Greek Islands Flying

[stevieb1]

I'm in Crete in late July, and am hiring an Arrow for three days to do a little island hopping; or at the very least heading over to Santorini for a couple of nights.

As a recently qualified PPL, does anyone have any nuggets of advice or experience they could pass on? Is it even possible to get Avgas on the islands?

By the way, the complex diff training has been done over here, and I should have another 20 hours or so experience by the time I go. Thats of course if it ever stops raining!

Any and all advice is appreciated

Cheers

[Dunc]

Who are you hiring from?

Is it Cretian Eagle? If so ask the CFI (Jason) all you want as he is mostly english and was a QFI over here (Elstree and Cranfield) for many years. Good chap (I have to say that I was his best man two months ago). Nice place but lots of water and lots of wind.

[Dave Gittins]

Cretan Eagle were very good to me when I hired a 152 from George about 3 years ago, but the avgas at Heraklion came out of a big can we had to hump up a step lafdder onto the wing.

:ok:

[A and C]

The Greek islands are a lot of fun but a few problems that you might encounter are making contact with ATC when at lower levels as high ground will blank out the signal.

The (airline) briefing for most Greek islands includes warnings about lackluster ATC, short runways (not your problem!) high ground, wind shear & birds.

The one thing that you must get your head around is reporting your position by RAD/DIS from a nearby VOR as this is the only way to give ATC a picture of what is going on as most of the time there is no radar.

Check the avalability of fuel on a daily basis and if you can get a BP fuel card it will speed things along as most of the bowser drivers don't like cash payment (if they get it wrong it comes out of their pay).

If you have problems communicating with ATC get an Airliner to relay for you, most of us are happy to help if the workload permits.

[Kyprianos Biris]

Here are some tips for Greece in General:
Technical info.
AOPA Hellas INFOS (http://www.aopa.gr/en/infosdetails.asp?NEWS_ID=1)
and some general description:
AOPA Hellas INFOS (http://www.aopa.gr/en/infosdetails.asp?NEWS_ID=8)
Check in there the fuel availability. Not all airports have AVGAS. Also if you fly
to small remote islands keep in mind they have hours of operation and you should check the NOTAM's beforehand.

Keep in Mind Sitia LGST on your East is perhaps Greece's most GA friendly airport and has plenty of AVGAS, much cheaper than Iraklion LGIR.
For Santorini just call them up 1~2 days ahead to let them know you're coming. Even though there is no notam for this (this summer) they like to know the VFR inbound forecast for apron parking space as well. Santorini has no AVGAS.

Mikonos near by (Santorini) to the North with AVGAS is reachable but keep in mind it has limited parking for GA and although it is accessible for few hours stay it may be difficult to request overnight parking especially in a weekend.
Iraklion & Mikonos have fuel provided by EKO and that is why it is expensive (2.4~2.7 /Lt) Sitia is by AirBP (2.2/Lt). Refuelers prefer CASH and if you don't have change and give them big bill's you have to wait for the change.

Yes in some areas when flying low terrain may restrict VHF contact but they know you're there. Don't get anxious is they don't respond, just call a bit later. If they need to check up on you they communicate with MIL radar who can see you all over the country all the time. If YOU need to contact MIL radar they do provide Civilian R.I.S. (workload permitting) initial call up callsign is "TUGRIT" and frequency 129.80 with a basic position report & aircraft callsign. The station in charge of your sector will respond with it's own callsign. Officially as VFR you communicate with "Athens Information" 130,925 or 119,75.

If you want a nice island hopping to small relaxed airports (no avgas) fly north to Paros LGPA, Naxos LGNX, return via Astypalaia LGPL and Santorini LGSR.
This route keeps you in central Aegean sea, not too far from Iraklion LGIR and I assume with the Arrow's fuel range without need to refuel. Remember to check opening hours. https://www.notams.faa.gov/

Pictures (to inspire you!) :cool:

Sitia LGST
Sitia LGST airport (http://hellasga.com/gallery/v/kyp/lgst)
Try "loukoumades" (tiny doughnuts in honey & cinnamon) at the eastern coffee shops downtown past the square; you won't regret it.

Santorini LGSR
Santorini LGSR (http://hellasga.com/gallery/v/kyp/lgsr)
Greece's most romantic views. Visit Oia to the North incl. the fish taverns at base of the cliffs, Fira town is too busy.

Paros LGPA
Paros LGPA (http://hellasga.com/gallery/v/kyp/lgpa)
Visit Naousa to the north.

Naxos LGNX
Naxos LGNX (http://hellasga.com/gallery/v/kyp/lgnx)
Checkout the beaches just SW of the airport and the villages up high in the mountain on the Eastern side.

Mikonos LGMK
Mikonos LGMK (http://hellasga.com/gallery/v/kyp/lgmk)
Too much to see, beaches, downtown, they're all excellent but too crowded July & August.

Astypalaia LGPL
Photos: - Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net (http://www.airliners.net/open.file/0112720/M/)
Have a coffee up in the main town overlooking down the cliffs

Milos LGML
Milos LGML (http://hellasga.com/gallery/v/kyp/lgml)
Lots of nice places in Milos, can't recommend only one !

In Greece VFR is easy, you'll have no trouble. ATC usually want you BELOW the IFR traffic levels and to be there before reaching their airport zone.
Just be careful at Iraklion because it is VERY busy at times and be precise at your initial position report and estimates. ATC do their best to squeeze you in between heavy IFR traffic when you get to the traffic pattern and will keep you well below IFR all of the other times. They have approach radar and they will monitor you on radar all of the time.

Over sea where you have terrain near by and wind coming from its direction expect turbulence. Winds in Aegean during summer are usually N-NW directions 10~40 kts.

Pass my Regards to George Kelarakis (the boss) if you meet him up in Cretan Eagle. He tried hard to get this Arrow.

Enjoy ;)

[stickandrudderman]

If I was StevieB1 I'd be saying "Thanks very much for a very informative post", but I'm not so I won't!;)

[IO540]

Excellent post from Kyprianos, as always.

I am going that way in Sept - see ya for a beer at LGSA? :)

[Kyprianos Biris]

Excellent post from Kyprianos, as always.

I am going that way in Sept - see ya for a beer at LGSA?

Thanks IO ;)
I'll do my best to make it, too early for promises yet !

[scooter boy]

Kyprianos,
Great post - very informative. You should write a "Greek Islands Pilot's Guide", I am sure I would not be alone in buying a copy.

The pictures you posted have certainly whetted my appetite for visiting the islands - great to know who has AVGAS and who doesn't.

I will be at Preveza in my Mooney in August and may take in Santorini as a day trip.

Well done,
SB

[stevieb1]

Very helpful guys, particularly Kyprianos. The photos have fired me up for it even more.

George used to be an instructor at my club, Stapleford; and comes highly recommended. I'll pass on your regards.

Thanks again!

[AfricanEagle]

Got back yesterday after a week of Greek island hopping :), a wonderful experience. All the info Kyprianos supplied me was correct and very useful.

Route was from Italy to Corfu (avgas) - Megara (avgas - written ppr required) - Naxos (delightful - no fuel) - Santorini (no fuel) - Chania Crete (avagas - written ppr required) - Kithira (no fuel) - Zankinthos (no fuel).

We wanted to stop at Mykonos (which has fuel) but there was no parking place for a night stopover (we were 5 aircraft).

Flying was easy and straight forward, the VFR routes easy to follow, atc good and ground service friendly. Always best to phone ahead to let them know you are coming and ask the best time to arrive. There are peak hours when all the charters arrive (one of our aircraft was put on hold for 45 minutes).

Beware of engine temperatures, winds can be strong near the airports (tumbling off the hot mountains) and the haze when flying over water can require total concentration on the artificial horizon.

[AC-DC]

Are there VFR maps for the Greek Islands?

Thanks

[Kyprianos Biris]

Para. #20 of:
http://www.aopa.gr/en/infosdetails.asp?NEWS_ID=1

[AC-DC]

Thank you.

AC DC

[IO540]

Excellent post Kyp - thank you.

[Martin Staiger]

we, a group of four German aircraft visited the greek islands in June with stopovers in corfu, Syros, Samos, and flew back via Bulgaria and Hungary to Germany.
Infos by Kyp were VERY helpful. We liked Syros especially, could visit Mykonos from there by ship.

[Jon Biveroni]

Dear Kyprianos
On April 14, 2007 we landed happy and safe in Switzerland after a wonderful trip to Greece! We want to express our gratitude for the valuable help, which you provided to us!
Our itinerary:
5.4.2007: LSZF - Pula, Croatia; 6.4: Pula - Dubrovnik - Kerkira; 7.4: Kerkira - Mykonos (where we staid at hotel Poseidon; the owner is also a pilot and helped us a lot); 8.4: Mykonos - Samos (shear winds); 9.-10.4: Visit a friend in Fourni (for degustation of excellent wine); 11.4: Samos - Mykonos; 12.4: Mykonos - Kerkira; 13.4: Kerkira - Pescara (Italy); 14.4: Pescara - Bergamo - LSZF.
We were very lucky to have excellent weather all the time - and this in April!
Your information, Kyprianos, was very helpful. It was the base for our planning. We used the Jeppesen Europe Low Altitude Enroute Charts for voice reporting (5 digit voice call names) and navigation. Also the TPC maps were useful as backup to the GPS. South of Athens we followed the VFR routes and were allowed to go direct POROS - KEA on 3'000 ft, as you suggested. All traffic guides, airport authorities, and airport staff was always very kind and helpful!
Not so easy was the task to combine things like opening hours of airports, availability of AVGAS, alternate airport, distances without AVGAS and wind / weather.
Again thank you very much, and kind regards, Jon

[Davidt]

Just returned from a trip to Cyprus, for the Greek legs we used the ONC and Jepp low level IR charts + Navbox.

Route Brindisi-Iraklion-Paphos-Sitia-Corfu-Figari

Greek atc very helpful, be on your toes with position reporting and next way point estimates. We mostly followed under the airways at highest available semi-circular levels.

We missed getting into Sitia out bound by 10 minutes due departure delays at Brindisi had to divert to Iraklion, where fuel was e2.60/litre payable in cash only (later learnt that one of the girls in the tower was getting married so they shut early, we got some of the left over cakes on the way back, loverly people) check the notams! Take care our GPS data base had some of the Iraklion VRP's off set about 15 miles NE.

For Cyprus written permission of the Dept of Civil Aviation is required and parking was Cy£12 for each 12 hours or part , very expensive, they will also con you into taking handling at £200 and a bus at £50, neither are necessary.

Big thanks to Kip and to Agustinos at Griffon Aviation Paphos for much help.

[IO540]

You should write up that trip, DavidT.

That way, pilots who are scared of even crossing the Channel will see it's not at all hard to do these trips, provided one knows the planning steps to follow. And they are very enjoyable.

Put it on a website, details and all. Don't sell it to a magazine because they make you water it down to a bland story with pictures...

[Kyprianos Biris]

IO540 do you mean something like this (http://www.peter2000.co.uk/aviation/) ? :E

[UKTiger]

We completed a tour in September in a Grumman AA5B Tiger, arriving at Thessalonica from Belgrade then going Lesvos, Skyros, Ikaros and Corfu before flying on to Losinj in Croatia.Kyprianos of Greek AOPA was as ever a fount of knowldege and help.

We arrived with a shakey start, Thessalonica having failed to clock that we were on an IFR not VFR flight plan. At the time we were about to begin letting down in the mountains with internittent VMC! Having sorted out that, other confusion reigned with last minute swops of runway (we weren't the only ones, the big boys were wondering what was going on too). Eventually got down frtom a VOR approach and circle to land. We had followed advice and asked for Olympus handling but got Swissport who cahrged us a wacking 153 euro weekend handling charge and Avgas at 2.60E a litre! That was our last bad experience in Greece thereafter we had to argue but were succesful in getting the reduced fees applying to club aircraft (ours is group owned).
Lesvos was fine. Strong turbulence off the mountains and landed in whacking crosswind. Greeted by very attractive female 'follow me' driver struggling with holding down rather inappropriate skirt in billowing wind. She told me on the basis of I know not what that it was 'too dangerous to fly today'. I wanted to tell her it was 'too dangerous to wear a skirt today' but I am too much of a gentleman.Lovely island.
As per Kyprianos' advice we had applied for permission to land at the military Skyros a week in advance., but notwithstanding, the necessary authorisation did not arrive. We were bailed out by the airport director at Lesvos who very kindly sorted things out on the phone within a couple of hours. Skyros was also hassle free. An unspolit inexpensive non-touristy island. Really loved it. Have good accommodation recommendation if needed.
Plan was then to go to Corfu via Ikaros for fuel (on the mainland North of Athens). Gem of an airport. Lovely 1000 metres approx concrete runway. Nice club house, helpful caretaker but no internet access for briefing.Unfortunately heavy storms appeared south of Corfu (the first rain for 3 months there apparently) so we had to overnight which meant a 60 Kilometre taxi ride to the nearest metropolis.
Trip to Corfu. We went lowish VFR to avoid the possibility of CBs still around resulting in problematic radio contact at times. Would recommend IFR across the mountains as easier and shorter. Corfu well used to handling light aircraft. All in all a great experience.
Steve

[Kyprianos Biris]

As of yesterday that we got the first (for our standards :p ) real autumn weather in Greece, here's a recent write up by Peter on this summer's trip of his to Greece worth reading while it rains cats and dogs outside.

Trip to Kithira - September 2011 (http://www.peter2000.co.uk/aviation/kithira/)

:ok:

[aa5flyer]

We came with 3 Grummans from Ukraine and Istanbull to cross Greece direction Croatia and Germany. Before you go to Greece ckeck 1. Availability of AVGAS and parking space. 2. NOTAM. No VFR charts. Have the IFR low altitude chart and Jeppesen trip kit. Kyprianos: In July there was NO AVGAS in Mikonos! Tower told us, AVGAS is not expected this year anymore. We landed in Samos. Good operation but parking space very limited. MEGARA very fine. For refueling (and leave) only no landing request necessary. Corfu okay, we had however long waiting times. Unfriendly not service minded bevaviour of the Athens TMA on the VFR routings. Very friendly people on the ground. Allover - nothing at all against flying in Greece. Just do it and be burocratically more prepared than in the rest of the EU. Each aircraft will help the country a bit more to recover. If you are in AOPA, ground stay is much cheaper. Full report (German) in Pilot und Flugzeug Airwork Press GmbH | Pilot und Flugzeug | Webstore (http://www.pilotundflugzeug.de/servlet/use/Store.class?front&tn=sp_archiv&issueId=2011-10).

[IO540]

Because Greece does not have an online AIP, and because nobody reads the printed one they sell (except certain handling agents, and ATC personnel, who then give you duff info out of it :) ) the principal fountain of information on what really goes on are the Notams.

I can't say what LGMK notamed when you went there but today the notams include this

FUEL 100LL NOT AVAILABLE.

In the Notams you also get gems like this

AERODROME HOURS OF SERVICE AS FOLLOWS: FROM 20/09/2011 TILL 29/10/2011 A.FM 20/09 TILL 27/09 EVERY DAY 0300-1715 B.FM 28/09 TILL 12/10 EVERY DAY 0545-1715 C.FM 13/10 TILL 29/10 EVERY DAY 0545-0915 1345-1715 NOTES: 1.ON 20/09 TUE 0300-2030 2.ON 25/09 SUN 0300-2030.

:)

But better always to phone ahead. Greek airport staff tends to speak reasonable English - unlike Italy, Spain or even France.

Greece will never be a Switzerland or Germany (just as well) but my feeling is that it is improving on the airport services front.