking out all that money pilots will want to sit in G.A! I think there will be a shift in thinking in the coming years or there will be a lot of planes sitting on the ground!

[vetflyer]

When will Instructors get paid properly?

..........er about 10 minutes after Hell freezes over......



:{

[VFE]

Got more chance of growing a bigger willy.

VFE.

[bunnywabbit]

even the perks are crap! Most people who want to fly are guys and not sweet smelling young ladies.

[portsharbourflyer]

Traditionally instructing has always paid badly, but I would say now there are opportunities out there to get salaried positions as a flight instructor.

I do believe Tollerton were offering a 12000 a year retainer with £20 an hour flight pay. Cambridge were offering 18000 a year salary. One or two schools in Scotland were offering salaried postions that were advertised in the flying magazines last month. These are still "low" salaries but it is better than the flight pay only terms that are commonly offered; these are survivable salaries for a year or two until you progress onto something better (airlines or multi/IR instructing).

If you search around in the UK you can find instructor positions with semi-respectable retainers now.

I only became a full time FI when offered a decent retainer, I could never have considered going full time on flight pay only. Remember no one is forcing you to accept FI jobs paying flight pay only, you have a choice, hold out for better terms and conditions.

[average bloke]

Why noy use your rating to teach a pig to fly. Not much chance of a good salary outside of that.

[Always Moving]

The salaries are a lot better than in 92 5 USD/h
Now you can get a job in most parts of the world since there is a shortage of FI.
There is places paying 24-30k USD a year plus perks.

This is as good as I have seen it.

[porridge]

Try instructing on Microlights - not the weight-shift thingy's, there are real aircraft as good as C150's, Tomahawks etc out there to fly. Some even have glass cockpits. Your don't even need a CPL a PPL will do and the pay is about £50 plus an hour. This is where the career instructor needs to migrate to, leave the hours-builders willing to work for peanuts on group A behind! Have fun and get paid well!

[gpn01]

Salary changes are a reflection of Demand vs Supply. So, salaries will increase if the demand for pilots increases by more than than the number available (unlikely due to technology reducing the human invovement in flying an aircraft plus the fact that there's stil plenty of people who find being a pilot to be a desirable career).

[VFE]

One thing is for certain - if this poor summer continues you'll be looking at the exact opposite: schools going under.

Sorry to be a doom merchant amongst the optimism but compare the hours flown last year at your school to this years. Have a stiff brandy in one hand when you do.

VFE.

[AlphaMale]

I do believe Tollerton were offering a 12000 a year retainer with £20 an hour flight pay. Cambridge were offering 18000 a year salary.

I'm lost?

I was under the impression FI's were on a very small pay with the way people talk about it on this forum. :bored:

I'm trying to put a time/budget plan together APP at EFT v 0-ATPL at OBA then do a FI and instruct here in the UK.

£12,000pa retainer = £836 per month / £193 per week

And then £20 per flying hour (understanding I'd probably not get paid for ground instruction).

How many hours could I clock per week/month in the Summer? And how many is possible during the winter? I was guessing 15hrs pw (£300) in the summer and possibly down to as little as 5hrs (£100) pw (or God forbid 'zero') in the winter.

Surley this could pay £7,800 + £2,600 from summer and winter hours respectively and then a retainer of £12,000 pa.

£22,400 ~ £17,000 pa after tax or almost £1,500 in your bank every month for doing something you love while logging a healthy amount of hours on the logbook.

Are we comparing this pay to airline pilots pay or the UK average? ... If my figures are correct I'll be on the next flight to the US to get it done asap. ;)

Thanks

Andrew

[Always Moving]

I did not know that you guys were talking about the UK only I was talking globally. (to each his own mentality)

If you fly less may be it is something wrong with the business, I might suggest.

[VFE]

No, when it comes to the UK it is down to the weather. We haven't had such a poor summer for over 10 years and it's impact is starting to be felt. Follow a poor summer with the usual poor winter and I think you'll find schools going under ergo no rise in requirements for more instructors. The FTN article this month surprised me in it's exaggeration of the instructor shortage issue to be perfectly honest. Much of the research seemed to come from hearsay, celebrities and probably, dare I say it - here! There were a few adverts from the usual crop of hours builder employers but nothing that really made me stand up and think "****e, things are getting very deseperate", more a case of making news for a minority target group sound more drastic than is really the case. Hardly unusual for any media body is it?

VFE.

[spernkey]

If it's money you want go do something that makes money. Even airline Captains don't make relatively BIG money anymore in real terms.
Even if all the schools put another £10 per hour onto the training and passed it all on to the instructor that would make the instructor another 4K per year or so. Problem i have seen is how exquisitely price sensitive the punters are. Truth is at even £10/hr more than the other lot down the road the punters are gone!!!(esp. the trial flight trade).
I really hope no-one here thinks the schools are coining it and exploiting the instructors who are getting paid in two ways.1. a bit of money and 2.experience to make them more employable.
There are two challenges for flying schools one is competing for the recreational pound from the punters and the other is delivering the training. What they need to do is pay the career instructors well enough to retain. I am afraid that even if they paid some of the transient instructors a billion pounds a day they would still be abandoned once Stelios/Branson et al discovered their talent! Why? because flying is VOCATIONAL. I think that brings me back to the original thread which is that flying is not about the money. If it was about money - how come a bloke i have just paid £2900 for 1 week taking photos in my 172 has gone to a turboprop as a first officer with a bond and less than £280 a week to live on after tax with an expensive re-location to boot? Answer of course is because he wants to!
It's never the money.

[Always Moving]

EXCUSE ME!
you pay me one way! MONEY!

SO I guess the miner is getting paid 2 ways also so now he knows how to brake rock and so on. When you work for a person either that person trains you and it is because he can not find a person already with that knowledge or hires a one that already knows how.

Are you going to tell me (and I heard this before) that the school is really doing the FI a favor.

And of course the student (you call them punters) are looking for the best value , and they should, and that is the beauty of our society or would you prefere a government regulated rates!

[spernkey]

Titter...titter...titter. Long may there be employers out there who exist to serve YOUR interests! You want the market forces to get the punters best value whilst simultaneously requiring market forces to be not a factor when employing transient hour builders -Mmmm.......:hmm:
The situation is like it is for a reason - over-regulation makes cofa light aircraft ops horribly top heavy to operate leaving no dosh to slosh. Some light aircraft are burning £40-50 an hour in (75% taxed) fuel. On the quiet there is a bit of money being earned at the light end for now! If the schools were all rich i would say action was needed - but they are just not - so there!

[VNA Lotus]

Hello,

I read the shortage of FI in UK.
I am french and it is becoming the same thing in France.
But here most of FI are free, I mean they are not paid like in UK.

I woud like to become an airline pilot, I passed my ATPL theory etc.

It would be a great idea for me to teach other students and fly to build hours.

But it is a problem where "the dog bites its tail", I mean FI is good job, but when I noticed the crap pay, I don't want to do this job! In fact, I can't.
Why ? Just because I must to pay my training, so my loan!
So FI course is not even a plan B for me.
I'm sure flight dispatcher is better remunerated... but... you don't fly... :ugh:

[bunnywabbit]

There is a shortage of instructors and if I have read correctly ( FTN ) we are going back to the old system where a PPL with an instructor rating can earn. Which is great for the flying schools and the dedicated PPLs who want to do it. However most of students are fairly middle aged and succesful in what they do. Which means they are prepared to instruct for free as it is a hobby. As I can see it this devalue the FIs pay even more!

[VFE]

Well one thing is for certain - a flying school will take someone they don't have to pay over someone they do! And you can forget the CAA or JAR standing up for the rights of CPL holders when it comes to financial issues. Perhaps those who will be most affected by any non-professional scabs coming in will be well out of the game by then? It is the dedicated career instructors at clubs I worry for when I think about it Bunny.

VFE.

[homeguard]

This description of anyone who wishes to instruct without being a CPL is appalling!
Only with the introduction of JAA did it become neccessary to hold a CPL to be paid when instructing. The so called 'scabs' were always paid and continue so under the 'grandfather rights'. I have no resentment of youngsters gaining experience while instructing and warmley wish them all the best in their airline careers and I am happy to assist them with work and encouragement. Indeed it is healthy in clubs for others to be inspired to achieve the same.
However the aspiring airline pilot must look after themselves and since christmas I have had three regular instructors leave to join the airlines at just a few days notice. We need stability in flying clubs that the dedicated FI, who can be paid, based on the PPL or hold a dedicated professional Instructor licence.
Working for free or not has little to do with it.

[G-KEST]

VFE said - "Perhaps those who will be most affected by any non-professional scabs coming in will be well out of the game by then?"

What a w****r. My word has been carefully chosen as I am incensed.

Prior to 1988 and the BCPL I estimate that 80% of FI's were PPL's. Then those with a current FI rating were presented with BCPL(R) without any further examination or flight test. Were these non-professional scabs who instantly became professional scabs?

They were not scabs at all. The training they gave over many decades to the student pilots in the UK was fine. Equally as good, if not better, than is the case today.

Both before and after the paper process of professionalisation they were paid for the work they did while moaning about the size of their remuneration. So nothing changes there.

Cheers,

Trapper 69
:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

[VFE]

Well that's got a few (old) backs up! Not my intention...

The "non-professional scab" term was intended for those who'll work for free - thus undercutting those with the passion and commitment to make flying their life and living - not anyone who has the desire to instruct thru grandfather rights.

Am I still a ******? ;)

VFE.

[homeguard]

Yes!
Get on with your own life and leave others to theirs. You will not get any more by denegrating others. Every one knows their worth and they don't need you to remind them.
If an instructor offers their time for nothing that is up to them, they do not need permission but when they do there are always strings attached, quite reasonably. All schools/clubs with the exception of a few particular set ups will wish to pay fees/wages to have, in return, a commitment from instructors.
The professional job of CFI and other full time and senior posts will be required just the same as will be the bulk of regular instructors.

As for the hour builders they will be needed too, once again as they always have been.

[VFE]

Well in that case: so are you sir!! http://www.pprune.org/forums/images/smilies/tongue.gif

VFE.

[G-KEST]

VFE,

Sorry mate you are outnumbered. Accept it and close this unsavoury aspect of an interesting thread.

Cheers,

Trapper 69
:ugh:

PS - I can recommend a masseuse to take care of any overworked muscles and ligaments in your arm..................!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

PPS - I will get my bike.

[crap pilot]

Although VFE put his point across in the wrong way i think that he may have a point. We have seen latley that instructors wages are starting to rise to an almost live-able rate and this is because that there is a shortage. In turn many people that i know are now willing to become flight instructors, as with the pay increase they are now able to eat and some can even afford bread to go with their beans. If PPLs start to become instructors, not only will the pay begin to fall again because others are willing to do the same job for free but the same people who were previously willing to become instructors wont because they simply can not afford to.

Having said that, I know many very experienced PPLs that would make fantastic instructors and I have learned a lot from flying with them. I just wish that they would be allowed to charge for the services.

[A Very Civil Pilot]

Many years back I used to instruct at a 'club'* (i.e with Presidents, Chairmen, Honourable Secretarys etc). Club rules said that elected committee members couldn't accept money for instruction.

So, after coming in to work to expect a fullish days flying (at I think £7.50 per flight hour!), I found that many of my flights were appropriated by the committee, thus saving the club money. I then had to wait, with no retainer, for any extra work to turn up.

I'm not saying it will happen with non paid non-CPL FIs, but it's a business environment.


*as opposed to a 'flying school'.

[windriver]

Q: When will Instructors get paid properly?

A: When the schools/clubs develop a different business model, sell more products to more people and bring in more money.

There is an enormous appetite for "aviation" amongst the general public, but only a small percentage of that potential will ever be realised through the sale of the "PPL Lesson Product."

What most schools/clubs do have in abundance though is a classroom, knowledge base and enthusiasm which can be developed into spin off activities to allow the public to engage in aviation on a regular basis even though they may never actually learn to fly.

My first "job" in aviation was as a PPL ground instructor and imagine my surprise when I was told on arrival at said club that the classes were to be held in a local hotel and the ads had placed been in the local paper in anticipation! ...

The half a dozen or so club students duly arrived ... but so did 20 more interested members of the public at a tenner a throw. (late seventies tenner) Cracking good sessions, plenty of money for the club and instructor and a steady flow new students who'd been motivated to join when they knew more. Air Law, Nav etc can be fun... and profitable.

I cite this as one example, but I really do have plenty more ideas along these lines....

Obviously the primary role of flying instructors should be flying training but as employees they should also be given the opportunity to make more money directly or indirectly through participating in or coordinating secondary activities.

There should be no such thing as a "non activity (flying) day."

(Before the anticpated abuse starts I don`t expect many to agree with me, although I would imagine there are organisations that are geared up to this sort of approach... and others that wouldn`t want the hassle perhaps?)

[G-KEST]

windriver,

Well you have one supporter. What a marvellous idea to attract those with a latent aviation interest. It worked then, I wonder if the same would work now? Worth trying I think.

Cheers,

Trapper 69
:ok:

[VFE]

We have seen latley that instructors wages are starting to rise to an almost live-able rate
Really? Tell me where.......

Nope, sorry for any offence caused folks - I can assure you this was not my intention. Of course, a certain amount of healthy controversy is always a good way of stimulating debate but my right arm is strong enough already (as G-KEST already intimated!) to require any more extra-curricular activities on the FI front!

Now then, EASA are working (and doing a good job IMHO) to sort out the poor (in places) standard of PPL instruction in a few isolated spots across the UK and I for one support them.

However, my gripe is that those who would make superb career instructors may be 'put off' the idea when those few experienced PPL'rs decide an FI rating is for them. I stand (as always) to be corrected but, in the good ole days, PPL holders with circa 200hrs became eligable to take the FIC, no?

Balance that with someone who, from the age of ten aspires to become an FI and then realises that wages are about £7.50/ flight hr (in the mid-80's AVeryCP?) then obviously much less than is already the presently low amount.

OK, forget 'scabs' and forget 'professional' terminology but we can see that the pointers indicate a trend towards the degradation of flight instruction purely on the basis that those who instruct under zero wages might not care as much as those whose livelihood rely upon their work.

"Discuss"

VFE.

[bogbeagle]

All schools/clubs with the exception of a few particular set ups will wish to pay fees/wages to have, in return, a commitment from instructors.

By and large, schools and clubs don't seek commitment from their instructors now. What makes you think that, when some people will work for free, the schools will insist on re-imbursing them? I can absolutely guarantee that, if I walked into a flying school tomorrow and stated that I would work for free, the owner of that school would not press money into my hand.

I would expect that most of the new PPL instructors will be low hours/low experience, looking for free flying to pad out their thin log-books. I don't believe that there is a pool of experienced philanthropists out there, keen to instruct every hour that God sends.

What's wrong with the term "scab"? Seems perfectly appropriate for someone who undermines my livelihood.

I can't understand why any current instructor would want to see the PPL-instructor introduced. The only benefits will accrue in the very short term and will solely be enjoyed by the owners of flying schools. Students and standards must suffer....why else was the old system abolished in favour of a requirement to hold a BCPL (as a minimum)?

As to calling people "w@@@ers"....well, that's the beauty of anonymous forums....they do make people brave.

[G-KEST]

bogbeagle said -

"I would expect that most of the new PPL instructors will be low hours/low experience, looking for free flying to pad out their thin log-books. I don't believe that there is a pool of experienced philanthropists out there, keen to instruct every hour that God sends."

I just might rephrase that a little -

I would expect that most of the new CPL/frozenATPL instructors are low hours/low experience, looking for any flying to pad out their thin log-books. I don't believe that there is a pool of experienced philanthropists out there, keen to instruct every hour that God sends.

Talking philanthropy I reckon the biggest philanthropists are those who invest an absolute fortune in order to gain a professional licence in the fervant hope that some airline will eventually hire them An airline that has gained a flight crew member without making any investment in the individuals training costs.

Its a funny old world.

Cheers,

Trapper 69
:mad::mad::mad::mad:

[crap pilot]

We have seen latley that instructors wages are starting to rise to an almost live-able rate

Really? Tell me where.......

Many places are now offering saleries (ive seen between £13K and 18K for an FI(R)) or good retainers. I personaly get £50 per day and anything worked over 3 hours in any one day gets me an extra £20per hour. Even with bad Wx its £300 for 6 days.
You dont have to work for peanuts.

[Deano777]

A lively debate, interesting.

Personally, I am an instructor, I have been for a few months. I did the FI rating as a back-up for the possibility that I would not land that elusive airline job. The funny thing is, I actually enjoy it alot, and I think I do a bloody good job (i.e. I put my all into it), my students certainly get value for money.
The issue has come where I have actually landed my 1st airline job after a few months (very fortunate), but the funny thing is I kinda don't want to leave the instructing world, I really really enjoy it, the only issue is the wages, what I get paid does not even cover my mortgage (by a long way), let alone leave me a lifestyle that is "marginal".
Next month I will be joining the airlines, but if the wages were good enough I may have chosen to have been a career instructor, progressing to CPL/IR instruction etc. But again the wages do not dictate that I can wait around long enough to have the relevant experience, this is a crying shame, I am 34 and was willing to instruct for life.

Now as far as the topic goes about PPLs instructing, I can only say that I don't really agree that it is a path we should go down. The problem is though is that it is a catch 22 situ. Right now there is such a shortage of instructors that the standards have to be lowering, but on the other hand there is a shortage because the wages are so poor the schools are not magnets for the career instructor, the advent of the PPL instructor will erode the wages even further. I also agree that you will only attract the PPLs with little or no experience thus again lowering the standards somewhat, and yes the low houred fATPL only has 200 odd hrs as well, but I do feel having been through the system that the knowledge gained during my ATPLs has helped me answer the most testing questions from the students, (in no way am I saying I have superior knowledge) the reason I could do this is because instructing has re-enforced my knowledge because I have had to learn the relevant subjects inside out.
Can the PPL instructor offer this objectiveness? I am not sure.

Also I am no Red Barron or Chuck Yeager, but the worst pilots I have had through the school are the ones who have had their PPLs a while and are doing their bi-annual instructoral flight. The standard I have seen is quite frankly nothing short of shocking.

[VFE]

PPL holders with circa 200hrs became eligable to take the FIC,

Was it about that figure Barry?

VFE.

[Mike Cross]

I stand (as always) to be corrected but, in the good ole days, PPL holders with circa 200hrs became eligable to take the FIC, no?

Well, I'm assuming you're an FI and as such would have a bit of a handle on JAR. However as you seem unsure I will correct you. It's bu@@er all to do with the "good ole days".

Fact:-
JAR–FCL 1.335 FI(A) – Pre-requisite requirements
(See Appendix 3 to JARFCL 1.240)
(See Appendix 1 to JARFCL 1.470)
Before being permitted to begin an approved course of training for a FI(A) rating an applicant shall have:
(a) at least a CPL(A) or completed at least 200 hours of flight time of which 150 hours as pilot-in-command if holding a PPL(A);

You do not require a CPL of higher in order to instruct for the PPL, a PPL/FI is fine.

You do need a CPL or higher in order to do Aerial Work. Currently exemptions exist to allow a PPL holder to carry out Aerial Work in certain circumstances. These include Glider Towing, Parachute Dropping and Microlight Instruction. Paid instruction is Aerial Work, unpaid instruction is not.

Under the present regime it is customary for an aspiring ATPL to do his professional exams and get a (woefully underpaid) job as an FI to build his hours to a level where he gets a chance at the all-important airline interview. While he's doing this his ratings lapse and require renewal and he's paying interest on the big loan, which is making him poorer.

How's this for an alternative?

ANO gets amended to permit paid instruction by a PPL/FI.

Airline candidate gets his PPL, 200 Hrs and does his FI course.
Builds his hours as an FI on a Class 2 medical rather than a Class 1 (less expense, a Class 1 is NOT required to instruct)

When he feels ready he goes off and does his professional training and presents himself for interview with fresh ratings and his head full of all the things he might get asked. A friend of mine is now flying Citations having carried the interest on circa 100k for a couple of years. This route would have made his life a heck of a lot easier.

From a safety perspective:-
The CPL requirement for paid instruction was introduced in the 1970's, one assumes with the intention of improving standards, however it has (IMHO) not made a blind bit of difference. The fact that instruction by a PPL/FI has equal standing under JAR as that by a CPL/FI or ATPL/FI bears out this view.

What has made a difference is changes in the syllabus and the exam regime for PPL candidates and also changes in the requirements for obtaining and maintaining an FI rating.

[A Very Civil Pilot]

..... and then realises that wages are about £7.50/ flight hr (in the mid-80's AVeryCP?)...


Unfortunately it was the mid/late 90s! :sad:

[VFE]

*Best Jeremy Paxman drawl*

Yeeeeeeeeers, I fearded you'd say that, AVeryCP. :(

Look guys, we all have valid points and you sure as **** is brown ain't gonna stop me from looking down my nose at those arseholes who offer up their services for free at the FTO were I work, especially when I'm struggling (and I do f-ing well mean STRUGGLING!) to pay my bills having taken this on as a proper vocation in my life.

Yes, it is a jolly jape being up amongst those clouds, I feel sure there are those out there who could do it better than myself, yes I am to blame for taking "the plunge" (many dare not) and yes, I should probably pull my finger out and get an airline job but yanno what? I like instructing and don't think it beyond the realms of reason to make those who wish to get to my (so veeeeery veeeeeery lowly) position in the aviation sphere study for it.
You learn f--k all on a PPL course (I should know - I teach it!), much less when you start flying on your Jack Jones. I should know, I did a PPL and then decided to 'go commercial' later.

Those who disagree know this too but care to ignore the obvious. We all know that those who have held PPL's for many years are the most dangerous - had one pull the mixture to ICO in the circuit last week in fact, on a checkout.... and then witnessed the stall warner blaring out from base leg onwards as they grapled with the controls..... a regular and respected member of the club too,,,,,,,, but I digress....

Being eligible to be an instructor of flight (IMVHO) means - undertaking a professional course of study, going thru the motions, deciding that teaching is the vocation for you and becoming a member of a professional body after putting your money where your gob is. £6K on a PPL is pittance when you consider what my family and I have been thru. MY CFI has grandfather rights and knows f--k all about the weather to be honest. I keep shtum but it narks me guys.... as you can probably tell.

And if you don't like that? Well you can kiss my arse.

VFE.

[Mike Cross]

And if you don't like that? Well you can kiss my arse.

A generous offer but you'll forgive me if I pass.

The issue that is causing you so much grief is the same issue that affects many popular jobs. If you want a job as a ski instructor, a flotilla sailing skipper, a dive instructor, parachuting, gliding, white-water rafting etc etc you will find that you get plenty of responsibility but not much pay. That unfortunately is the name of the game. If the activity is popular people are willing to do it for not much money.

If you add in the hour builders who are doing it as a means to an airline job rather than as a vocation and the professional pilots doing it between jobs or because they enjoy flying light aircraft in their spare time then it makes lfe very difficult for someone who is a committed professional career instructor. This isn't a new phenomenon, it's been like that for years and would certainly have been like that when you got qualified.

[windriver]

Part timers, enthusiasts and hours builders can all add to the Total Club/School Product.

Given this ridiculous trend for permanent staff instructors to be paid by the flying hour I tend to agree with VFE about instructors prospects.

If these people are happy to fly for nothing (and why not) it shouldn`t mean that the students shouldn`t not continue to pay a professional rate for professional services and the proceeds used to bolster staff salaries.

Often the part timers can take on some of the flying duties releasing the instructors for classroom work, long briefings, syllabus development, networking (drumming up trade) in the community etc etc.

[G-KEST]

VFE queried -
Quote:
PPL holders with circa 200hrs became eligable to take the FIC,
Was it about that figure Barry?
VFE.

Off the cuff and from memory I think it was even less.

Back in 1960 when I did my own FIC I think it was 150 hours in command and the FIC was of 20 hours including up to 3 hours mutual with an indeterminate time required to reach the standard for the ground elements. The AFI priviledges included night, I/F and aerobatics so there was no further course other than for multi-engine.

What a difference to todays JAR-FCL rigmarole.

I was then paying £1.75 an hour for our group owned Tiger Moth and half my course was with the late FltLt Z W Kaye, our group CFI, and the other half with the immortal Stan Ward at Ipswich. There was no charge from either FIC instructor since they were both PPL holders while having enormous experience back to WW2. The total cost was £35.00 plus the FIE's fee of £5.00 and a further £5.00 to GAPAN to issue my assistant instructors certificate after which the then govenment department issued my rating FOC. Total cost £45.00. As I was then a junior surveyor/estimator in the building industry earning around £10.00 per week this was equivalent to just over a months salary.

Today's costs to gain a FI(R) - I can only boggle at..............!!!!!!!! My sympathies to those who have bitten the bullet financially.

The PPL instructor, paid for the task in a flying club environment, continued up to the BCPL introduction in 1988.

Remember, virtually all the gliding instrucors in the UK do so on a voluntary basis without any remuneration. Why not the same for a PPL in a flying club?

Many microlight instructors are paid for their work yet they only have a PPL(D) or an NPPL(microlights) with a microlight instructor rating. Why not the same for a PPL in a flying club?

Lets have a level playing field here. Fair do's as my antipodean friends might say.

Cheers,

Trapper 69
:ugh::ugh::ugh:

[Sleeve Wing]

G-KEST.
[Quote} "Back in 1960 when I did my own FIC I think it was 150 hours in command and the FIC was of 20 hours including up to 3 hours mutual " [unquote]

Yep, you're right, mate. Same for me ( a little later I might add!) with David "Goddo" Campbell. RIP.when he was at LAC.
The 200 hours was the requirement then for a CPL.
BTW, Hector asked for a quick trip in the Chippie to OK me for aeros.

Rgds, Sleeve.:ok:

[FlyingGasMain]

Just did a few sums. The average UK wage in April 2006 was £23,200. After tax and NI that means net take home pay of £1461 a month. I did an FI course recently which cost £5300. So, basically, it now costs about 3.5 months salary. That's a fair old chunk of your earnings compared to the 60s.

[BIGJOCK]

Does anybody know the hourly rate for FI helicopter these days ?

[AirKiller47]

...flight instructors should unionize and force the industry to recognize the importance of our contribution to the aviation industry. They can get their sorry arses into these small planes with some of these hopeless pilot wannabees and put their lives on the line for a change. And the salary is not the issue it is the way the schools treat their instructors with what they are paying us. And the first thing that goes wrong its our arses and careers that are on the line...its time to unite!:mad: