applying for ATCO position with NATS

[onwell]

basically im almost 18 and doing my a levels including physics n maths n i really want to attend the NATS college instead of uni....NOW i live in leicester and as the college is bournemouth i need to kno things like ....cost of living, accomodation, getting around etc.
i believe the starting salary is 10k now is this enough to get me through or extra funds will be mendetory.
basically i jus need to know what options are open to me as i will be 18 goin on 19 with not much experience of living alone.....PLZ HELP!!!

[BDiONU]

Please try a search of the forums, try a search term like 'starting college' and you'll find a host of similar questions to the ones you're asking.

BD

[wiccan]

onwell,
You "should" be advised that a "grasp" of the English Language both spoken and Written is a help, in applying for a position in ATC. or any other job that comes to mind.....Oh Boldocks, that was in the past....NOW, just about anybody with a Grade z GCSE can claim to be "Educated"....is eligable for this Post....:ugh:
bb

[RVR600]

Was 'eligable' a deliberate spelling mistake wiccan :)

[coolbeans]

Who gives a rats ass, its an internet forum not a job application:ugh:

Sides written english is over rated, controllers handwriting and grammar is famously crap, second only to doctors in my experience

[2 sheds]

I give a rat's arse. I think of all the tax that I - and you, CB - have paid into the education system, only to have applicants for the same occupation as yours and mine appear to be illiterate buffoons.

[coolbeans]

Damn

Never thought of it like that :ooh:

Kids nowadays

Sorry back on topic I never went to the college in the south so I have nothing useful to add to this debate, sorry :O

[onwell]

i actually consider myself well learned (thats if an A* in gcse eng. lang and lit. is anything to go by).
as coolbeans rightly said its not a job application surely you cant be calling me an "illiterate buffoon" for that.:=

[Gonzo]

its not a job applicationCorrect.

However, it doesn't take Sherlock Holmes' deductive reasoning to realise that serious topics are discussed here (at least occasionally!), and that a well written post would be more suitable. This isn't quite 'Myspace' yet.

It is an extremely good habit to develop; people are always going to make judgements about you based on what you write and say. For example, I'd imagine that many of my colleagues would have been more likely to help you and respond to your requests with more alacrity had you used that A* to good effect.

By the way, there is some very good material on other threads here in the ATC forum where others in your position have asked for guidance and advice, perhaps you might search for them.

[coolbeans]

This isn't quite 'Myspace' yet.

I don't know, it gets pretty damn close sometimes :)

I've been thinking about the cost of living issue, I reckon a £10000 salary should be enough to see you through the college, as long as your frugalish, I survived on a *lot* less at uni, well I'll be honest I pissed it up the wall with a lot less at Uni.

Find yourself some cheap digs, get a cheap car, don't go crazy on the socializing and I'm sure you'll be fine. My money saving tip for tonight is to remember its *always* cheaper to cook your own meals than get ready meals or take away, plus chicks dig it when you can cook for yourself, shows self-sufficiency or some such.

[BDiONU]

i actually consider myself well learned (thats if an A* in gcse eng. lang and lit. is anything to go by).
You have an A in English but appear unable to capitalise sentences or spell correctly. I don't know if thats more a reflection on you or on the education system. :rolleyes:

BD

[coolbeans]

Now come on guys, its an internet forum :hmm:

I'm sure if he'd known the response some typo's and poor grammar would have received he would have taken a little more care, it certainly doesn't disqualify him from a future career in ATC.

Certainly no need to be casting aspersions on the poor lads education.

[PPRuNe Radar]

Mobile phone speak is generally not welcome on PPRuNe but poor speeling (sic) and gramatically incorrect posts are not the end of the world. If you find them too difficult to read, then just move on.

The profession is not seeking to recruit English professors. Being erudite and having the ability to express yourself in the written word perfectly have no bearing on whether you will be a good controller or not.

Apart from being able to speak clearly and concisely on the radio and telephone, being able to write numbers and letters, specialist terms, and heiroglyphs on flight progress strips, and/or inputting data correctly in to electronic devices, there is nothing else you need to be able to physically do in terms of language or written communication as an operational controller.

Of course, if you wish to be non operational or a manager, then the ability to produce reams of turgid flowery language and grammar to provide everyone with enough documentation to denude the Amazon rain forest is a necessity. Perfectly spelled gramatically correct gobbledygook and yuckspeak will be your forte and you will soon be able to write meaningless specifications, requirements, and ass covering literature, without a second thought. :E

I bet some of those who moan about spelling also rue the day that most of the young whippersnappers stopped coming to work in suits, shirts and ties, and shiny polished shoes :} God knows what they think about the blokes as well ;)

[BDiONU]

Of course, if you wish to be non operational or a manager, then the ability to produce reams of turgid flowery language and grammar to provide everyone with enough documentation to denude the Amazon rain forest is a necessity. Perfectly spelled gramatically correct gobbledygook and yuckspeak will be your forte and you will soon be able to write meaningless specifications, requirements, and ass covering literature, without a second thought. :E
Come come! You're adopting a silo mentality which is doing nothing for the synergy of this thread. You need to push the envelope and start some serious blue sky thinking outside of the box. NATS managers have to be able to innovate front-end methodologies so as to empower cross-platform deliverables and maximize mission critical schemas. Its not a paradigm shift you know ;)

BD

Here's a guide on how to write good:
1. Always avoid alliteration.
2. Prepositions are not words to end sentences with.
3. Avoid clichés like the plague -- they're old hat.
4. Employ the vernacular.
5. Eschew ampersands & abbreviations, etc.
6. Parenthetical remarks (however relevant) are unnecessary.
7. Parenthentical words however must be enclosed in commas.
8. It is wrong to ever split an infinitive.
9. Contractions aren't necessary.
10. Do not use a foreign word when there is an adequate English quid pro quo.
11. One should never generalize.
12. Eliminate quotations. As Ralph Waldo Emerson once said, "I hate quotations. Tell me what you know."
13. Comparisons are as bad as clichés.
14. Don't be redundant; don't use more words than necessary; it's highly superfluous.
15. It behooves you to avoid archaic expressions.
16. Avoid archaeic spellings too.
17. Understatement is always best.
18. Exaggeration is a billion times worse than understatement.
19. One word- sentences? Eliminate. Always!
20. Analogies in writing are like feathers on a snake.
21. The passive voice should not be used.
22. Go around the barn at high noon to avoid colloquialisms.
23. Take the bull by the hand and avoid mixed metaphors -- even if a mixed metaphor sings, it should be derailed.
24. Who needs rhetorical questions?
25. Don't use commas, that, are not, necessary.
26. Do not use hyperbole; not one in a million can do it effectively.
27. Never use a big word where a diminutive alternative would suffice.
28. Subject and verb always has to agree.
29. Be more or less specific.
30. Placing a comma between subject and predicate, is not correct.
31. Use youre spell chekker to avoid mispelling and to catch typograhpical errers.
32. Don't repeat yourself, or say again what you have said before.
33. Don't be redundant.
34. Use the apostrophe in it's proper place and omit it when its not needed.
35. Don't never use no double negatives.
36. Poofread carefully to see if you any words out.
37. Hopefully, you will use words correctly, irregardless of how others use them.
38. Eschew obfuscation.
39. No sentence fragments.
40. Don't indulge in sesquipedalian lexicological constructions.
41. A writer must not shift your point of view.
42. Don't overuse exclamation marks!!!
43. Place pronouns as close as possible, especially in long sentences, as of 10 or more words, to their antecedents.
44. Writing carefully, dangling participles must be avoided.
45. If any word is improper at the end of a sentence, a linking verb is.
46. Avoid trendy locutions that sound flaky.
47. Everyone should be careful to use a singular pronoun with singular nouns in their writing.
48. Always pick on the correct idiom.
49. The adverb always follows the verb.
50. If you reread your work, you can find on rereading a great deal of repetition can be by rereading and editing.
51. And always be sure to finish what

[PPRuNe Radar]

:}

Touché mon brave

ooops, just broke Rule 10. :p

[BAND4ALL]

onwell ignore these W~*+^£s good luck:D

[coolbeans]

Come come! You're adopting a silo mentality which is doing nothing for the synergy of this thread. You need to push the envelope and start some serious blue sky thinking outside of the box. NATS managers have to be able to innovate front-end methodologies so as to empower cross-platform deliverables and maximize mission critical schemas. Its not a paradigm shift you know

:) Thanks thats the best laugh I've had today :ok:

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

<<Of course, if you wish to be non operational or a manager, then the ability to produce reams of turgid flowery language and grammar to provide everyone with enough documentation to denude the Amazon rain forest is a necessity. Perfectly spelled gramatically correct gobbledygook and yuckspeak will be your forte and you will soon be able to write meaningless specifications, requirements, and ass covering literature, without a second thought. >>

Hmmmm... says a great deal for our esteemed moderator.

I am concerend that somebody who hopes to become an ATCO doesn't appreciate that sentences should begin with a capital letter...... but that's life nowadays. Standards have gone down the tip.

[BDiONU]

I forgot number 52 until HD reminded me ;)

52. When pontificating about the spelling and grammar of others be careful to check for smelling pistakes, otherwise you look a bit of a prat. ;)

BD

[wiccan]

RVR600,
Sorry, but I am using an unfamiliar laptop,[I am on my hols] and I left my reading spectacles at home.
That the "glass" of red wine which I consumed has/had nothing to do with my spleeing on any and all replies...
bb

[PPRuNe Radar]

Well HD - having done both the management and the non op bits at some point in my life with NATS, I am qualified to speak about what we produce in those areas of the 'business', at least in terms of paperwork production. Ask any current shop floor ATCO and you'll find that we are now far removed from the old civil service days which probably survived on forms (for the use of) in triplicate and everyone needing to be able to write perfectly as part of the entrance exam. Todays generation now have the ethos of speaking as they find, without the encumberance of having to know one's place, as happened in the old days. 'Challenge' is the new Chief Exec's word for it :ok:

I still stand by the fact that good spelling and grammar does not dictate whether someone can be a good ATCO or not. If that's part of your criteria, so be it. In which case perhaps we need to look at the writing and grammar skills of some of our crusty old folks (like me) who fill out training reports on the new generations. People in glass houses and all that ;)

Standards haven't necessarily gone down the tip ... they've simply changed and the importance of some things from the 'good old days' are no longer seen as important, whilst other skills honed by todays ATCOs could simply not be done by previous generations.

It's evolution.

[BDiONU]

but that's life nowadays.


http://www.lunch-break.co.uk/images/MotivationLife.gif

BD

[wiccan]

I still stand by the fact that good spelling and grammar does not dictate whether someone can be a good ATCO or not.
So if you recieved a C.V. from the originator of this thread, written as posted, what would be you [re]action[s]s?
bb

[PPRuNe Radar]

I'd assess the CV against the criteria required for the post. If they meet that, they pass the paper sift. It's not rocket science :hmm: