London Information

[beerdrinker]

Some questions for the London Information Controllers.

1. Has the FIR desk at Swanwick been updated compared with the old FIR desk at West Drayton?

The reason I ask is because of the 1177 with Mode C squawk that we are asked to select when asking for Flight Information Service from London Information.

2. Does the London Information Controller now have a radar screen in front of him?
3. If so, do you label us electronically when you see our 1177 squawk in the appropriate position?
4. If we have Mode S can you see our identification?

5. Or do you have a whole load of targets all squawking the same – 1177 with no way of identifying each individual target?

[BDiONU]

Quick answer as I'm sure a real expert will answer:

1) How do you mean updated?

2) As a trial there is a screen close by which is heavily 'protected' so that it cannot be used to provide a radar service.

3) No

4) No Mode S capability in the Swanwick AC Ops room.

5) Correct.

BD

[Flaps ten please]

I believe the 1177 squawk is to identify traffic to area sector controllers as being worked by the FIR. i.e. they know who you are talking to.

[beerdrinker]

By updated I mean an improvement on othe old two man desk with a copy of the Half Mill topo on the wall in front of the controllers.

[BDiONU]

By updated I mean an improvement on othe old two man desk with a copy of the Half Mill topo on the wall in front of the controllers.
OIC! Well it utilises the swanwick workstations and information functionality, phone panels and AGA comms. There is room for 3, even 4 at a real push (functionality provides for it). There are maps on the wall behind.

BD

[SwanFIS]

The FIS suite at Swanwick is basically the same as the one we had at West Drayton. A couple of years ago it was modified to facilitate minor ergonomic improvements and the instillation of eight monitors to display information, but apart from that no great difference. It has not been radically changed because.......it works! If it ain't broke don't fix it!

The much derided half mil map with pins in is our primary reference point. It may look crude but we have not found anything to improve on it. As an information source it is invaluable. It would help if some of the pilots we talk to bought one :rolleyes:

Area FIS from us is a non-radar service. The 1177 code tells radar controllers throughout the UK who the agency is working that return, allowing them to get in touch with us quickly if it is causing them concern. Once again it works, and works a darn sight better that even I had predicted.

My last telephone call yesterday evening was from the East Mids controller who said "Your traffic is going to enter my airspace on its present track. do you want to put him over to me?" A potential incident sorted out calmly before an infringement happened. Result - happy FISO, happy controller and happy pilot, a situation repeated many many times each week.

[beerdrinker]

BDiONU and SwanFIS,

Many thanks for the replies.

One point though, why did I spend £3000 when quote" No Mode S capability in the Swanwick AC Ops room."

[London Mil]

Mode S in the legacy unit at West Drayton though. :D

[BDiONU]

One point though, why did I spend £3000 when quote" No Mode S capability in the Swanwick AC Ops room."
No one in NATS was twisting your arm ;) TC currently based at West Drayton (but moving to Swanwick in November) have mode S because it provides them with some very useful information, particularly when aircraft are holding. The radar system extracts some of the mode S data for display but does not make use of all of the information which mode S sends.
It was felt that the investment for AC at Swanwick was not as needed at that time as it was for TC. Now AC (indeed the whole of NATS NERL) are seeking to fully implement mode S but the bandwidth for system builds is rather full. Additionally there are some difficulties with mode S (callsigns in particular) which need ironing out.

London Mil I really detest that term 'legacy' when what people are actually refering to is the current operational system. With the exception of the voice comms and the information systems (and much better looking radar displays) the wiggly amps for the TC system (Node L radar, NAS for FDP, etc) will be the same at Swanwick as they are at West Drayton.

BD

[London Mil]

BD, I also detest the word, that's why I used it! I'll remember the parenthesis next time.

Looking forward to the voice comms......... :O

[BDiONU]

BD, I also detest the word, that's why I used it! I'll remember the parenthesis next time.
It really really winds me up when people who should know better use it Ggggrr! ;)
Looking forward to the voice comms......... :O
Uuummm :O

BD

[A I]

Looking forward to the voice comms.........


Aren't we all!! :)

[Minesapint]

I thought that 1177 converted to "FIS", also coming shortly to a place called Scotland!!!

[atcomarkingtime]

Why does it have to convert to FIS??? We on Anglia Radar just see 1177 and not FIS!! Ok...we are based in Aberdeen but thats what we see!

[5milesbaby]

It converts to FIS as Swanwick because it can - it's really that simple!!

[45 before POL]

1177 convertsat swanwick, under the same system as 7700 does, and the system recognises the code. Same effectively coud be done at any unit that has a system to convert the code .Press a few buttons. Hey presto

[Minesapint]

When you get a link to CCDS or CCDS-R you will see FIS, or whatever its set to be, Scottish is getting the same deal soon.